Vapourware KOTOR 2 Restoration Project (not the Restored Content Mod)

[SpaceKungFuMan]

I repeat - how can it be a violation of something if TG de facto breaks the law themselves by decompiling, altering and sharing the code that belongs to LucasArts but acting like something was stolen from them? TSLRP is not something they create. It is just a bunch of altered scripts made by Obsidian and owned by LucasArts.

Well, if it is reverse engineered, that is always legal. If they wrote their own scripts, they would have rights in that. If they just modified Obsidian's scripts, that is more iffy. It doesn't matter because as I said before there is no real viable cause of action against them. I just don't like to see terminology used incorrectly, and embezzlement is absolutely the wrong term here.

 

[aron searle]

and embezzlement is absolutely the wrong term here.

I'm waiting for them to cry rape.

 

[MetalCraze]

Well TG never reverse-engineered anything obviously.
But they act like the code it is theirs. Literally. Besides they were going to release it for everyone anyway. And got all whiny when some true patriot tired of waiting for nothing (project didn't show any signs of life for 1.5 months - oh they saw it coming) and did the right thing.
Butthurt that followed makes Team Jizzka either attention whores or drama queens.

 

[aron searle]

Skyway

Sadly the drama is over, please stop trying to beat the dead horse back to life.

 

[jeetu]

Fuck me. The jag offs over at TG are now claiming that all of the bug reports from the leak cannot be reproduced by the devs or few remaining testers. What a load of shit. Everybody has gotten nailed with the HK-50 encounter bug. Everybody has run into the Kreia-Atris "press 1 to continue at the half black screen" bug. Oh but we must be using the mod in an uncontrolled way. I for one had no other mods installed because I don't generally deal with mods. So there is no conflict.
If TG eventually does release 1.0c1 and it contains some of these bugs; Wow. I can only imagine the level of drama that will occur then.

Well said. I encountered all these bugs and quiet a few more. One unmentioned bug that actually freezes the game. A BLOCK as TG people calls it. So I am pretty sure their 1.0c version will have some bugs. Somw of these bugs are too obvious to miss. TG people knew about these bugs and will use these as a leverage to delay the release of their project. They already have mentioned their 90-90 rule as a shield. They are bunch of egomaniac resting on fully playable mod just to inflate their egos. No wonder they don't want to accept the suggestions from guys who played leaked beta.

 

[Alec McCabe]

Either way, what difference does it really make at this point?

You tell us, you're the one who accused him.

And the fact that he remains part of the beta team is almost conclusive evidence of his guilt, you say?

Let's read that through again, shall we? And you can point out the part where it makes sense.

Everybody has gotten nailed with the HK-50 encounter bug.

'Everybody', huh.

Gee, you know, maybe you could ask him?

You could, but in any case what programs he or she has installed is only part of the information you'd need. What quest paths have they taken? Do they have a list of the dialog options they'd taken for the various relevant conversations? Not to mention the hassle over operating systems and graphics drivers.

some true patriot

The jingoism and polarised propaganda bullshit isn't getting any better. 'True patriot'? Seriously? Patriot of who? He or she leaked a buggy beta of a mod for an old computer game, that's hardly Congressional Medal of Honor stuff.

 

[Helton]

Alec McCabe you are a traitor to the faither and you will rot in skyway's basement long before you rot in hell.

 

[-Pavlos-]

Post your bug reports here and I will attempt to verify them on my next play-through (whenever that is). When I get around to checking and it turns out that the bug report is valid then I will post it on Mantis. Understand that, internally, beta testers and the closed beta team are working on a newer build than that which was publicly 'released'.

Simply because all of the cool kids are doing it: Team Jizzka is so butthurt.

 

[Trash]

Oh shut up, this will be the best mod ever once it's been released to a small group of Gizma catamites in 2020. You'll see.

 

[fret]

Do you happen to have any other mods installed? I was having the same exact problem until I uninstalled a mod that messed with the Handmaiden. I uninstalled the game, reinstalled it, and then only installed the TRP mod and was able to get past it. However, the only save that worked afterwards was the autosave I had in-between the Ebon Hawk sequence and the Academy.

Thanks! Yep, I had the "Handmaiden look" mod installed and that was interferring with Atris firing after the sisters fight. I renamed my existing override folder, made a new one, reinstalled TSLRP, and my save from the jedi masters scene worked fine after that (though I still got the half black screen dialog during the Atris/Kreia conversation). Added back in the "high level force powers" mod and the game still continued correctly past the fight. Didn't have any other mods installed. Got through the HK factory and am working through the Ravager now.

