Vapourware KOTOR 2 Restoration Project (not the Restored Content Mod)

[Lumpy]

You're both pretty dumb sometimes, but it has gotten a lot better.

How about you give you *your* opinion on the matter? Sounds to me you're just afraid of being called something.

Jasede's mature solution to this problem:
"Waaah! Delete fucking everything!

 

[Jasede]

 

[Lumpy]

Actually, I'm not quite a gaylord - I swing both ways like a candle in the wind But I'm also happily married (to a woman) and monogomous, so it's pretty much a moot point - I doubt many gay folk would even accept me as bi anymore: living a purely hetero lifestyle and accepting heterosexual privilege and all that (my family and good friends know, but if you met me in real life you'd never ever pick me as anything but completely straight). But nonetheless, feel free to refer to me as 'my lord', and I'll try to remember to say 'Yeth my squire' whenever I respond.

[ok, do you think that's enough to troll up some more dramaz out of this thread?]

Um, can I ask you a question? Suppose you had sex with a man, would it be considered cheating? Would your wife be upset? Similarily, would you be upset if your wife had sex with another woman?

et some fucking perspective guys, it's a mod, you are modders. Not developers, not celebrities, modders restoring content. People expect early releases to be bugged, and anyone who bitched about that would be quickly reminded that you're volunteers and don't owe them shit, I'm sure.

Well, they're kinda modders. They're not really adding anything new, just restoring Obsidian's work.
Rogue Dao Studios on the other hand - of course it's kinda lame that they keep missing deadlines over and over, but at least they're trying. And they used those deadlines as a motivation to keep going, something that Team Gizka obviously doesn't have anymore.
Not to mention that their mod is shaping up to be pretty damn good, from the things they keep throwing at us. And it's fucking original content.

 

[Korgan]

I think TG is a pretty cool guy. eh kills leakers and doesnt afraid of anything.

 

[Relayer71]

For a popular game like kotor there are probably at least 4-5 drogs out there who have the actual talent required to get things done in a reasonable timeframe as well as the interest.

Then why don't they? Seriously, if anyone was really interested they would have done so by now. If no one has even attempted to it's probably because it's too difficult and much too time consuming (which is probably why TG hasn't finished) or just not interested.

And I'm sure Divinci didn't have a public bulletin board getting everyone all excited and expectant about his Mona Lisa, showing them preliminary scetches and periodically commenting on progress.

If he did there would have been art lovers writing stuff like, "Leo, WTF dude? You keep saying you're releasing the Mona Lisa but I think you're full of shit. You suck, Boticelli rules!!!"

 

[MaskedMan]

Also, if someone had taken the Mona Lisa it would be removed from the inventory.

 

[Texas Red]

Also, if someone had taken the Mona Lisa it would be removed from the inventory.

Is looking at Mona Lisa through the internet piracy?

 

[Lumpy]

For a popular game like kotor there are probably at least 4-5 drogs out there who have the actual talent required to get things done in a reasonable timeframe as well as the interest.

Then why don't they? Seriously, if anyone was really interested they would have done so by now. If no one has even attempted to it's probably because it's too difficult and much too time consuming (which is probably why TG hasn't finished) or just not interested.

Suppose you were a guy who wanted to make a Restoration Project. Would you have done it after Team Gizka announced they were working on it?

 

[JrK]

Despite all the drama and dumbass comments, I do see one positive aspect emerging already: there's a lot of debate on the TG site itself about what should have been done with the PR. I hope it is also connected with the 'sudden' updates in the bug tracker, 6 issues or so were updates 2 days ago. Whether or not that is connected to the leak remains to be seen. In any case, I do believe this has drawn the actual modder's attention, and I do get the impression they were/are disillusioned/apathetic/indifferent about their own mod.

That said, I have to comment on all the accusations of 'whining' or 'pussies' directed at the TG modders. I think we should all realise that aside from Dashus' (rather neutral) post on the TG forum none of the modders have actually responded publicly. All of the stupidity and whining comes from (former) beta testers or veterans on the TG forum.

 

[racofer]

Also, if someone had taken the Mona Lisa it would be removed from the inventory.

Is looking at Mona Lisa through the internet piracy?

