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Larian General Discussion Thread

Dishonoredbr

Erudite
Joined
Jun 13, 2019
Messages
2,419
It's funny how literally the most successful CRPG of all time did not get a review here.
Tbh the game is super big and you gotta do at least two complete runs to properly review it with how much content that's missable.
 

Mortmal

Arcane
Joined
Jun 15, 2009
Messages
9,490
There is an incredibly strong bias against Larian here.
It would been easier to say what studio the Codex doesn't have a bias against or just pure hatred towards tbh.
Yes but the few guys making the news should be more neutral. In this case, it's very important information: new studios and two new RPGs are upcoming. These are likely to be of a much bigger scope, and I dare to say, much more exciting than what I see on the front page. For example, a coat of paint on a 43-year-old game, and some other pixel art garbage cashing in on nostalgia, pretending to copy Goldbox games while including nothing at all reminiscent of those games, and being more primitive than those decades-old games.
Based.


It's funny how literally the most successful CRPG of all time did not get a review here.


Larian and BG3 completely mind broke the codex.
Of course, it's not getting a review. Codex's style is edgy and critical of RPGs, which is hard to do since it's the best RPG ever made. If you start to write something that way about BG3, you have to keep the same standard for everyone else; then everything else is complete shit compared to it. The next exciting things are coming from Larian. There's absolutely nothing else, maybe a Fallout 5 done by Obsidian at best. Being extremely optimistic, some UFO indie dev might come out of nowhere, but most of the indies are primitive, backyard projects that do not improve upon 40-year-old games. It broke Codex's mind, but not only that. The first thing other developers said was not that they will strive to do their best and match it, but 'don't expect anything like that from us ever,' and indeed we will never get anything nearly as good from them.
 

PulsatingBrain

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Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Codex+ Now Streaming! Enjoy the Revolution! Another revolution around the sun that is. My team has the sexiest and deadliest waifus you can recruit. Pathfinder: Wrath
Annual Kirill post:


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DaveO

Erudite
Joined
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Messages
1,258
Sound track elevated a mediocre or slightly below average role playing game.
 

Roguey

Codex Staff
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https://www.gamesradar.com/games/ba...d-instead-there-was-not-a-lot-to-choose-from/

Baldur's Gate 3 studio CEO says that if he couldn't make a D&D game, Fallout and Ultima were the only other RPG licenses he would have considered instead : "There was not a lot to choose from"

...

"It's one of those IPs that you know a lot of people will want to work on. So it would be great for attracting other people to the studio," explains Vincke of his reasoning at the time. "I felt like there was a glass ceiling that we wouldn't be able to break through unless we had triple-A production values, budget, marketing, all the triple A things.

Elsewhere in the interview, Vincke discussed the impact of those production values, and how they fitted into the game's pipeline, particularly when it came to cinematics. "From where I was sitting, coming back to my strategic vision for Larian, [cinematics] made perfect sense. If we were going to bring a game like Original Sin 2 to larger crowds, we would need to have triple-A production values, whatever that takes. Because it's only then that we're going to discover if there's a market for this type of game."

Vampire the Masquerade fans either seething or breathing a sigh of relief.

I don't think there's really all that much enthusiasm for Ultima anymore. A Larian Fallout would have been a cursed monkey's paw wish (a turn based pseudo-isometric Fallout at what cost?).

Cinematics are a trap that Bioware regrets falling into. Swen may end up feeling the same if he hasn't already.
 

Contagium

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https://www.gamesradar.com/games/ba...d-instead-there-was-not-a-lot-to-choose-from/

Baldur's Gate 3 studio CEO says that if he couldn't make a D&D game, Fallout and Ultima were the only other RPG licenses he would have considered instead : "There was not a lot to choose from"

...

"It's one of those IPs that you know a lot of people will want to work on. So it would be great for attracting other people to the studio," explains Vincke of his reasoning at the time. "I felt like there was a glass ceiling that we wouldn't be able to break through unless we had triple-A production values, budget, marketing, all the triple A things.

