Fallout Is Fallout: New Vegas a worthy Fallout game?

[aweigh]

wtf is this the early 2000's? someone's asking for physics? facepalm gif

 

[Doctor Sbaitso]

Physics in 1992.

 

[Jimmious]

I would prefer "static boring shit" than "physics" like in the new FOs any day.

Stavrophore I'm not sure you found the right forum for you

 

[Caleb462]

The fallout 2 hate I read around here (and a few other places, but mostly here) always takes me aback a little bit. Yeah, its over the top and the developers sacrificed the fascinatingly bleak tone and atmosphere of the original for something altogether different. But you know what? Recreating the experience of the first was never going to happen, by its very nature that was a one off thing, and the 'zaniness' of FO2 is to me pretty amusing for the most part even if some of it falls flat. The overall atmosphere becomes way different than FO1, but it still works, very successfully creating the feeling of a huge, deep and living world in which you never know what you might walk in to next, what you might have to do, who you might meet, etc. Sure you might have to relax your expectations of verisimilitude to a certain degree to really get the most out of it, but the game is deliciously reactive, and for exploration lovers FO2 is beyond incredible.

All that granted, fuck the temple of trials.

 

[Somberlain]

I don't think anyone here hates Fallout 2, just a few aspects of it. But then again, Codex has this absurd and borderline delusional level of Fallout 1 (& 2) worship so I guess almost any criticism is seen as hate and blasphemy.

 

[Caleb462]

There are definitely some folks who, if they don't exactly hate it, are highly critical of it and view FO1 as the only 'good' Fallout.

 

[Black Angel]

But you know what? Recreating the experience of the first was never going to happen, by its very nature that was a one off thing

Only because Tim Cain left halfway through the development of Fallout 2. Refer to Chris Avellone's post regarding F2 being a 'mishandled managerial mess' in page 4. I'm sure as hell should Tim Cain stayed and lead the ship, F2 would've been a more worthy sequel to Fallout 2.

Having said that, I generally agree with a view saying how New Vegas was a more return to roots, being closer to F1 than F2 could ever be, but the fact that it was held back by Beth's shitty engine, Beth's shitty design decision, and having to appeal to console audiences and Bethestards severely held back New Vegas from actually being able to live up to the original.

 

[TNO]

I think NV is on par and may beat FO2. It is certainly miles ahead of FO3/4, and not quite up to FO1.

It was pretty buggy on release, and the engine just wasn't up to it when it came to simulating large crowded environment (e.g. the strip with ~12 people on the street). The first person shooting isn't that great, VATS remains an IWIN button, and the balance is pretty screwy (with all the expansions I had literally maxed out *every skill* by the engame).

That said, very uneven games are hardly absent from the Codex Pantheon (PS:T has rubbish combat, Arcarum, FO1 was pretty 1dimensional too). It shines in many respects:

1. It generally hits the sweet spot between the zany buck rogers-y stuff and the post-apoc grimdark FO1 pulled off so well - FO2 was much weaker in this regard, and Bethesda's efforts beneath contempt.
2. It excelled at environmental story telling, generally each of the vaults giving their own short story you gradually uncovered by discovering their innards.
3. It was broadly well written with nice use of various bits of americana.
4. It had an understandable and intrumentally rational (although far from morally acceptable) primary antagonist, and Caesar was an interesting character.
5. Large, multistage reactive quests with oodles of C&C.
6. A good attempt to put together an organic open world with plausible interactions between groups and individuals.

I wrote a review of NV which was pretty glowing (and consequently excoriated by the Codex Hivemind). I basically stand behind every word, and Im pretty sure posterity will vindicate my judgement (as this poll sort of does already).

 

[aweigh]

personally i find Arcanum downright unplayable. the codex hive mind is not something that important. it's a touchstone but, like a drunk one.

 

[Somberlain]

Codex is full of storyfags and C&C fags so it makes perfect sense that Codex hive mind loves games with shit gameplay.

 

[Lurker King]

personally i find Arcanum downright unplayable.

 

[Jazz_]

personally i find Arcanum downright unplayable. the codex hive mind is not something that important. it's a touchstone but, like a drunk one.

I liked Arcanum more than FO1 and FO2, but then again I have always found post-apocalyptic wasteland settings quite boring. But if anything the first two FO enjoy an islamic level of worship in here, they are the Allah of the Codex, au contraire Arcanum is shat on quite often, you find plenty of threads like this littering the codex: http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/inde...r-played-emphasis-on-game-and-not-rpg.107495/

 

[aweigh]

i hesitated posting that anyway simply because i've had discussions like this many times. i'm a combatfag 100%.

story and characters and false choice and consequence (i.e. choose your own adventure R.L. Stein type of C and C which is what the codex loves but is not real C&C which can only emerge from gameplay); i do not care that much for any of those things.

i play RPGs for their gameplay.

