Let's bitch about STEAM! - The Thread!

[Overboard]

conveniences me

 

[AgentBJ09]

But, again, Steam's prominence as a platform is almost entirely do to the prominence of DRM; they do DRM in the most user-friendly way. If Steam was gone, there would just be another, shittier DRM based platform. So I think a far more useful stance to take is "I won't buy it if it has DRM".

I agree with you.

However, my impression has been that many of the "Steam haters" don't really care about the DRM. What really bothers them is having to have this foreign platform installed on their system, disturbing the pristine cleanliness of their desktop.

In short, they feel about Steam exactly the same way DOS users felt about Windows in the early 90s. And you know how that ended.

You would have a point, except that I've found SecuROM DRM in my Steam bought copy of Borderlands GOTY, and found out Postal 3 had Starforce DRM before I chose not to buy it. So, along with having to use a foreign platform to play a game I want to play, with no option not to use it if we wish, there are other DRM schemes that Steam will secretly install, which I didn't realize until someone told me about it.

That puts the distribution monopoly idea in play, with a required to run client system, and then extra DRM on top of the Steam/Steamworks DRM. Useful Steam may be, but if it takes a buyer's right to chose to use it away, and installs extra DRM on top of its own, then it's no longer a service in my view.

 

[hiver]

There is no need to go online to enter offline mode in Steam.

The only online step is necessary to authenticate the purchase when you start the game for the first time.
Or at least it was until they moved saved games to cloud... im not sure can you even save anything without that nowadays.

The biggest problem was one of the last updates of EULA which stated they will not only collect personal info but freely trade it with third parties.

 

[Multi-headed Cow]

Or at least it was until they moved saved games to cloud... im not sure can you even save anything without that nowadays.

Steam Cloud is an optional extra layer. There's even an option to disable it in Steam on a per-game basis. You keep your regular saves, but at the end of the game session if it's enabled it uploads the saves to the Cloud. In the event you lose internet or play offline mode or whatever, the next time you play the game online Steam will say "WAIT A MINUTE YOUR LOCAL SAVES AND CLOUD SAVES DON'T MATCH. WHAT DO?" and you decide if you want to load from your Cloud saves, or your offline saves. If you choose offline then it loads them and uploads them as normal when you're done.

 

[hiver]

Right. Yes.

I forgot because i deinstalled steam and havent used it in a while.
When i used it i only bought a few games for cheap anyway. Not really a big buyer, me.

The only games that interest me nowadays are a few that went or will go through kickstarter and i can get them directly from devs that way, or later, like PE.

Still, that shit about selling or giving data they collect from me to third parties was the last straw for me.
Too much for something i barely used anyway.

 

[Metro]

Ah, finally that crappy thread got merged to where it belongs.

 

[Ulminati]

Should merge it into the steam sale thread and watch MHC explode

 

[AgentBJ09]

Right. Yes.

I forgot because i deinstalled steam and havent used it in a while.
When i used it i only bought a few games for cheap anyway. Not really a big buyer, me.

The only games that interest me nowadays are a few that went or will go through kickstarter and i can get them directly from devs that way, or later, like PE.

Still, that shit about selling or giving data they collect from me to third parties was the last straw for me.
Too much for something i barely used anyway.

If I recall, they have a system set up where game distributors have access to a number of stats through Steam. Time played, units sold and at what prices, percentage of game completed, and ect. Although, unless I'm mistaken, Valve also said they wouldn't be giving user information to third parties unrelated to that data. Any idea what sparked that change?

The most recent EULA update for them that I recall was the one that prevents users from selling games though their service, which came out after the EU court ruling. That I found suspicious, but also not surprising given how much market power they have now. We'll see what happens further down the road though, and if they change that part.

 

[Garm]

There is no need to go online to enter offline mode in Steam.

The only online step is necessary to authenticate the purchase when you start the game for the first time.
Or at least it was until they moved saved games to cloud... im not sure can you even save anything without that nowadays.

The biggest problem was one of the last updates of EULA which stated they will not only collect personal info but freely trade it with third parties.

LOL...yeah because Steam is the only company that collects a users personal info when they're online. Pretty much every single company does the same thing--it's just that some don't feel the need to tell you they do so. So what now, are you going to stop using the internet?

 

[Metro]

Pretty much every single company does the same thing--it's just that some don't feel the need to tell you they do so. So what now, are you going to stop using the internet?

Bingo. This is why Cassidy and company's constant posturing is laughable. They're arguing on an internet message forum. Somehow I doubt posting on RPG Codex is the only thing they do on the internet.

