Is there any value in allowing characters to walk rather than run in an isometric RPG?

[Commissar Draco]

Nuff said.

 

[Zombra]

Being bored spending 20 minutes watching my character walk somewhere with no danger.

Zero people are advocating forcing you to do this.

Such as, reloading the game again because oops, I forgot to press sheathe weapon and now I've aggroed the guards/shopkeepers/whatever.

Jesus christ. Get good. Not stabbing everyone you see really, really isn't that hard. In any game, if you die 10 times in a row to the same incredibly simple thing, it isn't a problem with the game, you just suck.

To be completely honest, I don't think isometric RPGs are the place to go looking for immersive travel to begin with.

Any game which isn't one long action scene can benefit from slower paced moments.

Again, fucking Fallout has walking turned on by default, so in effect you're saying that we shouldn't want or expect iso RPGs to be like Fallout. Go ahead and say out loud that Fallout made a mistake having that option be there at all. Go ahead and say that removing the walking animations would make it a better game. Go ahead.

 

[Harthwain]

In Morrowind this is only partially true. Every single dungeon in Morrowind looks pretty much the same because, from the outside, they are all a "cave door", "tomb door", or Daeric ruin. The inside isn't any better. This leads to many players, often, just wanting to get the walking over with.

Well, I can't say you're objectively wrong here, but the quality of exploration is a separate topic to how Morrowind conducts travel and encourages exploration as such.

 

[Faarbaute]

It would be interesting to hear Vault Dweller's thoughts on this matter, and if similar considerations went into the making of The Age of Decadence.

 

[Nifft Batuff]

but in an isometric game your perspective is not bound to the eyes of your character and you can usually scroll the camera around freely, so there's no point in walking slowly.

Well, in isometric crpgs there is usually the fog of war. In Underrail for example you can see only what is not blocked in you line of sight.

While I generally agree that in isometric games there is not a great deal of immersion, Underrail is surprisingly immersive, at least for me. There is a great sense of exploration. And also danger: you want to carefully avoid many battles if you are not well prepared. Running in an unexplored location usually means suicide.

 

[King Crispy]

If you keep falling back on "Well if you want to move fast you must not actually like playing games" then you lose. You have lost the argument.

And it's hilarious that you still continue to believe that this is what the "argument" is all about. rusty started this thread asking whether or not there is any value in allowing a walk option in iso RPGs. Clearly, to many, there is.

The fact that Zombra keeps harping on the rationality behind why some people appreciate having a walk option is irrelevant; the question has been asked and it has been answered.

Your last post continues that pointless portion of the conversation as well.

 

[Corbin Dallas Multipass]

Such as, reloading the game again because oops, I forgot to press sheathe weapon and now I've aggroed the guards/shopkeepers/whatever.

Jesus christ. Get good. Not stabbing everyone you see really, really isn't that hard. In any game, if you die 10 times in a row to the same incredibly simple thing, it isn't a problem with the game, you just suck.

You know what's even less hard? Not making me have a button to sheathe my weapon when that's obviously and objectively the correct thing to do, assuming I don't wish for a game over every time I try to interact with a friendly NPC.

Lol you can't even read, yet you try to participate in a purely written form of communication. You are a masochist, that makes a lot of sense. Obviously I was talking about how elsewhere, someone complained that more RPGs don't punish characters for walking around with their weapons out, then brought up games where you do have to sheathe your weapon before you talk. Resulting in some attempts to talk accidentally leading to combat, thus forcing a reload. It's not a matter of "git gud" you fucking retard. It's a matter of not putting in "press x not to die" in a long RPG that doesn't need extra unnecessary reloading just so some poor soul with incurable aspergers can jerk off to his immersion.

If you keep falling back on "Well if you want to move fast you must not actually like playing games" then you lose. You have lost the argument.

And it's hilarious that you still continue to believe that this is what the "argument" is all about. rusty started this thread asking whether or not there is any value in allowing a walk option in iso RPGs. Clearly, to many, there is.

The fact that Zombra keeps harping on the rationality behind why some people appreciate having a walk option is irrelevant; the question has been asked and it has been answered.

Your last post continues that pointless portion of the conversation as well.

