Game News Jeff Vogel Responding To Critics

[CorpseZeb]

by VD, not VoD. But VoD liked DAO too.

Right, sir. I stand corrected.

 

[SuicideBunny]

Most of the posters here can't even find the guts to say (at least openly) they liked Dragon Age: Origins or Fallout New Vegas (both great RPG's), just because they aren't "HARDCORE" or indie. They are afraid of looking like a newfag in front of all the "amazing old-school masters" we have here. You can even find some guys saying "yeah, Baldur's Gate 2 was already decline", with no argument behind, trying to be Codex Hipsters. How lame can you get?

um, new vegas was pretty much praised 'cept for a select few naysayers. da was praised enough that it made me buy that fucking piece of psychological torture and play it with consistently decreasing enthusiasm from session to session until i finally stopped bothering during the "derp roads" and just made some new characters to see the different origins since they are pretty much the only interesting thing about the whole game.
it's full of puerile shit like your character joking that dog likes to sniff morrigan because her panties are dirty. i am actually surprised they didn't scoop quite as low as to directly go for bestiality jokes although it certainly is implied in her conversations.
the fact that dao also fucked up exploration terribly and i score explorer primary on bartle didn't help matters either....

And most people here just stay on the PC (master race bla bla bla), talking about about shitty games like Sword and Sorcery - Underworld ("the only best dungeon crawler of 2010" - Etrian Odyssey III and SMT: Strange Journey are from 2010 too), just because is in their confort zone, and ignore that the Nintendo DS has many great RPG's, and MANY Dungeon Crawlers a lot better than the indie ones being released for PC. But people keep "ahn, anime-style art", "ahn, it's on a handheld CONSOLE, it must suck", "ahn, havn't even tried but I'm sure is too easy, just for kids". Yeah, right. It's a shame that even IGN DS reviewers talks about better RPG's than the fucking RPG Codex most of the time.

erh, define "most" 'coz there are several ds threads and a lot of appreciation going on for games like etrian odyssey, dark spire, smt/persona, or rance.

 

[Jasede]

Yes, New Vegas was good...

Wait, Dragon Age? Are you kidding? Get the hell out of my Codex, Biotard.

 

[felipepepe]

Do I really have to define the "most" in my quotes? Of course there are people here that know what they are saying, and some posts about the mentioned DS games, but they are a really minor part of the Codex nowadays, in both numbers and highlight. Most of the viewers just stay on the Latests News, trolling everything, and that's what the Codex represents for most people, codexers and outsiders alike. That's what Jeff Vogel seen and is talking about.

The Codex very much work in the reverse form of the Hype journalists.

Game "journalists": All new AAA game is destined to awesomeness. Only after some time has passed and another "awesome" game comes along you can start criticizing the first one.

Codex: All new AAA game is doomed to fail. Only after some time has passed and another "doomed" game comes along you can start praising the first one.

There are exceptions, of course, both for the journalist and the codexers, but is mostly this.

And I'm not saying you HAVE TO like DA:O, but things like "I fell asleep" or "derp roads" add nothing. On the other hand, I do agree it had a lot of puerile moments, especially with Alistair. I agree that exploration is broken, that it was a cliche story and that Awakening was one of the worst expansions I ever seen, with a horrible plot and no believable connection to the original game. That's the diference between discussing out the game flaws and just trying (and failing) to be funny.

EDIT: Don't worry Blackadder, I'm not calling you an "old 'RPG Master'". Being one requires much better irony and reading skills than yours.

 

[Clockwork Knight]

This place has always been like that. Liberal use of the ignore button tends to help those with a thin skin.

It's definitely gotten worse though, seems we have a lot more posters now who enjoy being dicks for it's own sake, rather than enjoying being able to voice their opinion on anything without worrying about being a dick.

That's simply because the Codex has more users now than 7 years ago (*gasp*). And even then, people were already complaining about how more users = more turds. Turns out more users also means more fucking quality posters, but the turds are more vocal.

 

[curry]

True. And Jeff Vogel is right, also.

...

Grow a spine guys. Talk about good RPG's you like, and why you don't like the bad one, not just keep posting "graphic whore" or "decline" hoping everyone notice how cool and "hardcore/old-school" you are.

Sup Jeff Vogel

 

[Mastermind]

Grow the fuck up, Ventilator. Your 4chandex newsposting is so shit that I immediately skip whatever it is as soon as I see your name at the top of the article.

I print out all his newsposts, dip them in menstrual blood then hang them from the shrine I built for him.

 

[commie]

Well regarding Avadon, maybe it's because I haven't played his older games, but I'm liking it after giving it a go due to all the hate it's getting. Pleasant on the eye, nice interface, lots of description, simple yet relaxing TB combat, nothing too hard, no vast neverending hordes of scum to bore through, just right for someone that wants to relax a bit with a game that doesn't require you to be hunched over and muttering, desperately trying to think up counters to impossible combat situations. When you have a ton f other shit to do, like working and looking after kids, you don't always want KotC or roguelikes (nevermind Bioware stuff) to chillax with.