Elsewhere in the interview, Vincke discussed the impact of those production values, and how they fitted into the game's pipeline, particularly when it came to cinematics. "From where I was sitting, coming back to my strategic vision for Larian, [cinematics] made perfect sense. If we were going to bring a game like Original Sin 2 to larger crowds, we would need to have triple-A production values, whatever that takes. Because it's only then that we're going to discover if there's a market for this type of game."

Vampire the Masquerade fans either seething or breathing a sigh of relief.

I don't think there's really all that much enthusiasm for Ultima anymore. A Larian Fallout would have been a cursed monkey's paw wish (a turn based pseudo-isometric Fallout at what cost?).

Cinematics are a trap that Bioware regrets falling into. Swen may end up feeling the same if he hasn't already.

Caves of Lore and Skald are about the closest thing we've gotten to Ultima in a long time. I would be intrigued to see what a Larian Ultima would like like because Divine Divinity had some Ultima influence, but yeah they wouldn't be able to make their money back on something like that now.
 

MasterofThunder

Guest
Apparently if Larian didn't get the D&D license they either wanted to do a Fallout or Ultima game. So that means we could've had an Ultima with gay bear sex or a Fallout with gay bear sex. Truly a crying shame.
 

Vyvian

Educated
Joined
Jul 11, 2023
Messages
336
I honestly wouldn't mind a Larian Fallout game.
I wonder if they'd let them do turn-based top-down instead of first person if it ever happened though.
 

the mole

Arbiter
Shitposter
Joined
Aug 1, 2019
Messages
1,933
I honestly wouldn't mind a Larian Fallout game.
I wonder if they'd let them do turn-based top-down instead of first person if it ever happened though.
because we need another fallout with the 3 wastelands released, and god knows how many other post apoc, if the original writers and devs aren't working on it it's dead, I'd rather have modders who have a passion do it, larian wants to do their own thing, it's an ego thing
 

Jaesun

Fabulous Ex-Moderator
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MCA Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 BattleTech
Keep wondering if they might finally try something space related. Something different. (Almost) all they have ever done is Fantasy™, but that's the "safe" market to stay in. Just keep doing and stick to your thoughts on what a cRPG is Swen. :salute:
 

Harthwain

Magister
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Dec 13, 2019
Messages
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Divinity: Dragon Commander had plenty of elements you could easily translate to sci-fi.
 

Lagole Gon

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Insert Title Here RPG Wokedex Codex Year of the Donut Pathfinder: Wrath
Space opera or something like that would fit Larian pretty well. It's a better choice for Larian's "le quirky" attitude.

The accursed Franco Belgians produced many comicbooks of that genre. All of them, just like BG3, uncomfortably horny.
 
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Infinitron

I post news
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Messages
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Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
Mega-interview: https://www.pcgamer.com/games/baldu...he-past-present-and-future-of-larian-studios/

'I call it chaos at scale': For the first anniversary of Baldur's Gate 3, we spoke exclusively to Swen Vincke about the past, present and future of Larian Studios​

From failure, to reinvention, to Baldur's Gate and beyond.

It's early July, almost a year since Larian launched Baldur's Gate 3—a year in which the studio has collected a vast number of awards and accolades for its monumental RPG—and the team has swapped the Forgotten Realms for the swelteringly hot Spanish city of Barcelona. Larian is here to discuss its next game behind closed doors. A couple of days ago, on July 8, it held a summit to talk about kicking off a new RPG. "Lift off," as CEO Swen Vincke puts it.

There's the crackle of electricity in the air, not because a dragonborn sorcerer has just cast chain lightning, but because the team is about to set off on a brand new adventure. Larian's developers are now spread all over, including Dublin, Ghent, Warsaw, and here in Barcelona, where so many of them have gathered. Much of the excitement, then, is also down to a lot of them being in one place, rather than distributed across the world.


