Game News Jeff Vogel Responding To Critics

[DakaSha]

i was hoping that after sleeping id come back to this thread and people would be saying what a funny ass looking retard vogel is

 

[J_J_M]

Since he seems to be browsing this site every now and then, why don't he actually register and debate us, instead of resort to quote-mining on his little blog surrounded with his nuthugging fanboys?

 

[Elwro]

He doesn't need to register, I think he has an account.

 

[Forest Dweller]

Since he seems to be browsing this site every now and then, why don't he actually register and debate us, instead of resort to quote-mining on his little blog surrounded with his nuthugging fanboys?

He's obviously above it.

 

[BonziBUDDY]

@Dan: Thank you for reposting the review above from the forums, since it does such a good job of clarifying why I feel the way I do. Consider this ...

"For almost all of the game: nope. In fact, the character system is structured to discourage you from using skills, since they eat up endurance, which doesn't regenerate, while health does. I'll dive into that in my review. It's the biggest screw-up of several screw-ups really."

This is just wrong.

It is clear that this feedback only comes from a few seconds of play, followed by a guess. If you actually played the game, you would know that, if this system can be criticized for anything, it's for abilities taking too little endurance. You almost never run out.

Some people think this is a flaw. I don't. It means that the game creates the impression of fatigue without ever inconveniencing the player with lots of trips back to town.

In other words, that "flaw," described as "the biggest screw-up of several screw-ups really" is not there. This is not constructive criticism. It is not even based in anything resembling reality.

When I read the RPG Codex thread on Avadon, it was at this exact post that I tuned out. I thought, "This is as close to a constructive comment as I'm going to get here, and I'm just wrong. I am wasting my time here."

- Jeff Vogel

@Dan: Oh, one other thing.

"99% of the comments I read on RPGCodex about Spiderweb games (EXCEPT for Avadon) are positive."

Nonsense.

I have actually been following RPG Codex threads about me for a while. It's due diligence, really, though I'm about to stop. That RPG Codex has always been full of love for me is demonstrably untrue. Just look at old threads about my games and blog articles. You will find long stretches of nothing but pure, undiluted bile.

I honestly was surprised by your comment. I completely did not expect that someone would actually pretend that RPG Codex is full of love for me! I mean, dude! Google exists! Anyone who cared could look up and see a long litany of hate, going well back.

And, since I like to prove things I say, here is an example, because I dared to write something about a game that wasn't entirely critical ...

http://www.rpgcodex.net/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=58240

"The guy who wrote this is worthy of clinical retardation papers. "

- Jeff Vogel

 

[Elwro]

Brother None, so you really only played a few seconds of the game? Shame on you!

 

[DakaSha]

Jeff needs to go buy himself a hummer

 

[Kraszu]

@Dan: Thank you for reposting the review above from the forums, since it does such a good job of clarifying why I feel the way I do. Consider this ...

"For almost all of the game: nope. In fact, the character system is structured to discourage you from using skills, since they eat up endurance, which doesn't regenerate, while health does. I'll dive into that in my review. It's the biggest screw-up of several screw-ups really."

This is just wrong.

It is clear that this feedback only comes from a few seconds of play, followed by a guess. If you actually played the game, you would know that, if this system can be criticized for anything, it's for abilities taking too little endurance. You almost never run out.

Some people think this is a flaw. I don't. It means that the game creates the impression of fatigue without ever inconveniencing the player with lots of trips back to town.

lol to funny, his defence actually make the system sounds worse then the complaint did. By that logic a perfect game would have screen going all red but the hero be actually immortal, so you could immerse yourself into feeling of danger without actually having too do tedious things like loading a save after dying, sleeping, or drinking healing potions to restore health.

 

[Humanity has risen!]

Haha damn, I bought it on Gamersgate and the download client won't work with my firewall. :/

 

[felipepepe]

This. On pretty much all counts. Oh, and felipepepe, I WOULD like to know what you mean when you say "most," because 9 out of 10 people here praised New Vegas. A little over half here also liked Dragon Age. The fact that you could even mention those games with a straight face in order to prove your point just shows that you have tunnel vision when reading Codex posts. Bottom line: you're a faggot whose opinion doesn't matter.

Maybe now it's 9 out of 10, but at launch it was just people hating, "not a true Fallout", "Romans are stupid" and that old shit. And some didn't even played the game at the time, were just trolling, just like it's with Avadon now.

Wanna see? Here: http://www.rpgcodex.net/phpBB/viewtopic ... sc&start=0
VD does a massive 3-page review of F:NV a while after was launched and say it "can easily compete with the original games". I believe no game in the Codex has ever reached such praise. Still you get 13 pages of mixed reaction, stupid one-liners and dumbasses calling him a retard. Why go throught this?

Should Vogel come here debate his game instead of bloggin about the Codex? Yeah, it would be nice to hear him. But I don't see why he (or anyone) should have to dig around so much bullshit, trying to find an actual post by someone that actualy played the game has has something to discuss. It's just not worth.

EDIT: It seems Vogel agrees with me, that the same thing that happen to F:NV also happens to most of Spiderweb games, since is hate wars when they come out, and hipocrites saying "we all love them" later...

