Improving Skyrim / Recommended Mods thread (Mostly about Requiem)

[Gord]

Except it's not that easy to just split or explode someone and even a shitty iron battleaxe brought down on your head in a forceful blow (power attack) will kill you dead in Requiem with more certainty than an arrow, even if you're heavily armoured.

Always hitting a vital spot with an arrow isn't easy either, yet you die 100% from them when <150m or so.
Arrows should be made less lethal, making it possible to survive one hit by them, albeit barely.
Expending resources to recover is a better punishment than "lol, you're dead, reload!"

You're missing the point of that comparison. Since there is no locational damage, when you draw a bow all the way back, it's an equivalent power attack (i.e., hitting a vital spot). Try shooting arrows with partial draw and see how effective that is.

Not the right comparison, either, imho, since we still seem to get 100% power attacks from (enemy) bows, while the amount of power attacks from other weapons is much lower.
Admittedly bows are slower weapons, but still - they got other advantages, such as the huge range.
Basically I'd tone down bows to the amount of damage they do for mid-large distance - you get hit, lose 1/2-3/4 of your (max) health and get staggered. Much more sensible, because suddenly an character at full health might actually survive one hit/mistake, while still being put into a predicament for being too sloppy.

 

[DraQ]

Always hitting a vital spot with an arrow isn't easy either, yet you die 100% from them when <150m or so.

The problem here is that Skyrim can't discern whether an arrow has hit a vital spot or not, so we run into an abstraction we can't avoid while still just modding Skyrim.

Damage fall-off can be seen as both function of dimnished penetration and reduced ability to hit vital spots, but overall when forced into abstraction, take the one that works the best.
Requiem's arrows do work well, because they aren't much threat if you don't stay exposed for prolonged periods of time and keep moving when exposed, while they still force you into cover and disallow meleeing enemies with ranged support in the open or frontal charges without adequate protection or your own support of some sort.

 

[Lhynn]

apologist gonna derp. Those are excuses, the game leaves little to no room for abstraction, and even if it did, then weapons should also get the default benefit of all attacks being called shots to vital areas. So a power attack with a an axe against a dragon should mean i just threw my weapon inside his mouth, it critically hit his heart and then the dragon threw up my weapon back at my hand as he died.

Saying that it is easy to avoid if you play smart does not change the fact that it is bullshit, no matter how much you cover your ears and scream at the top of you lungs that it is manageable.

 

[Tigranes]

Great, thanks guys. I'll start assembling my sex shit-free modlist for Christmas break.

 

[RK47]

 

[a cut of domestic sheep prime]

 

[Commissar Draco]

Shrines can't cure it; and what are harpes compared to the power of Talos Storm-crown who transferred* Jungle into England with one breath? Also Latex Condoms in TES? Totally Unrealistic.

*Yes the Joos Kirkbridge did this.

 

[DraQ]

apologist gonna derp. Those are excuses, the game leaves little to no room for abstraction

Except it runs face first into it by failing to provide checks for hit locations.
It's not modder's fault.
It's not player's fault.

It's how Beth coded fucking Skyrim.

then weapons should also get the default benefit of all attacks being called shots to vital areas.

You do realize the difference between melee and ranged combat? You can do all sorts of stuff while getting swung at or even hit to minimize melee damage, while arrow just sticks into you. It doesn't have arm with limited reach attached to it, it doesn't depend as much on angle of attack as slashing weapon does.

So a power attack with a an axe against a dragon should mean i just threw my weapon inside his mouth, it critically hit his heart and then the dragon threw up my weapon back at my hand as he died.

Shrines can't cure it; and what are harpes compared to the power of Talos Storm-crown who transferred* Jungle into England with one breath? Also Latex Condoms in TES? Totally Unrealistic.

*Yes the Joos Kirkbridge did this.

I always sort of imagine him doing this Superman-like stunt of trying to to catch TES lore falling in flames like an about-to-crash jet plane with all engines ablaze, then getting just pummeled into the ground in the cloud of jagged debris and flaming jet fuel instead of saving the day.

I mean it's the only fitting visual metaphor for trying to save Oblivion with even MK's lore-crafting skill.

 

[Heresiarch]

Deadly Combat vs Ultimate Combat. Which is better and why? Duel I've heard is quite boring because it doesn't change much, thus only prolong the already boring combat (unless you install the hardcore edition).

Deadly Combat sounds pretty awesome, with better AI, weakened armor + higher damage (i.e. more lethal combat), AI capable to dodge, better stagger mechanism, etc.

Ultimate Combat looks also awesome, also with better AI, enemies dodging, enemies having special power attacks, and Dragon Priests and Dwarven Centurions getting new, powerful, lethal attacks.

Holy shit choices choices choices!!!!

