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Improving Skyrim / Recommended Mods thread (Mostly about Requiem)

a cut of domestic sheep prime

Guest
On the other hand, tanking arrows with your face is pretty good gameplay. Taking care not to get hit is metagaming munchkin bullshit. True roleplaying consists of pausing the game midcombat and eat an instant healing potion.
True roleplaying consists of hiding behind a rock and casting fireball spells with your fighter - or else staring at a loading screen.

Raising a shield should block arrows most of the time, heavy armor should negate some of them. Going up against a lot of arrows? Grab a shield. It's called tactics. But when the arrows are unstoppable railguns, tactics go out the window and so does fun.
One question, why did you even install it in the first place? Vanilla already has what you want.
Nope. Vanilla has ZERO challenge. Requiem has STUPID challenge. SkyRe has SENSIBLE challenge. See the difference?
 

a cut of domestic sheep prime

Guest
I didn't know that it doesn't affect dragons at that point. Dragon mod fixed this. Also, I was in a low level area (I think, that or it was scaled down because I was low level idk). Higher level areas proved more challenging - but not insta-kill archer challenging or gibbed by a single fire spell challenging. Bottom-line: I haven't been using cheese tactics to avoid staring at a loading screen and can actually play the game the way I want to. Oh, and potions are more useful in SkyRe as I'm not dead before I can use them...
 
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pakoito

Arcane
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Messages
3,147
My experience in Requiem as a HA battlemage was cowering behind a shield while my health was chipped away by blocked arrows. If an arrow went outside the shield hitbox it meant instant death. Other than that the mod was awesome, but needlessly savescummingnish. Your lvl1 arrows are as deadly as theirs, so it was just a railgun game and picking up and counting arrows afterwards. Not my idea of a challeging game.

PS: Denote the Dark Souls avatar, 300 hours in Monster Hunter, et caetera.
 

Gord

Arcane
Joined
Feb 16, 2011
Messages
7,049
If it wasn't for the latest versions requiring Dragonborn I would have probably continued using SkyRe.
Ultimately the two mods probably have more in common than they are different, but SkyRe seemed more sensible as far as difficulty goes, even though that often meant easier.
Although there have been a few places (mostly in the early game) that had me reloading several times to get through as well- esp. Ice Mages can be hard.

Well, once you get used to it, Requiem can be quite fun, but I still think that some aspects need improvement, even if Stockholm syndrom prevents some Codexers from admitting it...
:troll:
 
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Heresiarch

Prophet
Joined
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Messages
1,451
My experience in Requiem as a HA battlemage was cowering behind a shield while my health was chipped away by blocked arrows. If an arrow went outside the shield hitbox it meant instant death. Other than that the mod was awesome, but needlessly savescummingnish. Your lvl1 arrows are as deadly as theirs, so it was just a railgun game and picking up and counting arrows afterwards. Not my idea of a challeging game.

PS: Denote the Dark Souls avatar, 300 hours in Monster Hunter, et caetera.

Another Dark Souls fan + literally a couple thousands of hours in Monster Hunter gamer here. Not completely relevant but a basic idea: I'm also one of the league which considers Gothic 1 & 2 combat to be extremely shitty. I think both SkyRe and Requiem are not my cup of tea. I could write a whole article about how and why Requiem doesn't fit for my taste, but the points would be moot because it's exactly as to play PS:T as you're looking for a TOEE experience and then complain there are too much dialogue and too shitty combat.
 

set

Arcane
Joined
Oct 21, 2013
Messages
942
Arrow damage is distance based.

Yeah, I already said that three or four times. No one seems to notice though. They'd rather focus on how arrows hurt you when you're within spitting distance of the archer. Which is a severe detriment to proper roleplaying. My dual wielding, ligh armored magicphobe character has no means of defense whatsoever, but that doesn't mean he should get hurt. That is not awesome!

But if you're a hardcore melee character within spitting distance of an archer you will take significant impact damage and it's pretty much unavoidable[...]

Nope. Archers have bows, not machineguns. You have long intervals to reposition yourself while he's getting another arrow ready. If you use that interval to dash at him from afar, he'll be ready when you are close to him and rightfully shove the arrow into your mouth. And then there are the many ranged enemies will rather pull a melee weapon if you get close to them, making it even easier.

The ending of the words is ALMSIVI GITGUDNUB.

