Game News Jagged Alliance 2 - Reloaded Ditches Turn-Based Combat

[Takeda Kenshi]

Once it fails, they will blame the lack of sales on piracy.

 

[Topher]

No fog of war? What the fuck? What the fuck? What the fuck? What the fuck? What the fuck?

RT can be good with a good AI and planning tools (which the game certainly won't have). But no fog of war? What the fuck? What the fuck? What the fuck? What the fuck? What the fuck?

That's how I feel. I can deal with RTwP, Fallout Tactics had a mode like that, but no fog of war? I'm assuming that means enemies outside LoS stay visible and that's just awful.

 

[Andhaira]

This sucks! What the fuck is it with todays developers and their aversion to TB combat?

 

[Tuco Benedicto Pacifico]

I will enjoy their bankrupt.

 

[SimpleComplexity]

Finally the game where i can make use of my 800 APM.

 

[thesheeep]

Well, their criticism with with the TB system of JA2 is valid.
Shit just takes too long. I also favored the way they handled this in Fallout Tactics. Dynamic switch between RT and TB.

But "fixing" the old system by removing the TB completely? Wow, just wow.
Removing Fog Of War outside buildings? That's just built in cheating...

 

[Shannow]

Hi there folks!
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Since quality cream is expensive, we decided to use old, rancid fat from a cheap burger fry instead. Chocolate isn't really to our taste because it's a little boring so we decided on artificial strawberry aroma instead.
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modern game developers

 

[lightbane]

I like when they contradict themselves spouting such bullshit. A JE 2's remake aimed to the fans without turn-based combat?

I would laugh if it wasn't for the fact that shit like this is too common nowadays...

 

[WhiskeyWolf]

If you are...


Then take 30 sec. of your precious time and mail those tasteless rapist what you think about all this - info@bit-Composer.com

 

[zeitgeist]

I have a feeling that those two big threads full of newly registered posters commenting on this at the jaggedalliance.com forum might magically disappear first thing Monday morning, so if anyone's interested in preserving them in form of screenshots or a saved page for archival purposes, now would be a good time.

 

[SoupNazi]

FUCK ASS

No really, what the fuck are they thinking? Whenever someone says "I want to play a good game with turn-based combat," EVERYONE recommends Jagged Alliance 2 FIRST. It's the single defining element of this game's success, AND THEY STRIP IT OFF?

 

[lisac2k]

I can't help myself, but to agree with all of you here. A sad day for gaming, indeed. And a proof about the bottom the game development/publishing nowadays has reached.

 

[Lord Rocket]

Hi guys I'm outraged too

 

[markec]

Some interesting comments on RPGWatch http://www.rpgwatch.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11774

Well, I really do not mind. This is basically Baldur's Gate I. Getting rid of TB was good 12 years ago and this is no different. The last TB game I played was Pool of Radiance: Ruins of Myth Drannor, and I used a hack that could speed up time because it was so dreadfully slow. There's a woman playing the game on youtube. She's up at video 296 now, 10-15 minutes each, and she isn't near the end.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VFG9wzkb__0

I also remember the ages Fallout battles could take when a fight broke out into a town and it could take 5 minutes until you could control your characters again because every frigid civilian had to move one by one.

One of the worst parts with TB is already mentioned, when TB is enabled too early and you have to use the first rounds to simply get your guys in position.
But then you have the people you just do not need, you want them to guard somewhere until needed, but every round you have to click past them, while there are a lot of foes who are just standing somewhere, waiting. You could and should really move them closer to the battle, but you know that would just drain time and would probably not help anyway since the last foe is likely dead before they pop up, then things go bad and you have to do it anyway.

TB was developed for PnP because you can't handle things going on at the same time. It's completely unnecessary for computers. Pause-to-Command is fine. Really. I was close to register to their forum and suggest it myself.

 

[VonVentrue]

What in heaven's name is with this downright ridiculous notion that you cannot create a turn-based game in this day and age? Outrageous.

I'm rubbing my hands in anticipation for the announcement of Jagged Alliance 3 getting the "Fallout 3/ XCOM" treatment.

 

[zeitgeist]

Apparently, Andrew Emmons, the lead programmer of JA2, commented on the topic too:

Unfortunately a turn-based combat would probably keep the JA line as a niche product for the developer, so I can see the motivation behind this. I personally love turn-based games and appreciate all the subtle nuances that the JA2 combat system had for the sole purpose of enhancing the gameplay experience. Hopefully the developer can capture some of these in the new system so that it is a fun game to play, even if it doesn't provide me with my turn-based fix.

Andrew, JA2 Lead Developer

http://www.jaggedalliance.com/index.php ... mforum_pi1[action]=list_post&tx_mmforum_pi1[tid]=101&tx_mmforum_pi1[page]=14

 

[Tails]

Are they self-publishing? If yes, then it's all their fault for being retards.

