Kingdom Come combat is awful

[Drakortha]

I've given my opinion in the KCD thread months ago, and then left.

I can't find ANY post by you in the KCD1 thread and only one post in the sequel thread where you talk about Sawyer.

You sure you haven't dumped your garbage take in the wrong thread?

I'm not going looking for it. I just remember making a harmless comment about finding the setting in KCD boring. I wasn't being harsh or anything, but I got group tackled by half a dozen fanboys, so I had to defend myself for like 2 pages until I called it quits. I didn't care enough to put up with it.

 

[cvv]

I've given my opinion in the KCD thread months ago, and then left.

I can't find ANY post by you in the KCD1 thread and only one post in the sequel thread where you talk about Sawyer.

You sure you haven't dumped your garbage take in the wrong thread?

I'm not going looking for it. I just remember making a harmless comment about finding the setting in KCD boring.

Well, as long as you're absolutely sure you've actually played the game and not just watched a video or something right? Ok.

 

[Quillon]

Kingdom Come combat is awful,

More like someone got filtered

Difficulty is awesome, especially because it is the best indicator of failure. When mastering a difficult system does not feel rewarding

You're right for at least three wrong reasons.

KCD1 combat isn't stellar

1. but not because it's "simulationist"
2. it's not really difficult difficult, not in the same way as FromSoft games are, coz it's primarily testing your ability to learn, pay attention and think without putting too much strain on your mechanical skills - reactions, hand-eye coordination etc.
3. however flawed it is, it absolutely IS rewarding to master; it's clear you haven't gotten too far

It's clearly a case of someone being filtered - unwilling to pay attention, was punished, got buttmad, proceeded to justify his failure by claiming simulashunism something something. Ok bruh.

KCD1 combat is... someone hatched an idea for directional sword attacks etc. that looked cool in the beginning then they put too much effort in it make it work which they couldn't back out from dispite it turning out mostly not fun nor sensible. Not expecting great improvements from the sequel either.

 

[Yosharian]

I'm astonished that they are doing nothing more than tweaking the combat for KCD2...it is what it is I guess

 

[Thalstarion]

KCD1 combat is... someone hatched an idea for directional sword attacks etc. that looked cool in the beginning then they put too much effort in it make it work which they couldn't back out from dispite it turning out mostly not fun nor sensible. Not expecting great improvements from the sequel either.

It's not the best combat system around, far from it, though I can stomach it simply because I've forced myself to endure many janky elements in games that I have played over the years.

Odd, perhaps, though I'd rather stomach clunky, awkward and frustrating combat so long as the story and world-building is decent. If the latter is compromised, after all, then it means that subversive messaging is present and that is the graver sin in my eyes.

The ideal would be for both combat and story/world-building to be above average but that is an unfortunate rarity these days.

 

[PulsatingBrain]

I think KCD1 with improvements sounds great actually. It doesn't need a complete overhaul. What they do need is a companion or party system, so I can actually fight a group of people without picking them off from a distance or poisoning them all.

 

[cvv]

KCD1 combat is... someone hatched an idea for directional sword attacks etc. that looked cool in the beginning then they put too much effort in it make it work which they couldn't back out from dispite it turning out mostly not fun nor sensible.

I don't know... as a KCD fanboy I was mostly meh'd by the combat but I don't think it's fundamentally flawed. It's definitely not true the directional system is the problem, it's more like the opposite - master strikes are broken, therefore combos don't matter, therefore the entire directional system is pointless and nobody ever uses it.

From early-mid game the entire combat boils down to this:
1. Easy opponents (homeless poorfags with pitchforks) - you just brainlessly mash the attack button and kill them with one or two swings.
2. Harder opponents (bandits or knights in full plates) - you passively circle the dude for five minutes and wait for him to attack; when he does you master-strike him.

THAT'S the combat's main problem - it's not properly thought out. And also visually one of the jankiest elements of the game, to be honest. If they manage to smooth it out and properly tune the various nuts and bolts (as they're promising) in the sequel it could actually be very enjoyable.

