Game News Jeff Vogel Responding To Critics

[Fryjar]

@felipepepe:
You're a couple of years late sadly.
We had exactly this very discussion during the faceoff between VD and the lulz crowd if either the codex should become a more regulated place with regard to one liners just put out for the sake of repeating a meme for the 1000th time or fully embracing the lulz.
The latter guys came out on top and so the criticism you bring up is warranted but really nothing unexpected or something which could be reallistcally changed now anymore.

Also with regard to the guys that say that the codex was never different, that's just plain wrong.
The guys here have always been a bunch of raging elitists but the difference was that back then they actually backed up their reasoning and criticism with arguments. Its also pretty obvious from the links that were given despite claims to the contrary.
Nowadays you have to dig through four troll or meme posts before finding the first serious response. On the flipside this is the best april's fools day site on the net now, so choice and consequences right?

 

[Humanity has risen!]

Yeah I think the Codex is overreacting when it comes to this. Sure, the fact that the game is not as hardcore as before is disappointing. No argument. And I do think Jeff should have made more of an effort to also quote the legit criticism from the threads. I think if they're serious about this more people should give it a fair shake, instead of being horrified because they played the tutorial section. I found the tutorial section to be meh so far, but I'm sure the game will open up at some point.

And what I'm absolutely certain of is that this game can still be very enjoyable and has a lot to offer. Who even makes unique, text-heavy, turn-based, cerebral isometric RPGs anymore? Isn't this a lot more worthwhile than stuff like Dragon Age 2?

That's why this game still interests me, and I'll buy it when I'm finished with my current Spiderweb games. I had my money's worth so far, and I'm sure I will again with this one.

 

[Sceptic]

The most insightful post in this thread.

Doesn't say much considering the general level of... well I was going to say retardedness, but it's not, it's just weird.

Anyway, I can't be bothered making point by point replies to 5 pages, so here are my thoughts, neatly condensed:
- Jeff Vogel has officially gone retard: pick the single community on the 'net that loves his games, praises them to hell and back, and constantly advances them as buying recommendations, but who just happen to have mixed feelings about his latest game, and claim they want him dead.
- Jeff Vogel's also pulled a Gaider: take quotes out of context, ignore every single post that either praises his game or makes constructive criticism, and stick to the lame one-liners as the True Hivemind's Thoughts.
- Trash has been whining about the Decline of teh Codex since... what, 7 years now? His line that wit = 4chan is also one of the most things I've seen on here lately. Though I'll give you that the very childish post complaining about VoD being childish did give me a chuckle.
- On that topic, VoD's newspost is perfectly fine. Vogel has been in the news many times for saying this or that on his blog, when it concerns both Avadon and The Codex I don't see why it shouldn't be news.
- Claims that the Codex hates all new games: even more hilarious since the examples given were DAO and FNV. The former was voted best RPG of 2009 and one of the Codex official reviews considers it to be the best CRPG since Arcanum, the latter has had cautious to total approval given by pretty much everyone who hasn't replayed KOTOR 7 times, doesn't bring Michaelangelo into a discussion about JRPG's and who hadn't had his brain destroyed from playing and reviewing Arcania.
- Codex likes lots of new games. Drakensang ROT, Divinity 2, FNV, DAO, ME2, Risen, Gray Matter, all were praised by a substantial portion of the 'dex (and in the case of DKS and Risen, almost unanimously). Does this mean EVERYONE liked them? of course not. But did you actually expect this to happen? do we even want everyone to agree?

Oh and Blackadder

 

[Elwro]

But I'm certain that this game can still be very enjoyable and has a lot to offer. Who even makes unique, text-heavy, turn-based, cerebral isometric RPGs anymore?

Why are you so certain? Have you played the demo? The game doesn't seem to be cerebral at all.

 

[Clockwork Knight]

Yeah, no offense, but I don't see any administration activity besides posting news. It's even possible that if I write in another language nada aconteça comigo, né?

