Game News Kickstarter Drama: Conquistador, Shadowrun and Eisenwald

[Mastermind]

@ Mastermind: Publishers will not rely on your donations, thus making your whole argument invalid.

Kickstarter doesn't rely on "donations" either, you get stuff for the money you spend. The process is different but the basic structure is the same: you pay for a product.

 

[Bizarro Jimmy Olsen]

Kickstarter games are paid for by the customer, not "the masses", just like publisher games. The reason we're getting shit games is because gaming became so wildly popular that big budget games have to have mass appeal. But that doesn't mean niche kickstarter products specifically targeted at us won't be any good.

Right. And "the collective" doesn't usually get to decide the game's content, the tiny handful of developers does, i.e. the oligarchs. If the "masses" like that, they donate, or donate more. If they don't like the stretch goals the oligarchs set, they take their money elsewhere.

 

[Mother Russia]

So...what exactly happened to Eisenwald? It was mostly done almost a year ago...

 

[Gakkone]

So...what exactly happened to Eisenwald? It was mostly done almost a year ago...

There was some info on it in the Gamescom report:

Dergay has travelled to Germany from Belarus to make a deal concerning the retail distribution of his game, which will hopefully be launching in Q4 2013. The huge smile that has so far been plastered across the man's face dims somewhat as he relates his experiences so far. “Most publishers tell me that Q4 isn't so good. A lot of competition during that time. Well, we want to get the game out as soon as it is finished, so we don't let our backers wait more than necessary. If these guys don't want to help us get it out during Q4, well, it's their loss.” Though Dergay is visibly happy and gives honest expression to his fondness for the Codex community, whom he refers to as “some of the guys who made all this possible,” it is clear that leading the development of such a niche title through sheer force of will is a heavy burden, and Dergay looks like he's been running all day. Even so, he takes an immense amount of pride in his work, and it is with thinly veiled enthusiasm that he shows me a work-in-progress version of the launch trailer for Legends of Eisenwald.

My conversation with Dergay is an enlightening one. The basic systems of Legends of Eisenwald are complete, the story is complete, the scenario design is complete. In essence, the entire game is all but complete, feature-wise. But that's not what's causing the team to feel pressured - ensuring that the content is polished and complete is. “You have to understand,” Dergay says, “that these scenarios can be very complex, and we have to deliver the content without error. Computers are fickle creatures. Suddenly, some players might report a crash at the endgame of a scenario, and it will be impossible – actually impossible – for us to reproduce. And don't get me started on Windows 8. All this needs to be done, needs to be finished, by the time we launch.”

 

[Reapa]

Reapa said: ↑
@ Mastermind: Publishers will not rely on your donations, thus making your whole argument invalid.
Kickstarter doesn't rely on "donations" either, you get stuff for the money you spend. The process is different but the basic structure is the same: you pay for a product.

My whole point is that you do NOT get anything out of it. you just assume it (hope).
And saying, well if they don't deliver then they lose reputation is just dumb, because people who beg have no reputation to lose in the first place and if you say you won't support them in the future it means nothing because you already lost some money on such an obviously flawed system.
And then there's a weird theory i've read about here that some of these devs will refund to unsatisfied costumers donors - bullshit! If enough costumers donors are unsatisfied they simply do not have the money to refund, even if they wanted to which is very much unlikely since it's all about donations.

 

[DeepOcean]

Reapa said: ↑
@ Mastermind: Publishers will not rely on your donations, thus making your whole argument invalid.
Kickstarter doesn't rely on "donations" either, you get stuff for the money you spend. The process is different but the basic structure is the same: you pay for a product.

My whole point is that you do NOT get anything out of it. you just assume it (hope).
And saying, well if they don't deliver then they lose reputation is just dumb, because people who beg have no reputation to lose in the first place and if you say you won't support them in the future it means nothing because you already lost some money on such an obviously flawed system.
And then there's a weird theory i've read about here that some of these devs will refund to unsatisfied costumers donors - bullshit! If enough costumers donors are unsatisfied they simply do not have the money to refund, even if they wanted to which is very much unlikely since it's all about donations.

Man, this was discussed over and over and over again since the Double Fine kickstarter. Most kickstarters I keep an eye on are going ok, some will deliver and others are going to fail on the hype they generated, just like any publisher funded game. There are scams like Takedown and GODUS (Why people still hopes Peter Molyneux is going to release something decent, at this point is a mystery.) but there are good things being made. On the adventure front, there are the Infamous Quest guys, the Himalaia guys, STASIS is going to enter on kickstarter soon, the Tex Murphy guys are awesome, Broken sword appears to be going well, Larry was released and it was a good adventure game.

