Fallout Is Fallout: New Vegas a worthy Fallout game?

[Repulsive]

Fallout: New Vegas, is the best Fallout even with the game engine and label that it's published by Bethesda.

Anything can look amazing with the best conditions, but New Vegas is the best despite being in less than favorable conditions.

Seeing this topic makes me want to play it again soon.

It's average at best and no where near a good Fallout game. A fun spinoff of the franchise like tactics was, maybe, but not a good Fallout game.

 

[Gangrelrumbler]

Even if AP combat was mediocre it was more complex than running backwards and shooting in the general direction of the enemy. In fact I struggle to think about a single mainstream FPS/TPS with worse combat.

The combat in AP is not mediocre, is awful. F:NV combat is also bad, but not that bad. The difference between the two lies in moment to moment gameplay. Playing AP feels like playing a game whose developers tried to implement the basic gameplay of a popamole game, but failed. Nothing works. While playing F:NV feels like playing a simplistic, but functional, shooter. Of course, F:NV has other redeeming qualities that makes you endure its bad combat. Instead of walking across linear corridors filled with brain dead guards you can explore a huge world to shoot bandits, soldiers, insects, robots, deathclaws, etc. And I’m not even considering the perks, the absence of horrible time-wasting minigames, etc.

I had the opposite impression. AP feels like a budget shooter made by people who don't really give a shit, while NW feels like a game made by monkeys who heard about these "FPS shooters" from a friend but never actually played one.

 

[Lemming42]

It's much more of an action game than a role playing game. The quests pretty much all consisted of kill & fetch/kill, as for role playing, very few quests had an outcome of your making, were extremely linear and at the very best they were either A or B choices which had little or no affect on the world, besides for joining a faction. Game was fun, I liked the voice acting and had some memorable characters but has less than an ounce of what made the original games great.

This description doesn't describe my experience with NV at all. Many quests have more outcomes than 1/2 quests did (remember, the originals had a lot of quests like the guy in the Hub who makes you go kill raiders at his farm that were completely linear), and in no way could most of the quests be called fetch/kill quests, especially given that about 95% of them can be completed with absolutely no killing or combat. It seems like non-combat skills are checked in quests and dialogue more than they were in the originals, too.

Did you play NV more than once? If you go through it again in a totally different way with a different build, the variation and reactivity the game allows should start to reveal itself.

 

[Sigourn]

Any sort of UI would get the job done. But there are UIs that get it done well and are meant for civilized people who want GUIs optimized for civilized PC use, and then the shitty console port UIs made for savages who use controllers and are not smart enough to be civilized.

I said it early in this thread: the DarnUI literally changes how big the fonts are (and the fonts used), and it makes the UI much better to look at.

You are tallking as if the UI is a mess that simply doesn't work in any way or form.

Is it perfect? No, but it's not a piece of shit either.

If this isn't instantly apparent and obvious to you, and you really needed it to be explained, guess what group you belong to? Now you reply with Yabba Dabba Doo bleatings, ugga booga et al, and this will be confirmed and like most savages you are probably happy being a dumb animal because ignorance is bliss and being civilized enough to fit into a modern society with manners, tact, common courtesy, thinking, reasoning, considering others, etc, is just too much for all your children, retards, and monkey savages to handle.

Yabba Dabba Go Fuck Yourself.

 

[Excidium II]

I said it early in this thread: the DarnUI literally changes how big the fonts are (and the fonts used), and it makes the UI much better to look at.

Too bad the fonts chosen are ugly and unfitting as fuck for the post-apo western feel of the game.

I tried using a custom font pack but the fonts have to be the exact size or they get cut off so I couldn't be arsed.

 

[Lurker King]

I had the opposite impression. AP feels like a budget shooter made by people who don't really give a shit, while NW feels like a game made by monkeys who heard about these "FPS shooters" from a friend but never actually played one.

It is curious that we are having this discussion because it is arguable that the development of FN:V hurt the development on AP. I’m saying this because I remember Avellone mentioning in a recent interview that he took the lead of AP because nobody at Obsidian wanted the responsibility and the game was a mess. At the time everyone wanted to work at F:NV. The difference shows. AP tried some different things with dialogues and has good reactivity, but on the rest, it falls apart.