You seem to have missed alll the "çkçiwçiaiçaisidç tzkivksz uaks stuviskà " dos poloneses locais.

 

[SCO]

If I was rich, actually was interested enough to check it out, thought the game had potential and it only took a single mouse click after reading this:

By TPB, the poster means The Pirate Bay. In other words, he's saying to go pirate it. I honestly think that most of these complaints are not sincere. They're just pretending the game is bad to justify their pirating it (and playing the whole thing three times). Another good reason to be very careful about whose feedback you accept.

I'd pirate it with a big fat smile on my face

Sorry, but I have never TPB or sharesite a game of Jeff.

No, it's true.

Really.

They are just not that interesting to bother.

Try Geneforge 5.

 

[Severian Silk]

Also with regard to the guys that say that the codex was never different, that's just plain wrong.
The guys here have always been a bunch of raging elitists but the difference was that back then they actually backed up their reasoning and criticism with arguments. Its also pretty obvious from the links that were given despite claims to the contrary.
Nowadays you have to dig through four troll or meme posts before finding the first serious response. On the flipside this is the best april's fools day site on the net now, so choice and consequences right?

Back then the bad language and gross stuff was mostly isolated to DAC.

 

[Claw]

You can even find some guys saying "yeah, Baldur's Gate 2 was already decline", with no argument behind, trying to be Codex Hipsters. How lame can you get?

Quote? I dunno, never played it, but I can't imagine it being worse than Baldur's Gate. Hah! [+300 CCP]
I hope it's not another 2010 newbie.

RPG's are not even doing so bad. We had far worse years. And most people here just stay on the PC (master race bla bla bla), talking about about shitty games like Sword and Sorcery - Underworld ("the only best dungeon crawler of 2010" - Etrian Odyssey III and SMT: Strange Journey are from 2010 too), just because is in their confort zone, and ignore that the Nintendo DS has many great RPG's, and MANY Dungeon Crawlers a lot better than the indie ones being released for PC.

So you're saying I should get a console just for some asian RPGs? The thing about Underworld is, I didn't expect all that much from it, but I enjoyed it enough that I wanted more when I hit the limits of the demo.
I found a ton to complain about, just as with any RPG, but I didn't buy a €100+ console just to play it.

Grow a spine guys. Talk about good RPG's you like, and why you don't like the bad one, not just keep posting "graphic whore" or "decline" hoping everyone notice how cool and "hardcore/old-school" you are.

Since the "show posts by this user" function is broken, could you kindly link me to the topics where you discuss these good RPGs? Because I am sure you're not one of those hypocritical fucks that would preach one thing and do another, so I am hoping to read some insightful posts by you that are about RPGs, not members of the Codex.

I like DS RPGs, you like DA2. That, for some stupid reason, is "unCodexian". We both can come here and post about it, but any discussion we can have about why we like, and if should other people try them is overwhelmed by assholes being "ironic", shouting graphic whore, biotards, etc...

Grow a spine etc. etc.

 

[Jasede]

Also with regard to the guys that say that the codex was never different, that's just plain wrong.
The guys here have always been a bunch of raging elitists but the difference was that back then they actually backed up their reasoning and criticism with arguments. Its also pretty obvious from the links that were given despite claims to the contrary.
Nowadays you have to dig through four troll or meme posts before finding the first serious response. On the flipside this is the best april's fools day site on the net now, so choice and consequences right?

Back then the bad language and gross stuff was mostly isolated to DAC.

Are you kidding? Back then there was Goatse and Tubgirl everywhere, and it was good.

 

[made]

So you're saying I should get a console just for some asian RPGs? The thing about Underworld is, I didn't expect all that much from it, but I enjoyed it enough that I wanted more when I hit the limits of the demo.
I found a ton to complain about, just as with any RPG, but I didn't buy a €100+ console just to play it.

If that's the only thing keeping you from playing DS RPGs, you'll be happy to hear that they run just fine on emulators.