Exactly. The topic in the OP has been exhausted as it was obvious from the get go. Then some people, namely zombra and you, kept going on about other things, like how you're a bad gamer who hates video games if you don't want to watch your characters walk across a field. And now you're continuing this same argument.

Imagine that. On a discussion forum. People discussing things that came up during a discussion. Fucking madness.

It's obvious several people are trying to "win" here, and there's a lot of value in repeatedly fucking with those people. Again, yourself included.

So, if you think this conversation has reached its end point of usefulness, you're cordially invited to not comment in it anymore. If you'd like to continue making inane banter, well then my friend, you're in the right place. But, seeing as how you apparently disagree with Zombra's take, why don't you take that up with him instead of sucking his metaphorical dick over how much better posters you are than Rusty Shackleford (Who, for the record, has a better name and better posts than both of you put together.)

 

[Faarbaute]

Picture it if you willl:

You come across what appears to be a recently uncovered hole in the ground, on an otherwise unremarkable stretch of land. Upon investigation, you realise that it's not just a fox's den or a badger's nest but an actual man sized tunnel that runs horizontally to the ground above, gently sloping downwards and into the distance. It would appear that you've accidentally stumbled across an underground system of some kind, uncovered perhaps by the recent torrential rains.

Unbeknownst to you this an entrance to the home of a tribe of Bugbears, blind from spending their entire lives underground and in the dark. They keep Basilisks as pets, which are of no harm to them, but great danger to you.

Now, imagine your party of choice venturing into this location in true isometric RPG fashion, uncovering clues as to the nature of the inhabitants, skillschecks galore, enviromental storytelling and sound design that alert the party to the danger they're about to face.

Exploration of this dungeon allows the party to leverage an advantage over the inhabitants of the tunnels in various different ways and impacts greatly how you chose to tackle the challenges ahead. Proceeding slowly and with caution, would flow naturally from the way the entire scenario is designed.

Also, fog of war is mandatory in isometric RPGs.

 

[Harthwain]

You know what's even less hard? Not making me have a button to sheathe my weapon when that's obviously and objectively the correct thing to do, assuming I don't wish for a game over every time I try to interact with a friendly NPC.

You're reaching - attacking an NPC was never a problem in games like Gothic, Icewind Dale or Baldur's Gate (to give a few examples). And if it is [in some game], then it's the issue lies with keybinding or control scheme, not with the idea of holstering/unholstering a weapon. Frankly, trying to make an argument against provoking NPCs out of this is ridiculous, to put it mildly.

 

[Corbin Dallas Multipass]

You know what's even less hard? Not making me have a button to sheathe my weapon when that's obviously and objectively the correct thing to do, assuming I don't wish for a game over every time I try to interact with a friendly NPC.

You're reaching - attacking an NPC was never a problem in games like Gothic, Icewind Dale or Baldur's Gate (to give a few examples). And if it is [in some game], then it's the issue lies with keybinding or control scheme, not with the idea of holstering/unholstering a weapon. Frankly, trying to make an argument against provoking NPCs out of this is ridiculous, to put it mildly.

Even going with a much milder example, morrowind gave a 5 reaction malus for having a weapon out (I think it was 5, it's been a while).

And it makes perfect sense, in a way, but also, it makes no fucking sense because there's clearly a right answer here. Just always have your weapon sheathed when talking to people. So what the hell is the point? I can remember to push the button for a slightly easier time, or I can sometimes forget to push the button and have a slightly harder time. This isn't even immersive at that point, because in real life you're well aware if you're carrying a fucking sword unsheathed all the time.

I mean, sure, if you have the resources, throw in a sheathe/unsheathe keybind and animation. But don't punish me for not using it, unless there's some kind of interesting and meaningful choice being made.

Baldur's gate and icewind dale didn't have a way to sheathe your weapon, so of course you never got attacked for not doing it. And it wasn't a question of accidentally attacking, it was the situation of the guards seeing you approach with your weapon out and attacking you for it. The whole point of the system, at least as discussed here, was that walking around with unsheathed weapons would provoke NPCs.

 

[octavius]

Rusty, your wise councel is needed on this question: why have voice acting if you can read the same speech in less time? Shld w ls dspns wth vcls?

