KickStarter Kingdom Come: Deliverance Pre-Release Thread [RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[Iznaliu]

With a 500$ you can build a pretty beefy PC if you are smart and you know what to look for and where..

However the average person isn't smart, but is average. They also don't care enough to really optimise and dedicate time to finding a good build.

 

[Doctor Sbaitso]

$500 would build a shit computer.

 

[Smejki]

If only you had an idea how many times my dad saved my ass by teaching me some car engineering 101. And how many times I've seen people stranded at a roadside calling a towing service because they couldn't change a fucking tyre. Yes, in order to drive a car you SHOULD be a mechanic-lite, for your own good.

Hey, I am not saying either is not useful.
But neither is a skill that will ever become a widespread knowledge despite acquiring them is nothing hard and despite mastering it gives you the upper hand. Why? Because they are not willing/don't have to put in extra effort to achieve the primary goal. And we all do that in one domain or another.
Yes, I can fix my car, and my bike. Yes, I can create a model for 3D printing in case I break some important irreplacable tiny plastic bitch. Yes, I can manage and build my own PC. Yes, I can program myself some useful tool. Yes, I can do almost any house construction and maintenance work. And yes, I can navigate myself in a complicated terrain.
But I'm a poor cook, I want my printer to be a plug-n-play maintenance-free machine, I'm shit at fixing my clothes, less my shoes, despite my education I don't mess with electricity, and my understanding of net technologies is very limited.
Despite all that I cook and eat, print papers, wear clothes and shoes, use electric devices and the Internet.
When getting stranded in Canadian wilderness is somewhat likely scenario for you, you better fucking learn to fix your car.
When your goal is to do some quick shopping and drive 20 times a year to visit your family members 30km away in a country where you can't not run into an urban area every 5 kilometers then you don't have to care that much.
When your primary and only goals are to play games and consume media. The goto option for most is the notepad + console combo.

 

[cvv]

When your primary and only goals are to play games and consume media. The goto option for most is the notepad + console combo.

I was with you up until this.

First of all, playing only console games is like eating just fast food. Sure, if you play only Madden and CoD you're fine just with a console. But anyone else?

But mainly - IF you buy a laptop AND a console you might as well buy a full-on PC instead. Not only you get a much healthier diet of games but laptop gives you the same headaches as PC (if you consider an occassional driver update a headache) plus money-wise it's the same. And with a minimal effort you can make playing on PC equally comfortable as on a console, all you need to do is buy a nice plush chair instead of the hipstery office torture devices I see so many people use nowadays and a decently large monitor (27" is more than fine). And PC can handle a controller too.

Yes there are exclusives and some of them are actually good, especially if you're a weaboo or popamole fan - Bloodborne, Red Dead Redemption, a few animu, some fighting or racing games. And if you can justify paying 400 bucks for just one or two games then more power to you. But otherwise - what reason is there to buy a console?

 

[ortucis]

I guess my Gothic tactics will work then

In Gothic (3 at least), humanoid enemies chase you only a bit and when you are far enough from their initial point, go back while telling you to stay away. You CAN keep them engaged to keep luring them out (but most of the time, many of them still turn back).

So Kingdom Come's humanoids are like animals of Gothic? Gothic 3 was released in 2006. KC will be a 2018 release and the AI is worse than that of Gothic 3..

Game looks really nice though, kudos to the artists.

 

[cvv]

In Gothic (3 at least), humanoid enemies chase you only a bit and when you are far enough from their initial point, go back while telling you to stay away. You CAN keep them engaged to keep luring them out (but most of the time, many of them still turn back).

Weird, I seem to remember luring orcs into OP town guards. I also thought it's the animal mobs that have their area of operation and can't be lured anywhere far. Memory is muddy tho.

 

[ortucis]

In Gothic (3 at least), humanoid enemies chase you only a bit and when you are far enough from their initial point, go back while telling you to stay away. You CAN keep them engaged to keep luring them out (but most of the time, many of them still turn back).

Weird, I seem to remember luring orcs into OP town guards. I also thought it's the animal mobs that have their area of operation and can't be lured anywhere far. Memory is muddy tho.

You can lure them if you keep attacking them, then it makes sense. In KCD video, that bandit just follows that guy even when the player stops attacking.

EVEN THEN, the problem is that this game is being released 11 years after Gothic 3 and the AI is still dumb as rocks. It's a SP game and they talk so much about "realism" yet the AI can't do better than the AI from a game released in 2006.

I'll still play it though since the videos look fun to me personally, but the AI in all of the videos is just stupid. Animation or lip-syncing doesn't bother me since I am a PB fan, so I am used to that quality. But even with PB games like ELEX, the AI problem has become a big issue for me. No one wants to focus on it at all while improving the visuals (which, on my 660Ti will look like shit, btw).