Talk about hyperbole. I didn't say my character shouldn't get hurt, I just think I shouldn't die instantly in one hit. I think it's unreasonable to ask players to never get hit by ranged weapons if they choose to dual wield or utilize a level of armor above cloth but below plate.

I'm not even fighting a wall of archers. I'm fighting. One. One. One. One is not a wall of archers. Two, I am not running at anybody, I am skirting like a rabbit, running, diving behind a tree, then running again while the AI wastes arrows at things it can't hit. Three, the archers in Requiem are using machineguns. In the time it takes to notch another deadly arrow you have barely enough time to sprint over to them, nevermind draw your weapon(s) (running with your weapon drawn incurs a huge movement speed penalty) and swing at them. If you are a hair too slow you willl die instantly.

Meanwhile, you take very little arrow damage from far away if you are a happy little pointy-eared mage in a scarecrow's guise.

I get that you're trolling me at this point, but my point is simple - Requiem would be 99% better without this kind of balancing. The melee characters are fine. Hell, I don't even care that in some instances, as a light armor user, I can be OHKO'd by 2h bandits. That's fine, because they're melee weapons. They are slow, predictable and have low range. Archers on the other hand, can OHKO you with unavoidable arrows at mid range. Melee characters that don't use magic have no real counterplay against a group of clustered archers either, other than to run away and try sneaking up on them again later, or get thicker armor I guess, maybe grind fifteen more levels then come back. I guess that soudns kind of hardcore, if you define hardcore as 'jRPG balance of the early 90's'.

Ouch! That arrow hit me in the head! Good thing I was far enough away for it to only go partially into my brain!
How about:

"Ouch! That arrow got stuck in my leather armour, but will still leave a bruise."
"Ouch! That arrow got through, but thankfully didn't have the momentum to go between the ribs. Still hurts like fuck."
"Gaah! I have an arrow in my lunGURGLEGURGLEGLORP!"
?

In Requiem you are forced to play one class: self-deceiving metamunchkin.
Beats reusable human pincushion.

Honestly, what tactics you *would* like to see in a solo game where you can face a bunch of archers as a guy with just a big sword and fur skirt?

Not OHKO's. That's literally all I want. Christ, you think any RPG that has instant-death enemies is well-designed? It's a cheap way of making the game artificially difficult, all it really does is punish people who want to use melee weapons exclusively and reduce the number of viable combat specializations. An arrow taking 50% of my life is plenty. That means I have to at least isolate groups of archers before killing them in close combat - there's at least some skill there.
 

Gord

Arcane
Joined
Feb 16, 2011
Messages
7,049
Not OHKO's. That's literally all I want. Christ, you think any RPG that has instant-death enemies is well-designed? It's a cheap way of making the game artificially difficult, all it really does is punish people who want to use melee weapons exclusively and reduce the number of viable combat specializations. An arrow taking 50% of my life is plenty. That means I have to at least isolate groups of archers before killing them in close combat - there's at least some skill there.

This.
For some reason though, that doesn't get into people's brains. There is a middle-ground between human pincushion and 1-hit-kills, and I think that it would be better balance than the current approach.
 
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If you people just used the time invested into fabricating excuses for your suckiness to GIT GUD instead, your problems would go away.

No sympathy whatsoever for people who can't even pay attention to one archer. If my naked elf can survive encounters with them (close distance too, there are short range spells), then so should everyone else.
 

Heresiarch

Prophet
Joined
Mar 8, 2008
Messages
1,451
I'm looking at perk overhaul mods. My thoughts:

"Vanilla perks suck!!!"
"SkyRe perks change too much and depend on each other and may imbalance my combat mod, suck!!!"
"ACE perks change way too much stuff, wth are stances??? And enchantment tweak suck too, suck!!!"
"Requiem is not modular, suck!!!"
"All these mods mess up my Blalanced Magic mod. Perhaps just play vanilla perks, but they suck!!!"

Lesson learned: Skyrim sucks
 

Eyeball

Arcane
Joined
Sep 3, 2010
Messages
2,541
Trying to replay Requiem now as a destruction-zapping high elf. My lightning/fire sparks damage is pitiful, I cannot kill a single wolf in single combat without having to stab it with my offhand sword and no fucking way I can take on even a single bandit.

Any tips for surviving early battles? I don't think I can even equip stronger spells.
 
