Game News inXile reveal Wasteland 3's party system

[Infinitron]

Heh, you made a rage newspost out of this? I guess the way they danced around giving a straight answer about this during the campaign was kind of sleazy, but it's hardly the reason why Codexers didn't pledge to it. "Design vandalism" = the way the Codex's favorite RPGs work

 

[Azrael the cat]

You should ask both.

Sure, that's perfectly reasonable. But if that's what you're intending to do, shouldn't you wait and choose the 'pay money after the game is done, so the specs are actually finalised' option? It costs a bit more, but you still get the game at around the same time.

 

[Aenra]

Excidium II
You missed my point. Whatever your preferences or mine, one thing clear about both D:OS games was that they did not intend to be old school to the letter and/or strict repetitions of tried and true formulas. We knew in advance; about the overly humorous approach, the stat/skill simplifying, their nu-RPG agenda and boundary pushing, etc etc

They never omitted mentioning something simply because they knew we'd suppose it'd be in (or out), they never based their campaign on whatever assumptions loosely defined RPGs may conjure up; without clarifying.
Like i said, different. Doesn't matter if you agree with Swen's approach (regarding companions i don't personally), what matters is that you knew. In advance.

 

[Excidium II]

You should ask both.

Sure, that's perfectly reasonable. But if that's what you're intending to do, shouldn't you wait and choose the 'pay money after the game is done, so the specs are actually finalised' option? It costs a bit more, but you still get the game at around the same time.

You can just refund later maybe? Pledging tends to be cheaper than buying the game when it's released, if you are probably gonna buy anyway.

 

[Excidium II]

Excidium II
You missed my point. Whatever your preferences or mine, one thing clear about both D:OS games was that they did not intend to be old school to the letter and/or strict repetitions of tried and true formulas. We knew in advance; about the overly humorous approach, the stat/skill simplifying, their nu-RPG agenda and boundary pushing, etc etc

They never omitted mentioning something simply because they knew we'd suppose it'd be in (or out), they never based their campaign on whatever assumptions loosely defined RPGs may conjure up; without clarifying.
Like i said, different. Doesn't matter if you agree with Swen's approach (regarding companions i don't personally), what matters is that you knew. In advance.

You're missing the point here. My point is simple, all those modern CRPG devs shunning full party creation for no good reason. Of course Larian and InXile are different situations, but it's the same issue.

 

[naossano]

Which sentence of the initial post make you think the party creation will be removed?

 

[Q]

I don't care much about the issue. But why we covering inxile anyway? I say boycott it until fargo comes here and say sorry.

 

[Bubbles]

Suppose they'll also trim the partysize down to 1+3 like in the Fig presentation video so they can better "balance" and control the number of companions in multiplayer.

This seems likely now. I assumed that the four characters in the demo were just meant to represent the standard player-created party, but that obviously wasn't the case.

 

[MRY]

If you play with a friend, you have two player characters. :D

 

[Urthor]

Fargo's exactly right though. For first time or even 5th time RPG fans you want to learn the mechanics before really making game ending choices, the whole thing about the unchanging character sheet is arguably the single biggest anachronism for grognards in the entire genre, and assumes metagame knowledge from a 2nd playthrough that may or may not be there. It's pure 80s "we'll just adapt D&D word for word without thinking about the impact of the medium," game design. In D&D it works because you're not actually trying to minmax, video games every aspect of the system actually encourages you to minmax.

I'd argue that resetting your character at the end of the first dungeon is arguably incline, and should be encouraged.


That said, you better fucking well be able to make some characters entirely from scratch after Chapter 1/2 of the story. Learning the mechanics is one thing, but playing through the game whilst only managing one character sheet is just plain old dumbed down decline. And none of this Sawyerist "oh the locked in stat changes only reduce your overall damage output by 10%" either.

 

[Excidium II]

Fargo's exactly right though. For first time or even 5th time RPG fans you want to learn the mechanics before really making game ending choices, the whole thing about the unchanging character sheet is arguably the single biggest anachronism for grognards in the entire genre, and assumes metagame knowledge from a 2nd playthrough that may or may not be there. It's pure 80s "we'll just adapt D&D word for word without thinking about the impact of the medium," game design. In D&D it works because you're not actually trying to minmax, video games every aspect of the system actually encourages you to minmax.

I'd argue that resetting your character at the end of the first dungeon is arguably incline, and should be encouraged.


That said, you better fucking well be able to make some characters entirely from scratch after Chapter 1/2 of the story. Learning the mechanics is one thing but playing through the game whilst only managing one character sheet is just plain old decline.