Anyway, gonna go re-play G3 now to prepare for ELEX.

 

[Paul_cz]

It is kinda fucked but I assume this will get fixed. Warhorse have super advanced AI for living world simulation, would be lame if combat AI sucked like this.

 

[Alienman]

I wonder if you can lure the King to the bandits

I do agree with you ortucis . AI in general is the one thing I want improved In games, screw graphics and everything else. It would be kinda sad if the AI is kept as it is. But if it is, I guess we have to show some self-restraint, I mean to not to totally break the game. And it was so much fun luring huge beasts into the settlements in Gothic 3. Having 20 orcs trying to fight some kind of mountain ogre and failing.

 

[AwesomeButton]

It is kinda fucked but I assume this will get fixed. Warhorse have super advanced AI for living world simulation, would be lame if combat AI sucked like this.

Super advanced AI.

The player is the only one capable of seeing and following a blood trail into the forest.

 

[Paul_cz]

It is kinda fucked but I assume this will get fixed. Warhorse have super advanced AI for living world simulation, would be lame if combat AI sucked like this.

Super advanced AI.

The player is the only one capable of seeing and following a blood trail into the forest.

For fuck sake. Yes, now complain that NPCs are not doing quests instead of the player.
I mean AI for the NPC schedules. There is a lot of stuff about it in various GDS talks etc, you can check it yourself.

 

[AwesomeButton]

I'm not arguing it won't be a good game. But the second coming of Jesus is postponed. Sorry I don't share your hype, but this isn't the hype forum anyway.

 

[Iznaliu]

But the second coming of Jesus is postponed.

It's PoE2.

 

[Paul_cz]

I'm not arguing it won't be a good game. But the second coming of Jesus is postponed. Sorry I don't share your hype, but this isn't the hype forum anyway.

I don't think it's going to be second coming of Jesus or anything like that, but factually, it is doing some stuff in its AI systems and quest design that not many (if any) other games are doing, at least from what I can see in the various dev talks and articles. Which of course means fuck all unless they manage to execute it well and polish it up.

 

[Prime Junta]

execute it well and polish it up

if they do that i will certainly czech it out

 

[AwesomeButton]

But the second coming of Jesus is postponed.

It's PoE2.

Can't wait for that load of butthurt to arrive, though it's nothing compared to the first.

I'm not arguing it won't be a good game. But the second coming of Jesus is postponed. Sorry I don't share your hype, but this isn't the hype forum anyway.

I don't think it's going to be second coming of Jesus or anything like that, but factually, it is doing some stuff in its AI systems and quest design that not many (if any) other games are doing, at least from what I can see in the various dev talks and articles. Which of course means fuck all unless they manage to execute it well and polish it up.

Seriously speaking - wouldn't it have made a lot more sense if the player would go investigate the blood trail along with an NPC? Or if the enemy didn't pursue the player so far. Then the kiting wouldn't have been possible and it wouldn't have looked so gamey. I get disappointed when I'm reminded it's a game in such a way.

Up to now I haven't seen anything remarkable in the quest design, even the oppposite.

 

[cvv]

Seriously speaking - wouldn't it have made a lot more sense if the enemy didn't pursue the player so far.

Yes.

Wouldn't it have made a lot more sense if the player would go investigate the blood trail along with an NPC?

Good shot at the wrong target. Dunno about specifically this instance but in general KCD aims to do precisely what you're touching on - the world will actually function without you, on its own. NPCs actually WILL be autonomous, doing their thing, without you approaching them and activating them. It's supposed to be what Bethesda does with the AI, only on steroids. And turned to eleven. For me, of all things Vavra is promising, this is the biggest draw.

 

[Smejki]

I guess my Gothic tactics will work then

In Gothic (3 at least), humanoid enemies chase you only a bit and when you are far enough from their initial point, go back while telling you to stay away. You CAN keep them engaged to keep luring them out (but most of the time, many of them still turn back).

We're tweaking this right now. Humans will not keep chasing you for as long as it is now.

BTW the worst case of endless chasing by enemies I remember was in Oblivion. Horses and wolves had the same speed. If couldn't/didn't want to fight and jumped your horse to escape your only hope was to make the wolf stuck in geometry. It took me over half a map once.
Bethesda design is after all as strong as their writing.

 

[cvv]

We're tweaking this right now. Humans will not keep chasing you for as long as it is now.

While you're here:

1) any details on how fast travel works? Only hotspot-to-hotspot? Or from anywhere to a hotspot? Are hotspots only towns or some markers in the countryside?

2) Vavra talked about saving through "charges" you'd find in the world - shots of brandy iirc - so you can't save every two seconds plus saving makes you less effective in combat so you have to think twice before you save before every fight. Is that still a thing? I personally like the sound of it but I remember people were bitching about it. Muh quick saves and so on.