BTW is it normal for Nexus sites to be so fucking slow all the time everyday?

 

[DraQ]

Why don't you try Requiem?

It's neat, self contained package you don't need to fuck around with.
Install, start a character, and you either like it or not.

 

[Lhynn]

Does the plant tag apply to free mods by the community, or just commercial titles?
BTW, what is wrong with me mod manager? i cant seem to download stuff from the nexus. Says invalid response

 

[Gord]

Except it runs face first into it by failing to provide checks for hit locations.
It's not modder's fault.
It's not player's fault.

It's how Beth coded fucking Skyrim.

However, one might say that if anyway the game has no such checks, abstracting it by simply saying every hit is a critical one is just as derp since it's the opposite extreme (and this is the modders fault). Why not give it a certain random chance instead to apply a high damage multiplier?
Even if the script engine is slow, it's hardly so bad that it can't do a simple random number check on an attack.
Would probably make for a better abstraction than what Requiem does now.

 

[Clockwork Knight]

I can't for the life of me understand at all those "railgun arrow instakilled me " posts. My altmer in mage clothes with double digits health can survive arrows as long as I don't get hit point-blank like a retard.

How can you people suck so fucking hard? Git gud, nubs.

I was hoping someone would share their modlist. Cowardly decline shit, I know, but I'm working 16 hour days at the moment...

Just get one overhaul like SkyRe, Requiem, ERSO, etc. Then add whatever else you think you need as you play, as long as you don't install a truckload of mods at once it should be easy to uninstall the ones you don't want to keep. Those "My Absolute Mod List" lists are actually very personal and what is vomit inducing for me might be pretty nice for you.

Does the plant tag apply to free mods by the community, or just commercial titles?
BTW, what is wrong with me mod manager? i cant seem to download stuff from the nexus. Says invalid response

Don't use the Nexus mod manager download function, it sometimes bugs out and it's a pain to track down where it did so. Download mods manually and just use the manager to organize the load order.

Alternatively, use Mod Organizer, which I'm told is better all around.

edit:

However, one might say that if anyway the game has no such checks, abstracting it by simply saying every hit is a critical one is just as derp since it's the opposite extreme (and this is the modders fault). Why not give it a certain random chance instead to apply a high damage multiplier?
Even if the script engine is slow, it's hardly so bad that it can't do a simple random number check on an attack.
Would probably make for a better abstraction than what Requiem does now.

Enemies with bullshit hugely damaging criticals are way more annoying than enemies who just cause huge damage all the time. They're unpredictably deadly and you always feel like the AI is out to get you.

 

[Lhynn]

no, im using mod organizer, sorry. downloads not working tho.

 

[DraQ]

However, one might say that if anyway the game has no such checks, abstracting it by simply saying every hit is a critical one is just as derp since it's the opposite extreme (and this is the modders fault). Why not give it a certain random chance instead to apply a high damage multiplier?
Even if the script engine is slow, it's hardly so bad that it can't do a simple random number check on an attack.
Would probably make for a better abstraction than what Requiem does now.

But then, if I understand Skyrim's scripting engine and symptoms of its various malfunctions correctly, you'd still need to queue all the attacks through script engine, that could be already clogged by all sorts of shit at the time and unable to resolve those request in timely and reliable manner.

 

[Drax]

The Nexus is having a "maintenance" week, it's been painfully slow last few days.
I've been trying to download Requiem to check how it had advanced (I tried it once when it initially came out, but it had a lot of rough edges at the time) and it's a fucking pain in the ass...

 

[set]

Clockwork Knight:

Arrow damage is distance based. If you're a puny coward hiding behind a rock a thousand miles away from an archer who is clumsily shooting at you while you hurl bolts of death at it... you will easily survive a hit, if you're even lucky to be hit.

But if you're a hardcore melee character within spitting distance of an archer you will take significant impact damage and it's pretty much unavoidable unless you can somehow take cover at an angle to deflect the arrow, then burst forward and counter attack before the archer draws another arrow. Even taking up a shield is pretty ineffective once you're close enough.

Maybe you should try playing a melee character and abandon that dishonorable mage conduct.

 

[DraQ]

Clockwork Knight:

Arrow damage is distance based. If you're a puny coward hiding behind a rock a thousand miles away from an archer who is clumsily shooting at you while you hurl bolts of death at it... you will easily survive a hit, if you're even lucky to be hit.

But if you're a hardcore melee character within spitting distance of an archer you will take significant impact damage and it's pretty much unavoidable unless you can somehow take cover at an angle to deflect the arrow, then burst forward and counter attack before the archer draws another arrow. Even taking up a shield is pretty ineffective once you're close enough.

Maybe you should try playing a melee character and abandon that dishonorable mage conduct.

If you're playing a bare-ass barbarian who can't think of any other approach but to charge a wall of archers screaming, then you get your honorabru death.