It wasn't all that long ago that Larian was comparatively tiny. "These are guesstimates," says Vincke, "but I think that Divinity: Original Sin 1 must have been around 40 people, and then Divinity: Original Sin 2 was around 120-ish. And now we're approaching 500." The new Warsaw studio has added a chunk, and Vincke says that it's "beefed up" QA, adding more internal playtesters to prepare for what's coming next.

So what is coming next? Well, that's a secret that Larian's not quite ready to share. Chatting to members of the studio following the summit, however, reveals a lot, from hints about the scope of its next two projects to why exactly the team stopped working on what was shaping up to become Baldur's Gate 4.

Little big developer​

Years ago, I visited Larian's Ghent studio for the conclusion of D:OS2's successful Kickstarter, and while it had grown considerably after D:OS1, it still had this small studio energy. Writing director Adam Smith, who joined Larian for Baldur's Gate 3 after years in the games journalism trenches, reckons that energy continues to be maintained despite the huge growth.

"I was a big fan of Larian, and my biggest fear joining Larian was growth might make it not the studio that I saw from when I'd spoken to Swen and other people in the past. It hasn't changed. I mean, it's crazy. The energy when people talk about making things feels like a small company. Actually, somebody said something today, one of our producers, that game development is a bunch of people sitting around a screen getting excited. And that's still how it is."

"I call it chaos at scale," Vincke adds. "We're a studio that gives a lot of freedom to developers. We encourage it, actually, bottom up, because it's unmanageable otherwise. Different people have to do their own thing. And then obviously, we have to manage the chaos that comes out of it, so that's a large part of the job. But the fact that we start like that, and we have been on purpose keeping studios not too large—so they're basically people that all know each other still, which is a very important part—is the thing that makes it work. It's as simple as that. So it is just empowering developers themselves."

An especially saucy scene from BG3 is a good example of this. Smith was walking through the mostly empty office when he spotted something the cinematic animator and cinematic artist had been working on. It was the final part of the now infamous Halsin bear sex scene, when we see a squirrel react to it by dropping its nut. "That was them independently just saying 'What's a cool way we can end this scene?' And they experimented with it, they tried it, we happened to see it, and we were like 'Holy shit'. [We] didn't know at the time that was going to become famous."

This structure of flexibility and experimentation conveniently matches Larian's design philosophy, which Vincke describes as "player first, always". And this has been evident across all of its games, where player agency is paramount. "I started my summit here by literally telling [Larian], treat the player like you would want to be treated. That's literally how you should make a game. I keep on repeating, if you see something in the game that you would not want to see in another game, don't do it—just keep on working on it, or don't do it at all." Larian's systems all stem from that rule, which is why its RPGs don't feel prescriptive. "If it's on rails, you can go to a theme park; this is not a theme park."

Giving players access to powerful spells like teleportation or talking to corpses early on really encapsulates this philosophy. In BG3, you have so many ways to get out of a scrape, uncover hidden areas and get up to all sorts of mischief right away, rather than having to wait 50 hours before you can start truly doing what you want. But this also means Larian's games have to be designed in such a way that the developers must get into the players' heads and figure out what they might want to do.

"We have to foresee a whole bunch of things," says Vincke, "and then we have to make sure there's a fallback for all the things players will come up with." And then there needs to be all these rewards and motivators to keep players exploring. Fancy items, compelling storylines, big surprises. "And that's essentially how we approach games. "So everything we do, every single thing within the studio, is built to allow us to do more of that."

A publisher's nightmare​

One of the reasons Larian can do this is because it isn't beholden to anyone else. It's an independent studio that doesn't need to rely on publishers, and while it does have investment from the likes of Tencent, they don't have a seat at the table.

