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is AI going to ruin video games?

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Dec 24, 2018
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Huge budget savings for textures, art in general, voice acting. This is only a positive thing. Opposition to it is coming from megacorps who don't like the fact that "programmer art" will soon look much better, and low-grade artists who are mad that their mediocre art no longer has a market (good artists have nothing to worry about).
Where do you think good artists come from? Apart from a very select group of naturally gifted savants most people are bad, then mediocre and then they become good. If there's no need for mediocre artists the whole ecosystem will collapse and there will be almost no good artists in the future. And I personally find that there is value in mediocrity, not everything has to be a work of high art, sometimes you just need to follow the guidelines and make a thing that's proper and adequate. What's worse, people will argue (again) about the superiority of conceptual art like a random object with a wall of incoherent ramblings printed next to it. The technology is amazing but as human creativity goes this is just sacrificing long-term health for short-term gains.
We have enough great art to serve as the foundation for AI models; no further human made art is directly required, though of course it will continue to get made as the best artists will engage in their craft regardless of whether there's a market for mediocre art or not. But the fact is you can train an AI model not just on things humans have made, but on things AI has made. You can take the results of its output and use textual inversion to coax it into producing more of that output associated with a particular term, and thereby guide its output without needing further human-made inputs.

There may be value in mediocrity, but hey: game devs need to put food on the table too, and not everyone can afford to hire other people to work for them. Programmer art is great and all but it's nice if a game can look, you know, nice. From the standpoint of a solo developer I'm not really sacrificing anything at all because I never had the budget to pay for an artist in the first place. So even if the "whole ecosystem collapses" (it won't) from my perspective we'd be no worse off than we were before.

I also think you misunderstand the nature of AI art. It isn't getting rid of creativity: it lets you express creativity without needing mechanical skill (which is not creative).
 

Strig

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We have enough great art to serve as the foundation for AI models; no further human made art is directly required
This is the most idiotic, ignorant and shortsighted conclusion I've read in a long time. Good job.


I also think you misunderstand the nature of AI art. It isn't getting rid of creativity: it lets you express creativity without needing mechanical skill (which is not creative).
Closely followed by this. Double whammy. To express your creativity you need to know how, generating an image with almost no input is definitely not it. Also creativity has limited value, remember that the "idea guy" is the most shunned of all creative creatures. Is grinding and sacrificing hours, days and years to hone your skills easy and pleasurable? Not really. But acquired step by step skills let you understand what the actual hell you're doing. I'll even skip the part about personal growth, self-discipline, perseverance and other things hedonist bugmen of today find really objectionable and only say that building "mechanical skills" is double plus good and lets you explore your own creative processes. Most of the things you probably appreciate about art comes from these mechanical skills and limitations, be it of time or the medium.

Also, I never denied that image generators and similar technologies will make things easier. They will. So do debit cards, virtual currencies, smartphones and many other things. And yet all of them have downsides significant enough to make me want to wage Butlerian Jihad against all computers. Or at least follow in the steps of Uncle Ted and voice my doubts in a targeted mailing campaign to whomever it may concern.
 
Joined
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Messages
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We have enough great art to serve as the foundation for AI models; no further human made art is directly required
This is the most idiotic, ignorant and shortsighted conclusion I've read in a long time. Good job.

Then you don't have a clue how AI art works. You're also utterly blind to the state of art today versus art in the past. Find me an artist alive today better than Repin. Go on, try. We're not getting anything better than the old material that already exists, and haven't been for a very long time.

I also think you misunderstand the nature of AI art. It isn't getting rid of creativity: it lets you express creativity without needing mechanical skill (which is not creative).
Closely followed by this. Double whammy. To express your creativity you need to know how, generating an image with almost no input is definitely not it.

Rather a lot of input is required, actually - you need to figure out a very specific prompt, you need to try it a lot of times until you get the right output, and in most cases you're going to need to provide a sketch, because it (currently) doesn't understand language well enough for you to describe the composition of the scene in words. Moreover, expressing your creativity is not knowing how to draw a straight line, it's taking what's in your head and putting it into a visible image. Whether that be by hand or by interface.