 

[Sigourn]

I said it early in this thread: the DarnUI literally changes how big the fonts are (and the fonts used), and it makes the UI much better to look at.

Too bad the fonts chosen are ugly and unfitting as fuck for the post-apo western feel of the game.

I tried using a custom font pack but the fonts have to be the exact size or they get cut off so I couldn't be arsed.

The default fonts are ugly as fuck too, mate. At least these don't look as ugly. The originals are some Comic Sans shit.

 

[Repulsive]

It's much more of an action game than a role playing game. The quests pretty much all consisted of kill & fetch/kill, as for role playing, very few quests had an outcome of your making, were extremely linear and at the very best they were either A or B choices which had little or no affect on the world, besides for joining a faction. Game was fun, I liked the voice acting and had some memorable characters but has less than an ounce of what made the original games great.

This description doesn't describe my experience with NV at all. Many quests have more outcomes than 1/2 quests did (remember, the originals had a lot of quests like the guy in the Hub who makes you go kill raiders at his farm that were completely linear), and in no way could most of the quests be called fetch/kill quests, especially given that about 95% of them can be completed with absolutely no killing or combat. It seems like non-combat skills are checked in quests and dialogue more than they were in the originals, too.

Did you play NV more than once? If you go through it again in a totally different way with a different build, the variation and reactivity the game allows should start to reveal itself.

My first play through of Vegas clocked in at over 200 hours and finished it 2 times after. The role playing felt very vague, the biggest consequence I had on all playthroughs combined was accidentally blowing up up the NCR base in the beginning and having the odd group tracking me down every now and again. More choices and outcomes than Fallout 1 or 2? I suggest you play those or if you have, again, there were sometimes 4 or 5 ways of completing a quest. 95% of the 'choices' in New Vegas have the same outcome in any case. Most are illusion. Not a good RPG, it's a average shooter with a fun story and has better writing than Bethesturd games.

 

[Tigranes]

FNV definitively has more ways of manipulating a situation and making different choices than F1/2 on the whole, and all three are a few miles ahead of everybody else along with the likes of AOD. The NCR 'diplomacy' stuff in later game is a good example of something that many players can never tell existed at all.

 

[Lemming42]

My first play through of Vegas clocked in at over 200 hours and finished it 2 times after. The role playing felt very vague, the biggest consequence I had on all playthroughs combined was accidentally blowing up up the NCR base in the beginning and having the odd group tracking me down every now and again. More choices and outcomes than Fallout 1 or 2? I suggest you play those or if you have, again, there were sometimes 4 or 5 ways of completing a quest. 95% of the 'choices' in New Vegas have the same outcome in any case. Most are illusion. Not a good RPG, it's a average shooter with a fun story and has better writing than Bethesturd games.

I assure you I've played 1, 2 and NV to the point of exhaustion. 3 as well, actually, because my pain threshold is high.

It seems like you're overstating how much reactivity Fallout has and understating how much NV has. Since I have some time to kill, let's take some Fallout quests:
-Save Tandi - basically has two outcomes. You peacefully get Tandi back (3 ways to do this, 4 if you include the ghost thing), or you kill everyone.

-Save Shitty Sands from scorpions - One outcome, two ways to do it (blow them up or shoot them). No lasting effect on the game, as far as I remember, other than curing the dude of scorp poisoning.

-The entire Junktown quest - Two outcomes (help Gizmo or help Killian), neither of which really get acknowledged by the game (everyone talking about how scared they are of Gizmo when he's been dead for weeks). There's 4 ways to do it that I can think of - kill Killian, kill Gizmo, talk to Killian and then kill Gizmo, or refuse to help and get put in jail.

-Find out what happened to the missing caravans. Only one outcome (you find out about the mutants and meet the deathclaw), and only one way to do it (talk to Harold, kill the Deathclaw). No lasting effect on the game.

-Save the slaves from the raiders. Only one outcome and one way to get it - kill everyone.

-Clear the dude's farm of raiders. One outcome, one way to do it. No lasting effect on the game.

-Stop the Skulz. Three outcomes (they end up dead, they end up in jail, or you join them), four ways I can think of to do it.

-Get the Water Chip from Necropolis. Two outcomes (fix the pump or don't), two ways to do it.

-The Cathedral and Mariposa, both of which are probably the best parts of the game. Only one outcome (not counting joining the mutants), but about a trillion ways to get there.

