Game News Knights of the Chalice 2 releasing for real on March 25th

[Grunker]

Feet of the Giantress: Revenge of the Soles

 

[Mortmal]

50:50 actually isn't a bad deal, most publishers, distributors and the like take 60 usually at the very least.

It's a very bad deal cause while the editor is good and possible to translate a pen and paper session in a crpg , it requires buying new art assets, get a whole new batch of token, make your own maps and then when you get all of this considerable writing and scripting work still . We arent that far from starting from scratch at that point . If you want to sell it , you cant just download pics you find on the web , you need to pay the copyrights on all those things , at 50/50 no one will do this it's unreasonable and not surprising from pierre.

 

[Abu Antar]

The real release happened a long time ago. This is the fake release.

Unless you played the ball-crushingly hard 1.0, you have not tried the real KotC2.

 

[Nazrim Eldrak]

50:50 actually isn't a bad deal, most publishers, distributors and the like take 60 usually at the very least.

It's a very bad deal cause while the editor is good and possible to translate a pen and paper session in a crpg , it requires buying new art assets, get a whole new batch of token, make your own maps and then when you get all of this considerable writing and scripting work still . We arent that far from starting from scratch at that point . If you want to sell it , you cant just download pics you find on the web , you need to pay the copyrights on all those things , at 50/50 no one will do this it's unreasonable and not surprising from pierre.

I think the most questionable point is the 5 years.
What happens after that?

 

[Tse Tse Fly]

Can you still use the cute tokens instead of sprites or did the developer do away with them completely?

This is what I read on the steam page:

• Use the powerful integrated toolset to create new modules and campaigns easily. Easily swap monster tokens and sprites or create new ones. Create new monsters, new dialogues and new maps easily. The best modules may also generate an income stream for you thanks to the 5-5-5 User Module Offer.

One of the videos on the steam page also shows characters and monsters being presented as tokens and not sprites.

 

[Humbaba]

It's a very bad deal cause while the editor is good and possible to translate a pen and paper session in a crpg , it requires buying new art assets, get a whole new batch of token, make your own maps and then when you get all of this considerable writing and scripting work still . We arent that far from starting from scratch at that point . If you want to sell it , you cant just download pics you find on the web , you need to pay the copyrights on all those things , at 50/50 no one will do this it's unreasonable and not surprising from pierre.

We arent that far from starting from scratch at that point

We are extremely far from starting from scratch, don't be ridiculous.

at 50/50 no one will do this it's unreasonable

A 50:50 split is a good deal for a 3rd party module that can only ever be legally monetised with the expressed consent of the original devs anyway or be released for free. We're talking about mods here, not fully separate games, that'd be another question.

 

[Dorateen]

Can you still use the cute tokens instead of sprites or did the developer do away with them completely?

It is a display option that can be toggled in the menu:

Spoiler

There are three ways to play KotC2:

The new animated higher resoulution sprites
Tokens
Or even the old school sprites from the first Knights of the Chalice

 

[dacencora]

A 50:50 split is a good deal for a 3rd party module that can only ever be legally monetised with the expressed consent of the original devs anyway or be released for free. We're talking about mods here, not fully separate games, that'd be another question.

Precisely. Why should a modder be entitled to profit off of all the work that Pierre put into building the engine? They’re using his toolset to build a custom module for his game. As I said before, the fact that he’s offering to sell a custom module with profit sharing is rare and also super cool.

 

[Mortmal]

It's a very bad deal cause while the editor is good and possible to translate a pen and paper session in a crpg , it requires buying new art assets, get a whole new batch of token, make your own maps and then when you get all of this considerable writing and scripting work still . We arent that far from starting from scratch at that point . If you want to sell it , you cant just download pics you find on the web , you need to pay the copyrights on all those things , at 50/50 no one will do this it's unreasonable and not surprising from pierre.

We arent that far from starting from scratch at that point

We are extremely far from starting from scratch, don't be ridiculous.

at 50/50 no one will do this it's unreasonable

A 50:50 split is a good deal for a 3rd party module that can only ever be legally monetised with the expressed consent of the original devs anyway or be released for free. We're talking about mods here, not fully separate games, that'd be another question.

I was talking about making a good module, It's not just a mod it's similar to writing an indie campaign for pathfinder and adapt it into a crpg , you underestimate what it means. I am never wrong on this, nothing of professionnal quality will be done in those conditions.

 

[dacencora]

I was talking about making a good module, It's not just a mod it's similar to writing an indie campaign for pathfinder and adapt it into a crpg , you underestimate what it means. I am never wrong on this, nothing of professionnal quality will be done in those conditions.

Nah. No offense but you don’t know what you’re talking about. I’ve used the toolset (back in the earlier days of the release) and while the effort needed to make a module shouldn’t be understated, you’re definitely blowing things out of proportion. The ruleset and leveling system are already in place. You don’t have to code anything like that, because Pierre already did the work. It’s similar to the NWN toolset or TES Construction Kit. The scripting you’d have to do is more related to dialogue and scripted events. You could make a simpler combat oriented module fairly easily. The main thing is sourcing (or creating) the gfx assets, which you could always just use what’s included in the toolset. You could even sketch a map on paper and scan it into your computer to make a campaign/scenario.

