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Vapourware KOTOR 2 Restoration Project (not the Restored Content Mod)

aron searle

Arcane
Joined
Nov 27, 2007
Messages
2,720
Location
United Kingdom (of retardation)
It'd take a long while to trawl through the details of a saved-game for all the pertinent info,

You. are. talking. shit

you said they needed

"What quest paths have they taken? Do they have a list of the dialog options they'd taken for the various relevant conversations? "

which is all in the save game, even i can do that, and i know jack shit about modding, but had to do so to fix a broken save game once.

If they are actually asking people to write this shit down.........

Not to mention the hassle over operating systems and graphics drivers. "

What the fuck do drivers or operating systems have to do with broken scripts?

helton said:
They've loaded the saved games which they haven't accepted?

smooth.
 

Alec McCabe

Novice
Joined
Jul 4, 2008
Messages
37
skyway said:
Alec, you just seem to miss one small detail.

Team Jizzka asks testers for savegames with bugs that are already happened. Right after the moment when they are happened.
"Team" also lies about some "not working savegames". How exactly can a savegame not work - unless the poster specially messed it up? And I doubt anyone did.

They do, yes. But if they can't identify the bug from that savedgame, then they need a savedgame prior to the bug occuring, preferably one with a list of what options led to it. Part of being a beta tester for TSLRP is keeping a large stable of regular saved games from which you can draw one of these.

When I say the saved game 'didn't work', what I mean is that they fall into the 'reason for bug cannot be identified' category.

aron searle said:
If they are actually asking people to write this shit down.........

It's needed for prior saved games, see above.

What the fuck do drivers or operating systems have to do with broken scripts?

If a bug can't be reproduced, then there's some other factor causing things to go wrong. System eccentricities are something that can't be ruled out.
 

MetalCraze

Arcane
Joined
Jul 3, 2007
Messages
21,104
Location
Urkanistan
So what will stop a single patriot from keeping pre- and post- bug savegames for the "Team" needs? All they have to do is just ask. Not all guys who post bugs are dumb you know.
 

Alec McCabe

Novice
Joined
Jul 4, 2008
Messages
37
skyway said:
So what will stop a single meaningless buzzword from keeping pre- and post- bug savegames for the "Team" needs?

The simple fact that they don't need it. If the bug is still there, eventually a beta tester will come across it.

It may take a while. I don't see this as a problem.
 

MetalCraze

Arcane
Joined
Jul 3, 2007
Messages
21,104
Location
Urkanistan
What if a beta-tester came across it but they can't reproduce it due to the lack of the savegame and they fired that beta-tester before getting one?
Also why not make it faster by taking the goddamn savegame?
 

aron searle

Arcane
Joined
Nov 27, 2007
Messages
2,720
Location
United Kingdom (of retardation)
So it may take them a while (y'know months/years) to find a bug everyone already knows about.

Yea, i see no problem with that.

/sarcasm tag for the stupid

If a bug can't be reproduced

Except it appears to be only them that can't reproduce it......

It's needed for prior saved games, see above.

they. do. not. need. to. write. down. info. that. is. kept. in. the. savegame.



You are clearly not one of the programmers, so why you are trying to defend them, by talking shit you don't understand is beyond me.
 

RainSong

Scholar
Joined
May 13, 2008
Messages
256
Location
potato motherland
Stop this discussion

fuck

it's painful to read.

I must say it's one of the most pathetic discussions I have ever seen.

Boring, with arguments on a lvl of 5-year-old child and on top of that with someone who probably can change shit.

fuck
 

aboyd

Liturgist
Joined
Oct 28, 2004
Messages
843
Location
USA
It's much better to have Alec here instead of some member of TG that might be knowledgeable and reasonable. Let Alec humiliate TG by making inept and inane arguments. He gives them the level of "justice" they deserve.
 

Alec McCabe

Novice
Joined
Jul 4, 2008
Messages
37
Boring; because I'm trying to be reasonable here. No, I'm not throwing insults. They don't help.