 

[Lim-Dûl]

Why edge when you can just cum?

 

[Zombra]

"press x not to die"

Ah I see. You fear having to press buttons to succeed in a game. Sad.

 

[JarlFrank]

I can remember to push the button for a slightly easier time, or I can sometimes forget to push the button and have a slightly harder time. This isn't even immersive at that point, because in real life you're well aware if you're carrying a fucking sword unsheathed all the time.

The Elder Scrolls games are first person games.

Spoiler

If you don't see the sword right there on the fucking screen, I have bad news for your eyesight.

 

[JarlFrank]

Rusty, your wise councel is needed on this question: why have voice acting if you can read the same speech in less time? Shld w ls dspns wth vcls?

I always switch off the voice acting precisely for that reason. Voice acting sucks.

 

[Glop_dweller]

Baldur's gate and icewind dale didn't have a way to sheathe your weapon...

This isn't technically accurate.

Baldur's Gate and Icewind Dale had a minimum of two weapon slots; empty ones were always hands, and selecting the hand would put away the weapons. Also it switched the PC to using non-lethal damage... opponents beaten with fists would fall unconscious, and would revive shortly thereafter.

While it's true [afaik] there are not encounters that hinge upon openly equipped weapons in those games, it is the case that Fallout did have town guards who would demand the PC holster their weapon, done by the same ways as in Baldur's Gate; manually unequipping, or by swapping hands.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

rusty started this thread

no I didn't

 

[rusty_shackleford]

Rusty, your wise councel is needed on this question: why have voice acting if you can read the same speech in less time? Shld w ls dspns wth vcls?

voice acting in games is almost always excruciatingly slow, as if they're being told to speak slower for the benefit of ESLs or something

 

[Sigourn]

Rusty, your wise councel is needed on this question: why have voice acting if you can read the same speech in less time? Shld w ls dspns wth vcls?

voice acting in games is almost always excruciatingly slow, as if they're being told to speak slower for the benefit of ESLs or something

I have a similar complaint, but I think the issue is that voice acting in games is simply shit. So when voice acting is shit, it always appears to be excruciatingly slow. Never got this feeling when talking to cool NPCs. But when I talk to bad ones, they never seem to finish their lines fast enough.

 

[Harthwain]

Baldur's gate and icewind dale didn't have a way to sheathe your weapon, so of course you never got attacked for not doing it.

The point was that in Baldur's Gate and Icewind Dale it is not really possible to accidentally attack an NPC.

And it wasn't a question of accidentally attacking, it was the situation of the guards seeing you approach with your weapon out and attacking you for it. The whole point of the system, at least as discussed here, was that walking around with unsheathed weapons would provoke NPCs.

It's still a weak argument though. Even if you walk with your weapon unsheathed in Gothic the guards would clearly warn you before attacking, giving you a chance to correct your mistake if you forgot to hide your weapon.

 

[King Crispy]

no I didn't

Actually, you did. You just didn't intend to.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

no I didn't

Actually, you did. You just didn't intend to.

nope, I didn't.

 

[Zombra]

I have a similar complaint, but I think the issue is that voice acting in games is simply shit. So when voice acting is shit, it always appears to be excruciatingly slow. Never got this feeling when talking to cool NPCs. But when I talk to bad ones, they never seem to finish their lines fast enough.

I'll dial it out a little further. My problem with VA usually isn't the VA itself - it's the writing. Many game writers never taught themselves that less is more, and write pages and pages of text to add "personality" to their characters. In older games, this isn't as big a deal because skimming fluff text is easy and clicking through is fast; but no one wants to listen to a current day quest giver for 5 minutes about how his daughter must be found, no matter how charming he sounds.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

They really just do speak slow. Find some modern video game dialogue on YouTube, listen to it, then click the little cog to speed it up by 25% and listen to it again.

 

[Nifft Batuff]

They really just do speak slow. Find some modern video game dialogue on YouTube, listen to it, then click the little cog to speed it up by 25% and listen to it again.

You can do this with everything. Even with movies, seminars, etc. Everything remain intellegible, you just take less time to watch it.
Things are exacerbated in crpgs because you are just watching static text.