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KickStarter Knights of the Chalice 2 Thread - Augury of Chaos

JarlFrank

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Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
Anyone care to throw together a class tier list?
Compiling what people said in this thread on average:
God tier: Any full (9 spell levels) spellcaster (wizard being the best, cleric possibly the worst)
Useful tier: Any full BAB martial (so no bard) class (death knight or whatever the name is being the least popular)
Crap tier: All the rest (ranger and then paladin + rogue being probably the worst ones)

Anything more detailed i leave to people who actually finished the game.

Since you get 6 characters, there's no need for hybrids in general. You can use the specialized classes and really specialize them in their core strengths. By the end your casters will have so many spell slots they'll be hammering out spells every turn and don't need any combat capability, while your pure fighters have the job of wading into the enemy lines and taking out high priority targets (or grappling them).

Fighter is my favorite martial class because of extra feats (if you play with the two feats per level option you can get pretty much EVERY feat by the end, if you play by normal D&D rules you can still get pretty much every feat that's useful) and because of Wade In, which is a feat you get later on that allows you to use your full attack after moving. This is insanely valuable, especially when dual wielding, since it means ANY enemy within walking distance will receive the full 10 or more attacks.

Wizard is top tier, especially lategame when you equip her with robe of the archmage and crown of the archmage, which give +1 spell slot for ALL spells level 1-9. You can use your massive fuckoff nukes every turn in the hard lategame battles which is very important. The wizard gets a bunch of spells that are useful from start to finish. Grease will be your early to midgame workhorse and is a level 1 spell. The level 2 spell web is amazing mid-game. The level 3 spell stinking cloud is the best spell in the game imo because it only relies on a fortitude save for anyone caught within it; spell resistance does NOT negate its effect. Anyone who gets nauseous loses all actions. At level 8 you get a spell that lets you cast spells as a movement action rather than a full action, and then you can fire two nukes per turn. Level 9 spells contain some absolute nukes that can kill or disable entire mobs of enemies in one go.

Psionic is another top dog. Power points mean maximum flexibility compared to spell slots. Low level spells scale upward in power by investing additional power points into casting them. A low level spell that usually costs 1 PP to cast can have 20 PP invested in it to increase its effect massively. The level 1 spell stomp is another workhorse that stays useful till the end, knocking down enemies caught in the cone and damaging them in the process. Has a healing spell at level 2 that is personal but can be used on other characters with a feat, and scales with PP investment. Only the cleric's Heal spell heals more HP than this one. Like the wizard, gets a spell that lets you cast as a movement action at level 8 which means two nukes per turn as long as you don't move. Has some delicious nukes at high levels, not as many as the wizard but still good. And even the top tier nukes can be improved by investing more PP into the cast. Decerebrate is an awesome single-target spell that can permanently remove a strong enemy from the battlefield by turning them into a useless retard who can't act at all ever again unless a cleric uses a top tier healing spell on him.

Druid is decent and has more utility than the Cleric overall. Quicksand is a level 2 workhorse spell that, again, stays useful until the end. Mid-level druid spells are mostly underwhelming tbh, except for the summons which serve as good meatshields and baleful polymorph which is especially useful to deactivate enemy wizards by turning them into toads. Lategame spells are pretty good, including fun stuff like a whirlwind that deals damage and has a chance to stun and earthquake which has a MASSIVE AoE. Gets access to Cleric healing spells and is generally more useful than the Cleric, but I ran with both of them anyway.
 

Darth Canoli

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I'm still on my Ironman run (Max difficulty except no gold for level up and 1 feat/level), almost out of the moon crypt, dealt with the Salamander with quicksand (55% with 20+ 2 WIS) and the Barbarian from the Village, Jorad killed it in4 turns i think while the druid send some crocodiles to slow the fire elemental down.

The Barbarian had to take 34(24) fire damage (-10 because of equipment) when charging, level 6 druid and 5 Barbarian and yes, i'm farming xp.
Depending how much xp I can farm, I might try the Spider Queen, I think I can take her without dying.

The death Snare, on the other hand... I have no reliable strategy for that.


How is quality compared to original game?

