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Game News inXile reveal Wasteland 3's party system

Fenix

Arcane
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PST had romance.
Not the kind other games had later.

I find both silly to say that either party creation or companion is the way to go and the other is pure garbage. I prefer having some games with companions, some games with party creation and some games that allows both.
While I agree, people seems don't understand that waht works in Wasteland, doesn't works in Wasteland 2 beacuse it is diffrent games that have in common only lore.

BTW, my favorite follower system was in Jagged Alliance 2. It isn't party creation nor RPG. They could have more depth, you don't chooser their stats, but you have a large choices, each have their quirks and personality, they could turn on you or on each other, you have to pay them or a regular basis or they just leave, and some have a small involvement in quests or encounters. They just don't follow you blindly and stay themselves.
Agree - best system no one was able to surpass.
 
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naossano

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It is low on questing, C n C, lore, and character interactions.
Not saying there is no RPG parts, but the focus is more into strategy, management of ressources, zone management, tactical combat.

Sure, it is more an RPG that many game that pretend to be RPGs, but imo, the main focus of the game is the strategic side.

About party creation, i guess i forgot about it, but i assume you don't create a party from the get go.
 

Lexx

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Actually in vanilla JA2 you are only able to create a single character. 1.13 is a mod and that changes more of the game than just that.

It's kinda funny and sad at the same time that JA2 is considered an rpg nowadays.
 

naossano

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I would say strategic game first and foremost, with rpg features on top of it.
There is so much strategic content that i can't imagine considering it as an rpg with strategic features.
 

mondblut

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Actually in vanilla JA2 you are only able to create a single character.

To my knowledge, 90210 IMP code has worked in vanilla JA2 and was only disabled in Gold.

1.13 is a mod and that changes more of the game than just that.

It has long became a de-facto standart of playing JA2.

It's kinda funny and sad at the same time that JA2 is considered an rpg nowadays.

What's funny and sad is that there are people who believe nowadays an rpg is supposed to be something else. (((current year))) an' shit. "we changed it, now it is better". Well, fuck no.
 

mondblut

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I would say strategic game first and foremost, with rpg features on top of it.
There is so much strategic content that i can't imagine considering it as an rpg with strategic features.

What strategic content, getting money from the mines? :roll:

The only marginally non-RPG-like aspect of JA2 is that you are supposed to clear an entire sector of all enemies at once before kicking back and starting to ask people for fetch quests. Somehow RPGs insist on splitting enemies within a location into bite-sized groups that never give a rat's ass about fireballs exploding 20 yards away from them and their screaming buddies being dismembered next door. I, for one, have doubts that it makes a good development.

It is low on questing, C n C, lore, and character interactions.

So are Wizardry, goldbox series and the rest of proper RPGs before ultima faggotry overrun the genre.

Not saying there is no RPG parts, but the focus is more into strategy, management of ressources, zone management, tactical combat.

Management of resources and tactical combat were the name of the game since Gygax met Arneson. As for "strategy", there is none beyond "do I clean this dungeon, sorry, sector first, or the other one".
 
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naossano

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I would say strategic game first and foremost, with rpg features on top of it.
There is so much strategic content that i can't imagine considering it as an rpg with strategic features.

What strategic content, getting money from the mines? :roll:
.

- Ressource management (income from mines and loot, money for you crew, time, as the mines eventually dry out)
- Tactical combat
- City management (notably managing the defense of those cities, training and deploying militia, conquering adjacent areas)
- Control of landing sites
- Overall control of the global map, while the enemies keep sending troops to get back the areas you took from him.
- PR management so you will be able to keep hiring mercs.
- Managing your mercs so you will have enough of them to take new cities and enough to defend the others, knowing that you can't be everywhere at any time.

- You own perspective as the player is the perspective of a ressource manager and a tactician, who hire mercenaries and militia to do the ground work for you. Every fighter is a pawn in the chess game you, the one who hired them, and the enemy army. You are not part of the group of advendurers that do the work on the site. You are the one sending them.

Apparently retards can't read. It's in the goddamn box.

So every game that has rpg mentioned on the box is actually one ? It would spare us a lot of troubles if it was true.
 
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duanth123

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And I would take a new PST or MOTB 1000 times over WL2, POE, FO:BOS and other retarded party creation games and most of the people would agree with me.

1. Would you anitisocial retarded fuck survive selective breeding? Not exactly mister universe are you?

It seems pretty retarded to believe InXile possesses the ability to create a PST or MOTB, notwithstanding the extremely low probabilities involved should an accomplishment even be hypothetically possible.

And what are the odds of Inxile creating a very good tactical game with party creation?

To the extent they gleaned even a small amount of practical knowledge from WL2: greater. And I'd also prefer a failed version of the aforementioned rather than some horrifying abortion like DA2, which is the artistic curl de sac for a lot of these romance/companion/immersive design tendencies
 

Zed Duke of Banville

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google jagged alliance 2 box
Jagged_Alliance_2_-_PC_Big_Box_-_NEW_-_Front_1024x1024.JPG


"A strategy game with RPG elements". :M

The Germans got it right (though I'd call it a squad-based tactics game with RPG elements and a strategic overlay).
 
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Shilandra

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I have to thank mondblut though. I didn't know about the goldbox classics and they look really interesting. I needed something to play after tyranny and all those games look like they could keep me entertained for the next several months alone. Really glad you bought them up.
 

Zanzoken

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... and Keenan offers a solution. “What if we give the player a little bit of a sense of the world so they can start to feel it out and then building that stuff up afterwards so they can really make it count?”