 

[Paul_cz]

KCD1 combat is one of the best ever when masterstrikes are modded out and combat is 1v1

It becomes clunkoided versus multiple opponents due to lock on being too unwieldy

but still fun, and much better than the usual first person bashfest

 

[Lyric Suite]

I played with the combat mod (lite version) and the no slow-mo right off the bat so i never got to experience the game without them.

Frankly, this is the kind of game where combat should have been kept to a minimum. I actually found the constant ambushes and enemy camps irritating after a while. The highlight of the game was the immersion and the quests, and eventually i started dealing with the combat in a "realistic" way, by avoiding it, and when i did clear camps, i did it with stealth, which was highly entertaining even if eventually it became trivial after maxing my skills.

 

[Zlaja]

I'm not going looking for it. I just remember making a harmless comment about finding the setting in KCD boring.

While I don't agree with you that the setting is boring, I can understand that some people won't be into it. What I absolutely cannot understand though is how anyone on this site can argue that the melee combat in Oblivion is better than melee combat in KCD. And no, that's not necessarily some high praise for the combat in KCD.

 

[Lyric Suite]

WTF the setting was one of the best things about the game lmao.

What happened to the Codex? Why is it full of faggots?

 

[DKunit]

Man, Avowed is so fucking dull that we're arguing about KCD instead.

 

[Quillon]

KCD1 combat is... someone hatched an idea for directional sword attacks etc. that looked cool in the beginning then they put too much effort in it make it work which they couldn't back out from dispite it turning out mostly not fun nor sensible.

I don't know... as a KCD fanboy I was mostly meh'd by the combat but I don't think it's fundamentally flawed. It's definitely not true the directional system is the problem, it's more like the opposite - master strikes are broken, therefore combos don't matter, therefore the entire directional system is pointless and nobody ever uses it.

From early-mid game the entire combat boils down to this:
1. Easy opponents (homeless poorfags with pitchforks) - you just brainlessly mash the attack button and kill them with one or two swings.
2. Harder opponents (bandits or knights in full plates) - you passively circle the dude for five minutes and wait for him to attack; when he does you master-strike him.

THAT'S the combat's main problem - it's not properly thought out. And also visually one of the jankiest elements of the game, to be honest. If they manage to smooth it out and properly tune the various nuts and bolts (as they're promising) in the sequel it could actually be very enjoyable.

I didn't mean directional system is the problem, just said it to describe the combat system in that sentence But now that I think about it directional system requiring locking onto single enemy so rigidly and most of the time damage not even registering when you try to hit without properly locking onto a target was another big problem.

 

[Rieser]

Why are there faggots whinging about KCD's setting in the Avowed thread of all places? Too few faggot elves and furries in KCD? Not enough melanin?

 

[Grunker]

WTF the setting was one of the best things about the game lmao.

What happened to the Codex? Why is it full of faggots?

KCD’s setting was fucking fantastic, and it’s funny that you remark on avoiding combat after attacking me for criticizing it. I completely agree with your assessment that KCD is a testament to a singular vision in the best of its quests, and at its worst when it fights its nature by doing its crappy, simulationist combat. Some quests are marred by this approach as well, but when KCD focuses on the good quest lines and its setting, it’s a beautiful game

 

[cvv]

at its worst when it fights its nature by doing its crappy, simulationist combat

The "simulationist" combat corresponds to the realistic nature of the game. You can't exactly make a game leaning so heavily into immersion and realism with some arkadey button mashing Bethesda style combat.

 

[Drakortha]

I'm not going looking for it. I just remember making a harmless comment about finding the setting in KCD boring.

While I don't agree with you that the setting is boring, I can understand that some people won't be into it. What I absolutely cannot understand though is how anyone on this site can argue that the melee combat in Oblivion is better than melee combat in KCD. And no, that's not necessarily some high praise for the combat in KCD.

Oblivon is just more amusing really.

 

[Hace El Oso]

The "simulationist" combat corresponds to the realistic nature of the game. You can't exactly make a game leaning so heavily into immersion and realism with some arkadey button mashing Bethesda style combat.

