Last Epoch - time travel action-RPG

[Peachcurl]

Perkel, no one has an issue with you disliking the game.

 

[Perkel]

You are retarded because "grinding for runes for hours" is not a thing in the game. At all.

Sure isn't. Just like I didn't scour shitload of rares for affixes/suffixes and other garbage to get creafting mats. Either way you miss tree in the woods. The main point is that nothing that drops makes me goo "fuck yes" because everything that drops sans few uniques are just mats for crafting.



POE literally had similar problem when they added shards. It was supposed to solve issue of people not getting anything good for hours. So instead they were suppose to get shards fairly frequently to get divine orb or other major currencies. To play 40-60 minutes and "feel rewarded"

They quickly found out that instead of fixing that issue it made game worse because instead of people hoping and eventually getting good drop they threaded water and it felt just bad.

That is the same sort of issue here. By making everything about crafting you simply decline reward of just good loot drops. With that I already explained to you in 3 separate ways so you could understand where i am coming from. If that won't do the trick then... well that's your opinion bro.

 

[Perkel]

Perkel, no one has an issue with you disliking the game.

I am not even hater of the game here. I did my review. Only really bad thing about game is campaign which is just shite and spoils the food. Rest is salvageable to good. Like combat feel being only behind wolcen which is huge praise for ARPG. I even praised item system itself (it is the crafting that i don't like much)

Give me real campaign skip (or better campaign), introduce more skills to expand tunes inside classes and voila you have great ARPG. For now it is only somewhere between average and good.

My hate for crafting comes from fundamental idea that either you can have good crafting or good loot. Those two don't mix well because they represent deterministic crafting and nondeterministic loot acquisition and LE proves once again you can't divide by 0. I would rather LE go completely into crafting with 0 loot than into mix between crafting and loot. At least it could do something different and maybe find its amazing highest high i spoke earlier.

 

[Damned Registrations]

You are retarded because "grinding for runes for hours" is not a thing in the game. At all.

Sure isn't. Just like I didn't scour shitload of rares for affixes/suffixes and other garbage to get creafting mats. Either way you miss tree in the woods. The main point is that nothing that drops makes me goo "fuck yes" because everything that drops sans few uniques are just mats for crafting.



POE literally had similar problem when they added shards. It was supposed to solve issue of people not getting anything good for hours. So instead they were suppose to get shards fairly frequently to get divine orb or other major currencies. To play 40-60 minutes and "feel rewarded"

They quickly found out that instead of fixing that issue it made game worse because instead of people hoping and eventually getting good drop they threaded water and it felt just bad.

That is the same sort of issue here. By making everything about crafting you simply decline reward of just good loot drops. With that I already explained to you in 3 separate ways so you could understand where i am coming from. If that won't do the trick then... well that's your opinion bro.

Whether or not loot drops are good has nothing to do with crafting. You could have literally nothing but currency drop with all gear in shops/crafting and still have a 'oh fuck yes!' moment if you got a lot of it in one moment.

LE's loot system is great because instead of needing some incredibly specific item to drop with the exact same 5 affixes as your current item has but bigger numbers, you can look for various items with potential to be good depending on what runes you currently have, and can quickly patch holes left by swapping in a very different piece of gear.

 

[Perkel]

Whether or not loot drops are good has nothing to do with crafting. You could have literally nothing but currency drop with all gear in shops/crafting and still have a 'oh fuck yes!' moment if you got a lot of it in one moment.

LE's loot system is great because instead of needing some incredibly specific item to drop with the exact same 5 affixes as your current item has but bigger numbers, you can look for various items with potential to be good depending on what runes you currently have, and can quickly patch holes left by swapping in a very different piece of gear.

It absolutely does have everything with crafting. IF you can make something good easily by crafting that is better than 99% loot you find then looting is just bad. Period. Same thing if you reverse it. If loot you find is soo good that you can't craft anything better then crafting is useless feature no one will use.

Like I said. I would prefer LE go completely toward crafting rather than trying to mix and match. I understand what they are going for but for me loot that drops, those "aha" moments are really important. Threading water, grinding mats, shoveling shit to craft something is not something I like and LE system seems to be designed around it. At basic level this isn't anything different than farming mats in Diablo3/4 which was just bad. Some people like it, I get it. I don't.

Shame because base loot is actually pretty great. Without that retarded crafting there would be some aha moments. Like when i found nice experimental boots with ward and then quickly realized that they are useless because my crafted ones are 100 times better.

 

[Fedora Master]

I'll let you in on a secret: The genre hasn't been good since Diablo 2.

 

[Reinhardt]

I'll let you in on a secret: The genre hasn't been good since Diablo 2.

you misspelled diablo

 

[Grunker]

You are retarded because "grinding for runes for hours" is not a thing in the game. At all.

Sure isn't.