It also doesn't help that people don't seem to read what I'm saying, or for that matter only read rumours and half-truths rather than going to the source.
As an example, sure, the information is in a saved-game after the bug has occurred. When a bug can't be reproduced from that saved-game, a saved-game from the same playthrough that was taken at some point before the bug occurred is needed, preferably with a list of the steps the player took that led to the bug. When the problem can't be found from one angle, you try another. This is not talking shit. Go back to my posts, read them through - if you want - and understand. I am not embarrassing myself, or anyone. At worst, I'm playing Devil's Advocate, but I guess that's not welcome if you don't like the possibility of being wrong. Ok, maybe what I've written isn't always clear, but that's what happens when you're put in the position of trying to explain the obvious.

The truth is that the people who are embarrassing themselves are the ones who get worked up, because... it makes them look stupid. There's no grand conspiracy to defraud or cheat the gaming public here. There's no lies, there's no robin-hood rich-and-poor justification for an act that was a bit dumb. All there is, is an insular and harassed modding team wanting to complete a task on their own, a mod that's going slowly, and a fool who probably thought he was doing the right thing by leaking a buggy beta.

And that's all there is. There's no other issues; except possibly time. And when you get down to it, time doesn't matter all that much. It's not like we're going anywhere. It's only a mod. I'm looking forward to seeing what they come up with, eventually; if the project dies, no worry, as several of the longer-serving beta testers have gone on record saying they'd release the most recent build if that happens. And that was made clear before the beta leak, too.

As for the hate; it's all very confused, isn't it? Some don't seem to know if they're hating the Team or the Team's more vocal defenders. It's also hard to see where it comes from, except from the mouths of yammering trolls, or perhaps frustration at not being able to contribute. For the latter, that's just how it is; for the former, people are willing to demonise, but no-one mentions the fixes that TG made available, or the modding tools they developed that they released to the public, or the four mods that were inspired by their small community, one of which has been released and two of which are in hopeful development (shame about M4-78, but what can you do, eh?). If you look back on that, one can't avoid the possibility that perhaps TG is a positive force in the KOTOR modding scene.

I don't think there's much else for me to say, except -

someone who probably can change shit.

Don't know who you were expecting, pal; President Bush? Elvis? None of this is really important, and I'm just as valid a commentator as anyone.
 

-Pavlos-

Novice
Joined
Feb 3, 2008
Messages
72
jaylittle said:
hey keep beating the "fix all the bugs" drum, but it seems clear that even though bugs have been marked as fixed on mantis, they aren't actually getting fixed.
I've never known anyone on Team Jizzka to do this on purpose, you should check the build in which they were fixed because if you're still experiencing them then either the fix was no good or it is applied in a build which you do not have access to.

I'll look into the bugs; I'm tied down with work at the moment.

Edit: As to why there are an awful lot of bugs that have not been reported; it may be something to do with a recent wave of new content. Not all of it was restored in earlier builds. I know that I haven't tested any build with the latest content additions (such as the new Atris cutscenes).

Edit 2: A lot of major, crash, and block bugs (such as triggers failing to start conversations and people just standing around when they should be doing something) can be chalked up to playing the game too much. Sounds odd but Odyssey does some weird things when it's been left running for a while. Come out of it, load an earlier save and then try to go through the section again.
 

mondblut

Arcane
Joined
Aug 10, 2005
Messages
22,871
Location
Ingrija
skyway said:
Team Jizzka asks testers for savegames with bugs that are already happened. Right after the moment when they are happened.

Are you serious?!

This is beyond retarded.

A standart bug report is a saved game immediately BEFORE the reproducible bug along with instructions on how to reproduce it, and crash log if applicable and necessary.

A post-bug save is utterly useless.
 

jaylittle

Scholar
Joined
Mar 11, 2008
Messages
241
Alec McCabe said:
Boring; because I'm trying to be reasonable here. No, I'm not throwing insults. They don't help.
Look the bottom line is this: The people who have downloaded the leak and do not have any mods installed other than TSLRP itself have run into a number of issues. These issues have:

1) Either been marked as fixed in mantis or do not exist within mantis.

2) Have been publically denied as existing by the Team Gizka devs. There is a nice little thread on the TG forums in which Dashus denies that these bugs we've reported exist at all.