"If you see it, it'll scare you, as a shareholder, as a publisher," says Vincke. "The very first thing you will try to do is get it under control—you will try to scope it, you will try to box it, you will try to control it, which is exactly the opposite of what we want to do. These days, especially when you have so much entertainment, people are only going to put their time into something that keeps on engaging them. In the type of game that we make, that means that we need to have a lot of content, and you put a lot of content in there that never nobody's ever going to see. Which is really not obvious, right? Because it's like, why are we spending a million dollars on a dragon, which nobody's ever going to see, except like five people who made that obscure choice? Because if they see it, they have to be happy too. So that's why I put the bloody dragon there, because that's the logical consequence of the things that they've done."

While Larian's approach would likely terrify a lot of publishers and investors, there's no doubt that many of them would still like a piece of this pie. The industry is obsessed with the studio, and all eyes are on what it's planning next. In the year since launch, it has undeniably become one of the world's most influential developers. But Vincke attributes its series of big successes, from D:OS onwards, to its biggest failure: Ego Draconis.

Divinity 2: Ego Draconis was the third game in the Divinity series, following on from Divine Divinity and Beyond Divinity. Vincke recalls that it had a lot of things that could have made it a "breakthrough game", but unfortunately it didn't come together.

"It was ambitious, had a lot of stuff going on, but none of it was really well done," he said. "So everything was really the product of being too ambitious with too small a team and not having enough resources, and then the publisher insisted on releasing it when it wasn't ready. And so I fought very long and hard about that, because I thought about quitting at that point. You can't just go from failure to failure to failure. You've got to do something right. This is famously when I dropped publishers."

Vincke still believes the game had a lot going for it, like the combat and the narrative, even if the latter "didn't deliver". But Larian had attempted to do too much. "We couldn't do all these things because we were too small. So we needed to reinvent ourselves. I said, 'If we do one thing right, it has to be the combat, and you have to be able to play it with your friends.' And that was D:OS1. The story was really tacked on. D:OS1 was a success, so I looked at that and said 'Now we need to nail the story.' D:OS1's story was done in like three days or something. Now we spend years discussing story and trying to develop characters."

As well as this reinvention came things like the complete dominance of digital distribution, "and there weren't 320,000 middlemen that were just taking cuts on everything", as well as the rise of Kickstarter and early access. This helped Larian fund D:OS1 and 2, and then actually make money out of them. Now, though, it's in a position where it doesn't need Kickstarter. Unsurprisingly, BG3 has filled its coffers.

"We launched, and we were nervous as hell, " Smith remembers. "Early access helped with that, because you knew that people enjoyed what you had, but it was still really nerve wracking. And I remember at some point in the night, we were having a celebration. We were looking at the Steam numbers, seeing the numbers going up and up and up. And the first time I spoke to Swen after launch, I said something like 'Did you expect this?' And he said, 'You know what this means? It means we get to do it again.' That was really it."

The summer of RPGs​

BG3 launched during a busy summer for RPGs. Diablo 4 had just arrived, and both Starfield and Cyberpunk 2077: Phantom Liberty were imminent. Larian shifted the release date to avoid a clash. "Big comes before small," says Vincke. "The biggest release gets the space, and then the others have to move for it. This has always been a universal truth. So we recognised Starfield as a bigger game than us. So that's why we had to move. Players were not going to be playing multiple RPGs of this size at the same time. That's impossible. So you were going to force players to make a choice, so we said 'OK, we'll take that choice away and move elsewhere.'"

Instead of Starfield sucking all the oxygen out of the room when it launched, however, BG3 kept selling, and continues to. Hardly a day goes by without sites like ours covering it, and you all keep reading about it. You're ravenous, even a year after launch. For a game that isn't live service, which isn't going to be getting any DLC or expansions, it's almost unheard of. Larian ended up going so much further than just managing to compete with Bethesda, Blizzard and CDPR.

Since launch, Larian has released a large number of patches and hotfixes, squashing bugs as well as adding new features, an epilogue, more evil options—countless additions, tweaks and treats. But now Baldur's Gate 3 is done, for the most part.