Pavlos, as far as other bugs - ran into the HK47/HK50 bug with the torture scene not triggering. The HKs nod at each other and the screen goes blank. Same as what is reported on Mantis and marked as "resolved." First triggered it on Nar Shadaa, but I didn't know at first if you did a save/load right there the trigger fired anyway. I navigated my way back to the Ebon Hawk with the screen still black (using the map for orientation) and boarded. Talked to HK47 and he did not know where the factory was. After several more HK encounters it was no different. Saw the workaround on Mantis and used KSE to reset the HK encounter numeric from 7 back to 2 and then triggered the same HK nodding/screen goes blank encounter on Dantooine. Save/reload then went and talked to HK47 on the Ebon Hawk and got him to say the factory was on Telos.

 

[jaylittle]

Either way, what difference does it really make at this point?

You tell us, you're the one who accused him.

And the fact that he remains part of the beta team is almost conclusive evidence of his guilt, you say?

Let's read that through again, shall we? And you can point out the part where it makes sense.

Good point. Let's go over this again:

1) Darth Windu leaks mod
2) Darth Windu produces forged evidence that other people were responsible
3) Closed Beta Team sliced and diced
4) Darth Windu survives unscathed

Now let's try this one on for size:

1) jaylittle leaks mod
2) jaylittle produces forged evidence that other people were responsible
3) Closed Beta Team sliced and diced
4) jaylittle survives unscathed

Now if the first set of events makes no sense, would you presume to explain why so many people seem to simply assume that the second set, a near duplicate makes sense? Only the name of the supposed perpetrator has changed. Clearly Team Gizka can't prove the innocence or the guilt of either party.

Accusing Darth Windu has some value as I've heard that particular bit of gossip more than once via email and PMs. Is it true? I have no idea. I know that I am not the leaker and not one person involved can produce a single shred of evidence to prove otherwise. Despite all of that I am still being accused. So I figure, let's turn it around a bit on my biggest accuser.

Everybody has gotten nailed with the HK-50 encounter bug.

'Everybody', huh.

Everybody who has played the leaked mod and chosen to report on their experiences in detail, yes. Deny it all you want, but Team Gizka denying the existence of this bug in 1.0b8 proves one of two things:

1) They are lying
2) They are incompetent

Personally given the increasingly erratic manner that the mods, the remaining testers and the team itself are conducting themselves in, I'm going with option #2. I think these guys are way in over their heads and they don't have a clue of how to gracefully clean up the mess they've made. They keep beating the "fix all the bugs" drum, but it seems clear that even though bugs have been marked as fixed on mantis, they aren't actually getting fixed.

At this point, I would guess that 1.0c1 will be virtually the same as 1.0b8. I'm hoping that TG will resume their nss source releases when 1.0c1 comes out so that I can diff the source tree myself and determine what they changed between the two "releases". At this point, I'm guesisng it won't be much.

You could, but in any case what programs he or she has installed is only part of the information you'd need. What quest paths have they taken? Do they have a list of the dialog options they'd taken for the various relevant conversations? Not to mention the hassle over operating systems and graphics drivers.

Yeah god forbid TG just accept a damn save game and save everybody the trouble of fapping over stupid shit like this. No beta tester on the planet is going to be able to rattle off all of the previous major choices that were made in the game without having written it down, or simply providing a save game whereby all of the variables involved can be inspected thoroughly.

The jingoism and polarised propaganda bullshit isn't getting any better. 'True patriot'? Seriously? Patriot of who? He or she leaked a buggy beta of a mod for an old computer game, that's hardly Congressional Medal of Honor stuff.

In reference to my original reply, just ask Darth Windu. I'm sure he will be able to clear that one up for you.

 

[WalterKinde]

So is this patch/mod released finally to the public?
Or can you only get the unofficial beta tester version online somewhere like torrent sites etc?

 

[jeetu]

Post your bug reports here and I will attempt to verify them on my next play-through (whenever that is). When I get around to checking and it turns out that the bug report is valid then I will post it on Mantis. Understand that, internally, beta testers and the closed beta team are working on a newer build than that which was publicly 'released'.
Simply because all of the cool kids are doing it: Team Jizzka is so butthurt.