This is why we are pissed off. Yes it is their mod. But to publicly lie about these bugs in an obvious attempt to discredit those providing information about them is asinine beyond belief. Sure Team Gizka has contributed a lot to the KOTOR modding community. Frankly I could give a shit. They are treating their fans like ass, so they shouldn't be surprised when some of their now ex-fans start acting like asses.

But frankly arguing with you has grown tiring. Team Gizka is reaping what they have sown. I have no sympathy for them and their "plight of fame" that you seem so desperate to describe to us. Perhaps you'll find that the Holowan Laboratories forum on the LucasForums site to be more sympathetic to your cause. Perhaps they will join hands with you and have a good cry.

EDIT: Here is a link to the thread in which Dashus lies through his teeth.
 

jeetu

Novice
Joined
Jul 6, 2008
Messages
19
Alec McCabe said:
You're sure that their final release will have serious bugs in it... but you're also sure they're sitting on a fully playable version? What?

This leaked beta is buggy but fully playable. Many people have finshed it including me.
Look around people have been reporting bugs here. Its good that people like Pavlos are making an effort to check for bugs reported in this forum. I have even uploaded the video as a proof. Ya 1.0c will have bugs for sure because they are not restoring the whole game. TG team is not touching the first 2 levels. We need Ulic's patch to make it complete. Plus they have not implemented some of the bug fixes that are/were present in their own dowload section. Some of the bugs reported have been closed and deemed not fixable by them.

Alec McCabe said:
The simple fact that they don't need it. If the bug is still there, eventually a beta tester will come across it.
It may take a while. I don't see this as a problem.

Beta testers have not come accross some of it because they are few in number and moreover don't have enough time. You can refer Pavlos comments to check that. I think it has already taken long enough.

-Pavlos- said:
I know that I haven't tested any build with the latest content additions (such as the new Atris cutscenes).
Thats good news. I hope it resolves Atris - Kreia issue. No need to press 1 as workaround i guess.

Helton said:
It isn't so fun when you post Pavlos because you don't ooze stupidity.
Ya, its a refreshing change from Alec McCabe.

-Pavlos- said:
A lot of major, crash, and block bugs (such as triggers failing to start conversations and people just standing around when they should be doing something) can be chalked up to playing the game too much. Sounds odd but Odyssey does some weird things when it's been left running for a while. Come out of it, load an earlier save and then try to go through the section again.
That will be TG team's final excuse for everything i guess.
 

MetalCraze

Arcane
Joined
Jul 3, 2007
Messages
21,104
Location
Urkanistan
mondblut said:
skyway said:
Team Jizzka asks testers for savegames with bugs that are already happened. Right after the moment when they are happened.

Are you serious?!

This is beyond retarded.

A standart bug report is a saved game immediately BEFORE the reproducible bug along with instructions on how to reproduce it, and crash log if applicable and necessary.

A post-bug save is utterly useless.

Actually I don't think so (They also ask for the savegame before). The messed up Aurora Engine's savegame will contain all those incorrect variables (that lead to the broken script) which they will be able to compare with the working savegame/savegame before the bug if they can't reproduce it with their methods.

@Pavlos: Will your "no influence shown" fix work with TSLRP?

@Jeetu: tell me moar about the Ulic's patch
 

Volrath

Arcane
Patron
Joined
May 21, 2007
Messages
4,299
Fuck, just give the leak to Drog and let him fix it. He'll have it finished by thursday.
 

Deleted member 7219

Guest
Let's just all agree Team Gizka are pricks and leave it at that.
 

Alec McCabe

Novice
Joined
Jul 4, 2008
Messages
37
mondblut said:
A standart bug report is a saved game immediately BEFORE the reproducible bug along with instructions on how to reproduce it, and crash log if applicable and necessary.

That's what I've been trying to tell people, but it doesn't stick.

Skyway - a save after the bug is in theory all you need, but in practice it's not.

jaylittle said:
I have no sympathy for them and their "plight of fame" that you seem so desperate to describe to us.

If you actually read the posts I write - which I guess you don't, so never mind - you'd note that I'm not 100% on TG's policies. Unless you think 'insular' is a compliment, which... it isn't.

However, disagreeing with you is much the same thing, as you are 100% against TG, and to be honest, Jay, you have been even before these most recent events, so claiming umbrage now isn't gonna fly.

Lies? What 'lies', exactly?
 

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