Quality is great, Augury is mostly a dungeon crawler (chapters 1, 2, 3) while Hearkenwold is a sandbox/open world with a lot of side quests but also a main quest to follow if/when you feel like it.
 

Darth Canoli

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Found it less hard than the spider queen as long as you are quick and go in at full health and spells.

Maybe so, but there is plenty of strategies to deal with the Spider Queen and now even spider allies while I can beat the death snare but I have no reliable strategy to beat the last fight.


Also, to change the topic, I find the new village very good.
The new village is a very good example of what can be done with the module editor, companions joining if you meet the requirements or accept a mini-quest, events only appearing after a while, quest chains, locations and NPC only appearing after some quests triggers, others leaving after some time (dwarves and the gladiator from the tavern)

Also, the disappearing sword, the snare, the night events, party-splitting, skills interactions...
 

jungl

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Mage Knight class is a bit disappointed. Unlimited Spells feat is interesting. But I expect it can be like Duskblade(3.5e) or Magus(Pathfinder). Add a Spellstrike feat would be perfect.

The partial casters are useful and times more useful then the full casters. Spells like fire arrow are amazing on mage knights for sniping mages. Pierres classes all play out different then 3.0 and pathfinder variiants. I would not have clerics spamming sound burst and holy smite or magus using fire arrow in pathfinder.
 

JarlFrank

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Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
Finished it on normal.

Now either for an Archmage attempt or Ironman... hmmm...
I'd go with ironman but this is me, i love ironman when possible. You will be the tester if ironman is really possible in kotc2. Thank you in advance. :hug:
:smug:

During my last fight in non-ironman I had to force-quit the application through task manager and reload my save because something bugged out, so... :M
 

Serus

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Maybe so, but there is plenty of strategies to deal with the Spider Queen and now even spider allies while I can beat the death snare but I have no reliable strategy to beat the last fight.


Also, to change the topic, I find the new village very good.
The new village is a very good example of what can be done with the module editor, companions joining if you meet the requirements or accept a mini-quest, events only appearing after a while, quest chains, locations and NPC only appearing after some quests triggers, others leaving after some time (dwarves and the gladiator from the tavern)

Also, the disappearing sword, the snare, the night events, party-splitting, skills interactions...
What i think is missing is... how to tell it? Example: when you have a druid in party the game allows you to find healing herbs, right? Would it be possible to somehow divide this druid-only ability on say 2 levels. As a result with level 1 you would be able to only find weaker (and less costly) herbs. With the higher level - all the herbs. Same with other skills, that was just an example.
Can it be done somehow?
 

Serus

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Finished it on normal.

Now either for an Archmage attempt or Ironman... hmmm...
I'd go with ironman but this is me, i love ironman when possible. You will be the tester if ironman is really possible in kotc2. Thank you in advance. :hug:
:smug:

During my last fight in non-ironman I had to force-quit the application through task manager and reload my save because something bugged out, so... :M
Just play a self-enforced ironman then. It's not like you do it for steam achievements? Or just backup often in case of save corruption. If the game crashes you'll have to replay a fight or two, not a big deal. Try not to use foreknowledge and you'll be playing ironman. Replaying a few fights - chosen randomly as the game crashes randomly - out of hundreds - doesn't make it any less iron imo.
That would my advices but you will do as you wish of curse.
 

JarlFrank

I like Thief THIS much
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Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
Finished it on normal.

Now either for an Archmage attempt or Ironman... hmmm...
I'd go with ironman but this is me, i love ironman when possible. You will be the tester if ironman is really possible in kotc2. Thank you in advance. :hug:
:smug:

During my last fight in non-ironman I had to force-quit the application through task manager and reload my save because something bugged out, so... :M
Just play a self-enforced ironman then. It's not like you do it for steam achievements? Or just backup often in case of save corruption. If the game crashes you'll have to replay a fight or two, not a big deal. Try not to use foreknowledge and you'll be playing ironman. Replaying a few fights - chosen randomly as the game crashes randomly - out of hundreds - doesn't make it any less iron imo.
That would my advices but you will do as you wish of curse.

Yeah I think I'll do it by playing legit ironman (with achievements) but backing my save up before loading it (I think loading deletes it) just in case it's a crash that kills me rather than the actual fight.
 

