Is there any value in allowing characters to walk rather than run in an isometric RPG?

[Sigourn]

Shadowrun showed Jake Armitage sitting in a subway car as the city went by.

This reminds me of Pokémon Gold and Silver.

And thank you, your examples are exactly what I mean. If you want me to use your "fast traveling but not really" systems, then at least make them immersive. Else, convenience beats inconvenience every day of the week.

 

[Corbin Dallas Multipass]

It's funny how he, as the thread starter, doesn't seem to be interested in actually backing up his position any longer, however.

You've read his posts before, right?

I mean, the moment someone decided that wanting to not wait to watch extended walking animations showed a weakness of character any possibility of useful discussion was over. Zorba and Crispy's weird religious devotion to boredom isn't something you can argue. OK, some people say Jesus was the messiah, some people say spending half an hour watching animations play between moments of gameplay makes you a better person, that's nice.

Now, it's all a bit silly to me, as I'd think you true blue RPG lovers would remember that in pen and paper RPGs, the things we wish CRPGs could more faithfully replicate (Don't we?) the DM rarely, if ever, spends the time to describe in detail the individual steps your party takes on the way to a destination (well a decent DM at least). Obviously you skip over the pointless boring stuff. That doesn't mean you don't still take several rounds to sneak up on a troll, as that's not the boring stuff. And a good DM could describe your character's traipse through a safe wooded glade in a very interesting manner, regardless of how fast the character's gaits were while they performed this traipse.

Now, I realize we're a bunch of internet assholes arguing our subjective opinions are somehow actually objective truth, but have you considered that I'm actually the only one who is right about that opinion, which is in fact objective truth, as I just detailed? And since Rusty Shackleford isn't here waving his ass around like a moron, unlike some people, perhaps he's the ultimate winner of the thread after all?

Sure and if you actually read the replies in this thread, you'll notice that some aren't very useful on either side and others bring up interesting mechanical considerations beyond immersion or the proper way to play a game.

Really, my point is that although Rusty has some interesting posts, he also has a tendency to have a bunch of dumb lolposts that he just leaves as is to try and irritate whoever bothers reading it. Kind of like yours, as far as I can tell.

I would never. NEVER. EVER. EVAR. EEVVVEERRR. E.V.E.R. do such a thing. Ever. Never ever would I ever post something just for the theoretical butthurt it may or may not cause people I don't even know. How you, a person of taste and distinction, could ever. EVER. E.V.E.R. EEEEVVVVVEEERRRRRR accuse me of that is beyond the pale.

Like, why would I just come in here and insinuate some people seem to just like having their time wasted. How. Could. I? I would never ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever do that. Waste a person's time I mean. I can't even imagine doing such a thing. And for what benefit sir? Lols? A hearty chuckle? The momentary feeling of life from my ordinarily black stone heart?

Like, what are you even saying? Are you saying, perhaps, that I would try to just get under the skin of someone rather than engage thoughtfully in debate with them, even if I thought they were perhaps maniacal raving madman who enjoyed having their time wasted? Like, saying that maybe they're trying to increase their immersion in this very thread by making not so good arguments just to drag out the whole thing? What? For the sake of immersion?

I would NEVER
EVER
EVER
EEEVVVVEEERRR
do a thing like that.

 

[Corbin Dallas Multipass]

Sorry, why are some of you talking about slow walking in the Underrail? You do know that there is a speed-up option that can speed up movement several times if you want? Right? And even without it, walking per se wasn't that slow when wearing some + speed items, and there were a few. And on top of that there is fast travel in this game. Stealth otoh, that is or was painfully slow and worse is that you wan't to do it a lot.
Underrail (with speed up options) is an example of how indie crpgs can do it well. Make character walk = LARPERs are happy, but add speed up options = everyone who doesn't like to look at grass grow in real time is happy too.

This is the main use and it actually contributes to gameplay instead of just being LARPer crap. Yes, you should be able to walk, and yes, that should sometimes be a necessity while exploring in order to avoid danger.

Agreed. The best option: both walking and running has gameplay uses and the game can afford animations for both. However If there is no gameplay reason to force players to walk and only LARPing as reason, then the hell with it. Some games cannot afford to make two sets of animations. In such case larping should never be the deciding factor.