 

[Humbaba]

Precisely. Why should a modder be entitled to profit off of all the work that Pierre put into building the engine? They’re using his toolset to build a custom module for his game. As I said before, the fact that he’s offering to sell a custom module with profit sharing is rare and also super cool.

The only other thing I know of is NWN premium modules though I don't know what cut those people got.

I am never wrong on this

Well that just can't be because I'm never wrong either.

 

[Mortmal]

Precisely. Why should a modder be entitled to profit off of all the work that Pierre put into building the engine? They’re using his toolset to build a custom module for his game. As I said before, the fact that he’s offering to sell a custom module with profit sharing is rare and also super cool.

The only other thing I know of is NWN premium modules though I don't know what cut those people got.

I am never wrong on this

Well that just can't be because I'm never wrong either.

I'll requote you in a few years , just to quote you and answer i told you so....

 

[PorkaMorka]

Poorly thought out opinion:

It seems like you should be able to sell your module, but not distribute the KOTC2 executable with it

Then whoever buys your module has to buy the KOTC2 game also, which means the Dev gets paid for making the software. Win win.

We are kind of doing the Dev a favor by making modules for his construction kit software, without fan creators his software is a lot less valuable. The long term popularity of the game depends on how good the module making community is.

I don't see why anyone would agree to give him 50% ownership over the stuff they create.

I guess the part about libertarianism on his website should have been a clue that he was an aspiring rent seeker.

Kind of makes me less interested in buying his game.

 

[dacencora]

Poorly thought out opinion

 

[PorkaMorka]

I would be surprised if KOTC2 got a big following, everything works against it marketing wise. It has a lot of prosperian tendencies.

The D&D mechanics are also free to use.

It seems like he mostly just offers content creators an janky-seeming engine and what is supposedly a good AI.

If someone wants to put in hundreds of hours making their own module with their own assets and levels, they're basically doing him a huge favor. In the unlikely event that this module attracts a paid following, he should be glad because that means a lot of people bought his game.

There are plenty of other engines you can use if you want to put in all that work. Most will be more popular than KOTC2.

Also, people can easily get paid for their module through donations and patreon and stuff, so he'd better find a lawyer who is willing to work for roots if he really thinks he's going to stop content creators from getting paid.

Supposedly YouTube only takes 30% of superchats and that software is extremely popular bordering on a monopoly, free for creators and requires a lot less work from creators.

 

[dacencora]

I don’t think anyone thought that an extremely difficult, low-budget, turn-based RPG with low-res gfx was gonna be a smash hit lmao.

 

[JarlFrank]

Who even gives a shit, best case scenario we get a bunch of high quality modules out of this.

 

[Abu Antar]

I don’t think anyone thought that an extremely difficult, low-budget, turn-based RPG with low-res gfx was gonna be a smash hit lmao.

It just has to make enough money for Pierre to afford more roots.

 

[holla_cabezas_de_mierda]

This can be found on his website:
"The 5-5-5 User Module offer: construct a high-quality module and we will split the net sales 50/50 for five years (subject to agreement)."

nice, that is a good idea

 

[Fireblade]

This can be found on his website:
"The 5-5-5 User Module offer: construct a high-quality module and we will split the net sales 50/50 for five years (subject to agreement)."

Sounded reasonable when I first read it, but it's revealing that he said "net" sales. So presumably he's going to sell these modules as DLC on Steam/GOG and this 50/50 split is after the 30% that Steam/GOG take? So, in reality, it's 30% Steam/GoG, 35% Pierre, 35% you? Your share is getting rather small at that point...

 

[Nazrim Eldrak]

This can be found on his website:
"The 5-5-5 User Module offer: construct a high-quality module and we will split the net sales 50/50 for five years (subject to agreement)."

Sounded reasonable when I first read it, but it's revealing that he said "net" sales. So presumably he's going to sell these modules as DLC on Steam/GOG and this 50/50 split is after the 30% that Steam/GOG take? So, in reality, it's 30% Steam/GoG, 35% Pierre, 35% you? Your share is getting rather small at that point...

Don't forget the taxes you may have to pay depending on which country you live in.

 

[rojay]

The only legal way a content creator can monetize a module is if Pierre grants a license. I have no idea whether 50/50 is standard, generous or miserly but a "rip off" is when someone steals something from you. This is the opposite of that.

 

[Waterd]

People telling others how much they should charge for their thousand of hours of work, and call it a rip-off, rise my misanthropy levels to over 9000.

 

[Darth Canoli]

The only legal way a content creator can monetize a module is if Pierre grants a license. I have no idea whether 50/50 is standard, generous or miserly but a "rip off" is when someone steals something from you. This is the opposite of that.

Exactly, modders do it for free for years, look at the UFO and Battle Brothers modding scenes.

Besides, if you're talented and can show some high quality work, I'm 150% sure you could even strike a better deal with Pierre...

 

[Angelo85]

There's also plenty of single modders and teams that accept donations and make real money that way. Most prominent the ones with a Patreon. Donations reach up to thousands of dollars monthly. Whether or not it's legal I can't say. Perhaps Pierre will add something to the EULA and go after the "illegal" modders that try to bypass mandatory cash kickbacks to him. I wouldn't rule something like that out with him.