Development Info InXile consults academics to create Wasteland authenticity

[DraQ]

BTW I don't think this is that unusual. I'd be very surprised for instance if DX:HR didn't have scientific consultants. That game had tons of plausible technobabble.

This.

Anyway, the point of having scientific consultant isn't changing plot-critical or setting critical-stuff. It's verifying that stuff that isn't plot critical isn't just plain fucking derp, and that stuff in critical positions but replaceable by something else gets replaced by the least derpy equivalent possible.

If you make a game, you're probably aiming for having a lot of people playing it. If this game isn't complete dudebro derpfest, quite a few players will be intelligent fellows with various kinds of education - students, experts, scientists and even just geeks of all sorts.
If you have neither a clue nor someone with a clue at hand when devising various aspects of your conworld, chances are, that quite a lot of them will spend more time facepalming than playing your fucking game. Not having the right consultants fucking shows.
OTOH having proper consultants serves as a great way to add extra value for people interested or otherwise involved in the subject in addition to improving the conworld's consistency for everyone.

Again, the point isn't replacing your juicy intended absurdity with dry mundane shit. It's avoiding unintended absurdity.
Take Anachronox, for example - it's hilariously and unpredictably absurd game almost all the time. When it needs to be. When it doesn't? Poof, newtonian missiles.
And it's fucking better for it than it would be otherwise.

As for DX:HR, it shows they had consultants for their augmentation needs. Shit's pretty monocle and I really enjoyed reading the e-books regarding augs.
Unfortunately it also shows they didn't have a consultant for genetics. Every single time they mentioned DNA and AJ being ahead in evolution I fucking cringed and rolled my eyes. It diminished my gameplay enjoyment at least as much as the derpy boss battles did.

 

[Vault Dweller]

You're being a philistine, VD. Yes, fictional worlds absolutely can use logic, plausibility and internal consistency.

There is a huge difference between a retarded world that's illogical and inconsistent (Fallout 3) and a world that's science! approved. A good developer (and I'm pretty sure that Fargo is a good developer) can easily come up with an interesting, consistent, and logical (if you buy a premise or two) world. It was never a problem in the past, why is it now?

People keep pointing at different games like Deus Ex: HR or Fallout 3. The latter is retarded and inconsistent because Bethesda can't into settings. Deus Ex is a first person game that tries to make you feel like you're living in teh future but sort of fails because the future is exactly the same as a the present only with implants which turn people into zombies. So much for fucking science. Replace the sci-fi decorations in the game with something from the 90s and the game will feel and play like a typical "office" shooter with stealth elements - you use the stairs, elevators, sneak around boxes, run on rooftops, and use firearms.

Just because some NPCs tell you about science! doesn't make you go all "holy shit man it is teh future!"

Anyway, to sum up my position:

1. For the feature to be a Good Thing (TM), the lack of the feature should be a problem. It's not.
2. Ok, it doesn't fix anything, but does it improve something? I don't see how to. Not in a game like Wasteland that has all kinda crazy (but fun) shit. Did all the people who clap their hands and rejoice because science! is in even play Wasteland?
3. Realistic details aren't a good thing by default. Are any of you faggots old enough to remember Sierra' Outpost?

 

[Vault Dweller]

I am really angry about Wasteland 2

Anyone who doesn't just fucking love everything about the game is clearly very angry about it. Why else wouldn't they love it?

 

[Infinitron]

For the feature to be a Good Thing (TM), the lack of the feature should be a problem.

I completely disagree.

 

[almondblight]

If you have neither a clue nor someone with a clue at hand when devising various aspects of your conworld, chances are, that quite a lot of them will spend more time facepalming than playing your fucking game. Not having the right consultants fucking shows.

What, and they lack Google? Here's the first problem. If there's something in the game world that would break the immersion for most people, an internet search will probably reveal the problems with it in under five minutes. If it's something that's nowhere to be found and only people that have a PhD in that field would be able to tell you about it, chances are, it's not going to bother more than five people at most. Hell, once you get to that point you're going to be doing better than just about any other game out there. Yes, even hard-science games like Bioshock.

Here's the next problem. Most people here don't seem to understand that being a Scientist! doesn't mean much. It's like saying, I hired a few computer guys to deal with my computer problems. Programming? Web design? Network security? SEO? They can take care of it, they're computer guys! Thwacke consists of three people plus three blog contributors. Chances are that a lot of the work they're doing is looking stuff up themselves.