 

[BonziBUDDY]

This. On pretty much all counts. Oh, and felipepepe, I WOULD like to know what you mean when you say "most," because 9 out of 10 people here praised New Vegas. A little over half here also liked Dragon Age. The fact that you could even mention those games with a straight face in order to prove your point just shows that you have tunnel vision when reading Codex posts. Bottom line: you're a faggot whose opinion doesn't matter.

Maybe now it's 9 out of 10, but at launch it was just people hating, "not a true Fallout", "Romans are stupid" and that old shit. And some didn't even played the game at the time, were just trolling, just like it's with Avadon now.

Wanna see? Here: http://www.rpgcodex.net/phpBB/viewtopic ... sc&start=0
VD does a massive 3-page review of F:NV a while after was launched and say it "can easily compete with the original games". I believe no game in the Codex has ever reached such praise. Still you get 13 pages of mixed reaction, stupid one-liners and dumbasses calling him a retard. Why go throught this?

Should Vogel come here debate his game instead of bloggin about the Codex? Yeah, it would be nice to hear him. But I don't see why he (or anyone) should have to dig around so much bullshit, trying to find an actual post by someone that actualy played the game has has something to discuss. It's just not worth.

EDIT: It seems Vogel agrees with me, that the same thing that happen to F:NV also happens to most of Spiderweb games, since is hate wars when they come out, and hipocrites saying "we all love them" later...

gibe moni pls

 

[Brotherman Bill]

He deleted my post, I think. I posted a long summary of the three arguments that Codexers made in the thread. It didn't even contain any slurs, racial or otherwise. Except maybe "fuck" but that is standaerd internet lingo... He also says Codex hates him because we don't like his DA2 review.

We have induced butthurt. And I am disappoint in Spiderweb.

 

[Kraszu]

Wanna see? Here: http://www.rpgcodex.net/phpBB/viewtopic ... sc&start=0
VD does a massive 3-page review of F:NV a while after was launched and say it "can easily compete with the original games". I believe no game in the Codex has ever reached such praise. Still you get 13 pages of mixed reaction, stupid one-liners and dumbasses calling him a retard. Why go throught this?

I did screen over the first page, post were on topic, also what is wrong with mixed reactions you can't have opinion different to VD? Maybe at least tell what page is like you had described, as for being called a retard so what it is just an internet forum if you have to deal with this shit then you are too self concious.

Should Vogel come here debate his game instead of bloggin about the Codex? Yeah, it would be nice to hear him. But I don't see why he (or anyone) should have to dig around so much bullshit, trying to find an actual post by someone that actualy played the game has has something to discuss. It's just not worth.

EDIT: It seems Vogel agrees with me, that the same thing that happen to F:NV also happens to most of Spiderweb games, since is hate wars when they come out, and hipocrites saying "we all love them" later...

Can you show this bullshit how hard are one liners to avoid seriously?

EDIT:You know that nick on codex don't actually all belong to one person many alts right?

 

[Achilles]

Sure, you can ignore them, but the effort to discuss anything here is getting too high compared to the results.

Yeah, you're definitely right about that. Still, there are people here who want to have a proper discussion, as well as quality posters.

 

[Destroid]

It's not trolling if it's true.





































...

 

[SkepticsClaw]

By far and away the most boring, tedious thing on the Codex is reading interminable, self-important monologues about the fucking 'decline of the Codex', as if this place or anyone in it owes you anything whatsoever. It's utterly dull. It's like listening to some old timer go on and on and on about how great things were in the old days, and how a shiny copper penny used to buy you a a ploughmans lunch with enough change left over for a bottle of brown ale.

More trollocaust, less butthurt drony old flat vacuum cleaner nagging women

 

[Kraszu]

@Dan: Thank you for reposting the review above from the forums, since it does such a good job of clarifying why I feel the way I do. Consider this ...

"For almost all of the game: nope. In fact, the character system is structured to discourage you from using skills, since they eat up endurance, which doesn't regenerate, while health does. I'll dive into that in my review. It's the biggest screw-up of several screw-ups really."

This is just wrong.

It is clear that this feedback only comes from a few seconds of play, followed by a guess. If you actually played the game, you would know that, if this system can be criticized for anything, it's for abilities taking too little endurance. You almost never run out.

Some people think this is a flaw. I don't. It means that the game creates the impression of fatigue without ever inconveniencing the player with lots of trips back to town.

lol to funny, his defence actually make the system sounds worse then the complaint did. By that logic a perfect game would have screen going all red but the hero be actually immortal, so you could immerse yourself into feeling of danger without actually having too do tedious things like loading a save after dying, sleeping, or drinking healing potions to restore health.

Looks like the perfect game was already released, or is it some scam/bug?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Racru_cm ... er&list=UL

And yes I did quote myself.

 

[Elwro]

:shock: Good I steered clear of that game.

 

[fizzelopeguss]

RPG Codex is an interesting place. It is inhabited by people who like role-playing games, but love hating them.

They're just pretending the game is bad to justify their pirating it (and playing the whole thing three times). Another good reason to be very careful about whose feedback you accept.

I'd say jeff wins this one.