"A complete experience," says Vincke. "There's lots of stuff we wanted to do that we ended up not doing. People always ask what are the features that you didn't want to cut. But in fairness, I think you got what you paid for when you start playing the game. You got a good experience. You had a lot of choices, you were rewarded for those choices, the game respected them in many, many ways. You got a good character development experience. You had fun in combat—lots of tactical combat that you can approach in many, many different ways. These were the things we wanted to create. We're moving on, so in all our hearts the game is done."

"People will datamine things that are in the game," adds Smith, "but there's a reason we didn't put them live, because we felt they detracted. Putting more in and continuously tweaking can make something worse."

Larian has been discussing BG3 for years, and working on it for a lot longer, so while Vincke and Smith still talk about it with enthusiasm and eagerly share anecdotes about its development, it's tinged with, if not exhaustion, then at least a readiness to be done with the game. BG3 was initially planned to be a one-shot. No expansions. No sequels. At least not from Larian. But there was a period when more Baldur's Gate was on the cards.

Baldur's gaol​

"So if something is super successful, obviously everyone's [asking] you, 'When are you going to make the next one?'", says Vincke. "And when you, as a developer, come out of this little miserable cave that you've been sitting in for many, many hours as you're finishing your thing, you're vulnerable. You're emotionally drained, because you don't know what the reaction of the people is going to be; there's so much hope and anticipation in there, there's a lot of responsibility. So you tend to be prone to do the obvious thing, which was really just make an add-on, or a standalone add-on, or start working on a sequel, because it's the easiest route to take. And we actually started doing that, because we've got the engine, got everything in here, all we need to do is add extra levels or just make some new stories—how hard can it be?

"It's something that you all would have liked, I think. I'm sure, actually. And we actually went pretty fast, because the production machine was still warm. You could already play stuff. But you played it and you looked and it, and, like, you know, this is OK. I mean, we'll probably have to redo it 10 times. And do we really want to do this for the next three years? Because we thought we'd make it in one year, and then you could see it's not going to happen, it's going to take two, three years. And having just done six years of D&D, which is not our own thing, are we really going to spend all this time on this and abandon our own plans? Yeah, maybe not for an add-on, but maybe BG4? That makes a lot of sense. So why don't we do it for BG4? Oh, yeah, that sounds like a really good idea. Let's make BG4. All the stuff that we did for this thing, we can just move it in there, people are gonna love it. Go for it. And then the same thought process again."

At this point, Vincke dramatically sighs, reliving the moment he decided he didn't want to be trapped in a D&D-shaped prison. "Another X amount of years, same thing, exactly the same mechanics, same problems that we actually already solved, just evolving them. And then you start looking at the other things that you had planned and pushing them back, and then you've come back to your senses, because by then the vulnerability is gone."

Staring ahead at this less than ideal future, Vincke stopped thinking about the easiest route. "We should be looking at how we can do stuff that we get excited about." After a long overdue break during Christmas, he had a reality check, and then talked to the team about the prospect of moving on.

"It very rapidly turned, and I don't think, as developers, we ever felt better since we took that decision," he says. "Honestly, you really cannot explain or express it, how liberated we are. So morale is super high, just because we're doing new stuff again. We're doing our own thing again, we're not rehashing, we're not trying to convert rules from 50 years ago into something new."

Vincke and Smith emphasise that it was not so much an issue with D&D—"It will always be one of the coolest things I ever did," says Smith—but that Larian was tired and needed something new to energise it again.

"It needs to get the spark," says Vincke. "What we did here at the summit was pitch to our own teams. 'So this is the stuff that we're doing, are you excited?' It's the question everyone was asking: are you excited? You have to have that.

Doubling down​

While one is further along, the plan is to develop two new games concurrently, but that's already proving to be a challenge. "We had some people who were dedicated to the other one, and they just got swallowed by the ambitions of the one that we want to release first," says Vincke. "So we will try to do it concurrently, but we have to figure out how to leave people alone."