Problem?

 

[Clockwork Knight]

Arrow damage is distance based.

Yeah, I already said that three or four times. No one seems to notice though. They'd rather focus on how arrows hurt you when you're within spitting distance of the archer. Which is a severe detriment to proper roleplaying. My dual wielding, ligh armored magicphobe character has no means of defense whatsoever, but that doesn't mean he should get hurt. That is not awesome!

But if you're a hardcore melee character within spitting distance of an archer you will take significant impact damage and it's pretty much unavoidable[...]

Nope. Archers have bows, not machineguns. You have long intervals to reposition yourself while he's getting another arrow ready. If you use that interval to dash at him from afar, he'll be ready when you are close to him and rightfully shove the arrow into your mouth. And then there are the many ranged enemies will rather pull a melee weapon if you get close to them, making it even easier.

The ending of the words is ALMSIVI GITGUDNUB.

 

[Clockwork Knight]

I'm not sure if 14th century warfare tactics are relevant to skyrim

 

[a cut of domestic sheep prime]

Clockwork Knight:

Arrow damage is distance based.

Ouch! That arrow hit me in the head! Good thing I was far enough away for it to only go partially into my brain!

Clockwork KnightIf you're a puny coward hiding behind a rock a thousand miles away from an archer who is clumsily shooting at you while you hurl bolts of death at it... you will easily survive a hit, if you're even lucky to be hit.

But if you're a hardcore melee character within spitting distance of an archer you will take significant impact damage and it's pretty much unavoidable unless you can somehow take cover at an angle to deflect the arrow, then burst forward and counter attack before the archer draws another arrow. Even taking up a shield is pretty ineffective once you're close enough.

Maybe you should try playing a melee character and abandon that dishonorable mage conduct.

Which is why I ultimately uninstalled Requeim: I hate appying weird metagamey tactics to win. Dodging left and right so that the bad archer AI will miss isn't strategic or realistic any more than cheesing the AI by hiding behind a rock and casting spells every battle, it just ruins suspension of disbelief. In Requiem you are forced to play one class: self-deceiving metamunchkin. Rather than increasing the roleplaying elements as it claims, all it does it turn it into a frustrating twitch fest that often leaves you wondering why on earth the modder chose to do X, Y, or Z. Getting "gud" at something like that isn't something I'm prepared to waste my time on.

 

[Clockwork Knight]

On the other hand, tanking arrows with your face is pretty good gameplay. Taking care not to get hit is metagaming munchkin bullshit. True roleplaying consists of pausing the game midcombat and eat an instant healing potion.

One question, why did you even install it in the first place? Vanilla already has what you want. Archers are minor annoyances at best, you don't have to protect yourself, you don't need to use spells, you don't need to be at least in the double digit levels to kill a dragon, or at least be stronger than the average town guard before the jarl sends you on a quest to protect his city...just take that rusty iron sword from the tutorial and left click all the things.



I'm not surprised someone doesn't like Requiem, that's easy to understand...but those complaints, man. It's like I got redirected to the Beth forums and didn't notice.

 

[DraQ]

Ouch! That arrow hit me in the head! Good thing I was far enough away for it to only go partially into my brain!

How about:

"Ouch! That arrow got stuck in my leather armour, but will still leave a bruise."
"Ouch! That arrow got through, but thankfully didn't have the momentum to go between the ribs. Still hurts like fuck."
"Gaah! I have an arrow in my lunGURGLEGURGLEGLORP!"
?

In Requiem you are forced to play one class: self-deceiving metamunchkin.

Beats reusable human pincushion.

Honestly, what tactics you *would* like to see in a solo game where you can face a bunch of archers as a guy with just a big sword and fur skirt?

 

[Nathair]

Have to say that (having played a fair bit), I was left with the ultimate impression that the balance was quite badly out in a few ways. Think I ultimately preferred what Oblivion/OOO did. Still quite a bit of fun in its own way. Probably plenty of it down to base Skyrim of course (Never played it, likely never will.).

That went both ways - archery vs lightly armoured enemies/mages really is rather extreme too, summoning seemingly immortal illusionary demoras etc. The saddest thing, because its so fixable in principle (but is likely down to base Skyrim), was perhaps the big disconnect between the sorts of items you get and the seeming (very reasonable a proiri) expectations cf resistances/elemental damage.

The night eye in day time visual effect really is something of a special effort.

 

[DraQ]

Have to say that (having played a fair bit), I was left with the ultimate impression that the balance was quite badly out in a few ways.

My impression with Requiem is that balancing process looked more or less like this:

Fuck balance, let's make everything OP in different manner!!!1

Which, coincidentally, is the way I like it - the more effort you put into balancing stuff, the more dull will the outcome likely become.