Sounds good to me. I have seen these bugs on 2 different computers
Here are to the 2 bugs at Nar Shadda that annoyed me the most. I have included the youtube link. I hope some of the guys here can verify it too.
1. The 2 Mira (LS) or2 Hanharr bug(DS). This is a trivial/feature bug. Although very hard to ignore. Its there when Mira/Hanrarr becomes recruitable.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=udA_4P0grms
Its just a 9 sec clip.

2. This one has been real annoying. I use to to occur very often before leaked beta. Sad to know that TG team havn't eradicated it, yet. Its a MAJOR/BLOCK. It may or may not be always reproducable but its there. Perhaps the only reason i encounterd it because I use money cheat code in game itself or through KSE. Since i have lots of money in the game through it, i tend to buy everything there is. On occassions it leaves me with 2 identical items in the end. Clicking one of those will freeze the screen with music still playing. No solution exist except killing the game through Ctrl Alt Del.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AHKMlgofDyk
Its a 16 sec clip.

 

[MetalCraze]

@Pavlos:

Well you already know about the bugs with Nihilus choice and "press 1 at Telos Academy to continue". Actually only the first one concerns me most of all.

There is also another bug. When I first arrived at Telos academy and after the talk with Atris (I also did 1 fight with handmaidens and talked to Brianna) I went to get Kreia, Atton and Bao-Dur out of their cells. After that the cutscene should've played - but the screen went black instead. I bypassed the bug by reloading to the place where I didn't reach the cell yet.

Another bug is in Pazaak den on NS. Instead of telling Geredi to go meet his "friends" I've played Pazaak with him and of course won. But the quest stuck there stating that I still need to beat Geredi to meet the Champ.

Also I was never been able to reach the Telos Droid Factory. As I take it from the restored content - during one of the firefights HK-47 captures and tortures one of the droids. Well on the first firefight they malfunctioned, being unable to shoot. I killed them all but nothing happened. And after that there were only generic firefights with HK50s. Am I doing something wrong?

That's pretty much everything that bothered me during my playthrough, I also remember somebody said that when he've chosen to guard the front door at Kuunda the game was constantly giving him the black screen. I've chosen the rear door so I don't know if it's there, but keep an eye on it.

 

[FluffyKitten]

Knights of the Republic II: Sith Lords Forever

 

[Alec McCabe]

Accusing Darth Windu has some value as I've heard that particular bit of gossip more than once via email and PMs.

'Value'. Well; sorry to cast doubt on your forensic expertise, but look at what you're saying. DW accuses you in public... but then somehow produces forged evidence that incriminates eight other beta testers?

The beta testers who were let go were all part of a 'second generation' of volunteer beta testers, and the official line is simply that the Team felt that having such a large pool of beta testers was more trouble than it was worth, given the leak. I'm inclined to believe that, if only because there's no reason to believe anything else. Believing it must be DW because 'he's the only one left' is, frankly, an idea out of bad mystery novels.

For what it's worth, I do believe that someone used the name 'gamorck' as a smokescreen. However, that doesn't mean it wasn't you.

At this point, I would guess that 1.0c1 will be virtually the same as 1.0b8. I'm hoping that TG will resume their nss source releases when 1.0c1 comes out so that I can diff the source tree myself and determine what they changed between the two "releases". At this point, I'm guesisng it won't be much.

What can I say? According to Mantis, there are thirteen bugs repaired in 1.0b10 that weren't in 1.0b8, and three of those were fairly significant.

No beta tester on the planet is going to be able to rattle off all of the previous major choices that were made in the game without having written it down

Well, maybe that's what they're doing, 'Jay'! It would certainly explain why the beta-testing is slow work. No offence, but are you aware of how these games work? Variables and triggers and the like? It's quite important.

 

[aron searle]

For what it's worth, I do believe that someone used the name 'gamorck' as a smokescreen. However, that doesn't mean it wasn't you.

Oh quit being such a pussy, and just admit you're the leaker.

Well, maybe that's what they're doing, 'Jay'! It would certainly explain why the beta-testing is slow work. No offence, but are you aware of how these games work? Variables and triggers and the like? It's quite important.

Is'nt all that information in the save game files, oh unless of course the computer just "magicly" remembers which choices you made previosly on the variable checks.

 

[jaylittle]

No beta tester on the planet is going to be able to rattle off all of the previous major choices that were made in the game without having written it down

Well, maybe that's what they're doing, 'Jay'! It would certainly explain why the beta-testing is slow work. No offence, but are you aware of how these games work? Variables and triggers and the like? It's quite important.