-Join the BoS. One way to do it.

Let's take some NV quests. Note that almost everything has a lasting impact, however minor, thanks to the reputation system:
-Goodsprings. Two outcomes (help the town or help the Powder Gangers), two ways to reach it, with one of those ways featuring a wealth of dialogue skill-checks to give you items and allies. Has a lasting effect if you kill the Powder Ganger leader yourself, as your reputation deteriorates to the point where you'll be ambushed on the way to Primm. Also, the questgiver can die in the battle, which means you can't get your reward and you miss an encounter with him later on.

-Beyond the Beef. Four outcomes that I can think of, a ridiculous amount of ways to reach them. No lasting effect on the game, unless you turn the White Gloves into cannibals and then side with Mr House.

-Boulder City. Three outcomes (Khans leave peacefully, Khans die, Khans escape violently), five ways to achieve them, and the bonus element of two hostages who can live or die depending on your actions. No lasting effect except reputation boost/loss with NCR and Khans.

-Come Fly With Me (i hate this fucking quest). Three outcomes (the rockets launch, the rockets blow up, or you kill everyone), three ways to do it.

-Great Khans. Three outcomes (Papa is leader, someone else is leader, or you kill everyone), a bunch of ways to get them: http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Oh_My_Papa Has a lasting effect and changes the final quest.

-The White Wash. This is another pretty complex one, so I'll just link the wiki article: http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/The_White_Wash If you expand the quick walkthrough, it lists a lot of the available routes and outcomes.

-The entire main quest.

-GI Blues. Two outcomes (one of which is a bad ending which you can easily achieve by mistake, which I think is a good thing), a bunch of ways to get them with a lot of speech checks on the way.

If it seems like I'm cherry-picking, feel free to check out any NV quest and any Fallout quest at random on the Fallout wiki and compare them.

 

[Repulsive]

My first play through of Vegas clocked in at over 200 hours and finished it 2 times after. The role playing felt very vague, the biggest consequence I had on all playthroughs combined was accidentally blowing up up the NCR base in the beginning and having the odd group tracking me down every now and again. More choices and outcomes than Fallout 1 or 2? I suggest you play those or if you have, again, there were sometimes 4 or 5 ways of completing a quest. 95% of the 'choices' in New Vegas have the same outcome in any case. Most are illusion. Not a good RPG, it's a average shooter with a fun story and has better writing than Bethesturd games.

I assure you I've played 1, 2 and NV to the point of exhaustion. 3 as well, actually, because my pain threshold is high.

It seems like you're overstating how much reactivity Fallout has and understating how much NV has. Since I have some time to kill, let's take some Fallout quests:
-Save Tandi - basically has two outcomes. You peacefully get Tandi back (3 ways to do this, 4 if you include the ghost thing), or you kill everyone.

-Save Shitty Sands from scorpions - One outcome, two ways to do it (blow them up or shoot them). No lasting effect on the game, as far as I remember, other than curing the dude of scorp poisoning.

-The entire Junktown quest - Two outcomes (help Gizmo or help Killian), neither of which really get acknowledged by the game (everyone talking about how scared they are of Gizmo when he's been dead for weeks). There's 4 ways to do it that I can think of - kill Killian, kill Gizmo, talk to Killian and then kill Gizmo, or refuse to help and get put in jail.

-Find out what happened to the missing caravans. Only one outcome (you find out about the mutants and meet the deathclaw), and only one way to do it (talk to Harold, kill the Deathclaw). No lasting effect on the game.

-Save the slaves from the raiders. Only one outcome and one way to get it - kill everyone.

-Clear the dude's farm of raiders. One outcome, one way to do it. No lasting effect on the game.

-Stop the Skulz. Three outcomes (they end up dead, they end up in jail, or you join them), four ways I can think of to do it.

-Get the Water Chip from Necropolis. Two outcomes (fix the pump or don't), two ways to do it.

-The Cathedral and Mariposa, both of which are probably the best parts of the game. Only one outcome (not counting joining the mutants), but about a trillion ways to get there.

-Join the BoS. One way to do it.