There isn't. You get them incidentally as part of your other activity. In fact, it's pretty much impossible to "farm for shards" - the only way to make more shards per hour than someone else is to spend your gold on gambling and decraft the items (not that you really need that kind of thing unless you’re looking for something very rare for a niche build or are doing a big crafting session because you got a bunch of great drops in the span of a short time window after having crafted a lot). So can't (and don't need to) do what you're saying. Anyone with a passing experience of the game will know this, so you're embarassing yourself by saying something that everyone will know is false.

Why you'd lie about this I dunno, I guess you just didn't play enough of the game, made an assumption and instead of just reneging on this point when it became obvious you were dead wrong, you chose to dig the hole deeper.

 

[ArchAngel]

I got my character to lvl 30+ over the weekend (taking it slow) and I am enjoying the game. Campaign so far is completely forgettable, all the time travel stuff just makes it more confusing. 90% time I have no clue what I am doing or why, just moving forward to kill more shit. At least there are no demon butterflies, unicorn levels and demons screaming at me while travelling shit (or Diablo in high heels..).

 

[Grunker]

90% time I have no clue what I am doing or why

I actually tried to follow the story this time around - I've listened to/read all the voiced dialogue etc. I still have less idea what I'm doing or why than in any other aRPG I've ever played even though I've skipped all cutscenes and story segments in those games. It's downright remarkable how inexplicable they've made the campaign and story in this game.

 

[ArchAngel]

90% time I have no clue what I am doing or why

I actually tried to follow the story this time around - I've listened to/read all the voiced dialogue etc. I still have less idea what I'm doing or why than in any other aRPG I've ever played even though I've skipped all cutscenes and story segments in those games. It's downright remarkable how inexplicable they've made the campaign and story in this game.

I was also trying to follow it a bit but at some point I must have clicked next too fast and after that it makes no sense. Now I need to stop immortal emperor because some person told me he might be the cause of Void spreading (that is the 10% I managed to catch). I am trying to find some person and I was following some guy around for reasons. Maybe I am close to getting to this emperor, not sure lol.

 

[Cyberarmy]

Main story takes itself too serious. Also they changed the first part (before the first time travel) and now what happened made even less sense...
And they really didn't use time travel thing as they should, wasted many good oppurtunities here. Bloody Chrone Trigger did this ages ago...


Edit:
I started with a beastmaster, thinking as a barbarian with a sabertooth but it felt kinda week. Even the wolves, the bloody first skill of the class felt much better in the end. So I decided to reroll.
Now playing as a lich with max dots and poison, melting everything. It is a bit fragile with out reaper for but much more fun to play. It'll even be better after I unlock the Death seal skill I guess.

 

[Grunker]

Main story takes itself too serious. Also they changed the first part (before the first time travel) and now what happened made even less sense...
And they really didn't use time travel thing as they should, wasted many good oppurtunities here. Bloody Chrone Trigger did this ages ago...


Edit:
I started with a beastmaster, thinking as a barbarian with a sabertooth but it felt kinda week. Even the wolves, the bloody first skill of the class felt much better in the end. So I decided to reroll.
Now playing as a lich with max dots and poison, melting everything. It is a bit fragile with out reaper for but much more fun to play. It'll even be better after I unlock the Death seal skill I guess.

I don't even understand the beginning? Watched the intro cinematic and read the first few dialogues and just remember being completely miffed at who my character even was and why he was there. Even the "peace talks" made little sense - the intro cinematic was about some gods fighting, and now my Paladin Shaft-lookalike is going to some peace talks? Wut?

From then on, I understood what the Epoch was and that it allowed time travel, but I have no fucking clue what the different time periods constitute, why anything is happening, why my character is even interested in pursuing the diffierent goals of the timelines or why anything is happening in those timelines.

 

[ChildInTime]

If you want a coherent story in an arpg your only option is Dungeon Siege 3.

 

[Grunker]

If you want a coherent story in an arpg your only option is Dungeon Siege 3.

Last Epoch is uniquely incoherent. It's simultaneously the story I've followed the most closely (bar Diablo 2 because that story is actually quite OK), and the one I understand the least. This is including Path of Exile Act 5 through 10 which is extremely incoherent but which I understand better even though I've never read a single line of its dialogue lol.

Don't really give much of a fuck, I'm just... impressed, I guess, at the sheer inexplicability of it all.

 

[ArchAngel]

If you want a coherent story in an arpg your only option is Dungeon Siege 3.

Last Epoch is uniquely incoherent. It's simultaneously the story I've followed the most closely (bar Diablo 2 because that story is actually quite OK), and the one I understand the least. This is including Path of Exile Act 5 through 10 which is extremely incoherent but which I understand better even though I've never read a single line of its dialogue lol.

Don't really give much of a fuck, I'm just... impressed, I guess, at the sheer inexplicability of it all.

That is the state I got myself into after a while of being equally confused :D

 

[Perkel]

Don't really give much of a fuck, I'm just... impressed, I guess, at the sheer inexplicability of it all.