This is a heavy-handed solution to what is really a minor issue.

If you've done your job as a designer the character system shouldn't be so complex as to require meta-knowledge. Reading the descriptions carefully and using common sense should be enough to roll a good character, at least good enough to complete the game on Normal difficulty.

I suspect the real issue is, as usual, Fargo is trying to appeal to the casualfags by dumbing the game down and offering more Bioware style imaginary friends for them to play with.
 
Self-Ejected

Excidium II

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I have to thank mondblut though. I didn't know about the goldbox classics and they look really interesting. I needed something to play after tyranny and all those games look like they could keep me entertained for the next several months alone. Really glad you bought them up.
are you a girl?
 

Roguey

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If you've done your job as a designer the character system shouldn't be so complex as to require meta-knowledge. Reading the descriptions carefully and using common sense should be enough to roll a good character, at least good enough to complete the game on Normal difficulty.

Grogs would complain about the Sawyering, so either approach works when it comes to making something better.

(Josh Sawyer's Darklands is going to be delightful)
 

mondblut

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- Ressource management (income from mines and loot, money for you crew, time, as the mines eventually dry out)
- Tactical combat
- City management (notably managing the defense of those cities, training and deploying militia, conquering adjacent areas)
- Control of landing sites
- Overall control of the global map, while the enemies keep sending troops to get back the areas you took from him.
- PR management so you will be able to keep hiring mercs.
- Managing your mercs so you will have enough of them to take new cities and enough to defend the others, knowing that you can't be everywhere at any time.

Resource management is RPG. Party management is RPG. Wandering monsters is RPG. Tactical combat is RPG.

The rest plays minuscule role in the game. Training militia sums up to leaving a 3rd rank mule PC behind for a few days. Controlling landing site is never even an issue, as parties spread from Drassen outward and intercept enemy encounters en route. There is no strategy beyond building a well-oiled party and clearing sector after sector with it.

- You own perspective as the player is the perspective of a ressource manager and a tactician, who hire mercenaries and militia to do the ground work for you. Every fighter is a pawn in the chess game you, the one who hired them, and the enemy army. You are not part of the group of advendurers that do the work on the site. You are the one sending them.

I am the one sending "them", the resource manager and tactician in every game that exists, and so is every player who isn't an oblivion-grade larper.
 

naossano

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- You own perspective as the player is the perspective of a ressource manager and a tactician, who hire mercenaries and militia to do the ground work for you. Every fighter is a pawn in the chess game you, the one who hired them, and the enemy army. You are not part of the group of advendurers that do the work on the site. You are the one sending them.

I am the one sending "them", the resource manager and tactician in every game that exists, and so is every player who isn't an oblivion-grade larper.

Unless i am mistaken, RPG make you part of the team that do the ground work, doing tasks for other, involved in the combats, the questinng, and quite often, the personnal story of your character. Not going into a checklist of the things you do, but your perspective is the one of your character or your party when there is no singular protagonist. You see the things they see, hear what they hear, do what they do. You can argue that with isometric rpg you also see your character and the things behind him, but the point is that you keep his perspective, and don't know what happens when you aren't there, unless someone tells you about it or you guess through the aftermath. Point is that when you aren't there, you don't live it.

In strategy or management game, you have a more omniscient perspective of the general, the mayor, the dictator, or whatever figure of authority that can give orders to the units at play. No matter the depth of the units, they are pawns that follow your orders or have their own wishes, are usually replaceable (if any unit dies, you can use another to fulfill the task), and you manage the overall battlefield, or gameworld, not just what happen around the protagonist and what is within his range.

In JA2 you have the same role and perspective you have in any strategic game. You are not in the shoes of one of your pawns, but the one who has an overview of the whole battlefield, the whole gamewolrd, and handle all the managing aspect. You see things that none of your units can see. You can replace any of them with another one, and the overall goal of the game would say the same. You goal isn't even the same as your units. All they want is to survive and get paid well enough, while your goal is to get control of the whole area, even if it means clashing with the goal of your units.

Not saying that the game doesn't have RPG element, but the main focus is on strategy.
 

l3loodAngel

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Messages
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- Ressource management (income from mines and loot, money for you crew, time, as the mines eventually dry out)
- Tactical combat
- City management (notably managing the defense of those cities, training and deploying militia, conquering adjacent areas)
- Control of landing sites
- Overall control of the global map, while the enemies keep sending troops to get back the areas you took from him.
- PR management so you will be able to keep hiring mercs.
- Managing your mercs so you will have enough of them to take new cities and enough to defend the others, knowing that you can't be everywhere at any time.

Resource management is RPG. Party management is RPG. Wandering monsters is RPG. Tactical combat is RPG.

Actually there are only few RPGs, which have good tactical combat. Resource management is one of the weaker parts of RPGs compared to good strategy games. Wondering monsters are featured in almost any genre. About party management: Have you played Commandos series? I heard they are the best RPGs you're gonna get.
 
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Self-Ejected

Sacred82

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saying RPG's is about tactics and resource management is like saying Tolkienesque fantasy is about realistic characters and Byzantine politics.
 

FeelTheRads

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Apr 18, 2008
Messages
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It is low on questing, C n C, lore, and character interactions.

So are Wizardry, goldbox series and the rest of proper RPGs before ultima faggotry overrun the genre.

My guess is mentossano is an adept of the Sawyerist retardation according to which an RPG is defined by what MOST PEOPLE(TM) curently think it is. Therefore, if MOST PEOPLE(TM) today think Wizardry is not an RPG, then it's not an RPG. It doesn't matter if it was before, it just isn't anymore.
 

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