FYI underrail shipped without that speed up option. The game was greatly improved by speeding up the slow meaningless travel. Why tis almost the very point of this discussion.

 

[Glop_dweller]

The best option: both walking and running has gameplay uses and the game can afford animations for both. However If there is no gameplay reason to force players to walk and only LARPing as reason, then the hell with it. Some games cannot afford to make two sets of animations. In such case larping should never be the deciding factor.

Just to mention it... but the initial post [where this started] was only that the InXile dev did not see the merit of having a walk state in an RPG, and the implications from that; not the walking itself per se.

_______________

About Morrowind.... There was this travel mod that somebody [Abot?] went to a lot of effort to make. It is one that I'd personally never use (at least not more than once) unless it offered the potential for encounters, and or the potential to spot useful details from a vantage normally impossible in the game; like seeing an item stash, or seeing an obscured cave entrance...ideally with the option to jump off the Stilt Strider.

Spoiler

 

[Serus]

Sorry, why are some of you talking about slow walking in the Underrail? You do know that there is a speed-up option that can speed up movement several times if you want? Right? And even without it, walking per se wasn't that slow when wearing some + speed items, and there were a few. And on top of that there is fast travel in this game. Stealth otoh, that is or was painfully slow and worse is that you wan't to do it a lot.
Underrail (with speed up options) is an example of how indie crpgs can do it well. Make character walk = LARPERs are happy, but add speed up options = everyone who doesn't like to look at grass grow in real time is happy too.

This is the main use and it actually contributes to gameplay instead of just being LARPer crap. Yes, you should be able to walk, and yes, that should sometimes be a necessity while exploring in order to avoid danger.

Agreed. The best option: both walking and running has gameplay uses and the game can afford animations for both. However If there is no gameplay reason to force players to walk and only LARPing as reason, then the hell with it. Some games cannot afford to make two sets of animations. In such case larping should never be the deciding factor.

FYI underrail shipped without that speed up option. The game was greatly improved by speeding up the slow meaningless travel. Why tis almost the very point of this discussion.

FYI? Thank you sherlock, the "was" was there for a reason. I played Underrail for the first time soon after it came out. The slow walking speed was always a bit overstated, as I said. There are games with similar walking speed. Don't get me wrong, it is a clear improvement still but the game had fast travel options even before that and +speed items even back then iirc, which made it bearable. The main thing however is that the speed-up thing it's not a walking + running, it's walking + ability to speed up the walking animation which is a different approach than adding running or making running the only option. The best one for indie/simple graphics games I think, should be copied more.

 

[Zombra]

Somebody mentioned Fallout 1. Anybody else remember this from the options menu?

I was one of the freaks who played it wrong. I left the setting on Normal.

 

[Harthwain]

What's funnier is that there's little to gain in Morrowind's planning other than avoiding annoyance. "We've designed an annoying feature just so you can take pride in circumventing its annoying parts" is such a weird flex. Gold is everywhere in Morrowind so it's not like carefully planning out your root makes a big difference.

Not being able to get everywhere at once (and limited travel was part of that) means you had to explore when travel option wasn't available. You call it "an annyoing feature", but for the people back then it was normal that the journey was part of... the journey. Also, if you were to use fast travel in Skyrim you'd miss on various encounters or locations, which further reinforces the exploration argument.

Really, my point is that although Rusty has some interesting posts, he also has a tendency to have a bunch of dumb lolposts that he just leaves as is to try and irritate whoever bothers reading it. Kind of like yours, as far as I can tell.

Rusty is a bit more sophisticated shitposter. But his real crime is the complete inability to admit to a mistake. That's why I put him on my ignore list. If you can't argue in a good faith (whether we agree or disagree) then any discussion is pointless.

Um ... why does it need to be considered carefully? You're talking like there's some huge danger in allowing people to walk in games if they want to. I can see some (dull-minded) devs not comprehending why some people might want it, but to be so cautious of it is odd. What exactly is the downside?