Tbh I wish they'd get more coverage around here. I nearly missed out on EO3 or FFT, and they deserve all the publicity they can get.

 

[Awor Szurkrarz]

If you went through the trouble of downloading and playing the game, and you are in a forum about discussing RPG's, why post something so useless as this? Sorry, there is no constructive crticism to be found here.

Constructive criticism was already written by other people. Also, what's the point?

Jeff Vogel having bad taste and retarded ideas in his blog but still somehow making games that are almost complete opposite to what he blogs about and appealing to the Hivemind's tastes is an old Codexian joke.
Now he made a game that was finally based on the stuff he was blogging about, therefore the "full retard" thingie.

He's lost to our cause unless this game is going to be a complete financial failure and he's forced to make more games like Geneforge and Exile. Everything that was criticized by the Codex was his deliberate design decision that he believes is right, which makes constructive criticism pointless and which is the main reason why he responded as he responded.

 

[Sergiu64]

Well, that was exactly my point earlier. At some point the administration decided that acting out against retards was a waste of time and the quest for lulz would take presedence.

Sounds good to me.

 

[Excidium]

I like how most people complaining about the 'decline' of the codex are shit posters.

 

[Serious_Business]

I am smart and pirate ALL games, and you should too!!

 

[felipepepe]

Since the "show posts by this user" function is broken, could you kindly link me to the topics where you discuss these good RPGs? Because I am sure you're not one of those hypocritical fucks that would preach one thing and do another, so I am hoping to read some insightful posts by you that are about RPGs, not members of the Codex.

The "show posts" is broken for me too, but the search function is still working very well for both of us, if you're so curious. But you're just not that interesting for me to waste my time searching for a nice line to quote, sorry.

I like DS RPGs, you like DA2. That, for some stupid reason, is "unCodexian". We both can come here and post about it, but any discussion we can have about why we like, and if should other people try them is overwhelmed by assholes being "ironic", shouting graphic whore, biotards, etc...

Grow a spine etc. etc.

Is not a spine that is missing in me, is the ability to care anymore. Why should I dig throught so much bullshit, memes and one liners to find some content? Why should anyone? No point-of-view here is worth that much, and the best reviews are posted as news anyway. It just lost the point.

That's why most of the news now are "hey, look what this retarded said, let's rage on him!". The newfags that register now are here just for the lulz and the "best 'butthurt detected' comeback tournament." The Codex still is a great RPG news source, and the GRPGD is still enjoyable, just keep your distance from the Click here to comment link.

You seem to have missed alll the "çkçiwçiaiçaisidç tzkivksz uaks stuviskà ." dos poloneses locais.

A vontade é de entrar no warsong e no uol pra jogar o endereço daqui and see a beautifull Zerg rush of BRs.

 

[J_C]

I like how most people complaining about the 'decline' of the codex are shit posters.

Unlike you, how is a glorious member of Codex.

 

[Severian Silk]

Are you kidding? Back then there was Goatse and Tubgirl everywhere, and it was good.

The watershed moment for me will always be when Rex went apeshit and used the site as his personal platform. Were you here then?

 

[Excidium]

You seem to have missed alll the "çkçiwçiaiçaisidç tzkivksz uaks stuviskà ." dos poloneses locais.

A vontade é de entrar no warsong e no uol pra jogar o endereço daqui and see a beautifull Zerg rush of BRs.

Spoiler

HUEHUEHUEHUEHUE

Funny how you post something stupid like that after your decline speech on the previous page.

Go back to VT, please.

I like how most people complaining about the 'decline' of the codex are shit posters.

Unlike you, how is a glorious member of Codex.

Thank you, not many recognize that.

 

[felipepepe]

Funny how you post something stupid like that after your decline speech on the previous page.

It would be if my post was nothing but a pointless comment, like this one:

I like how most people complaining about the 'decline' of the codex are shit posters. lol

My post had far more than that. The issue is not having a "funny" post, is having ONLY those. If you post something usefull and a little nice joke at the end, well done.