Joined
Jan 7, 2007
Messages
3,181
ITT:

SkyRe: Lub me, plox! I hardcore just liek yuo!
Requiem: No. :obviously:
SkyRe: Baka! :cry:

OTOH, we're playing a generic kiddy fantasy popamole masturbation aid, not sure either of us gets to parade around looking smug, regardless of Requiem being clearly superior in every way.
 

set

Arcane
Joined
Oct 21, 2013
Messages
942
If you people just used the time invested into fabricating excuses for your suckiness to GIT GUD instead, your problems would go away.

No sympathy whatsoever for people who can't even pay attention to one archer. If my naked elf can survive encounters with them (close distance too, there are short range spells), then so should everyone else.

Provide some video proof of you standing next to an archer naked, getting hit, and not dying instantly.

If my time weren't so precious I'd set up a situation where I quick save right in front of an archer and record for 10 minutes the game constantly reloading while I am killed instantaneously.

And yes, yes, Skyrim is shit. Everyone knows that (or should know it) on this board. I'm only playing it because I've exhausted everything else at this point. Requiem almost makes the game's combat fair, it's kind of sad the creator is retarded enough to fuck it up.
 

a cut of domestic sheep prime

Guest
If my time weren't so precious I'd set up a situation where I quick save right in front of an archer and record for 10 minutes the game constantly reloading while I am killed instantaneously.
Haha. Had that happen when I quicksaved as a necromancer was casting a fireball at me. No way to avoid it and the potions I had made no difference. Just had to time pressing the escape button so I could escape the reload cycle.
 

DraQ

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Chrząszczyżewoszyce, powiat Łękołody
I'm not even fighting a wall of archers. I'm fighting. One. One. One. One is not a wall of archers.
Wait, you can't avoid getting hit by *one* archer?

As a lightly armoured character you should be able to run circles around them.

Hell, I don't even care that in some instances, as a light armor user, I can be OHKO'd by 2h bandits. That's fine, because they're melee weapons. They are slow, predictable and have low range. Archers on the other hand, can OHKO you with unavoidable arrows at mid range.
Except bows are slow to draw and arrows don't home in on target. If you aren't standing still or running in straight line they are almost doomed to miss as long as you don't get into point blank range before they release.
Actually my own experience was completely opposite to yours - arrows are scary but they are fairly easy to avoid (they still make a good deterrent against doing stupid shit), while melee attacks just kill you dead.
Except you *can* effectively block, counter, interrupt or dodge melee attacks as well so instead of bitching I just practiced my melee skills and unlearned some habits that were getting me killed.

Not OHKO's. That's literally all I want. Christ, you think any RPG that has instant-death enemies is well-designed? It's a cheap way of making the game artificially difficult
Only in games where you can't do anything about instakills.

Not really an issue with game that's controlled like an FPS - in regular FPS games one hit killing attacks are commonplace and no one bitches about them.

all it really does is punish people who want to use melee weapons exclusively and reduce the number of viable combat specializations.
Except it does not.

Lightly armoured melee builds will outpace and outflurry pretty much everything they encounter and do a good job dodging arrows provided they don't engage in lengthy frontal charges.

They can be also easily spiced up with some stealth, ranged combat or even magic IF you want that.

You can also get a follower compatible with your playstyle, either complementing it (for example ranged support, offensive magic or summons if you want to charge in unpincushioned) or lending a hand (two melee combatants side by side are about ten times more effective than one in Requiem) - unless you're a compulsive sneak, followers are pretty much essential for success in Requiem - and when you get access to Thu'um you will gain a potent equalizer - Fus in the face is a great way to break concentration of someone about to give you third nostril.

Finally, get a habit of not dual-wielding against archers - bashing is useful, especially if they have better material bows or if you set bows to unbreakable.

An arrow taking 50% of my life is plenty.
No, because it means that an archer you're running at will need to draw, aim and release twice - if they can't, they are meat.

Also no, because *you* will need twice as much arrows and time to kill enemies, nerfing archer builds right into uselessness due to lack of stopping power. Unlike bandits *you* won't have a whole bunch of friends with bows to help kill off a band of enemies charging your ass.
Did you just say anything about reducing number of viable combat specializations?
 