2 gods create universe,
1 of them creates epoch an artifact that can manipulate time.
Soon they create world and world is divided into 4 demigod realms.
1 of those demigods attack another for epoch shards. 2 true gods don't give a fuck.

player gets epoch shard and old keeper uses it because he thinks it is good idea.
HE jumps to separate time and player gets thrown to ruined era.
Player gets to know that immortal empire period is what started ruined era
He goes to that era but he can't kill emperor without supercharing epoch (or some retarded spear ?) with demigod powers, seems like empire is behind void.
Player goes to get 4 demigods boon, winter deer demigod, octopus water god, snake earth demigod.
Snake earth demigod gets corrupted by its avatar and turns out that this avatar betrayed it and it works with power controling void.

Game ends here, you didn't get all boons you need one more from fire bird god. Immoral emperor is still alive and whoever is behind the void is true mastermind.

And I skipped second half of all dialogues etc. because it was so boring.

--------------------

On basic level it is not bad. But the execution of that story, characters involved and everything connected to it is just bad.
Usually basic stories can be good but the execution is what makes good story actually good story.

Somehow i doubt Uwe Boll would make Taxi Driver same way Scorsese did.

 

[mediocrepoet]

If you want a coherent story in an arpg your only option is Dungeon Siege 3.

Last Epoch is uniquely incoherent. It's simultaneously the story I've followed the most closely (bar Diablo 2 because that story is actually quite OK), and the one I understand the least. This is including Path of Exile Act 5 through 10 which is extremely incoherent but which I understand better even though I've never read a single line of its dialogue lol.

Don't really give much of a fuck, I'm just... impressed, I guess, at the sheer inexplicability of it all.

That is the state I got myself into after a while of being equally confused :D

What I think is funny is that from what I've seen of the release version, it's significantly more coherent than it was.

Before you started off walking down a road, seeing some people getting wiped out and getting involved because of ??? reasons. Now you're being attacked by God knows what, and use a time portal to get away. Now you're in Ruined Era and going wtf. You meet a guard that tells you to go talk to a guy and you start killing slimes and shit while being sent on fetch quests from people you don't know for no reason. Your motivation is that you don't know where or when you are, what you're fighting, or who you're talking to, but hey, clicky clicky.

Now you at least have a set up about why you'd get involved in the first place and some of the stuff with Graul or whatever his name is has a bit more set up given his overall arc which I assume is unchanged since EA, just a bit less out of nowhere now.

 

[Hobo Elf]

Having a coherent story is important not necessarily for the narrative itself but because it should give you a sense of setting cohesion. In LE I might as well be going from one unrelated map to another. It doesn't feel like I'm moving through an actual world. Also the epoch gimmick only makes this process worse since you supposedly travel through the same areas in different eras but without distinguishable landmarks it essentially means nothing to you as a player. It just makes the world feel even more detached, or fake.

It's impressive how the devs managed to make the time travel gimmick not only lame but an active deterrent against their game. I think they used Chrono Trigger as part of their inspiration and it's hilarious how badly they missed the mark here.

 

[mediocrepoet]

It's impressive how the devs managed to make the time travel gimmick not only lame but an active deterrent against their game. I think they used Chrono Trigger as part of their inspiration and it's hilarious how badly they missed the mark here.

Yeah, the whole thing is basically edgy Chrono Trigger. Anyway, there are a few cool set pieces. Or at least there were. From what I've seen, I expect they'll probably be the same or better now. I tended to just view it as "Fight your way through a variety of hopefully cool backdrops: The Game". I don't know that it's ever going to be more than that at this point.

 

[Peachcurl]

You see, folks, the reason you don't understand the genius of LE's time travel story is that you need to play as the time travel class for it to make sense.

Void Knight is how this game is meant to be played.









Just kidding.

 

[Peachcurl]

goddamit, that falcon screeching is so annoying

 

[ArchAngel]

OK I fought Immortal Emperor, first Yuria that you met 30 min before seems to double cross you (nobody really cares), then after you beat Emperor she double crosses Emperor and then screams something about using Herod's Lance which I do not remember if I ever got that and then you are in some other area and time without game showing you how you got there.. whoever wrote and designed this campaign was on some heavy drugs.. there is no other possible explanation..

 

[Peachcurl]

It's a double-double-cross, and she falsely assumes that you are a different version of yourself who has the lance. Also, you don't beat the emperor, just his pets.

Time travel. It just works.

 

[Grunker]

I figured it out guys. The story was written by my 8-year-old niece. She's very imaginative, but the structure of her storytelling goes something like this:

a) "...and then this happened"

b) "...and and so then this other person did like this"

c) "...and and and then finally an entirely different guy did this other thing"

Where a, b and c individually might have interesting beats in their own right, but are in every conceivable way unrelated to each other, their only connection being the grammatical structure implied by "...and then...", a sort of implausible and, maybe a downright lying and in the sense that the "and" proposes that the following sentence has a relation to the previous one when in fact, it does not.

So similar to Last Epoch, I refuse to believe anything else than they hired her. This is how we get an intro about Gods having a disagreement and are then immediately on our way as an envoy for "peace talks".