What problems are they working on? What kind of animals would survive a nuclear fallout? I'm going to go out on a limb here - I'm not a Scientist! or anything - but I'm guessing that there won't be deathclaws, two-headed brahmin, or radscorps. So anyone bothered by the lack of realism in Fallout can give me a call.

But if for some reason it's important that Wasteland 2 has more birch than pine trees...

But one of the few certainties to emerge from research into low-level radiation since 1986 is that different species react to chronic exposure in different ways. Pine trees cope less well than birch. Migrant barn swallows are apparently very radio-sensitive, resident birds less so. Winter wheat seeds taken from the Exclusion Zone in the days after the disaster and since germinated in uncontaminated soil have produced thousands of different mutant strains, and every new generation remains genetically unstable, even 25 years after the accident. Yet a 2009 study of soybeans grown near the reactor seemed to show that the plants change at a molecular level to protect themselves against radiation.

...then hell, you can find that info here after two minutes of Googling. You don't need to hire scientists to tell you that, even if anyone gave a damn about it.

 

[Vault Dweller]

I mean, I guess if I was struggling to finish a game it took gods know how long to complete, to the point where I quit my job to live off of Dead State Kickstarter funds in desperation to reach the finish line, I'd be pretty blasting towards other peoples projects to, even if it does get very fucking old and lose it's value at some point.

And the inevitable "let's make it about AoD" post...

- I'm not struggling to finish it. 4 people working part-time for years isn't the same as a proper and experienced team working full time. The years we spent learning and working on the game don't bother me in the least, why do they bother you?

- I quit my job because I enjoy working on the game a lot more than I enjoy my full time job. I want to enjoy it more, to wake up every morning and work on the game, not drive to work and spend 8 hours managing sales I don't give a shit about. Should the game fail, I'd have no problem finding a suitable employment.

- I'm not working on DS and thus I'm not getting any DS money. Nor do I need them.

- I'm not blasting other people's projects. I'm "blasting" things I don't like, much like I've always done. I'm very enthusiastic about PE, but I don't love absolutely everything about the game and I reserve the right to be as critical as I fucking like, despite the fact that I gave them $500 to support the effort. Just because I don't like some aspects doesn't mean that I'm totally jealous that they are making a game.

Similarly, I was very excited about WL2 and thought that it was the best thing that happened to PC gaming. I'm not very excited about the lack of any info, because I consider it a red flag. While Obsidian had hits and misses over the last 10 years, Fargo had only misses, so forgive me if I'm not screaming like a little girl on a Justin Bieber's concert every time Fargo tweets something meaningless. Sure, him tweeting doesn't mean that the game will be bad, but it doesn't fill me with confidence that it will be good either.

 

[TwinkieGorilla]

You can't say anything remotely retarded about Wasteland 2 without angering anybody not remotely retarded.

Yep.

if you can't handle the heat then stay in the respective circlejerk threads.

Awwww, yeahhhhh bro. It's so hot in here with all that really hot, edgy and intelligent criticism!

"Bahhh, these guys waste a money. Bad to have thing I don't know maybe nothing about haha retards. Look at one example like soil erosion I think of to say it's bad because they spend science haha idiot faggots."

 

[DraQ]

What, and they lack Google?

No, they lack time, ability to look at stuff from tens viewpoints at once, quite a few of which are generally honed by working in the field, they lack mental capacity to learn a crapload of unrelated stuff at a whim and keep it for indefinite amount of time, and they lack formal education to adapt what they learn to fiction they create.

Having someone to shoot down your ideas when you're busy sperging over something else is invaluable.

 

[Moribund]

Would people complain so much if they had consulted NAZI scientits?

 

[Alex]

Would people complain so much if they had consulted NAZI scientits?

Nope, because nazi science is already gonzo.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Having someone to shoot down your ideas when you're busy sperging over something else is invaluable.

And how exactly do you picture it?

Fargo: Mutants!
Scientist: Sure.
Fargo: Mutants that fart toxic gases!
Scientist: I'll get back to you on this one. I need to consult our toxic warfare guy.
Fargo: Giant vegetables!
Scientist: It's not very plausible but sure.
Fargo: Giant vegetables with eyes!
Scientist: No! No, no, no.
Fargo: Iron wolf!
Scienctist: Just what the fuck is an iron wolf?
Fargo: Um, a wolf made of .. iron? Maybe? I thought...
Scientist: No!
Fargo: Mailed wolf?
Scientist: What?
Fargo: Hear me out. You take a wolf and mail it to your enemy. In a box. The enemy opens the box and the wolf jumps out and eats him. Ergo, mailed wolf!
Scientist: They don't pay me enough...