Most ex-Sierra developer kickstarters are doing ok, some with more problems than others. On the RPG side. Conquistador was better than expected, Einsewald is coming, Shadowrun was released and it was a decent game but disapointed many people more because some stupid design decisions than something that is kickstarter fault, Wasteland 2 is coming and I really believe on the worst situation we are going to get a decent game and at the best situation, we are going to get the so wanted cRPG revival, Project Eternity is going ok and if Sawyer manages to not end the fun it will be a BG 2 sucessor but this time with good writing. Kickstarter works but it isn't something that is stupidity proof, nothing is, developers can always be dumbfucks at any time with publisher or not and make really stupid design decisions that can ruin any of those games.

 

[Reapa]

Project Eternity is going ok

This does weaken your argument somewhat - maybe if you don't expect much you don't get as disappointed.
Project Eternity was a fail from the start. Bragging about how it's going to be like bg 2 and then making a whole new system instead of keeping D&D rules which are not only quite complex but also never disappointed anyone is insane. Just think of the money and time wasted on planing, testing, balancing a fucking whole new system instead of keeping one that was good from the start and didn't need any changes. And does anyone really thing anything they could do would even nearly resemble the depth of D&D? And after investing all that time and money on new rules, do you think there will be any left for good writing? they do have to work on other things as well like the things they continue to brag about, like who can fuck whom in the game and what clothes do they have to wear while doing that(yes I'm talking about romance bullshit), also graphics, npcs, characters, 3d effects, bug removals, etc... who will be writing good quests for 2 fucking major cities and how major will they be? + here are no updates on anything the game can already do. there aren't even any game play trailers out - no demos, not even more then one or two game screenshots. http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/64238-update-61-in-game-art/ their homepage still poses with games they have done in the past and a lot of talk. And where's the fucking interface? you can almost always tell if a game is going to be good just by looking at the interface, but they probably don't have any yet with all the bullshit they are still working on.
So what is going "ok" and how do you know?

 

[Infinitron]

Don't feed the Reapa, folks.

ignorelist++

 

[Reapa]

On the adventure front, there are the Infamous Quest guys, the Himalaia guys, STASIS is going to enter on kickstarter soon, the Tex Murphy guys are awesome, Broken sword appears to be going well, Larry was released and it was a good adventure game.

Are we still on the rpg codex? because i don't really give a shit about good adventure games. Given enough patience you can manage to play any adventure game and say its good. They are mainly about the story. Got a good story, got a good adventure game - doesn't prove anything.

 

[Reapa]

And conquistador didn't seem like much of an rpg to me. I remember doing something somewhere in that game and suddenly reallising it was already over and not feeling the need to play it again.

 

[tuluse]

They couldn't keep AD&D if they wanted to.

 

[JarlFrank]

Good puzzles are also a part of adventure games many adventure gamers enjoy.

 

[JarlFrank]

And conquistador didn't seem like much of an rpg to me. I remember doing something somewhere in that game and suddenly reallising it was already over and not feeling the need to play it again.

Yes, but it delivered exactly what was promised in the kickstarter. It never claimed to be more than what it was, it made its pitch, people thought that's worth pledging for, and it turned out exactly as promised and the people who pledged to it were not disappointed because they got exactly what they expected.

 

[Reapa]

If this is an rpg then all is lost.

 

[Reapa]

JarlFrank
didn't infinitron tell you not to feed the reapa? XD
it seems adventure game fans also get what they want - i've already dismissed that as a sign for incline.

 

[Reapa]

They couldn't keep AD&D if they wanted to.

why?

 

[JarlFrank]

If this is an rpg then all is lost.

Are you fucking retarded? I expected more of you, pal.
Look for Shadowrun Returns instead. This shooter you linked is generally considered to be shit and decline and is something entirely different from the kickstarted SR game.

 

[tuluse]

why?

 

[Gakkone]

 

[Grunker]

They couldn't keep AD&D if they wanted to.

They could, however, have went for 3.5 or, even better, Pathfinder

 

[tuluse]

You're not going to trick me into having a real conversation in this shit post extravaganza Grunker.

 

[Monty]

Yes, someone who has made 100 posts since 2009 suddenly starts multiple posting all over the news forum. Suspect.

 

[Reapa]

Yes, someone who has made 100 posts since 2009 suddenly starts multiple posting all over the news forum. Suspect.

I was busy playing.

 

[Irenaeus]

I am here to teach you fear...

 

[Grunker]

You're not going to trick me into having a real conversation in this shit post extravaganza Grunker.

Almost fucking got you. The following between you and Reapa would have been beautiful