 

[Clockwork Knight]

 

[Trash]

Trash has been whining about the Decline of teh Codex since... what, 7 years now?

Yup. The place has been going down the drain for ages.

His line that wit = 4chan is also one of the most things I've seen on here lately.

Oh, you silly. Heavy handed teutonic attempts at 'humor' is not wit.

Though I'll give you that the very childish post complaining about VoD being childish did give me a chuckle.

My work here is done.

 

[Gosling]

Funny how you post something stupid like that after your decline speech on the previous page.

It would be if my post was nothing but a pointless comment, like this one:

I like how most people complaining about the 'decline' of the codex are shit posters. lol

My post had far more than that. The issue is not having a "funny" post, is having ONLY those. If you post something usefull and a little nice joke at the end, well done.

Okay, if your are such a quality poster why are you:

1. derailing this thread (old codex tradition lolololol)
2. posting here your insightful remarks about how other people should behave, instead of following your own advice and participating in relevant and deep RPG discussions (discussing Alistair's personality, etc.) in other threads

???

 

[tindrli]

boring..

 

[Forest Dweller]

The most insightful post in this thread.

Doesn't say much considering the general level of... well I was going to say retardedness, but it's not, it's just weird.

Anyway, I can't be bothered making point by point replies to 5 pages, so here are my thoughts, neatly condensed:
- Jeff Vogel has officially gone retard: pick the single community on the 'net that loves his games, praises them to hell and back, and constantly advances them as buying recommendations, but who just happen to have mixed feelings about his latest game, and claim they want him dead.
- Jeff Vogel's also pulled a Gaider: take quotes out of context, ignore every single post that either praises his game or makes constructive criticism, and stick to the lame one-liners as the True Hivemind's Thoughts.
- Trash has been whining about the Decline of teh Codex since... what, 7 years now? His line that wit = 4chan is also one of the most things I've seen on here lately. Though I'll give you that the very childish post complaining about VoD being childish did give me a chuckle.
- On that topic, VoD's newspost is perfectly fine. Vogel has been in the news many times for saying this or that on his blog, when it concerns both Avadon and The Codex I don't see why it shouldn't be news.
- Claims that the Codex hates all new games: even more hilarious since the examples given were DAO and FNV. The former was voted best RPG of 2009 and one of the Codex official reviews considers it to be the best CRPG since Arcanum, the latter has had cautious to total approval given by pretty much everyone who hasn't replayed KOTOR 7 times, doesn't bring Michaelangelo into a discussion about JRPG's and who hadn't had his brain destroyed from playing and reviewing Arcania.
- Codex likes lots of new games. Drakensang ROT, Divinity 2, FNV, DAO, ME2, Risen, Gray Matter, all were praised by a substantial portion of the 'dex (and in the case of DKS and Risen, almost unanimously). Does this mean EVERYONE liked them? of course not. But did you actually expect this to happen? do we even want everyone to agree?

Oh and Blackadder

This. On pretty much all counts. Oh, and felipepepe, I WOULD like to know what you mean when you say "most," because 9 out of 10 people here praised New Vegas. A little over half here also liked Dragon Age. The fact that you could even mention those games with a straight face in order to prove your point just shows that you have tunnel vision when reading Codex posts. Bottom line: you're a faggot whose opinion doesn't matter.

 

[Topher]

Whatever, the guys being a little bitch and using the codex as his personal punching bag to get extra press. This place has become much more widely known ever since the Bioware boards/developers started mentioning us at every available opportunity and all Vogel wants, just like Bioware, is a fall guy to take the heat for all the negative criticism their recent game got so that when someone hears a bit of negativity about their title they can help ensure that it get's equated with a single site while hoping that prospective buyers who don't bother doing any actual research, i.e. almost all of them, will have a better chance of simply ignoring criticism that "supposedly" all comes from one single jaded website.