Also creativity has limited value, remember that the "idea guy" is the most shunned of all creative creatures. Is grinding and sacrificing hours, days and years to hone your skills easy and pleasurable? Not really. But acquired step by step skills let you understand what the actual hell you're doing. I'll even skip the part about personal growth, self-discipline, perseverance and other things hedonist bugmen of today find really objectionable and only say that building "mechanical skills" is double plus good and lets you explore your own creative processes. Most of the things you probably appreciate about art comes from these mechanical skills and limitations, be it of time or the medium.
That's nice. I don't have the time to spend hours every day grinding art skills, I spend that time programming, grinding programming knowledge, grinding music composition skills (actually I've had to put that one on the shelf lately, sadly), and wearing out mice in Adobe Illustrator. The mechanical skills are precisely what AI replaces. Composition, determining what the scene should portray, that's still on you. Between the two, you have everything you need to produce Art. All the subsequent seething about it not being "real art" has nothing to stand on.

Also, I never denied that image generators and similar technologies will make things easier. They will. So do debit cards, virtual currencies, smartphones and many other things. And yet all of them have downsides significant enough to make me want to wage Butlerian Jihad against all computers. Or at least follow in the steps of Uncle Ted and voice my doubts in a targeted mailing campaign to whomever it may concern.
Cool. There's no downside here except for people who made a living off art, but that's equally an advantage for the people who had to pay them in the past.
 

KateMicucci

Arcane
Joined
Sep 2, 2017
Messages
1,676
Then you don't have a clue how AI art works. You're also utterly blind to the state of art today versus art in the past. Find me an artist alive today better than Repin. Go on, try. We're not getting anything better than the old material that already exists, and haven't been for a very long time.
This is a nonsensical statement. YOU have no idea what the state of art is today. https://artrenewal.org/LivingArtist/Search
 
Joined
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Messages
1,788
Then you don't have a clue how AI art works. You're also utterly blind to the state of art today versus art in the past. Find me an artist alive today better than Repin. Go on, try. We're not getting anything better than the old material that already exists, and haven't been for a very long time.
This is a nonsensical statement. YOU have no idea what the state of art is today. https://artrenewal.org/LivingArtist/Search
I do and I maintain that even the best of today's art is inferior to the work of the great masters.

It's a moot point anyways because there's no basis to suggest that AI art will kill off high skill manual art. Did VSTs kill off musicians? Of course not.
 

KateMicucci

Arcane
Joined
Sep 2, 2017
Messages
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Then you don't have a clue how AI art works. You're also utterly blind to the state of art today versus art in the past. Find me an artist alive today better than Repin. Go on, try. We're not getting anything better than the old material that already exists, and haven't been for a very long time.
This is a nonsensical statement. YOU have no idea what the state of art is today. https://artrenewal.org/LivingArtist/Search
I do and I maintain that even the best of today's art is inferior to the work of the great masters.
Whatever that means.
 

Strig

Learned
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Between the pages of Potato's "Republic"
Then you don't have a clue how AI art works. You're also utterly blind to the state of art today versus art in the past. Find me an artist alive today better than Repin. Go on, try. We're not getting anything better than the old material that already exists, and haven't been for a very long time.
I've written quite a few posts on this very forum about various types of art, be it of the modern degenerate kind or otherwise. I'd venture a guess that I know more about art than you do and I certainly appreciate it enough to not want it replaced and even regurgitated by AI generated facsimiles. Even if it were true that we don't get anything good nowadays, the decimation of paying jobs for artists may lead to us not having anything NEW worth looking at ever again. Many of the most recognisable and best works of art were commissioned and while it is certain that painters won't disappear there will be fewer of them and most of the "art" will be supplanted by output and trapped in an endless cycle of repeating patterns and styles drawn from digital noise.

As for artists of formidable skill, Giovanni Gasparo comes to mind even if I don't really like most of his paintings he definitely is a talented painter. And on top of that he causes a lot of drama among progressive types, so there's also that. I don't know if he is better than Riepin but you don't know that either so it's fine.