R T F M
T
F
M

 

[shihonage]

It's definitely incline, because chances are the game will actually feel closer to Fallout than to Tictacs.

But, I predicted W2 was going to be an uninspired piece of somewhat competent mediocrity before it even started. That's exactly how it turned out. Fargo sure had his name on the back of a lot of CDs, but he's not really "INTO" this thing. He's just a skilled businessman and manager, who is leveraging his past associations to sell what ultimately turns out to be dog food.

 

[Excidium II]

But, I predicted W2 was going to be an uninspired piece of somewhat competent mediocrity before it even started. That's exactly how it turned out. Fargo sure had his name on the back of a lot of CDs, but he's not really "INTO" this thing. He's just a skilled businessman and manager, who is leveraging his past associations to sell what ultimately turns out to be dog food.

Yeah, he just oversees the actual developers, a bunch of people who haven't played a CRPG in 20 years.

 

[Bubbles]

Yeah, he just oversees the actual developers, a bunch of people who haven't played a CRPG in 20 years.

Wrong.

 

[SausageInYourFace]

I wonder where this bullshit Codexian Fargo the Salesman meme comes from; you'd think that if he were just a soulless businessman who doesn't even really care about the long forgotten IPs that he revives, he'd actually make big money with games outside of this tiny little RPG niche market he carved out for himself.

 

[shihonage]

I wonder where this bullshit Codexian Fargo the Salesman meme comes from; you'd think that if he were just a soulless businessman who doesn't even really care about the long forgotten IPs that he revives, he'd actually make big money with games outside of this tiny little RPG niche market he carved out for himself.

This post reveals misconceptions about how the real world works. I'm sure someone will clear them up for you.

 

[Spectacle]

You should ask both.

Sure, that's perfectly reasonable. But if that's what you're intending to do, shouldn't you wait and choose the 'pay money after the game is done, so the specs are actually finalised' option? It costs a bit more, but you still get the game at around the same time.

If everyone thinks like that the game won't get funded and nobody will get to play it.

 

[Kem0sabe]

You fuckers are surprised that Fargo and company are duplicitous pieces of shit?

 

[Excidium II]

I wonder where this bullshit Codexian Fargo the Salesman meme comes from; you'd think that if he were just a soulless businessman who doesn't even really care about the long forgotten IPs that he revives, he'd actually make big money with games outside of this tiny little RPG niche market he carved out for himself.

Because dominating a niche with captive audience is better than trying your luck in the mainstream snake nest. InXile used to be a mobile/shovelware company and look how much they grew after crowdfunding CRPGs.

 

[naossano]

Most rpg are forgiving enough that if you make the character you wish to play, you will eventually be able to win, even if your character build isn't the best ever.

 

[Roguey]

Heh, you made a rage newspost out of this?

People upset about this issue:

roshan quasimodo Starwars racofer catfood Morkar Unkillable Cat Captain Rufus moraes Atomkilla Gregz Terpsichore Unorus Janco Somberlain ERYFKRAD GrainWetski Bumvelcrow Dreed Sacred82 Bubbles Yuri Gagarin Urbanolo LJ40 pippin CryptRat cruelio Ellef Urthor IHaveHugeNick Taka-Haradin puolipeikko Fairfax Excidium II StrongBelwas AArmanFV acer palmatum Zed Duke of Banville hilfazer Hyperion Gepeu

My point is simple, all those modern CRPG devs shunning full party creation for no good reason.

They have a reason, you just don't like it.

It is a shame that Josh Sawyer is now the only person in favor of giving you the option to let you build your own after character creation.

 

[Bubbles]

It is a shame that Josh Sawyer is now the only person in favor of giving you the option to let you build your own after character creation.

StarCrawlers also starts you with a single character. Then you create your other party members one by one as "hirelings" while you learn the systems.

 

[Roguey]

I haven't read anything about it at all, but I imagine Bard's Tale 4 will have full party creation, but it'll be as simple as Bard's Tale 3, meaning attributes, class, race, gender, and that's it, and they could very well streamline attributes out of that process.

 

[Excidium II]

I haven't read anything about it at all, but I imagine Bard's Tale 4 will have full party creation, but it'll be as simple as Bard's Tale 3, meaning attributes, class, race, gender, and that's it, and they could very well streamline attributes out of that process.

iirc it's only like 4 characters because half your party oughta be summons? or something like that.

 

[Lady_Error]

Well, not announcing it earlier is kind of shitty, but then again who cares if it's the same as in many other games (PST, Torment, etc.)

Still, a 100 page thread with butthurt is warranted on this. Carry on.