Obviously you can have walking (or fast travel) as an optional thing. What I mean is using walking as part of the gameplay. In that case it has to be considered carefully in order to be meaningful.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

Nobody who wants to move slow for the sake of moving slow is "arguing in good faith", sorry.
Just step away from your computer every few seconds or something instead.

 

[Kaivokz]

Real footage of Rusty playing RPGs:

 

[rusty_shackleford]

Real footage of Rusty playing RPGs:

can you explain what's wrong with being efficient?

 

[Kaivokz]

can you explain what's wrong with being efficient?

Nothing.

I always use the max speed allowable and often times turn off/skip animations unless I think the game is particularly aesthetic; the primary reason I play games is for the interactive elements (tactical + strategic choices or to challenge my reflexes).

An additional reason is that I like to experience many things, so the time I spend playing games inefficiently could be spent reading or working out or hiking or playing a different game, etc.

That said, I don’t think playing 5 games a year > playing 1 game a year in the same amount of time; there’s no inherent “goodness” in playing a higher quantity of games, so I don’t particularly care if anyone else wants to play 1 game a year autistically crawling around every possible inch of the world while I play 5.

I am opposed to the “moving slowly allows you to see hidden items” design, but if a game is designed that way… I’ll just miss the items and move on. If someone enjoys walking as a role play or stylistic choice, it doesn’t affect me; I just won’t use the functionality.

 

[Zombra]

can you explain what's wrong with being efficient?

I did in my first post. The attitude of doing a leisure activity in order to get it over with as soon as possible is stupid. Just don't play games if you don't like being in them. And definitely don't imply that other people are wrong to want to take their time and enjoy them.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

can you explain what's wrong with being efficient?

I did in my first post. The attitude of doing a leisure activity in order to get it over with as soon as possible is stupid. Just don't play games if you don't like being in them. And definitely don't imply that other people are wrong to want to take their time and enjoy them.

You're enjoying it the wrong way.

 

[Nifft Batuff]

One can imagine a reason why the characters are always running. Maybe they are in hurry to take a shit, and the only existing bathroom is after the end game boss fight.

 

[Lord_Potato]

What's wrong with walking?

Americans don't walk IRL. That's why rusty_shackleford complains that he's forced to do it in games

 

[octavius]

[
Did I enjoy that system? No. I certainly enjoyed Morrowind's much worse, as I cursed myself any time I was sent to the opposite ass of the map for yet another trivial quest.

Unless we're talking about the end game, in MW there's always other quests that are closer. So really no need to travel to the other side of the map, unless you get the shakes if you see more than one open quest in your log.

 

[octavius]

Real footage of Rusty playing RPGs:

Rusty must get much fit from all that running.

 

[Nifft Batuff]

Somebody mentioned Fallout 1. Anybody else remember this from the options menu?

I was one of the freaks who played it wrong. I left the setting on Normal.

I used walking as the default too. I just runned when I needed to reach a far destination with no need to explore.
If I rmember correctly, the interesting thing about Fallout 1&2 is that even the moving NPCs have two different behaviours: walking and running. You can find both.

In other games you always run, while NPCs always walk.

 

[holla_cabezas_de_mierda]

...good response from the dev

Ignorant response from the dev. Aside from making an RPG [and hence a PC that cannot walk, and so will act out of character at times], they were also making a followup to Planescape, which even had a quest that required not running.

good response, people who turn on walking in video games just so they can "roleplay" are weirdos

why have moving at all? Why not just press the button and teleport all around? People who don't teleport everywhere and instead use running animations are weirdos....

 

[rusty_shackleford]

...good response from the dev

Ignorant response from the dev. Aside from making an RPG [and hence a PC that cannot walk, and so will act out of character at times], they were also making a followup to Planescape, which even had a quest that required not running.

good response, people who turn on walking in video games just so they can "roleplay" are weirdos

why have moving at all? Why not just press the button and teleport all around? People who don't teleport everywhere and instead use running animations are weirdos....

Because people move, not teleport.
I'm getting the feeling most of you guys are obese and can just barely manage to waddle.

