Game News Josh Sawyer's GDC Next Presentation Slides

[Apexeon]

Well the art will be good and I rate the IE engine art/music as the best in the game industry.
But the gameplay will still be Command and conquer with a pause button. Amazing thing is that the
gamming public 6 pack joe probably can't handle controlling 6 characters and run back to Skyrim/ FPS Ramborim.

2D ray traced and probably photoshoped enhanced will always **** all over 3D vomit like Skyrim.
When I look at the trash these big FPS game makers pump out its just rubbish. But the gaming public lap it up like a pack of
thirsty dogs hitting the quick time event button.

 

[Severian Silk]

The game is looking good. Too bad it's RTwP.

 

[MrBuzzKill]

Such a pity that it will suffer from Sawyerist balancing crap.

I guess I've been missing out on a lot of new opinions... What do you mean by "Sawyerist balancing crap"?

 

[Infinitron]

I guess I've been missing out on a lot of new opinions... What do you mean by "Sawyerist balancing crap"?

See that 1000 page thread in General RPG Discussion? Start reading!

 

[TwinkieGorilla]

All the characters are staring toward the ground with their arms pointing downward.

So this is right up your alley or...?

 

[2house2fly]

The gist of "sawyerist balancing crap" is, Josh Sawyer(head guy in charge of Project Eternity) believes that there should be no objectively "best" build that all players should take or they're idiots, but rather that a genre of game which allows for a variety of choices for character builds and skillsets should allow for a commensurate variety of viable ways to play through the game.

this is bad somehow

 

[CrazyLoon]

Why is there a black chick? Can there not be a fantasy setting with some form of racial consistency?

 

[2house2fly]

I think they're planning for a future game where everyone will be black.

 

[Infinitron]

Why is there a black chick? Can there not be a fantasy setting with some form of racial consistency?

http://eternity.gamepedia.com/Vailian

 

[SuicideBunny]

Why is there a black chick? Can there not be a fantasy setting with some form of racial consistency?

wat

 

[Zeriel]

The gist of "sawyerist balancing crap" is, Josh Sawyer(head guy in charge of Project Eternity) believes that there should be no objectively "best" build that all players should take or they're idiots, but rather that a genre of game which allows for a variety of choices for character builds and skillsets should allow for a commensurate variety of viable ways to play through the game.

this is bad somehow

It's bad because it tends to lead to boring systems where everything is mandated to be equivelant, and hence identical underneath a gloss intended to make them seem different. Theoretically it doesn't have to, but theoretically Communism is also one of the best forms of government.

 

[Infinitron]

Are the Zerg, Terrans and Protoss "equivalent"?

I don't know about you guys, but I've long been waiting for a game that finally succeeds in bringing the combat qualities (which include balance) of a good RTS/TBS to the CRPG genre. I hope Project Eternity can be that game and if anybody has what it takes to do it, it's JE Sawyer.

 

[Zetor]

For me, the only worthwhile rtwp game was Freedom Force. /troll

(seriously though, FF is a great game. play it.)

 

[SuicideBunny]

The gist of "sawyerist balancing crap" is, Josh Sawyer(head guy in charge of Project Eternity) believes that there should be no objectively "best" build that all players should take or they're idiots, but rather that a genre of game which allows for a variety of choices for character builds and skillsets should allow for a commensurate variety of viable ways to play through the game.

this is bad somehow

It's bad because it tends to lead to boring systems where everything is mandated to be equivelant, and hence identical underneath a gloss intended to make them seem different. Theoretically it doesn't have to, but theoretically Communism is also one of the best forms of government.

"tends to" sounds as if it is somewhat the fault of that design goal itself and not lazyass devs without analytical skills who go the route of least resistance and work by making everything the same.

 

[MrBuzzKill]

The gist of "sawyerist balancing crap" is, Josh Sawyer(head guy in charge of Project Eternity) believes that there should be no objectively "best" build that all players should take or they're idiots, but rather that a genre of game which allows for a variety of choices for character builds and skillsets should allow for a commensurate variety of viable ways to play through the game.

this is bad somehow

Thanks for actually answering. I'm not into designing game systems, so I don't have an opinion on the subject, I just hope the game will be as interesting as it is pretty.

 

[ZagorTeNej]

Are the Zerg, Terrans and Protoss "equivalent"?

I don't know about you guys, but I've long been waiting for a game that finally succeeds in bringing the combat qualities (which include balance) of a good RTS/TBS to the CRPG genre. I hope Project Eternity can be that game and if anybody has what it takes to do it, it's JE Sawyer.

Not everyone subscribes to the idea that RPGs (even RTWP party based ones) are supposed to be mini strategy games with stats.

Regardless IIRC you once said you want balance through complexity not simplicity and if that's the case I'm not sure Sawyer is the one you can expect to deliver that as the man has a tendency to merge or just outright cut skills/attributes as he sees fit instead of improving them (think of using one stat for all damage, even Diablo 1 was more complex than that or his ideas about Van Buren years ago), a simpler system is much easier to balance than a complex one with multitude of options.