 

[Declinator]

i hesitated posting that anyway simply because i've had discussions like this many times. i'm a combatfag 100%.

story and characters and false choice and consequence (i.e. choose your own adventure R.L. Stein type of C and C which is what the codex loves but is not real C&C which can only emerge from gameplay); i do not care that much for any of those things.

i play RPGs for their gameplay.

Making those (story/dialogue etc.) choices is gameplay though.

 

[Black Angel]

i hesitated posting that anyway simply because i've had discussions like this many times. i'm a combatfag 100%.

....

i play RPGs for their gameplay.

So combat = gameplay?

 

[an Administrator]

i hesitated posting that anyway simply because i've had discussions like this many times. i'm a combatfag 100%.

....

i play RPGs for their gameplay.

So combat = gameplay?

Combat is a big part of gameplay since in most RPGs you often progress through fighting mobs.

 

[aweigh]

here is the most recent thread were i asked the codex hivemind to discuss false C&C versus gameplay mechanics: http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/inde...n-with-c-c-originate-was-it-fallout-1.109342/

 

[Repulsive]

It's a fine spin off of the franchise and can respect it a lot more seeing as it doesn't have a numeric value at the end of it's title although no where near the level of FO 1 or 2.

 

[Caleb462]

But you know what? Recreating the experience of the first was never going to happen, by its very nature that was a one off thing

Only because Tim Cain left halfway through the development of Fallout 2. Refer to Chris Avellone's post regarding F2 being a 'mishandled managerial mess' in page 4. I'm sure as hell should Tim Cain stayed and lead the ship, F2 would've been a more worthy sequel to Fallout 2..

Possibly, we will never know. It would have probably strayed less from the tone of the original sure. I'm uncertain whether that would have necessarily made a better game. And 'managerial mess' doesn't always mean that mess negatively impacts the final product. There are a number of classic films, for instance, known for being clusterfucks during production but being great films in spite of (or sometimes because of?) the problems during production. Apocalypse Now comes to mind.

In regards to the Arcanum discussion in this thread - Arcanum is all downhill after the character creation screen, but it sure is a hell of a character creation screen.

 

[Goral]

In regards to the Arcanum discussion in this thread - Arcanum is all downhill after the character creation screen, but it sure is a hell of a character creation screen.

No it's not, it's awesome from start to finish. I recommend reading Neanderthal 's posts in this thread: http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/index.php?threads/arcanum-worth-a-punt.101297/

 

[Caleb462]

In regards to the Arcanum discussion in this thread - Arcanum is all downhill after the character creation screen, but it sure is a hell of a character creation screen.

No it's not, it's awesome from start to finish. I recommend reading Neanderthal 's posts in this thread: http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/index.php?threads/arcanum-worth-a-punt.101297/

I've read the thread before, I have a post in that thread expressing the same opinion I posted earlier.

Look I get why some of you guys love Arcanum. There is a lot to love in it. Doesn't change the fact that for me personally, every time I've started a playthrough I got more enjoyment out of creating a character than I did out of anything that follows. I may eventually give it yet another shot.

 

[Goral]

I may eventually give it yet another shot.

If you'll ever change your opinion about it share your secret with Chris Avellone because it seems that he has a similar view on this game as you.

 

[Gangrelrumbler]

The fallout 2 hate I read around here (and a few other places, but mostly here) always takes me aback a little bit. Yeah, its over the top and the developers sacrificed the fascinatingly bleak tone and atmosphere of the original for something altogether different. But you know what? Recreating the experience of the first was never going to happen, by its very nature that was a one off thing, and the 'zaniness' of FO2 is to me pretty amusing for the most part even if some of it falls flat. The overall atmosphere becomes way different than FO1, but it still works, very successfully creating the feeling of a huge, deep and living world in which you never know what you might walk in to next, what you might have to do, who you might meet, etc. Sure you might have to relax your expectations of verisimilitude to a certain degree to really get the most out of it, but the game is deliciously reactive, and for exploration lovers FO2 is beyond incredible.

All that granted, fuck the temple of trials.

People here don't actually hate Fallout 2, it's third best liked RPG of all time according to a poll held in 2014 and I doubt that much changed since then. The reason people discuss the flaws of F2 is because they limit the enjoyment of otherwise great RPG. Games Codex really despise are quickly forgotten. Like Fallout 3 and Oblivion.

 

[TheSlapper55X]

never finished Arcanum due to reload addiction and trying out different builds. Also I wasnt sure if I was playing correctly or brute forcing my through bugs or the shitty combat.

 

[Sigourn]

My Arcanum experience is that of playing the game for a lot of hours, non-stop, only to stop playing and thinking to myself "Am I having fun?".