Rather a lot of input is required, actually - you need to figure out a very specific prompt, you need to try it a lot of times until you get the right output, and in most cases you're going to need to provide a sketch, because it (currently) doesn't understand language well enough for you to describe the composition of the scene in words. Moreover, expressing your creativity is not knowing how to draw a straight line, it's taking what's in your head and putting it into a visible image. Whether that be by hand or by interface.
Oh yes, writing a prompt (there are already generators for those) and making a napkin doodle is extremely taxing. The problem is you're not creating a visible image, it's only a result. As far as the amount of skill is required this is exactly like giving a commission to an artist. You describe what you want, make a doodle and ask him nicely to make it. It's not YOUR creativity realised, because you didn't create shite.

That's nice. I don't have the time to spend hours every day grinding art skills, I spend that time programming, grinding programming knowledge, grinding music composition skills (actually I've had to put that one on the shelf lately, sadly), and wearing out mice in Adobe Illustrator. The mechanical skills are precisely what AI replaces. Composition, determining what the scene should portray, that's still on you. Between the two, you have everything you need to produce Art. All the subsequent seething about it not being "real art" has nothing to stand on.
Why do you spend time programming and trying to compose music? They're already making generators for both of these "mechanical skills". Especially the music seems to be advancing rapidly. If painting is to be considered as a work of "art" it has to have an artist who painted it. As for the rest, like I said before, you're just commissioning an artwork. Instead of an artist a script generates it. You're not the creator, you're not an artist and since the image does not have an author who used his skills to make it's not art. Having said that, I do not deny that it may look very compelling and I do not deny it will be useful. What I do claim is that it will lead the decline of the arts even further as droves of completely unskilled, tasteless and downright incompetent "idea guys" will flock to these tools and shit out industrial levels of absolute drivel.

Cool. There's no downside here except for people who made a living off art, but that's equally an advantage for the people who had to pay them in the past.
Sure, devaluation of creative skills or the so-called "democratization" of jobs previously requiring a solid base of knowledge and practice, devaluation of art, creation of a closed cycle of AI generated nonsense, the potential death of that middle-tier art market, rise in the kitschy garbage because most people simply have no bloody taste. The last part sounds pretty long-nose-small-hat and reeks of entitlement. You want free art so to hell with skill (that particular skill you don't want to learn of course, not the ones you already know), to hell with art (no potential Riepins in the future for you, but then again you probably know the guy because he's popular in prompts so it's no skin outta your hooked nose) in other words to hell with everything that does not serve your particular need in that given moment. Like I said, idiotic, ignorant and shortsighted. And so very modern unfortunately.

Of course I see the benefits of these generators, I use them myself. But I also see these absolute pillocks coming out of the woodwork and touting themselves as artists because they plonk sentences into a textbox. Proper artists are mostly an obnoxious bunch but they do have a few skills to back that up. These AI touting cunts have as much skill as a hipster in a slam poetry competition, if not less than that. Being uncritical of these image generators makes as much sense as putting them in only negative light. It's a tool and it will be used but it does not elevate anyone above their meager skill and it brings about a set of problems whole industires will have to contend with, because soon 3D modelling will be obsolete, programming will be heavily assisted at least, prototyping, post-production, translation and many other job niches will be cut down. As companies are concerned it's fantastic, more shekels in the pocket but I do not envy the people in these sectors. Most of them are not journos who deserve to loose their jobs.

AI is only going to ruin some shovelware companies.
Au contraire mon frère, the seemingly high quality of the artwork will legitimise any shovelware project and give it a respectable veneer.
 
Joined
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Messages
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Codex Year of the Donut
Did you know there's AI tools to generate TLDRs now?
Many of the most recognisable and best works of art were commissioned. Most of the "art" will be supplanted by output and become trapped in an endless cycle of repeating patterns and styles. It's not YOUR creativity realised, because you didn't create shite. If painting is to be considered as a work of "art" it has to have an artist who painted it. Instead of an artist a script generates it. You're not the creator, you're not an artist and since the image does not have a author who made it, it's not art.
 
Joined
Jan 14, 2018
Messages
50,754
Codex Year of the Donut
With that short of an attention span you'll be a perfect drone for your new globohomo overlords. Sad to see, really, I was very hopeful about you. :betrayed:
Why do people think my unwillingness to read their drivel implies a short attention span?
Post something more interesting.
 
Unwanted

†††

Patron
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This is the place that plays long RPGs with very long-winded dialogues and coma-inducing lore dumps but refuse to read posts with more than two paragraphs.
 