No but you cannot remember what you saw afterwards, since that is considered reproduction of copyrighted material.

 

[inwoker]

Also, if someone had taken the Mona Lisa it would be removed from the inventory.

Is looking at Mona Lisa through the internet piracy?

Looking at Mona Lisa without buying a license is the same as stealing, oh wait.

 

[Helton]

Despite all the drama and dumbass comments, I do see one positive aspect emerging already: there's a lot of debate on the TG site itself about what should have been done with the PR. I hope it is also connected with the 'sudden' updates in the bug tracker, 6 issues or so were updates 2 days ago. Whether or not that is connected to the leak remains to be seen. In any case, I do believe this has drawn the actual modder's attention, and I do get the impression they were/are disillusioned/apathetic/indifferent about their own mod.

That said, I have to comment on all the accusations of 'whining' or 'pussies' directed at the TG modders. I think we should all realise that aside from Dashus' (rather neutral) post on the TG forum none of the modders have actually responded publicly. All of the stupidity and whining comes from (former) beta testers or veterans on the TG forum.

Hmm, like forum full of Jasedes? Then I can sympathize.

 

[Depressinator]

For a popular game like kotor there are probably at least 4-5 drogs out there who have the actual talent required to get things done in a reasonable timeframe as well as the interest.

Then why don't they? Seriously, if anyone was really interested they would have done so by now. If no one has even attempted to it's probably because it's too difficult and much too time consuming (which is probably why TG hasn't finished) or just not interested.

And I'm sure Divinci didn't have a public bulletin board getting everyone all excited and expectant about his Mona Lisa, showing them preliminary scetches and periodically commenting on progress.

If he did there would have been art lovers writing stuff like, "Leo, WTF dude? You keep saying you're releasing the Mona Lisa but I think you're full of shit. You suck, Boticelli rules!!!"

Learn to read. They don't because there is already a project doing that. If this project died instantly, then someone else would pick it up, guaranteed. As long as someone else is doing it no one will. Anyhow they would have picked it up years ago, I'm not so sure now that kotor has been out so long.

 

[Vaarna_Aarne]

Also, if someone had taken the Mona Lisa it would be removed from the inventory.

Is looking at Mona Lisa through the internet piracy?

Looking at Mona Lisa without buying a license is the same as stealing, oh wait.

"It's not stealing unless a pickpocket roll is made."

 

[Hümmelgümpf]

 

[jaylittle]

I think we should all realise that aside from Dashus' (rather neutral) post on the TG forum none of the modders have actually responded publicly. All of the stupidity and whining comes from (former) beta testers or veterans on the TG forum.

For the most part you are totally correct. The jackasses on the TG side have been veteran forum goers or (ex) beta testers. Dashus actually addressed the issue with me directly on Lucasforums:

http://www.lucasforums.com/showpost.php ... tcount=786

Any reference to "the team" almost always refers to the core group of modders doing work on the mod. KB isn't really a part of that group (though she has helped a bit with a couple miscellaneous things unrelated to actual coding), so to call her the "goddess" of "the team" is a little ridiculous to be honest.

Jaylittle, note that not once, has any member of the team actually accused you of anything. Or spoken about this at all, for that matter (until now obviously.) KB and Ostermana reacted by attempting to check ip logs etc. While I did mention that KB isn't the "goddess" of the mod, she is the server-goddess and as such I would much rather have her (and anyone in her position) be proactive in defending the site/work on the site than not. A DMCA notice was filed with your ISP but I very much doubt anything would come of it. Quite frankly I don't think it's worth the effort. I honestly don't know if they found any damning evidence against you or not; I don't care. We would have preferred the not-fully-working mod not to be released. As stated in my post over at our boards it's quite a disheartening experience to see what you know is inferior code leave your hands without your permission. That's the risk you take by inviting people to help you; some will be less than virtuous. This is yet another reason we don't invite more people to help with the mod.

It is very difficult to describe why we don't want to release it to those who enjoy playing, rather than building mods. We look at the current version knowing that is not done. Players tend to say "good enough." Modders tend to say "but it's still crap!" I don't think that bridge of understanding will ever be built.

