I just played Quake 2

[Perkel]

I tried it in VR and it is fucking fantastic. Game is datet as shit but level design shines through.

 

[Maggot]

Not a fan of HD model replacements but those look better than the older HD models people usually use. KMQuake2's fancy effects are really ugly in general.

Spoiler

Some of the tech demo stuff for Quake 2 is neat though.

 

[Ash]

I should probably play this game again. Classic level design. Classic soundtrack.

 

[dunno lah]

Here comes the DraQ

 

[Ash]

He likes Skyrim. Just ignore.

 

[Maggot]

Some guy is trying to archive Quake 2's history before it all gets lost to time. There's a bit of QuakeWorld/NetQuake stuff but its mostly random Quake 2 articles from dead sites. https://dondeq2.wordpress.com/
There's some good gems here.

Spoiler

https://www.scribd.com/document/137689223/Art-of-Quake-2
And you also get random shit like this
https://dondeq2.wordpress.com/2017/...-the-various-bridges-found-in-the-q2-wf-maps/

 

[Ash]

I gave DraQ a fair shot by checking out his arguments, it has been over a decade since I've played this game anyways. He raises a fair point. The AI is indeed pretty retarded. The rocket launcher females hiss loudly and stand still, pause for like three seconds and then fire 1 rocket. The "trespasser" NPC can't hit you for shit unless you extensively stand still or he manages to corner you, which is rare. The grenade multi-launcher cyborg strogg misses often (which is probably for the best, to be fair). Tanks are extremely retarded. It's mostly only hitscan attacks that offer some degree of major threat ...yet it's not all that different to vanilla Doom AI at all. Where the difference is primarily is in numbers. In Doom you fight hordes of enemies, where this passiveness makes somewhat more sense, even if I prefer the vastly improved, diverse and aggressive AI of Brutal Doom. In Quake 2 it's like never more than 60 per level and 6 per room, or something like that.
In fact, I remember Quake 2 on the N64 being somewhat more hardcore (regardless of control input -- it's quite different. New enemies, entirely different levels/campaign etc).

This legitimate problem aside Q2 still has interesting visuals, classic level design, a cool soundtrack and is generally enjoyable, but I always thought design-wise, Quake really wasn't very innovative or significant at all. The engine was a milestone ofc, but the design was a bit uninspired. Compare to Duke Nukem 3D for instance, where the themes and levels of each episode varies wildly, a minor inventory was introduced, interesting mechanics like shrinking enemies and Duke himself, there's a high degree of interactivity with the environment and even minor plot and scripted events that doesn't impede on the gameplay. Though Duke had issues with too much hitscanning and not so easy to see projectiles, but that's for another thread.
I suppose you could consider the Quake games the first tech demo FPS and a sign of things to come. I always preferred...well pretty much every other classic shooter of that era including numerous on consoles, but it's still a fun game and better than mindless modern shooter x.

 

[Glop_dweller]

I once played Quake for thirteen hours straight. I quite literally started at seven in the evening, and quit at eight... in the morning; I hadn't noticed tha passing of the time, and thought it odd that the Sun was rising. But I found that I could not play Quake 2 due to simulator sickness. I have yet to play it for more than ten minutes into the first map.

 

[Maggot]

I once played Quake for thirteen hours straight. I quite literally started at seven in the evening, and quit at eight... in the morning; I hadn't noticed tha passing of the time, and thought it odd that the Sun was rising. But I found that I could not play Quake 2 due to simulator sickness. I have yet to play it for more than ten minutes into the first map.

Have you ever considered increasing the FOV? Q2 is all about MP anyways.

 

[Awor Szurkrarz]

I once played Quake for thirteen hours straight. I quite literally started at seven in the evening, and quit at eight... in the morning; I hadn't noticed tha passing of the time, and thought it odd that the Sun was rising. But I found that I could not play Quake 2 due to simulator sickness. I have yet to play it for more than ten minutes into the first map.

Whoa, didn't know it's a thing with 3D games. Had it with Doom and Strife, though. It completely stopped for me when FPS games went 3D.

 

[Glop_dweller]

I had that problem with the original 'Rise of the Triad'. Also had it with Battlefield 1942. It begins as a mild headache—which you can keep playing with, if it's a great game... but it keeps getting worse, until you have to quit or get ill; and it doesn't immediately go away for quitting the game.

 

[Awor Szurkrarz]

I had that problem with the original 'Rise of the Triad'. Also had it with Battlefield 1942. It begins as a mild headache—which you can keep playing with, if it's a great game... but it keeps getting worse, until you have to quit or get ill; and it doesn't immediately go away for quitting the game.

Oh, never heard of this before D: . I thought you were talking about nausea from FPS games D: .

 

[Glop_dweller]

Oh, never heard of this before D: . I thought you were talking about nausea from FPS games D: .