KateMicucci

Arcane
Joined
Sep 2, 2017
Messages
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Au contraire mon frère, the seemingly high quality of the artwork will legitimise any shovelware project and give it a respectable veneer.
For a while. People will quickly develop an eye for the AI art, associate it with the shovelware crap videogames its attached to and the use of AI art will fade away in a few years. As a happy side effect, art ostensibly made by "humans" that were leaning heavily on photobashing and digital tools will be associated with AI art. Trad artists win again!
 

somerandomdude

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May 26, 2022
Messages
662
Among the most useless things in existence is an art degree. Soon, 100% of them instead of the current 95% of them will be running cash registers at Walmart, or will be doing similar menial jobs. If the only thing AI ever did was keep aspiring and second rate artists placed in their correct station in life, then I'd see it as a positive.
 
Joined
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Messages
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Codex Year of the Donut
Au contraire mon frère, the seemingly high quality of the artwork will legitimise any shovelware project and give it a respectable veneer.
For a while. People will quickly develop an eye for the AI art, associate it with the shovelware crap videogames its attached to and the use of AI art will fade away in a few years. As a happy side effect, art ostensibly made by "humans" that were leaning heavily on photobashing and digital tools will be associated with AI art. Trad artists win again!
90% of game art is currently mass produced by indians and chinks in sweatshops, yet nobody gives a shit

same with basically all animated tv shows/movies too
 

Strig

Learned
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Between the pages of Potato's "Republic"
Why do people think my unwillingness to read their drivel implies a short attention span?
Precisely because of this:

Post something more interesting.
You want to be entertained, like a child. People are supposed to dangle their keys to keep your attention.

Au contraire mon frère, the seemingly high quality of the artwork will legitimise any shovelware project and give it a respectable veneer.
For a while. People will quickly develop an eye for the AI art, associate it with the shovelware crap videogames its attached to and the use of AI art will fade away in a few years. As a happy side effect, art ostensibly made by "humans" that were leaning heavily on photobashing and digital tools will be associated with AI art. Trad artists win again!
I can't agree with the first part. The AI image generators will only get better, already their outputs are sometimes indistinguishable from the genuine article. I definitely see "made by humans" being a thing though.
 
Joined
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Messages
50,754
Codex Year of the Donut
You want to be entertained, like a child. People are supposed to dangle their keys to keep your attention.
Yes, I'm here to be entertained. Because that's what I used the codex for while waiting for shit to compile. Deal with it.
 

KateMicucci

Arcane
Joined
Sep 2, 2017
Messages
1,676
Au contraire mon frère, the seemingly high quality of the artwork will legitimise any shovelware project and give it a respectable veneer.
For a while. People will quickly develop an eye for the AI art, associate it with the shovelware crap videogames its attached to and the use of AI art will fade away in a few years. As a happy side effect, art ostensibly made by "humans" that were leaning heavily on photobashing and digital tools will be associated with AI art. Trad artists win again!
90% of game art is currently mass produced by indians and chinks in sweatshops, yet nobody gives a shit

same with basically all animated tv shows/movies too
You should switch to an AI-generated avatar.
 

Strig

Learned
Joined
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Messages
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Location
Between the pages of Potato's "Republic"
You want to be entertained, like a child. People are supposed to dangle their keys to keep your attention.
Yes, I'm here to be entertained. Because that's what I used the codex for while waiting for shit to compile. Deal with it.
Glad to see that you concede you have a short attention span. Faith in rusty somewhat restored. :salute:
 
Joined
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Messages
50,754
Codex Year of the Donut
Au contraire mon frère, the seemingly high quality of the artwork will legitimise any shovelware project and give it a respectable veneer.
For a while. People will quickly develop an eye for the AI art, associate it with the shovelware crap videogames its attached to and the use of AI art will fade away in a few years. As a happy side effect, art ostensibly made by "humans" that were leaning heavily on photobashing and digital tools will be associated with AI art. Trad artists win again!
90% of game art is currently mass produced by indians and chinks in sweatshops, yet nobody gives a shit

same with basically all animated tv shows/movies too
You should switch to an AI-generated avatar.
Because I like people reading my posts in Eder's voice.
 