 

[holla_cabezas_de_mierda]

...good response from the dev

Ignorant response from the dev. Aside from making an RPG [and hence a PC that cannot walk, and so will act out of character at times], they were also making a followup to Planescape, which even had a quest that required not running.

good response, people who turn on walking in video games just so they can "roleplay" are weirdos

why have moving at all? Why not just press the button and teleport all around? People who don't teleport everywhere and instead use running animations are weirdos....

Because people move, not teleport.
I'm getting the feeling most of you guys are obese and can just barely manage to waddle.

I mostly use the running animations like almost everyone does, but I think it will lead to bad game design to not have walking remain the primary movement mode a game is designed around....

People become more and more impatient.... whine about how long movies they say they really enjoy watching are..makes no sense....sometimes I think people might be happier if an entire game was just a single D20 roll, if you picked 'hard ironman' difficulty then you would need a 14 or higher to win the game, otherwise you lost. Every button press is the awesome button.

BTW, I played college (junior college) basketball (before transferring to a 4 year school where I did not play), and can still grab the rim with both hands even though I am 51 years old.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

...good response from the dev

Ignorant response from the dev. Aside from making an RPG [and hence a PC that cannot walk, and so will act out of character at times], they were also making a followup to Planescape, which even had a quest that required not running.

good response, people who turn on walking in video games just so they can "roleplay" are weirdos

why have moving at all? Why not just press the button and teleport all around? People who don't teleport everywhere and instead use running animations are weirdos....

Because people move, not teleport.
I'm getting the feeling most of you guys are obese and can just barely manage to waddle.

I mostly use the running animations like almost everyone does, but I think it will lead to bad game design to not have walking remain the primary movement mode a game is designed around....

People become more and more impatient.... whine about how long movies they say they really enjoy watching are..makes no sense....sometimes I think people might be happier if an entire game was just a singl D20 roll, if you picked 'hard' then if you rolled a 14 or higher you win the game, otherwise you lost.

BTW, I played college (junior college) basketball (before transferring to a 4 year school where I did not play), and can still grab the rim with both hands even though I am 51 years old.

Again, nothing is stopping you from just pausing games and doing absolutely nothing for an hour straight to really take in and enjoy it or whatever you guys do when staring at your character doing absolutely nothing.

 

[Alienman]

I like animations, and I do like "tedium" in my games. As I see it, it adds another factor to the decision-making. Having to walk all the way back for a poor reward? Might not be worth it, so just skip it. But for the one with patience, he will be rewarded this way, especially if stuff like this repeat itself. If say harvesting materials don't have any downtime, you might as well harvest everything. But if it comes with accompanying animations, then you have to make a conscious decision if it's worth the time. I'm not saying every game need to be like this, but I really like it in my third/first person RPGs. It sets a clear line between the one that rushes the game, and one that take its time with it.

Personally, I find myself much more immersed if the world respond in realistic ways, instead of you having completed a quest, and suddenly you have the quest reward on your person - seemingly teleported to your backpack from the quest giver.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

I like animations, and I do like "tedium" in my games. As I see it, it adds another factor to the decision-making. Having to walk all the way back for a poor reward? Might not be worth it, so just skip it. But for the one with patience, he will be rewarded this way, especially if stuff like this repeat itself. If say harvesting materials don't have any downtime, you might as well harvest everything. But if it comes with accompanying animations, then you have to make a conscious decision if it's worth the time. I'm not saying every game need to be like this, but I really like it in my third/first person RPGs. It sets a clear line between the one that rushes the game, and one that take its time with it.

Personally, I find myself much more immersed if the world respond in realistic ways, instead of you having completed a quest, and suddenly you have the quest reward on your person - seemingly teleported to your backpack from the quest giver.

Another supporter for my idea of being required to watch your character sleep for 8 hours. I hope we can get this implemented in every new RPG.

If say harvesting materials don't have any downtime, you might as well harvest everything.

The question you should be asking is why your character is picking flowers when it's not appropriate in 99% of games.

 

[Alienman]

Another supporter for my idea of being required to watch your character sleep for 8 hours. I hope we can get this implemented in every new RPG.

Sure, if it last like 10 seconds, and the game has a stamina recovery system through sleep.

The question you should be asking is why your character is picking flowers when it's not appropriate in 99% of games.

For potions? Harvesting could be anything, though. Animal pelts, mining ore, etc.