I mean you have to admit that the guy set some hefty goals ahead of him, making PE both a baby first RPG and the game that appeals to "old-school" RPG fans, having every build be viable (mind you, I think the goal should always be to have a wide variety of viable, interesting builds but Sawyer is going to an extreme, character creation shouldn't be an afterthought and should carry some consequences), no dump stats whatsoever (and yes I realize we know very little about stats/attributes at this time) etc.

Don't get me wrong, I think he'll partially succeed and have little doubt this will be the best Obsidian game yet when it comes to combat gameplay (I realize that's not saying much considering it mostly sucked in their other games) but Josh's (somewhat extreme) design approach definitely comes with its own dangers and may result in a rather bland experience in the end which will have to be salvaged with Obsidian's great writing/C&C/quest design.

 

[Zeriel]

Are the Zerg, Terrans and Protoss "equivalent"?

I don't know about you guys, but I've long been waiting for a game that finally succeeds in bringing the combat qualities (which include balance) of a good RTS/TBS to the CRPG genre. I hope Project Eternity can be that game and if anybody has what it takes to do it, it's JE Sawyer.

Nah, they're actually very different. And have serious balance issues as a result. That's kind of the point--Zerg, Terrans, and Protoss as they exist in SC2 would never exist in a Sawyer game, because his design school loves to use basic building blocks that are all fundamentally the same to unify mechanics under the hood, while applying flavor and thematic polish on top to make them seem like different "options".

Warcraft 2 is the RTS equivelant of what Sawyer likes. Every unit in the game is mirrored across both sides (Orcs & Humans), with identical stats. The only difference is some minor spells/abilities (Bloodlust on Ogres vs. healing on knights, while ogres and knights both have identical damage/HP).

 

[Roguey]

Not everyone subscribes to the idea that RPGs (even RTWP party based ones) are supposed to be mini strategy games with stats.

The primary method of conflict resolution in this game is real time tactics so that should be done as well as possible. The same goes for any RPG where the pmocr is turn based tactics, shooting, brawling, and so on.

 

[Rivmusique]

Are the Zerg, Terrans and Protoss "equivalent"?

I don't know about you guys, but I've long been waiting for a game that finally succeeds in bringing the combat qualities (which include balance) of a good RTS/TBS to the CRPG genre. I hope Project Eternity can be that game and if anybody has what it takes to do it, it's JE Sawyer.

Nah, they're actually very different. And have serious balance issues as a result. That's kind of the point--Zerg, Terrans, and Protoss as they exist in SC2 would never exist in a Sawyer game, because his design school loves to use basic building blocks that are all fundamentally the same to unify mechanics under the hood, while applying flavor and thematic polish on top to make them seem like different "options".

Warcraft 2 is the RTS equivelant of what Sawyer likes. Every unit in the game is mirrored across both sides (Orcs & Humans), with identical stats. The only difference is some minor spells/abilities (Bloodlust on Ogres vs. healing on knights, while ogres and knights both have identical damage/HP).

Is there a reason to think that? Sawyer has said that alternate builds will excel in different combat situations. Suggests they play differently to me, rather than just look different. The balancing comes in giving the variety of possible party compositions all a decent amount of encounters to shine against.

 

[FeelTheRads]

if anybody has what it takes to do it, it's JE Sawyer.

Talking a lot of shit is hardly proof that he has what it takes.

in bringing the combat qualities (which include balance) of a good RTS/TBS to the CRPG genre

So, what would be a good TB with a good balance?
Just curios, I know PE is not TB, but even so I disagree that RPGs have to be turned into strategy games.

First and foremost RPGs are about playing with stats. Sawyer denies that, so he really doesn't have what it takes to make an RPG. He should do strategies maybe. He'd still suck, but maybe would fit him better.

 

[Infinitron]

Yes, we have descriptions of enough classes to know that they don't play identically if you use them to their fullest strengths.

Of course, if the combat is too easy, then you could get by using a Paladin or a Barbarian like a reskinned Fighter, etc. That's why it all comes down to good encounter design in the end. If your game's fights aren't hard enough, then they're all going to feel samey no matter how many cool abilities you have. See - BioShock.

 

[asper]

Looks really nice. Lots of nitpicky whining in this thread, so I'll add mine..

I still regret they didn't get Justin Sweet to paint the portraits...

 

[Grotesque]

"My goal with balancing choices in PE is to promote viability rather than to eliminate *~ power buildz ~*. If we spend time implementing options that are so obviously bad that no one (or almost no one) will take them, no one benefits." -J.S.

Here is a little quote for all the morons on this forum, from Josh with love.

 

[FeelTheRads]

Stupid quote as always.

1. How is a build obviously bad? I thought the whining was that you are not informed it's bad and you discover later that there are stronger ones so waaaah I'm being punished for my choice
2. Since when viable means everyone wants to play it?
3. You don't implement "bad" builds. They're the result of complex systems. Goddamn. Implementing bad builds. WHAT. THE. FUCK.

 

[tuluse]

Stupid quote as always.

1. How is a build obviously bad? I thought the whining was that you are not informed it's bad and you discover later that there are stronger ones so waaaah I'm being punished for my choice

I think he means that even someone brand new to video games can figure out it's a bad idea to make a 5 STR fighter in dnd. You don't have to retard proof that much.