Bit-something is a publishing company. RTwP can't be more tactical then Turn-Based combat. But whatever, they can even make FPP mode for it, since I don't give a flying duck about this remake. Original game is still working on modern PCs without issues and has great modding community, which this crap will never get.

 

[Felix]

lol JemyM failed his retarded sanity check again, typical apologist attitude.

 

[Zed]

No it was just JemyM and he's a huge retard, evident from everywhere he posts (flashback.info, rpgwatch.com).

 

[Carlos' Bitch1]

Didn't this happen to JA3 until the fans went rampaging so they canned it? Another time I remember someone talking about JA3 being made with the SS engine...confusing.

As for this remake...well, what a surprise!

 

[Tails]

Didn't this happen to JA3 until the fans went rampaging so they canned it? Another time I remember someone talking about JA3 being made with the SS engine...confusing.

If I recall good, StrategyFirst took the game from the developer, because of weird delays they had.

 

[zeitgeist]

Didn't this happen to JA3 until the fans went rampaging so they canned it? Another time I remember someone talking about JA3 being made with the SS engine...confusing.

The JA IP has been horribly mistreated over the past 10 years, it's been passed around many times and no one ended up doing anything with it in the end. There's been a handful of JA3 games in development, some ended up being released under a different name, some canned, one of them was supposed to be in the SS engine... it's all a rather silly story really.

 

[GarfunkeL]

If you are...


Then take 30 sec. of your precious time and mail those tasteless rapist what you think about all this - info@bit-Composer.com

Done!

Dear Bit-Composer,

Having bought Jagged Alliance, Jagged Alliance: Deadly Games and Jagged Alliance 2 and having played all of them to death, I was delighted to hear that you guys got the licence and are going to make a new game in the series. I wasn't too thrilled with the idea of remake, though - as JA2 works perfectly well with modern computers and is pretty much near perfection. Still, it could have been a great opportunity to bring newer gamers into the heavenly goodness of tactical wargaming that the name Jagged Alliance has always represented.

Imagine my surprise then when I recently learned, thanks to your press release, that you people have decided to make a completely different type of game but still call it Jagged Alliance. I mean, if I make a chocolate cake, I don't use strawberries in it - no matter what some retarded "marketing analyst" suit tries to tell me. The combat engine of JA2 was damn near perfect and your given reasons are all invalid:
"It is dynamic, as it allows combat in real time"
-No, real time isn't inherently any more dynamic than turn based. Next I guess you want to call it visceral?
" It introduces timing as a new element: it enables the player to spot and assess enemy movements, so he can either cleverly sneak past, or lie in wait and choose the right moment to attack"
-Which already was an element of the old game but you actually had to plan for it before hand.
"It avoids the situation where you get mixed up in a battle while your mercenaries are some distance from the front. JA2 was very time-consuming in this respect, because players had to lag behind for several turns while they moved all their mercenaries to the front"
-Not true, as the game would switch to real time if you weren't in the vicinity of enemies. The above mention situation would only happen if you had one mercenary on one side of the map and the rest on the other side, which was a very, very rare situation.
"Combat with large numbers of enemies happen more quickly; in JA2 it took ages for the round to finish when numerous mercenaries and enemies were involved in the battle"
-No it didn't, unless you really had huge numbers - town defence missions with lots of militia and civilians. You only need to speed animations for that problem to go away - or go the Temple of Elemental Evil-route and have enemies do their movement animations simultaneously. Best of all, do it as the 1.13 mod-developers did - make animation speeds visible to the player, who can then tweak to the his/her liking. Original X-Com: Ufo Defence did that almost 15 years ago - but you people think that the only answer is to go real-time?
"The new system also allows us to incorporate new AI functions such as cutting off and flanking enemies, that only work when actions are carried out simultaneously and not one after the other"
-This was already in the vanilla game and 1.13 made it much better and the last part is an outright lie.


You, as a company, at least should have the moral courage to tell the old fans that you are making some kind of abomination for the console kiddies, instead of a Jagged Alliance game. And when the game eventually tanks, as the old fans surely won't buy it and no matter what you do, it IS a niche game - not to mention all the bad press and word-of-mouth this will get, what will you do then? Excuse bad design with piracy? Or maybe you'll think it wasn't "streamlined" enough? Or maybe, just maybe, you guys could take a collective look in the mirror and remember when it all went wrong.

Yours sincerely,

 

[HiddenX]

@GarfunkeL

Email: ....

+1


I posted something similar in their german forum.

 

[The_scorpion]

Keep up the ragewave bros...


They're messing with the wrong gameplay elements!