 

[Mastermind]

BUT BROS IN HISNDEFENSE HOW MANY OTHER DEVCELOPERS LIKE IT HERE!!!!!

Seems to me that this number would be in direct correlation with the number of developers who (still) make good games.

I guess that explains why fagellone doesn't come here either.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Yes, New Vegas was good...

Wait, Dragon Age? Are you kidding? Get the hell out of my Codex, Biotard.

Yeah, get the fuck out, you filthy Biotard! And don't come back! Tell your masters that the Codex wasn't fooled by Dragon Age and said a firm "no" to it.

 

[Trash]

This place has always been like that.

It hasn't. That's the thing.

No Trash, your wrong. This place has always been like this. Year after year, always the same. 2007? Decline. 2008? Decline. 2009? Decline. 2010? Newfags. 2011? Same old, same old. And don't give us that shit that Codex was better bofore 2006, it never was.

It was good for about 3 hours in 2002.

 

[commie]

This place has always been like that.

It hasn't. That's the thing.

No Trash, your wrong. This place has always been like this. Year after year, always the same. 2007? Decline. 2008? Decline. 2009? Decline. 2010? Newfags. 2011? Same old, same old. And don't give us that shit that Codex was better bofore 2006, it never was.

It was good for about 3 hours in 2002.

Let me guess those three hours were between the time you signed up and the time you got butthurt from the first 'OP is a faggot' reply?

 

[Trash]

Nah, it were the three hours before I signed up.

 

[Achilles]

stuff

Why are some people so obsessed with telling others what to play, where to play it and where to play it on? Who is stopping you, or anyone else for that matter, from coming to the Codex and posting about whatever game you like? Did someone forbid you to talk about anime DS jrpgs? I like gaming on PC and I have no desire to buy a console, does that somehow offend you?

Go to RPG discussion, start a topic and state your opinion. Are you afraid that people will call you a faggot or retard? So what? I said that I liked DA2 and, apart from a bit of verbal abuse (and a couple of people putting me in their ignore list) nothing happened.

Go on then, if you think you have found a gem of an RPG and people don't know about it, post in GRPGD and share that knowledge. Who's stopping you? It's surely much better than telling other people that "they're doing it wrong".

 

[laclongquan]

You say few people here actually enjoy CRPG's...and then the last bit...what does that mean?

I was just expecting "the average joe" of this forum to reply to me something like "if you're not happy about how it is here, get the fuck out ". I was acknowledging it. Am i clear ? ( my english is not excellent i'd give you that ).

Sorry old chap, but our standard response works like this "So you dont like it here? You hate our aggressiveness? Our political Uncorrectness? Our eclectic taste in games? Really hate it? Why dont you... make a post and rant about it? We are all agog to hear your piece. Then we will make fun of ANY, any at all, any weak point in your post."

Make fun of new guys is the baptism of fire around here. The rarest of the rare is the new guy who can make a post that the most a Codexer can do is nyer nyer about it, or just "OP is a faggot."

 

[laclongquan]

If I was rich, actually was interested enough to check it out, thought the game had potential and it only took a single mouse click after reading this:

By TPB, the poster means The Pirate Bay. In other words, he's saying to go pirate it. I honestly think that most of these complaints are not sincere. They're just pretending the game is bad to justify their pirating it (and playing the whole thing three times). Another good reason to be very careful about whose feedback you accept.

I'd pirate it with a big fat smile on my face

Sorry, but I have never TPB or sharesite a game of Jeff.

No, it's true.

Really.

They are just not that interesting to bother.

 

[Carlos' Bitch1]

And I'm not saying you HAVE TO like DA:O, but things like "I fell asleep" or "derp roads" add nothing. On the other hand, I do agree it had a lot of puerile moments, especially with Alistair. I agree that exploration is broken, that it was a cliche story and that Awakening was one of the worst expansions I ever seen, with a horrible plot and no believable connection to the original game. That's the diference between discussing out the game flaws and just trying (and failing) to be funny.

Oh yes, the detail is staggering. Simply staggering.

"A lot of purile moments, especially with Alistair"...yes, I totally know what you are talking about. So much more detail and information than "I fell asleep"...

"The exploration is broken" makes "derp roads" look terrible. My mind link can pick up what you meant though.

"Cliche story"...yes, the mindlink is still working thankfully. I know it is a cliche story because you said it was.

Well, you have really made your point Felipe. Your insight and ability to explain yourself clearly marks a difference as opposed to those trying to be funny. I stand corrected.

 

[felipepepe]

stuff

Why are some people so obsessed with telling others what to play, where to play it and where to play it on? Who is stopping you, or anyone else for that matter, from coming to the Codex and posting about whatever game you like? Did someone forbid you to talk about anime DS jrpgs? I like gaming on PC and I have no desire to buy a console, does that somehow offend you?