With two games on the slate, one might imagine that Larian's going to rein in its ambitions, at least when it comes to each individual game. But that's not a very Larian thing to do. "We always say we do," says Vincke, "but then we start thinking, and the machine is meant to make large games. We were made for making large, ambitious RPGs and to try new stuff. One of the core problems—it's not really a problem—but one of the core problems to do what you're suggesting is that we actually know what we want from our gameplay systems, how to evolve them, how to do new things … and they're all big."

One of the tricky parts of following up a very big game with more big games is trying to find new things to fill them with. "One of the biggest problems we have now is that whenever we're talking about things, we say we did that in BG3," says Smith. "And it turns out, we did a lot of things in BG3 when we think back to it. But it was the same during development. Have they already seen this pattern? Have they already used these verbs in this order? Have they already had this emotional arc? So you're constantly trying to make sure that they're getting a new experience, and you're not just repeating yourself, and you're not just giving them content for the sake of content."

It's not scale for the sake of scale, either. A short RPG can be a great RPG, like Disco Elysium, but as Smith points out it's a very different kind of RPG from the ones that Larian makes. "[Disco Elysium] is a case. It's still a journey, but it's much more contained. And it's a very different psychological journey. In a party-based game, especially in a multiplayer party-based game, you need people to be able to go off and do their own thing for a while, discover their own stories. Discovery is really important, and for discovery you need space, like you need the moment where they explore and go 'Holy shit, I just found something completely different over here," and for that you need the length and the space."

Even with the massive size of BG3, Larian still struggled to find space for all the stories it wanted to tell. It was actually envisioned as larger, initially. Wyll had his own area, the Red War College. Instead of meeting Gortash in Baldur's Gate, players would meet him in Candlekeep, where the first Baldur's Gate began. There was a Shadow Druids hangout, a gnome village, and a map that could be explored in a non-linear fashion just like the original games. These were cut for a variety of reasons, but one of the key issues was that they were smaller areas, leading to fewer ways for players to be able to express themselves and do their own thing. Larian opted for fewer but larger areas where more things could happen. But that also necessitated finding new homes for some characters and story beats.

On the subject of new homes, is Larian interested in leaving its well-trodden fantasy realms behind? Both Rivellon and the Forgotten Realms share a great deal, and Vincke and Co have been dabbling in this sandbox for decades. "Yes, of course," Vincke says. "There's so many things that I would like to do. Just so [few] things that you can do. So there's really a lot I would like to do…" And not for the first time during this interview Vincke catches himself about to give too much away, and clamps up. He won't be falling into any of my brilliant traps, it seems.

IP bingo​

While Larian is back doing its own thing, it's hard not to hope that it will eventually take on another existing property, maybe something that's been languishing for years. One series Vincke often discusses is Ultima, and in many ways the Divinity games are love letters to Richard Garriott's classic RPGs. Indeed, when Vincke was considering properties for Larian to work on, before it got its hands on D&D, Ultima was on the list, along with Fallout. Broaching the subject now, however, he seems to be mostly over the idea.

"That's Richard Garriott's thing," he says.

"I love Ultima," adds Smith, "but I don't think it needs to come back. The thing about Ultima for me was, 4, 5 and 6 I absolutely love, but 7, it might be my favourite game. But I don't know. Like, would you remake Ultima 7? I don't know what you'd want to do. With Baldur's Gate, there was a world I was interested in. There were characters and there was a story that felt like they could continue, and themes that were very strong. Ultima, each game … they're very independently themed."

The most interesting component, the thing worth exploring, Smith says, is the virtue system. He'd be interested in going back to the earlier Ultimas, "where it's like, how do you make an RPG that treats combat as a violent thing that is not good, which is one of Garriott's original ideas. You make RPGs or games where you hit things on the head and looted them. And he said, 'Well, what if, actually, that is a bad thing to do. What if you have to try and find peaceful solutions?' That's really interesting, but that happens across the board in RPGs now, so it's not as interesting a question as it was. So yeah, it's not a rich world to me."