3) The intro that's currently attached to the beta is final? Do you plan to use this technique, these quazi-moving still images, in other places in the game?

Reveal what you can, if you can't don't worry about it.

 

[Smejki]

When your primary and only goals are to play games and consume media. The goto option for most is the notepad + console combo.

I was with you up until this.

First of all, playing only console games is like eating just fast food. Sure, if you play only Madden and CoD you're fine just with a console. But anyone else?

But mainly - IF you buy a laptop AND a console you might as well buy a full-on PC instead. Not only you get a much healthier diet of games but laptop gives you the same headaches as PC (if you consider an occassional driver update a headache) plus money-wise it's the same. And with a minimal effort you can make playing on PC equally comfortable as on a console, all you need to do is buy a nice plush chair instead of the hipstery office torture devices I see so many people use nowadays and a decently large monitor (27" is more than fine). And PC can handle a controller too.

Yes there are exclusives and some of them are actually good, especially if you're a weaboo or popamole fan - Bloodborne, Red Dead Redemption, a few animu, some fighting or racing games. And if you can justify paying 400 bucks for just one or two games then more power to you. But otherwise - what reason is there to buy a console?

playing only console games is like eating just fast food

That is simply not true. You are conveniently excluding large part of of the catalogue, focusing mainly on CoD (and equivalents), sports and boom-y bang-y exclusives. Yes, such people exist (my cousin for example, plays only NHL, FIFA and Uncharted) but they are very unlikely to become engaged by all the gold PC scene offers. The are not even getting engaged by all the GOOD consoles offer. And those who do, from my experience, very likely also own a gaming PC already.

Otherwise we don't really have to argue about this matter since we're on the same boat already.
And those who aren't.... that their loss. We shouldn't be pissed or scornful because there are exclusive FIFA players who are not appreciating our beloved olden Fallouts.

 

[Smejki]

Warhorse have super advanced AI

 

[Smejki]

1) any details on how fast travel works? Only hotspot-to-hotspot? Or from anywhere to a hotspot? Are hotspots only towns or some markers in the countryside?

From anywhere to any discovered "hotspot". And it's based on the long lost art of simulating the journey. No magical teleport + time shift.
Moreover you will see the calculated path beforehand and then can choose not to fast-travel through that dangerous forest.

2) Vavra talked about saving through "charges" you'd find in the world - shots of brandy iirc - so you can't save every two seconds plus saving makes you less effective in combat so you have to think twice before you save before every fight. Is that still a thing? I personally like the sound of it but I remember people were bitching about it. Muh quick saves and so on.

Still in place. It's a potion and repeated usage indeed makes you dizzy.
However there will be permanent and carousel autosaves (3 or 5) at numerous important points.

3) The intro that's currently attached to the beta is final? Do you plan to use this technique, these quazi-moving still images, in other places in the game?

We are reusing parts of it. That's as much as i can say.

 

[AwesomeButton]

Dunno about specifically this instance but in general KCD aims to do precisely what you're touching on - the world will actually function without you, on its own. NPCs actually WILL be autonomous, doing their thing, without you approaching them and activating them. It's supposed to be what Bethesda does with the AI, only on steroids. And turned to eleven. For me, of all things Vavra is promising, this is the biggest draw.

They say they aim to do it, but do you believe it's possible to pull off NPCs behaving realistically in an open world beyond basic schedules, and not look like dumb androids? Come on, we've already lived through the "Radiant AI" hype once, it was 6-7 years ago.

 

[Iznaliu]

Still in place. It's a potion and repeated usage indeed makes you dizzy.

I guess there will be a lot of complaints about this after release.

 

[ortucis]

I guess my Gothic tactics will work then

In Gothic (3 at least), humanoid enemies chase you only a bit and when you are far enough from their initial point, go back while telling you to stay away. You CAN keep them engaged to keep luring them out (but most of the time, many of them still turn back).

We're tweaking this right now. Humans will not keep chasing you for as long as it is now.

BTW the worst case of endless chasing by enemies I remember was in Oblivion. Horses and wolves had the same speed. If couldn't/didn't want to fight and jumped your horse to escape your only hope was to make the wolf stuck in geometry. It took me over half a map once.
Bethesda design is after all as strong as their writing.

FFS, I was making a video comparing the AI with G3, recorded G3 footage too, it's still rendering in premiere.

I hope you guys don't release any video showing improved AI until I am done uploading my video. I have 8 subs, and I will unleash them upon thee.


On the side note, how "open world" is this game? Will the game let us go wherever and complete side-quests without forcing us to play the main quest? I have not played open world RPG for a while now (that is why excited for ELEX) and dying to get that sweet Gothic experience all over again.