Let's take some NV quests. Note that almost everything has a lasting impact, however minor, thanks to the reputation system:
-Goodsprings. Two outcomes (help the town or help the Powder Gangers), two ways to reach it, with one of those ways featuring a wealth of dialogue skill-checks to give you items and allies. Has a lasting effect if you kill the Powder Ganger leader yourself, as your reputation deteriorates to the point where you'll be ambushed on the way to Primm. Also, the questgiver can die in the battle, which means you can't get your reward and you miss an encounter with him later on.

-Beyond the Beef. Four outcomes that I can think of, a ridiculous amount of ways to reach them. No lasting effect on the game, unless you turn the White Gloves into cannibals and then side with Mr House.

-Boulder City. Three outcomes (Khans leave peacefully, Khans die, Khans escape violently), five ways to achieve them, and the bonus element of two hostages who can live or die depending on your actions. No lasting effect except reputation boost/loss with NCR and Khans.

-Come Fly With Me (i hate this fucking quest). Three outcomes (the rockets launch, the rockets blow up, or you kill everyone), three ways to do it.

-Great Khans. Three outcomes (Papa is leader, someone else is leader, or you kill everyone), a bunch of ways to get them: http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Oh_My_Papa Has a lasting effect and changes the final quest.

-The White Wash. This is another pretty complex one, so I'll just link the wiki article: http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/The_White_Wash If you expand the quick walkthrough, it lists a lot of the available routes and outcomes.

-The entire main quest.

-GI Blues. Two outcomes (one of which is a bad ending which you can easily achieve by mistake, which I think is a good thing), a bunch of ways to get them with a lot of speech checks on the way.

If it seems like I'm cherry-picking, feel free to check out any NV quest and any Fallout quest at random on the Fallout wiki and compare them.

Fallout 1 was meant to be a basic RPG game, it's meant to be completed in 20 hours or less + multiple playthroughs with different classes along with making different choices, it was an immersive experience that you explored the ethics of a believable post nuclear world, it was less of a game and more of an experience. The only real Role Playing in Vegas came from choosing a faction, the very odd missions that offered A or B choices to make which were fetch/kill and not mentioning the rest of the flaws with Vegas. It suffered greatly from that abomination Fallout 3 and Bethesda in my opinion, regardless it is one of the few games I found playable in the last decade.

 

[Tigranes]

Given that you start the game with choices changing quest outcomes and faction allegiances at Goodsprings, the prison thing, and the rocket area, it sounds like you have a completely arbitrary standard that passes what FO1 does as 'choice' and what FNV does as 'not choice'. Meh.

 

[Lemming42]

Fallout 1 was meant to be a basic RPG game, it's meant to be completed in 20 hours or less + multiple playthroughs with different classes along with making different choices, it was an immersive experience that you explored the ethics of a believable post nuclear world

New Vegas follows the same concept, only without the 20 hours part. I mean, the entire conflict between the factions that forms the main quest is pretty much the most evident example of Tim Cain's "ethics of a post-nuclear world" idea, and the majority of sidequests force you to choose between moral or ideological standpoints. It invites multiple playthroughs even moreso than Fallout did thanks to the structure of the main quest.

The only real Role Playing in Vegas came from choosing a faction, the very odd missions that offered A or B choices to make which were fetch/kill and not mentioning the rest of the flaws with Vegas.

They weren't fetch/kill quests, though. I just typed out a big list of examples, and there's many more. That "95% of quests can be completed without combat" line I said earlier is an actual provable fact, there's a dude on YouTube who famously played through the whole game without killing anyone and he was able to complete all but about 6 quests. I've done it myself, too: http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/index.php?threads/screenshot-thread.72409/page-424#post-3366396

 

[Repulsive]

Fallout 1 was meant to be a basic RPG game, it's meant to be completed in 20 hours or less + multiple playthroughs with different classes along with making different choices, it was an immersive experience that you explored the ethics of a believable post nuclear world

New Vegas follows the same concept, only without the 20 hours part. I mean, the entire conflict between the factions that forms the main quest is pretty much the most evident example of Tim Cain's "ethics of a post-nuclear world" idea, and the majority of sidequests force you to choose between moral or ideological standpoints. It invites multiple playthroughs even moreso than Fallout did thanks to the structure of the main quest.

The only real Role Playing in Vegas came from choosing a faction, the very odd missions that offered A or B choices to make which were fetch/kill and not mentioning the rest of the flaws with Vegas.