Despite this, Vincke isn't closing the door entirely—to Ultima or another property. "Never say never," he says. "There's another developer who I'd love to work with one day in my life and we'd get along really well. I can't tell you who, but he's a big Ultima fan, so you never know."

What's incredibly clear, though, is that Vincke and Smith are much more excited to be free to create things that are uniquely theirs, playing in sandboxes of their own creation without the constraints of a ruleset that somebody else conjured up. And while, yes, as a D&D fan it is a shame to see Larian leave Baldur's Gate behind, it's actually thrilling to know that the best RPG developers around are now unshackled, free to take what they achieved in BG3 and push it forward or in other directions without limitations—other than self-imposed ones. For the last 10 years, Larian's trajectory has been 'bigger and better', so its next adventure could be its most impressive. For now, though, only Larian knows what it's going to be.
 

ShiningSoldier

Educated
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Jul 21, 2024
Messages
160
I don't like BG3, but I wish Larian would make an Ultima game. In my opinion, the two weakest parts of Ultima 7 were the horrible battle system and the absolute monstrosity that they called "inventory system". Turn-based combat from Larian could fix the first issue (even the miserable implementation from BG3 would be better than U7 system). Inventory in Larian games are awful too, but it's not even half that horrible as in Ultima 7.
By the way, Ultima 6 had bestiality, so it would be familiar for Larian.
 
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I don't like BG3, but I wish Larian would make an Ultima game. In my opinion, the two weakest parts of Ultima 7 were the horrible battle system and the absolute monstrosity that they called "inventory system". Turn-based combat from Larian could fix the first issue (even the miserable implementation from BG3 would be better than U7 system). Inventory in Larian games are awful too, but it's not even half that horrible as in Ultima 7.
By the way, Ultima 6 had bestiality, so it would be familiar for Larian.

Oddly enough, outside environmental interactions and the top down perspective, Larian seem to care little about Ultima.

Like: A world that's designed as a place, with time being a factor, NPCs having proper schedules, somewhat believable scale and distances in between places. Larian are building heavily compressed theme parks, with something to find, engage in combat or pick up around every second corner. DOS1+2 even had enemies gatekeeping like every single path, and due to the heavy item scaling, the games would remind you quickly if you'd ever be someplace you aren't supposed to be yet.

Back then I had suscribed to a games mailorder in Germany that listed RPGs as "world simulatiors". And Ultima was at the forefront of that. There was more of that in Kingdom Come Deliverance by a country mile. And even oldschool Gothic.
 

Harthwain

Magister
Joined
Dec 13, 2019
Messages
5,374
Like: A world that's designed as a place, with time being a factor, NPCs having proper schedules, somewhat believable scale and distances in between places. Larian are building heavily compressed theme parks, with something to find, engage in combat or pick up around every second corner. DOS1+2 even had enemies gatekeeping like every single path, and due to the heavy item scaling, the games would remind you quickly if you'd ever be someplace you aren't supposed to be yet.
Divine Divinity is a better example of "Ultima inspired" than Divinity: Original Sin 1 or 2.
 

Roguey

Codex Staff
Staff Member
Sawyerite
Joined
May 29, 2010
Messages
36,643
These days, especially when you have so much entertainment, people are only going to put their time into something that keeps on engaging them. In the type of game that we make, that means that we need to have a lot of content, and you put a lot of content in there that never nobody's ever going to see.

Make a game that's only as long as Act 1.

'If we do one thing right, it has to be the combat, and you have to be able to play it with your friends.' And that was D:OS1. The story was really tacked on. D:OS1 was a success, so I looked at that and said 'Now we need to nail the story.' D:OS1's story was done in like three days or something. Now we spend years discussing story and trying to develop characters."

The results don't really reflect all that additional effort.

We're doing our own thing again, we're not rehashing, we're not trying to convert rules from 50 years ago into something new.

5e isn't 50 years old.
 

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