Nathair

Educated
Joined
Jan 12, 2012
Messages
55
No, it isn't always easy to avoid an archer you've not seen yet in some of the dungeons. Not the most annoying enemy damage for me mind. Stuff like the invisible entities, poison visuals and those fun stun locks from ice spells annoyed me a bit more. Sure, if you can get resistances plausibly easily but....
(Must be presuming enchantment I suppose.).

I found player bow damage at least as annoying. It veers from being easily the best way to take some categories of enemies out - even when not very skilled/perked - to utterly useless.

Followers I really don't like the idea of. I can see how they might have felt the need to balance for them mind. There's another thing actually - the AI whereby a dwemer centurion will pummel my illusion while I'm standing there behind it hacking it to death slowly. Very silly.
 

a cut of domestic sheep prime

Guest
instead of bitching I just practiced my melee skills and unlearned some habits that were getting me killed.
In all seriousness, I am curious to see some gameplay vids from you and the other supports of Requiem starting at level 1. I honestly am not sure whether you really are as good at it as you claim, or are just cheesing the system over and over and don't mind enough to notice/remember.
 
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Provide some video proof of you standing next to an archer naked, getting hit, and not dying instantly.

Who said anything about getting hit? I said my elf can survive through those encounters. :smug:

I don't get hit close range because I'm not a scrub who stands in clear line of sight from archers, or any ranged enemy for that matter. And no, that doesn't mean I have to keep 1km away from enemies flinging fireballs at them. Git gud.

Okay, serious answer now. The problem is that, if I understood it correctly, you have a very specific type of character in mind. A warrior who refuses to use any sort of defense. No shield, heavy armor, alchemy, illusions, conjurations, wards, mercenaries, whatever. No ranged damage either, because he's a supa brave warrior ^_^. If you want to play with such a crippled character, you better come up with a really good strategy to take on the enemies that poke your weakness.

For example, my naked elf's can deal with archers easily, but his nemeses are trolls. They're fast melee enemies who resist lightning (my favorite form of attack. Hitscan bolts <3), and they don't like fire. But my fireball is too slow to hit them reliably, the flamethrower isn't strong enough to get over their regen. My illusions aren't good enough to work on them either. The typical way I deal with enemies gets me raped if I try it with them. So what do I do? I stay the fuck away from them if I'm alone, or conjure a warrior-type creature to deal with them directly while I help from the sidelines, either by using fire or buffing my buddy(ies). A warrior however, has no trouble with them, as NPCs helpfully demonstrate to me from time to time.

In this case, your weakness are archers because you insist on getting close and whacking them to death, except you don't have a way to protect yourself from them at close range so your only strategies are to eat the arrows or hope they glitch. Either give up on your "roleplaying" idea of a character who never uses anything other than a sword, or get a sword strong enough to kill them before they nock another arrow. They also have a limited supply of arrows, so if all else fails you could just not charge them until they run out. Or you could just bash them in close range so they drop/break their bow. I don't buy the "machinegun" argument either. Their attack speed is unchanged, and their arrows are just 25% (maybe 50%) faster than vanilla, where arrows were slow enough that you could dodge them at a leisure pace.
 
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a cut of domestic sheep prime

Guest
And no, that doesn't mean I have to keep 1km away from enemies flinging fireballs at them.
Randomly: here's vid of someone doing just that for half an hour to the same enemies over and over: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4kgWVNHENRE
Wow. Looks so fun.

Here's another with some guy grinding on mudcrabs (no, not that kind of grinding): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xYzglo6UN2Q

edit:

Okay, serious answer now. The problem is that, if I understood it correctly, you have a very specific type of character in mind. A warrior who refuses to use any sort of defense. No shield, heavy armor, alchemy, illusions, conjurations, wards, mercenaries, whatever. No ranged damage either, because he's a supa brave warrior ^_^. If you want to play with such a crippled character, you better come up with a really good strategy to take on the enemies that poke your weakness.
So what you are saying is that a two-handed weapon melee user is a crippled character in Requiem?
 
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Joined
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That indeed isn't fun at all. Good thing that, as I said, it's not needed. LP guy should just git gud. All the problems go away when you git gud.


disclaimer: I won't watch two hour long videos, point out when the interesting thing happens.
 

Nathair

Educated
Joined
Jan 12, 2012
Messages
55
Wouldn't a pure two handed melee character without backup spend an awful lot of time getting totally swarmed anyway?
 

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