Yeah I write code for a living genius. I know how it works. That's why I also know that not accepting save game files while claiming that you can't replicate the issue is total and complete nonsense. If they were forcing beta testers to write that shit down, well what can I say? That kind of stupidity speaks for itself.

 

[jaylittle]

What can I say? According to Mantis, there are thirteen bugs repaired in 1.0b10 that weren't in 1.0b8, and three of those were fairly significant.

Ironically we've discovered at least two fairly significant bugs that were already marked as closed in mantis prior to 1.0b8, yet existed in 1.0b8. In addition a number of other serious bugs have been discovered by multiple people who have played the leak that did not appear to already be in mantis.

From what I and others can see, no action has been taken within mantis as a result of these findings. We know we aren't lying - so it's either that the team is lying about them or they are just outright incompetent.

Frankly at this point - I believe they are just incompetent. Our very own experiences with 1.0b8 pretty much invalidates the "progress" being recorded in mantis. Add to that the fact that there are far less beta testers now than before and anybody with half a brain has to wonder: Just how are they testing all of these supposed "fixes"?

What I don't understand is that if they are going to lie about their progress and the state of the codebase, why not just release it and let a competent group of modders finish the job? What have they got to loose at this point? They clearly don't care that 1.0c1 is going to be a disaster.

 

[Alec McCabe]

Is'nt all that information in the save game files, oh unless of course the computer just "magicly" remembers which choices you made previosly on the variable checks.

It'd take a long while to trawl through the details of a saved-game for all the pertinent info, and given that the issues apparently aren't reproducible, it might well be wasted time, and the issue is elsewhere. Do you want this project to be slowed down even more while the team trawls through every 'uncontrolled' saved game they get for a piece of information that may not even be there?

Yeah I write code for a living genius. I know how it works.

Then you'll also know that debugging someone else's code is quite different to writing it, and that this kind of information is actually important.

Our very own experiences with 1.0b8 pretty much invalidates the "progress" being recorded in mantis. Add to that the fact that there are far less beta testers now than before and anybody with half a brain has to wonder: Just how are they testing all of these supposed "fixes"?

See, this is what gets me about all this bile. They haven't lied about their progress at all - it's clearly stated that the bug-count and Mantis aren't countdowns, and anyone who's been following the project knows that bugs have been re-opened in Mantis before. There's no lies on either side. The testers and the project team have opened some of the saved-games they've recieved, and they've made it clear that the issues haven't appeared, so there's obviously another factor that's unaccounted for. They can't trace it, because they don't have any of the information I mentioned to do so. And I daresay as soon as one of the beta testers manages to reproduce one of these bugs in a playthrough, it'll be reopened on Mantis. But that hasn't happened yet.

Of course, you can't 'invalidate any progress made' in Mantis, because by its' very nature, Mantis is forever being changed, bugs are going back and forth. No-one was supposed to see 1.0b8 because it wasn't ready! Because it was a work in progress. Because it was still in the process of being tested. 1.0b10 isn't an 'improved' version of 1.0b8 with tested fixes, it's merely a version of 1.0b8 with more untested bugfixes. How are they testing it? Slowly. But we all know that, so it's redundant to complain about it.

The problem isn't with the Team, or with the people sending in the saved games. The problem's in your perception of what's happening, which is wrong.

 

[Helton]

You know you could load the save game to see if you could reproduce the bug!?

I know, right.

And players are dicks because they always play their games in these uncontrolled ways and make our Da Vinciish restorativators have to playtest all kinds of variables. Everyone should just play the game only one way and all of these variables don't have to be taken care of and bugs fixed for the other paths.

 

[Alec McCabe]

You know you could load the save game to see if you could reproduce the bug!?

That's exactly what they've done! And it hasn't worked!

So I am pretty sure their 1.0c version will have some bugs. Somw of these bugs are too obvious to miss.

They are bunch of egomaniac resting on fully playable mod just to inflate their egos.

You're sure that their final release will have serious bugs in it... but you're also sure they're sitting on a fully playable version? What?

 

[Helton]

They've loaded the saved games which they haven't accepted?

 

[Alec McCabe]

They've loaded the saved games which they haven't accepted?

Where did I say that they haven't accepted any, again? According to the forum, some have been tested, they don't work, the Team's not accepting any more.

 

[MetalCraze]

Alec, you just seem to miss one small detail.

Team Jizzka asks testers for savegames with bugs that are already happened. Right after the moment when they are happened.
"Team" also lies about some "not working savegames". How exactly can a savegame not work - unless the poster specially messed it up? And I doubt anyone did.