Those are FPS games, and that is the nausea from them; over time it becomes physically painful—and eventually would cause vomiting on top of the headache. It makes you want to sleep to get rid of it.

 

[octavius]

Removing head bobbing, if possible, may help. Surely helped for me with Thief.

 

[Jazz_]

^ You ain't missing much, Quake 2 sp campaign sucks. The gameplay and the enemies are...boring, and the art assets/color palette/overall aesthetic are just hideous, it's a far cry from the first game.

 

[Ash]

Just revisited Quake 1 and Quake 2 back to back. Quick summary and comparison:

Weapons: Q2. In pretty much every way. Well...with a couple of exceptions.
Challenge: Q1 (AI, level design, resource distribution, everything is somewhat better than Q2).
Level Design: Draw. Q1 levels are perhaps a little more tight, gameplay-centric and enjoyable, but Q2's is still great, and of course got quite ambitious with the hub structure/openness and greater level of detail.
Soundtrack: Q2. Sorry but it's just so fucking badass.
Art Direction: Draw. Q2 is of course more technically impressive, but on a subjective level they're both up my alley.

Which is the better game? Probably Q1 because it's true, the AI in Q2 is flawed. Namely, Beserkers are just pitiful enemies. Iron Maidens far too slow, easy to manipulate, predict and avoid. Same for Tanks. Circlestrafe always remaining behind them and they can't do shit. It's also often far too easy to manipulate AI into meleeing and then just backpeddling, over and over. OTOH you have Icarus, Gladiator and the Gunner which are competent enough enemies. The biggest issue with Q2 I found however was the Power Shield. Did you know there is a hidden difficulty mode in Q2 called "Hard+" that can only be activated via console command? This was how I played the game and it was providing a decent enough challenge early on, but then came the power shield. Even with frequent hyperblaster usage the power shield grants you near invincibility and the game throws plenty of cells at you for it to not ever really run out as long as you don't spam the BFG (which ain't that great anyway. Hyperblaster more than does the job).

Both were a lot of fun and I'd happily still recommend them both, just consider playing Q2 on the hidden "Hard+ Mode" (allegedly quickens enemy attacks times/frequency) because even with that on it gets a bit easy later on. Q1 has slightly more substance (tighter gameplay), but Q2 has slightly more style (namely the weapons and soundtrack, and technical improvements over Q1). Don't listen to the naysayers though. Q2 is in no way a bad game. It's good, even, just not meeting its potential, and a little declined in the solid classic FPS formula, yet it's incredibly easy to overlook these flaws when you look at the state of the modern market. My respect for the design of both games, while not very innovative at all compared to the likes of Duke 3D, shot up a little afterwards. Just so much fun to be had with good old classic combat and level design.

I also replayed Half-Life immediately after...was a little less good than I remember. Lots of nice variety in set pieces, platforming, puzzles etc, but not so enjoyable on replays as you've seen all the (good) set piece splendour before. Combat is also a little boring too. So, so many hitscan enemies. Still way better than HL2 though. And Xen is a perfectly fitting finale. Xen haters can STFU.

 

[Gentle Player]

I went on a classic FPS binge about two years ago and completely agree with most of DraQ's comments on Quake II (though I found the railgun very satisfying to use). I'm not much good at FPS - Quake I on Hard was very challenging for me, whilst Q2 was utterly trivial. It surprised me just how paltry iconic enemies like the Tanks were. Funnily enough, the Q2 expansions were much harder, but for all the wrong reasons. I remember in one of them there were annoying, tiny little turrets hidden in obscure little corners on the ceiling, which would blast the player with lethal rockets whilst he was preoccupied with other enemies - challenging but not fun or well designed. Conversely, the Q1 expansions were much easier, thanks to overpowered weapons (laser gun in first expansion) and alternate firing modes for the weapons (second expansion) which were not only powerful but used their own ammo type, so ammo for the best weapons was always in abundance.

Also agree with Ash on Xen. Never saw what the fuss was about; the platforming sections were only a minor part of those levels, and it's not as if that style of gameplay was suddenly introduced in Xen - it made sporadic appearances throughout the game.

 

[Ash]

Sporadic? the platforming in HL is damn near non-stop. Each chapter has it, sometimes in abundance. Probably the most platforming-heavy of all classic FPS, not that there's anything wrong with that. Plaforming was a staple of the FPS in the 90s, a core part of what made it so great (e.g levels with verticality), and it needs to come back.
The actual real issue with HL platforming I found was the inertia/deceleration time along with the simplistic binary nature of WASD (it's either run at full speed or no speed unfortunately, though walk key can help). So full speed with like 1 second of deceleration time makes for some annoying platforming on occassion that isn't present in other classic FPS due to faster deceleration. Walk key can help at times, but it's just not ideal.
Console pads certainly are more suited to platforming gameplay than M+K.