Our cleaning of the beta team is simply an attempt to prevent further leaks. It doesn't speak to either your innocence (if any) or your guilt (if any). We released those that we felt were less "known" to the team. That said, maybe we missed the leaker(s?) and we'll see some subsequent release available. Who's to tell yet?

You mention that someone(s?) had (has?) "serious concerns regarding the viability of this mod reaching 1.0c1." I don't think any of the team has ever had that concern. Perhaps the testers have; I don't speak for them. But the core team has never doubted the eventual release of 1.0c1. And, like you say, no tester (ex or otherwise) will likely admit that.

The reason we have wiped all mention of it from our forums is that any conversation about it really does no one any good. It'll just degenerate into a lot of pissing matches anyway. It's certainly what's happened here and at the codex (though I expect as much from the emo-geek collaborative that is the codex nowadays ) Our own forum is the only forum we can keep clean of that crap.

Given that the mod comes with an updater, you could of course run it and watch it update to 1.0b9 and see if it actually updates. I believe you mentioned over at the codex that you expected non-beta testers to find more bugs than the beta testers ever have. I have no doubt

As you can see, he was quite nice and upfront. I appreciated it and I officially consider my part in this drama closed as a result.

And for the record, I would not recommend running the updater. As best as I can tell, it is an exe that calls a nullsoft installer package with a .dat extension and it takes instructions for file downloads and mods from a script it likely calls on Team Gizka's site. It wouldn't suprise me to find that the script now provides instructions to remove the mod rather than to update it. Nevertheless the fact that he mentioned it all practically guarantees running it won't update 1.0b8 to 1.0b9.

 

[aboyd]

For a popular game like kotor there are probably at least 4-5 drogs out there who have the actual talent required to get things done in a reasonable timeframe as well as the interest.

Then why don't they?

The answer to your question was in the very post you replied to. In fact, you had to remove the answer from the quoted text. Here is the text you omitted:

I did not make it clear in my original post, but the very existence of their project stymies any other project from starting. People ASSUME that they are working and will one day actually finish, and no one wants to waste their efforts making duplicate work.

 

[jaylittle]

You give an impression of an intelligent person and I hope you'll stay here at the Kodexxx.

Don't worry, I love this place. RPGs are pretty much the only type of games I play nowadays so this place is right up my alley. I find that I like games with a lot of bang for the buck and RPGs generally deliver on this front.

Off topic: Incidentally, yet another thread around here inspired me to buy the Icewind Dale Collector's pack today. I've never played them, so I grabbed the DVD-ROM versions of the two games and the addon for $26 off Amazon this morning. Also I have a question, even though PST is one of my favorite games, I've never actually purchased it because it's so hard to find for a reasonable price (though whats reasonable for the greatest game ever made). Anybody have a lead on a good price for it?

 

[Fat Dragon]

You give an impression of an intelligent person and I hope you'll stay here at the Kodexxx.

Don't worry, I love this place. RPGs are pretty much the only type of games I play nowadays so this place is right up my alley. I find that I like games with a lot of bang for the buck and RPGs generally deliver on this front.

Off topic: Incidentally, yet another thread around here inspired me to buy the Icewind Dale Collector's pack today. I've never played them, so I grabbed the DVD-ROM versions of the two games and the addon for $26 off Amazon this morning. Also I have a question, even though PST is one of my favorite games, I've never actually purchased it because it's so hard to find for a reasonable price (though whats reasonable for the greatest game ever made). Anybody have a lead on a good price for it?

Cheapest I've seem for Planescape was $35 at amazon a few weeks back.

 

[Azrael the cat]

Actually, I'm not quite a gaylord - I swing both ways like a candle in the wind But I'm also happily married (to a woman) and monogomous, so it's pretty much a moot point - I doubt many gay folk would even accept me as bi anymore: living a purely hetero lifestyle and accepting heterosexual privilege and all that (my family and good friends know, but if you met me in real life you'd never ever pick me as anything but completely straight). But nonetheless, feel free to refer to me as 'my lord', and I'll try to remember to say 'Yeth my squire' whenever I respond.

[ok, do you think that's enough to troll up some more dramaz out of this thread?]