Joined
Dec 24, 2018
Messages
1,788
I've written quite a few posts on this very forum about various types of art, be it of the modern degenerate kind or otherwise. I'd venture a guess that I know more about art than you do and I certainly appreciate it enough to not want it replaced and even regurgitated by AI generated facsimiles. Even if it were true that we don't get anything good nowadays, the decimation of paying jobs for artists may lead to us not having anything NEW worth looking at ever again. Many of the most recognisable and best works of art were commissioned and while it is certain that painters won't disappear there will be fewer of them and most of the "art" will be supplanted by output and trapped in an endless cycle of repeating patterns and styles drawn from digital noise.

As for artists of formidable skill, Giovanni Gasparo comes to mind even if I don't really like most of his paintings he definitely is a talented painter. And on top of that he causes a lot of drama among progressive types, so there's also that. I don't know if he is better than Riepin but you don't know that either so it's fine.

I'll take that as an admission that the good art is already made.

Oh yes, writing a prompt (there are already generators for those) and making a napkin doodle is extremely taxing. The problem is you're not creating a visible image, it's only a result. As far as the amount of skill is required this is exactly like giving a commission to an artist. You describe what you want, make a doodle and ask him nicely to make it. It's not YOUR creativity realised, because you didn't create shite.
It's more your creativity than paying some artist to make the art for you.

Why do you spend time programming and trying to compose music? They're already making generators for both of these "mechanical skills". Especially the music seems to be advancing rapidly. If painting is to be considered as a work of "art" it has to have an artist who painted it. As for the rest, like I said before, you're just commissioning an artwork. Instead of an artist a script generates it. You're not the creator, you're not an artist and since the image does not have an author who used his skills to make it's not art. Having said that, I do not deny that it may look very compelling and I do not deny it will be useful. What I do claim is that it will lead the decline of the arts even further as droves of completely unskilled, tasteless and downright incompetent "idea guys" will flock to these tools and shit out industrial levels of absolute drivel.

Because doing it by hand affords me the precision I want (the same reason I don't just use Unity), particularly for elements of the engine that need to be very aggressively parallelized and tied closely to the way the game works. Copilot can't do that. Similarly I want to be able to have the exact music I want. The same with art, really, which is something you're apparently too simpleminded to understand - hand-made art will always retain a niche. But for my particular genre I don't require that level of precision for most art elements other than UI and flags (and even UI is kind of iffy), hence when I get to the stage where I'll need things like portraits for generals/rulers or landscape images for tiles, AI art will be the way to go. And that will be the case for a lot of games in the near future.

Sure, devaluation of creative skills or the so-called "democratization" of jobs previously requiring a solid base of knowledge and practice, devaluation of art, creation of a closed cycle of AI generated nonsense, the potential death of that middle-tier art market, rise in the kitschy garbage because most people simply have no bloody taste. The last part sounds pretty long-nose-small-hat and reeks of entitlement. You want free art so to hell with skill (that particular skill you don't want to learn of course, not the ones you already know), to hell with art (no potential Riepins in the future for you, but then again you probably know the guy because he's popular in prompts so it's no skin outta your hooked nose) in other words to hell with everything that does not serve your particular need in that given moment. Like I said, idiotic, ignorant and shortsighted. And so very modern unfortunately.

Of course I see the benefits of these generators, I use them myself. But I also see these absolute pillocks coming out of the woodwork and touting themselves as artists because they plonk sentences into a textbox. Proper artists are mostly an obnoxious bunch but they do have a few skills to back that up. These AI touting cunts have as much skill as a hipster in a slam poetry competition, if not less than that. Being uncritical of these image generators makes as much sense as putting them in only negative light. It's a tool and it will be used but it does not elevate anyone above their meager skill and it brings about a set of problems whole industires will have to contend with, because soon 3D modelling will be obsolete, programming will be heavily assisted at least, prototyping, post-production, translation and many other job niches will be cut down. As companies are concerned it's fantastic, more shekels in the pocket but I do not envy the people in these sectors. Most of them are not journos who deserve to loose their jobs.

You know what's jewish? Being such a rent-seeking parasite that you squeal in terror when a new technology renders unto the masses the ability to get a service you were previously charging for, for free. Guess you'll have to find another stone to wring blood out of, Moshe.
 

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