 

[Jaesun]

 

[Infinitron]

Having someone to shoot down your ideas when you're busy sperging over something else is invaluable.

And how exactly do you picture it?

Fargo: Mutants!
Scientist: Sure.
Fargo: Mutants that fart toxic gases!
Scientist: I'll get back to you on this one. I need to consult our toxic warfare guy.
Fargo: Giant vegetables!
Scientist: It's not very plausible but sure.
Fargo: Giant vegetables with eyes!
Scientist: No! No, no, no.
Fargo: Iron wolf!
Scienctist: Just what the fuck is an iron wolf?
Fargo: Um, a wolf made of .. iron? Maybe? I thought...
Scientist: No!
Fargo: Mailed wolf?
Scientist: What?
Fargo: Hear me out. You take a wolf and mail it to your enemy. In a box. The enemy opens the box and the wolf jumps out and eats him. Ergo, mailed wolf!
Scientist: They don't pay me enough...

No, see, you're thinking about basic concepts rather than details. That's not what the scientists are for.

High IQ is a valuable thing. Having more smart guys in the room looking at what you're doing and commenting on it is always good.

I realize that doesn't jibe well with your autistic idealistic worldview of "lone misunderstood geniuses changing the world".

 

[Vault Dweller]

No, see, you're thinking about basic concepts rather than details. That's not what the scientists are for.

What are they for then? Please enlighten me.

High IQ is a valuable thing. Having more smart guys in the room looking at what you're doing and commenting on it is always good.

Is it? I know that that's what Fargo said, so it must be right, but still...

I realize that doesn't jibe well with your idealistic worldview of "lone geniuses" changing the world.

Disagreeing with me is one thing. Making shit up is another.

 

[FeelTheRads]

Is it?

Yes, it is.

I know that that's what Fargo said, so it must be right, but still...

I know you say it's not, so it must not be, but still...

 

[Infinitron]

Is it? I know that that's what Fargo said, so it must be right, but still...

I didn't need Fargo to tell me that. BTW, notice I said commenting, ie, this is not design by committee.

 

[Vault Dweller]

I know that that's what Fargo said, so it must be right, but still...

I know you say it's not, so it must not be, but still...

I'm not the one who's repeating Fargo's lines, passing them for my own.

 

[DraQ]

Vault Dweller - if I ask you to stop being dumb will you?

 

[Vault Dweller]

Is it? I know that that's what Fargo said, so it must be right, but still...

I didn't need Fargo to tell me that. BTW, notice I said commenting, ie, this is not design by committee.

My point - again - that Fargo made an iconic, atmospheric, and fucking amazing RPG without needing any high IQ men in the room. Can anyone explain why is it necessary now? Why is it "OMG! Science! It's gonna be so awesome!" all of a sudden?

Great RPGs aren't made by scientists and they have fuck all to do with science. They are made by people who can create interesting if not entirely plausible worlds, situations, and creatures. People who are good at game design. And Outpost is a good example of what happens when scientists get involved.

 

[Infinitron]

Can anyone explain why is it necessary now?

Yes. This game is going to have far more text than the original Wasteland. More detail that needs to be filled in.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Look - Alderson drive!

Wow. Science works well in hard sci-fi. Who'd have thought?

 

[tuluse]

A good RPG needs good world building. I think having a couple of research interns scientists around could help with world building.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Can anyone explain why is it necessary now?

Yes. This game is going to have far more text than the original Wasteland. More detail that needs to be filled in.

You really take the apologist role seriously, Infintron. Can't help but admire your dedication.

So, FAR more text automatically means FAR more science talk? Not quests and just talking to people about life and shit?

 

[FeelTheRads]

A good RPG needs good world building. I think having a couple of research interns scientists around could help with world building.

Nobody cares about that, I heard.

Wow. Science works well in hard sci-fi. Who'd have thought?

I thought real star data doesn't matter either.

 

[Brayko]

They are made by people who can create interesting if not entirely plausible worlds, situations, and creatures.

I'm playing Gothic II: Night of the Raven and it fits all of that. I laughed out loud at the priest of Innos asking for gold for his blessing with a southern accent.

I fail to see how it's impossible, though, to make something that isn't shit, by getting a little scientific insight for enhanced content. I mean, maybe there's a quest that involves mixing the right chemicals for an enhanced explosive? A scientist, more than anyone, could add some richness to thus quest. Not all of it has to be made up satire of realism, you know.