Go to RPG discussion, start a topic and state your opinion. Are you afraid that people will call you a faggot or retard? So what? I said that I liked DA2 and, apart from a bit of verbal abuse (and a couple of people putting me in their ignore list) nothing happened.

Go on then, if you think you have found a gem of an RPG and people don't know about it, post in GRPGD and share that knowledge. Who's stopping you? It's surely much better than telling other people that "they're doing it wrong".

I'm saying that "they're doing it wrong" as much as you are saying I'm doing it wrong. We are both on the same side, saying this should be (was?) a place about pointing out great games and why they are great, and pointing out bad games and why they are bad. Not just trolling everything.

I like DS RPGs, you like DA2. That, for some stupid reason, is "unCodexian". We both can come here and post about it, but any discussion we can have about why we like, and if should other people try them is overwhelmed by assholes being "ironic", shouting graphic whore, biotards, etc...

Sure, you can ignore them, but the effort to discuss anything here is getting too high compared to the results. Althoug the GRPGD is still hundreds time better than the Lastest News, is also getting more and more filled with trolls. The overall standard of the Codex is just what Jeff Vogel said, people who like RPG's, and LOVE to hate. This is what the newfags see and try to copy, to be cool & "codexian". Last time I checked, this was the RPG Codex, not HATE Codex.

EDIT:

Oh yes, the detail is staggering. Simply staggering.

Anyone that already seen an review of a game around here knows that the reviewer writes 2 pages about a game just to get massive feedback like "I stopped at X", "tried. fell asleep.", "EA fucked everything" and 1 line premade shit like that and very few actual discussion. So yes, I should tottaly write an detailed review of DA:O just to prove my point to you.

 

[Trash]

Well, that was exactly my point earlier. At some point the administration decided that acting out against retards was a waste of time and the quest for lulz would take presedence.

 

[Jasede]

Yes, New Vegas was good...

Wait, Dragon Age? Are you kidding? Get the hell out of my Codex, Biotard.

Yeah, get the fuck out, you filthy Biotard! And don't come back! Tell your masters that the Codex wasn't fooled by Dragon Age and said a firm "no" to it.

Irrelevant. The game is terrible because I said so. In my world, my space of experience and perception, nothing can change that.

NO to Dragon Age!

 

[SuicideBunny]

things like "derp roads" add nothing.

maybe, but it should be understandable by anyone who played da, regardless of whether they liked it or not, what i want to express by mocking the name of the most tedious and boring area in the whole game.

 

[Mortmal]

A few quotes taken out of their context, ignoring the constructive crticism, just to pose as a martyr.
I am surprised by such dishonesty from him , avernum and geneforge got their full share of praises, big genuine praises, but he never noticed it ? truly ? Damn some people even quote his games in "whats your favorite rpg ever" thread.
Now that for the sure , the game is selling , hes convinced hes on the right way the streamlining will continue.I am sure spiderweb will release an action rpg with real time combat on the ipad soon.

 

[mangsy]

Well, given that what the Codex perceives as the main problem with Avadon -- that it does away with both what made Geneforge good (C&C) and what made Exile/Avernum decent (dungeon crawling) -- is clearly Vogel's conscious design decision, it's pretty obvious he couldn't have responded in any other way. It's just that his model have always been Bioware-like games but, paradoxically, as long as they failed to come close to that model his games remained pretty good -- but now that, it seems, he's finally released a game of his dream, one that perfectly fits the Bioware formula (fake C&C and dialogue choices, forced main quest linearity, party banter, etc.), the rift between what he and what the Codex considers superior has finally become perfectly clear. And there can be no compromise here.

The most insightful post in this thread.

 

[felipepepe]

Well, that was exactly my point earlier. At some point the administration decided that acting out against retards was a waste of time and the quest for lulz would take presedence.

Yeah, no offense, but I don't see any administration activity besides posting news. It's even possible that if I write in another language nada aconteça comigo, né? Not saying we should have a Stanley Woo spaming END OF THE LINE all around, but there is middle ground...on a personal note , maybe they like this trolling around way of life...

]things like "derp roads" add nothing.

maybe, but it should be understandable by anyone who played da, regardless of whether they liked it or not, what i want to express by mocking the name of the most tedious and boring area in the whole game.

You were just the closest example, nothing personal. I understand what you wrote, and agree it could been a lot better, but that is the kind of post we were getting when the game was launched. It's the same as Jeff releasing an RPG game and getting "Got bored with the demo as soon as I was sent to the beginner dungeon to fight rats and spiders. What a lousy piece of shit game." or "Jeff Vogel went full retard" as feedback. If you went through the trouble of downloading and playing the game, and you are in a forum about discussing RPG's, why post something so useless as this? Sorry, there is no constructive crticism to be found here.

 

[Severian Silk]

I bought Avernum 4-6 based on recommendations from the Codex. That said, thread quality has sort of declined over the past 6 or more years.