I just want to know who taught all the unarmed beggars and dungeating peasants Kung-Fu.

 

[Fedora Master]

If you keep this up (((you know who))) will split the thread.

 

[Lyric Suite]

The "simulationist" combat corresponds to the realistic nature of the game. You can't exactly make a game leaning so heavily into immersion and realism with some arkadey button mashing Bethesda style combat.

I just want to know who taught all the unarmed beggars and dungeating peasants Kung-Fu.

We've been over this many times. Nobody is saying that the execution couldn't have been better but that's not an argument against the idea of a simulationist approach to combat.

If you can't even accept what the game was try to do you should go play something else. Obviously the game wasn't meant for you.

 

[Hace El Oso]

We've been over this many times. Nobody is saying that the execution couldn't have been better but that's not an argument against the idea of a simulationist approach to combat.

If you can't even accept what the game was try to do you should go play something else. Obviously the game wasn't meant for you.

I don’t really blame them, they were trying to create something more faithful and engaging than ‘the usual’, which we see taken to the terminal extreme with Avowed. But things like Kung-Fu beggars were so tiresome without modding out Master Strikes, you have to at least laugh about it.

 

[Lyric Suite]

We've been over this many times. Nobody is saying that the execution couldn't have been better but that's not an argument against the idea of a simulationist approach to combat.

If you can't even accept what the game was try to do you should go play something else. Obviously the game wasn't meant for you.

I don’t really blame them, they were trying to create something more faithful and engaging than ‘the usual’, which we see taken to the terminal extreme with Avowed. But things like Kung-Fu beggars were so tiresome without modding out Master Strikes, you have to at least laugh about it.

But Kingdom Come wasn't trying to avoid the "usual" as if the object was to be different for the sake of being different. Simulationism has a long history in computer games, especially PC gaming. While Kingdom Come isn't exactly a medieval Arma it obviously inherits some of the same design philosophy.

It's perfectly legitimate to critisize the implementation, but to argue the game should have opted for a more "arcade" style gameplay is to miss the point entirely, not to mention the fact there are plenty of arcadish combat systems that are complete shit or at the very least aren't particularly better in implementation (Witcher, Skyrim etc) so it's not like you can narrow the problem to the style of the game.

Frankly, considering the scope of the game, i think the combat in KCD was surprisingly good. A truly perfect HEMA combat system is something that could only work in a game that was devoted entirely to it, but combat was only one aspect of the overall experience KCD offers so it's not surprising they fumbled some aspects of it.

 

[Drakortha]

If you keep this up (((you know who))) will split the thread.

It's Obsidians fault. Everyone ITT is dying for even a scrap of Avowed content. The wait for Feb 18 is killing them.

 

[Hace El Oso]

But Kingdom Come wasn't trying to avoid the "usual" as if the object was to be different for the sake of being different. Simulationism has a long history in computer games, especially PC gaming. While Kingdom Come isn't exactly a medieval Arma it obviously inherits some of the same design philosophy.

It's perfectly legitimate to critisize the implementation, but to argue the game should have opted for a more "arcade" style gameplay is to miss the point entirely, not to mention the fact there are plenty of arcadish combat systems that are complete shit or at the very least aren't particularly better in implementation (Witcher, Skyrim etc) so it's not like you can narrow the problem to the style of the game.

Frankly, considering the scope of the game, i think the combat in KCD was surprisingly good. A truly perfect HEMA combat system is something that could only work in a game that was devoted entirely to it, but combat was only one aspect of the overall experience KCD offers so it's not surprising they fumbled some aspects of it.

I meant that they were trying to do something daring in attempting to capture sword fighting, rather than the 'same old'. You're speaking to someone who has enjoyed and appreciated ArmA since Operation Flashpoint. I agree with you, I don't wish that they had gone for a simpler 'arcade' combat system, only that it had been possible given the circumstances at the time for some of the unpleasant, distracting clunkiness to have been refined away.
Removing Master Strikes helps hugely.

 

[Yosharian]

Which mod removes master strikes?

Or are you talking about KCD2 cos I'm pretty sure they are still in that