 

[Maggot]

Learn how to take advantage of air control my dude. Quake/HL physics are perfect.

 

[Ash]

...not quite. Quake physics are. HL's you slide around for about 1 second/1.5 feet each time you stop moving due to slow deceleration. For reference, in Quake it's half that if not less. I also dislike how long it takes to enter the crouching position (slow transition).

Anyhow, I went ahead and played through Quake 2: the Reckoning expansion pack as I've never played it before. People often whine that it just reskins enemies, but often overlooked is it also improves the AI of a couple common enemies (Enforcer example: no pre-arming animation, just goes straight ahead and fires). The challenge overall was much improved over vanilla quake 2. The level design was also solid. Some aspects of the pack were low quality though, felt like I was playing a good yet notably flawed mod as a result. The re-skinned enemies and the three poorly implemented new weapons in particular. Overall it's perhaps Q2 at its finest regardless because of the much-needed challenge increase.

 

[Nathaniel3W]

I remember playing through Quake 2. I don't think I play those games the way the devs intended. You're supposed to use your best weapons, pick up the powerups, and go on a rampage and have fun, right? I played like it was a survival horror game. I sneak around, usually use my weakest weapons so I can save my big guns for emergencies, collect powerups and hoard them until the bosses, then become invulnerable and deal quad damage. I think it would be more fun to run around, big guns blazing, but I don't know if I even can play like that.

What were the poorly implemented weapons? I don't remember any.

As for soundtracks, I still remember Quake 1. It was by Nine Inch Nails, and the game CD was also a music CD. To play the game with a soundtrack, you had to leave the CD in the drive. You could also pop the CD into your regular CD player, which I did on more than one occasion.

Did anyone else play the original Weapons Factory mod for Quake 2? I was the king of that game. I hated it when they added stupid stuff to the mod, like toasters that you could throw in the water. A water infiltration into the enemy base was a totally legitimate strategy until every passerby started tossing toasters into the moat, instakilling everyone in it. Oh, and people originally placed lasers perpendicular across hallways as a passive defense. I invented the door trap, where you place the laser pointing directly at a door, and anyone who opens the door gets a facefull of laser beam.

 

[Ash]

I remember playing through Quake 2. I don't think I play those games the way the devs intended. You're supposed to use your best weapons, pick up the powerups, and go on a rampage and have fun, right? I played like it was a survival horror game. I sneak around, usually use my weakest weapons so I can save my big guns for emergencies, collect powerups and hoard them until the bosses, then become invulnerable and deal quad damage. I think it would be more fun to run around, big guns blazing, but I don't know if I even can play like that.

You can and you should. The game is indeed designed around it. Ammo conservation tactics are good and all, but the game gives you plenty enough ammo to not have to resort to overdoing it with weak weapons. The blaster for example, you shouldn't really need to use that past the first level, except maybe to shoot switches (though even that isn't really neccessary - Q2 gives you a bit *too much* ammo). Furthermore when running, most hitscan enemies can't hit you. If you're a good strafer, you'll be hit less with this playstyle than a survival horror style one. It's all about movement about the environment, retaining speed , as well as using cover when it is smart to.

What were the poorly implemented weapons? I don't remember any.

In the Reckoning expansion pack.

Spoiler

If you tried that same playstyle in this expansion pack you'll probably have trouble, as it is somewhat harder and enemy placement/level design by far favors running and gunning. Run and gun doesn't mean some mindless rampage btw. You've still got to play smart, but also more pure skillful.

 

[Cat]

^ You ain't missing much, Quake 2 sp campaign sucks. The gameplay and the enemies are...boring, and the art assets/color palette/overall aesthetic are just hideous, it's a far cry from the first game.

I had the N64 version. It had its own levels and they were actually great.

 

[Ash]

^ You ain't missing much, Quake 2 sp campaign sucks. The gameplay and the enemies are...boring, and the art assets/color palette/overall aesthetic are just hideous, it's a far cry from the first game.

I had the N64 version. It had its own levels and they were actually great.

Both versions are pretty decent. Heck even the PS1 version has its merit despite being the least desirable of the three. The shittyness of Q2 is way, way overstated by some here, especially in the modern age of decline. To address the game's legitimate flaws (AI/Power shield), play Quake 2:The Reckoning expansion pack. I had a ton of fun with Q1 and Q2, one of my gaming highlights of the year. Man the 90s were great for gaming.

 

[nodar]

Quake 2 music and level design beat those of Quake 1 any day. That sort of streamlined Hexenish design with Quake 1 art direction would have been glorious. Quake 2 weapons are also more satisfying to use. Which is not to say that Quake 1 doesnt have its own draws, but it really was just Doom in fully 3D engine in the end. Quake 2 was where the series found its own thing.