They weren't fetch/kill quests, though. I just typed out a big list of examples, and there's many more. That "95% of quests can be completed without combat" line I said earlier is an actual provable fact, there's a dude on YouTube who famously played through the whole game without killing anyone and he was able to complete all but about 6 quests. I've done it myself, too: http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/index.php?threads/screenshot-thread.72409/page-424#post-3366396

I've yet to take the evil path, will give that a shot.

 

[Repulsive]

Given that you start the game with choices changing quest outcomes and faction allegiances at Goodsprings, the prison thing, and the rocket area, it sounds like you have a completely arbitrary standard that passes what FO1 does as 'choice' and what FNV does as 'not choice'. Meh.

Yeah, be a douchebag or don't be a douchebag, nothing inbetween, my experience with the 'role playing' of NV.

 

[Lurker King]

FNV definitively has more ways of manipulating a situation and making different choices than F1/2 on the whole, and all three are a few miles ahead of everybody else along with the likes of AOD.

Teron alone has more reactivity than FO, FO2 and F:NV combined. Of course, it is really easy to ignore most of the roleplaying opportunities and hidden content because AoD doesn’t shove the missing opportunities on your face like the FOs. There is no hand-holding. The skill and stat checks themselves have skill and stat checks requirements to appear.

 

[Lurker King]

Yeah, be a douchebag or don't be a douchebag, nothing inbetween, my experience with the 'role playing' of NV.

FO2 and F:NV both have an indecent amount of fetch quests. One additional problem with F:NV is that you have many forced role-laying opportunities that are there just so that the developers can say that the player have more choices. Most of them feel like playing a mini linear game to have two choices of endings that will not be acknowledged by the game. Of course, you can endure all this fake reactivity because there are some few big choices that make the game shine, and because the factions and some characters are believable. Nothing even close to the reactivity and realism of AoD, but it is good.

 

[Tigranes]

Lurker King uh.... as in, the Fallouts are miles ahead with the likes of AOD. AOD is obviously the crown jewel here.

I think you have me confused with someone else, given how much Vince cock I have sucked in the last decade.

 

[Repulsive]

Yeah, be a douchebag or don't be a douchebag, nothing inbetween, my experience with the 'role playing' of NV.

FO2 and F:NV both have an indecent amount of fetch quests. One additional problem with F:NV is that you have many forced role-laying opportunities that are there just so that the developers can say that the player have more choices. Most of them feel like playing a mini linear game to have two choices of endings that will not be acknowledged by the game. Of course, you can endure all this fake reactivity because there are some few big choices that make the game shine, and because the factions and some characters are believable. Nothing even close to the reactivity and realism of AoD, but it is good.

Looking forward to playing AOD man, played 10 hours in early access and loved every damn second of it.

 

[Lurker King]

Lurker King uh.... as in, the Fallouts are miles ahead with the likes of AOD. AOD is obviously the crown jewel here.

I think you have me confused with someone else, given how much Vince cock I have sucked in the last decade.

Whoa! Ok then. My bad.

 

[an Administrator]

The entire Junktown quest - Two outcomes (help Gizmo or help Killian), neither of which really get acknowledged by the game (everyone talking about how scared they are of Gizmo when he's been dead for weeks). There's 4 ways to do it that I can think of - kill Killian, kill Gizmo, talk to Killian and then kill Gizmo, or refuse to help and get put in jail.

Also Junktown ending will be screwed if you kill both.

 

[AwesomeButton]

ITT: Roleplaying Ruined by Fonts

 

[Severian Silk]

Fallout: New Vegas is only worth it if you like any kind of art at all.

 

[HansDampf]

I had a good time with New Vegas, but wouldn't recommend it without mods to make the graphics bearable.
Would purists have loved it, if it had been made in a 2D isometric engine with turn-based combat and the exact same story, quests and characters?

 

[Gangrelrumbler]

Given that you start the game with choices changing quest outcomes and faction allegiances at Goodsprings, the prison thing, and the rocket area, it sounds like you have a completely arbitrary standard that passes what FO1 does as 'choice' and what FNV does as 'not choice'. Meh.

Yeah, be a douchebag or don't be a douchebag, nothing inbetween, my experience with the 'role playing' of NV.

How is it any different from Fallout 1? What would count for "inbetween"?