 

[bhlaab]

he's not really responding to critics so much as he is dismissing them immediately because he doesn't like what they're saying.

way to excercise your boundaries, shithead

 

[DakaSha]

They're just pretending the game is bad to justify their pirating it (and playing the whole thing three times). Another good reason to be very careful about whose feedback you accept.

I'd say jeff wins this one.

Bullshit. That statement is nothing but butthurt rationalization and faggot knee jerk marketing

 

[SpFiota]

I've been arguing with Jeff about Avadon on his blog and he asked me to post the following here on the Codex for your enjoyment. It's his position that we're drawing conclusions without seeing more of the game. In my opinion a game, like a book, should be enthralling from the start. I shouldn't be working to reach a point that I enjoy. He should have worked to bring that point of enjoyment to me from the start.

@John: So when you say "Positioning. Smart usage of resources. Puzzle solving. Cleverness. I just don't see it in Avadon."

what you mean is

"Positioning. Smart usage of resources. Puzzle solving. Cleverness. I just don't see it in the first 15% or so of Avadon."

I'm sorry you didn't like the game and the first little fraction of it bored you. But this, THIS is why I have been neglected feedback from your corner of the internet. By not mentioning what portion of the game you played, your post was so misleading as to be borderline libelous.

If they don't like the demo, they don't like it, but they shouldn't pretend they comprehend the whole game.

You see, I've gotten and read tons of feedback about Avadon. Most gamers I've heard from find the Shadow Beasts (about where you quit the game) fights to be challenging and an appropriate ramping up of complexity.

That is part of designing a good game, you know. Designing for everyone, not just the super-hardcorez. The later fights in Avadon ARE more complicated and require careful tactics, but the place where you quit is the wrong place for those fights. Wrong, wrong, wrong.

I think the main beef RPG Codex people have is that I didn't bring out those crazy, complex fights at the beginning. This would be pleasing a tiny handful and excluding everyone else. Not good design, in my book.

I admit that Avadon simply might require more patience from hardcore gamers than a lot of them will be willing to give. I just might not write games you/they will like anymore. More's the pity.

 

[Davaris]

Jeff needs to go buy himself a hummer

He needs to unplug from the internet and cool off for a week. He's only made a bad situation worse, by burning his bridges with the Codex. If you are reading this Jeff, this is what is called a PR disaster.

http://prdisasters.com/reputation20-and ... -disaster/

* Don’t do media interviews when you’re tired or easily provoked to irritation or anger
* Don’t give interviews when you can’t master your ego and emotions or mask your simmering aggression, disdain or sense of hurt and injustice

* Don’t do them when you haven’t polished your performance, practiced responding to inevitably thorny questions or have no ability to formulate and deliver a coherent set of appropriate messages
* Don’t storm off in a huff when you sense it’s not going the way you insist it should (that’s every provocative investigative journo’s dream)
* Don’t wave lawyers letters aloft and threaten to kick the interview camera around (ditto on the dream front)

 

[BonziBUDDY]

(I am no longer visiting RPG Codex forums, but if you posted the above there, I really would appreciate it. I know there's a massive ragethread there about me, and I think that will, if not mollify them, make them understand why Avadon might not entirely be The Great Betrayal Of All Good Principles.)

 

[Carlos' Bitch1]

When I read the RPG Codex thread on Avadon, it was at this exact post that I tuned out. I thought, "This is as close to a constructive comment as I'm going to get here, and I'm just wrong. I am wasting my time here."

- Jeff Vogel

Indeed! What was it Jeff was saying about 'people that tried the demo for 5 minutes'? And he blames people for;

When I played the Avadon demo, it was at that exact moment after an hour that I tuned out. I thought, "This is as close to a decent game as I'm going to get with this thing, and it is just rubbish. I am wasting my time with this game.".

Yes indeed.

@Dan: Oh, one other thing.

"99% of the comments I read on RPGCodex about Spiderweb games (EXCEPT for Avadon) are positive."

Nonsense.

I have actually been following RPG Codex threads about me for a while. It's due diligence, really, though I'm about to stop. That RPG Codex has always been full of love for me is demonstrably untrue. Just look at old threads about my games and blog articles. You will find long stretches of nothing but pure, undiluted bile.

I honestly was surprised by your comment. I completely did not expect that someone would actually pretend that RPG Codex is full of love for me! I mean, dude! Google exists! Anyone who cared could look up and see a long litany of hate, going well back.

And, since I like to prove things I say, here is an example, because I dared to write something about a game that wasn't entirely critical ...

http://www.rpgcodex.net/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=58240

"The guy who wrote this is worthy of clinical retardation papers. "

- Jeff Vogel

See, unless everybody loves you, you are horrid. - Jeff Vogel.

And what a ridiculous way to 'prove a point'; Claim that nobody on the Codex loves his games, etc, and then say "Look! Right here! This review of Dragon Age 2 that the Codex does largely hate proves my point! They hate my games and always have!".

 

[Humanity has risen!]

What the hell, I got the Gamersgate program to work, but now in the Gamersgate version the cursor will freeze for a second ever 15 seconds or so, whereas the demo was smooth as silk.