Dorateen

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Would it be possible to somehow divide this druid-only ability on say 2 levels. As a result with level 1 you would be able to only find weaker (and less costly) herbs. With the higher level - all the herbs. Same with other skills, that was just an example.
Can it be done somehow?

Yes, it can be done, it would just take a bit of extra scripting. The module builder can check for character levels, and then script each result accordingly.
 

Serus

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Would it be possible to somehow divide this druid-only ability on say 2 levels. As a result with level 1 you would be able to only find weaker (and less costly) herbs. With the higher level - all the herbs. Same with other skills, that was just an example.
Can it be done somehow?

Yes, it can be done, it would just take a bit of extra scripting. The module builder can check for character levels, and then script each result accordingly.
I rather had in mind not the character level itself but dividing the class ability in two levels.
But taking into account the level of the character would be better than nothing.

Basically, the problem is that many non-combat interactions are all-or-nothing. If you have a class skill - you get all the prize. You don't have it - you get nothing.
 
Last edited:

Brickfrog

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If I didn't bring a divine caster am I gonna have any ways to deal with death outside of the finchbury water fountain? I'm about 5-6 hours in and wondering if I need to replay a long fight because my dog shit 15movespeed, 42hp-at-level-6 DK died.
 

JarlFrank

I like Thief THIS much
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Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
If I didn't bring a divine caster am I gonna have any ways to deal with death outside of the finchbury water fountain? I'm about 5-6 hours in and wondering if I need to replay a long fight because my dog shit 15movespeed, 42hp-at-level-6 DK died.

If you died in Finchbury already, there's no spells to get back to life yet.
 

Serus

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If I didn't bring a divine caster am I gonna have any ways to deal with death outside of the finchbury water fountain? I'm about 5-6 hours in and wondering if I need to replay a long fight because my dog shit 15movespeed, 42hp-at-level-6 DK died.

If you died in Finchbury already, there's no spells to get back to life yet.
What? There is a fountain with 2 uses there.
 

Brickfrog

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If I didn't bring a divine caster am I gonna have any ways to deal with death outside of the finchbury water fountain? I'm about 5-6 hours in and wondering if I need to replay a long fight because my dog shit 15movespeed, 42hp-at-level-6 DK died.

If you died in Finchbury already, there's no spells to get back to life yet.

I'm well past finchbury.
 

Trash Player

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Fighter, Death Knight, Samouraï, Barbarian and Gladiator are good, but usually, it's better to include one Fighter because he does something the other don't (full attack at the end of a charge).

Bishop is a good hybrid if you pick your extra domains with care because there is quite a lot of high level cleric scrolls to be found.
Wade in makes full attack costs a standard action, no full attack at the end of a charge. That is pounce, which is found on a belt or native to the psychic warrior.
Bishop is a cleric with worse spell progression for more domains. They have medium bab.
 
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So uh... what's the optimal level for the spider queen? We're talking 100% core rules here. Thank god I made a backup save before entering that room, because this deranged frenchman's idea of a fun is locking you inside from behind to battle some weak ass demons, then out of nowhere, tossing a goddamn 22 wiz to assrape you back to 2.5e.
Holy fuck man.
 

Tomas

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Strap Yourselves In Codex Year of the Donut
I'm still on my Ironman run (Max difficulty except no gold for level up and 1 feat/level), almost out of the moon crypt, dealt with the Salamander with quicksand (55% with 20+ 2 WIS) and the Barbarian from the Village, Jorad killed it in4 turns i think while the druid send some crocodiles to slow the fire elemental down.

The Barbarian had to take 34(24) fire damage (-10 because of equipment) when charging, level 6 druid and 5 Barbarian and yes, i'm farming xp.
Depending how much xp I can farm, I might try the Spider Queen, I think I can take her without dying.

The death Snare, on the other hand... I have no reliable strategy for that.


How is quality compared to original game?

Quality is great, Augury is mostly a dungeon crawler (chapters 1, 2, 3) while Hearkenwold is a sandbox/open world with a lot of side quests but also a main quest to follow if/when you feel like it.

If you're going to do Spider Queen, record it and share on YouTube. Good luck.
 

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