Um, can I ask you a question? Suppose you had sex with a man, would it be considered cheating? Would your wife be upset? Similarily, would you be upset if your wife had sex with another woman?

[t.

Absolutely yes to both questions - would still be a massive betrayal of trust.

P.S. It's funny, guys often talk about how 'hot' it would be if their g/f or wife shacked up with another woman - but whenever I've known that to happen in reality the guy has been fucking pissed over it. I've known a couple of cases where at first the guy has been semi-ok about it, a little uncomfortable but obviously thinking 'hey, this is what I've dreamed of, I should be cool with it shouldn't I?', and then slowly it dawns on them - they meet the other woman and find out that unlike the porn vids where lesbians are always glamour models, this woman is a short-haired butch-lesbian, then starts to realise that the other woman REALLY doesn't like HIM (after all, he is the competition), and that unlike his porn films he isn't going to be invited to watch, and then the wife takes off and leaves with the kids to shack up with the lover while he's spending the next 15 years bitching about how he's having to pay child support to his ex that's shacked up with her female gum instructor....

 

[LRP]

Welp saving the download just in case the mod never happens. However I will continue to wait for an official release or the site to go dead again. I don't understand their upset frankly, this was long over due. They've had three years after all to get this out there, and nothing but smart ass or no comments on their own forum boards. As one poster pointed out, bit more interaction such as trailers and what not might have helped. I don't know how they kept it from leaking out this long.

If the entire deal dies off then with the leaked stuff already out there perhaps someone else can pick it up and finish it off. IMO as big as the project was, I fail to see why it ever took three years (and what might even be more years to follow), to get it done.

IMHO open betas are ever so much better for actually finishing out and polishing up a mod, and since the leak kind of surprised they actually went the other direction with it, the Arcanum mod and several others have been mentioned already. It would seem like a great time to get other feedback and help though WTH I know noting about modding.

Finally are you SURE WanderingThrough2 isn't Andirha?

 

[Ferc Kast]

Welp saving the download just in case the mod never happens. However I will continue to wait for an official release or the site to go dead again. I don't understand their upset frankly, this was long over due. They've had three years after all to get this out there, and nothing but smart ass or no comments on their own forum boards. As one poster pointed out, bit more interaction such as trailers and what not might have helped. I don't know how they kept it from leaking out this long.

Don't you get it? This mod will happen and be released

. Actually, we didn't deserve anything; But, they thought it'd be a good thing for restore the things that got cut due to the rushing to get the game released in the first place. So, why ask them to rush this mod? We wouldn't like it if we ended up worse than the original release. You mean their "when it's done" comments? 'Cause if so, those were smart alek or no comments. They were trying to make sure no one was disappointed by them not keeping a set release date, as most modders (including myself) do.

If the entire deal dies off then with the leaked stuff already out there perhaps someone else can pick it up and finish it off. IMO as big as the project was, I fail to see why it ever took three years (and what might even be more years to follow), to get it done.

'Cause that always goes over well. Again, read my comment above. IDK, but maybe there's this thing called "Real Life". Some people actually have a life outside of modding. (Which can cause mods to take longer to release.) Besides, they are trying to get it as bug-free as possible for...*gasp*...us, the public. The least we can give them, in return, is some patience.

 

[aboyd]

IDK, but maybe there's this thing called "Real Life". Some people actually have a life outside of modding.

It was completely irresponsible of them to take on a project when they had such distractions in real life, especially considering all the volunteers they've turned away who DID have time to work on it.

I am NOT impressed by this cop-out excuse they give. It makes me admire them LESS.

 

[BIOShazard]

So your saying that the ideal modder is one who has no life? The way your sounding, most people on the interwebz have no life except the interwebz. I've only met one young man like that.
The "When Its Done" means that TG isn't gonna do what Lucas Arts did to Obsidian, and rush it, which caused all the cut content anyways. Which would you rather have? A half-assed release that doesn't appeal to the audience, but is released sooner, or a near perfect mod with only a few bugs that is released later?

 

[Texas Red]

Jaylittle, I took HK47 in to my party when the droids attacked me on Nar Shaddaa. Nothing happened, no response from HK 47.

So this factory, how do I get to go there? I'm wrapping up Onderon and all of the other planets are done.