 

[hiver]

Garm ... youre stupid.
Metro, you just agreed with a cheap moron.

for fuck sake THE FUCKING INTERNET DOESN'T SHUT DOWN IF I DONT AGREE WITH SOME FASCISTIC DEMANDS IT MAKES! NOT EVEN FUCKING FACEBOOK DEMANDS I AGREE TO IT GIVING MY DATA TO THIRD PARTIES BY THREATENING IT WILL STOP WORKING FOR ME IF I DONT YOU FUCKING BLEEDING MORONS FUCK OFF!!!

If I recall, they have a system set up where game distributors have access to a number of stats through Steam. Time played, units sold and at what prices, percentage of game completed, and ect. Although, unless I'm mistaken, Valve also said they wouldn't be giving user information to third parties unrelated to that data. Any idea what sparked that change?

The most recent EULA update for them that I recall was the one that prevents users from selling games though their service, which came out after the EU court ruling. That I found suspicious, but also not surprising given how much market power they have now. We'll see what happens further down the road though, and if they change that part.

No idea. Its been some time since i saw that change... ah yes, it was when they reworded the eula to prohibit class action lawsuits. While everyone were raving about that i took a better look at that mandatory agreement pop-up and saw that i have to agree with them taking data and providing that same data to third parties - which then may share it with other "parties".
But it doesnt state what that data may be - at all.

 

[Dexter]

Sans those listed services mostly dealing in their own games, that still leaves the point that buying from other services, or boxed retail, is likely to get you a key for Steam registration, rather than a DRM-free option of install and play. Also, once GOG.com, Kickstarter, and indies are factored in, which market segment is the largest right now in terms of yearly product production quantity? The triple-A industry. And which segment of the market is using Steam the most?

That's why, in relation to the triple-A industry at least, I believe Steam is approaching monopoly status in relation to distribution of games. Until I see an option on all retail disks to install without it, I'll stand by my argument.

You're entirely ignoring Retail, Casual, "Social" (hopefully dieing soon), MMO etc. which are all also "PC Gaming Markets", see here for numbers: http://www.newzoo.com/category/infographics/
As he said above there's also Indie-platforms like Desura with a lot of crap but DRM-less

I recall Disciples 3 and Postal 3, two games I really wanted, had StarForce DRM. Same with the Game of Thrones RPG. The first two Borderlands DLC packs had SecuROM in them.

And Dark Souls, Fable 3, and Section 8 had GFWL requirements. And no, I'm not kidding on Dark Souls. I recall the petition, but it's on the Steam page as a secondary login requirement.

Here's a list with all Third-Party DRM games on Steam: http://steamdrm.flibitijibibo.com/index.php?page=DRM_Lists/The_Big_DRM_List
Here's a list of all DRM-free games on Steam in turn (which you can start entirely without using Steam once downloaded), since Steam doesn't force Devs to include Steamworks: http://af.gog.com/forum/general/list_of_drmfree_games_on_steam/page1?as=1649904300

 

[AgentBJ09]

Garm ... youre stupid.
Metro, you just agreed with a cheap moron.

for fuck sake THE FUCKING INTERNET DOESN'T SHUT DOWN IF I DONT AGREE WITH SOME FASCISTIC DEMANDS IT MAKES! NOT EVEN FUCKING FACEBOOK DEMANDS I AGREE TO IT GIVING MY DATA TO THIRD PARTIES BY THREATENING IT WILL STOP WORKING FOR ME IF I DONT YOU FUCKING BLEEDING MORONS FUCK OFF!!!

That's the impression I'm getting from some of the responses here; that dissent regarding Steam and their practices is something worthy of rage and unwanted insults. Wish I could Brofist your response, but I'll say Thank you instead.

Also, Metro, and anyone else who's getting angry or acting childish. If you don't like my stance on this, and what I've said so far, stop replying to my comments and adding pointless insults to this thread. You're helping no one and contributing nothing, so take a breather and go enjoy Steam if you love it that much. Another person's opinions, and reasonings, for a non-essential product in this world, shouldn't be causing that much rage. And, if it is, maybe you should think about why you're putting so much anger behind defending a product like Steam.

So, if you're getting pissy, take a hike and let the thread continue with some civil discussions until you calm down. A segment of the population disagreeing with data collection and Steam use isn't abnormal. In the meantime, I'll enjoy my Steam-free game library.

If I recall, they have a system set up where game distributors have access to a number of stats through Steam. Time played, units sold and at what prices, percentage of game completed, and ect. Although, unless I'm mistaken, Valve also said they wouldn't be giving user information to third parties unrelated to that data. Any idea what sparked that change?

The most recent EULA update for them that I recall was the one that prevents users from selling games though their service, which came out after the EU court ruling. That I found suspicious, but also not surprising given how much market power they have now. We'll see what happens further down the road though, and if they change that part.

No idea. Its been some time since i saw that change... ah yes, it was when they reworded the eula to prohibit class action lawsuits. While everyone were raving about that i took a better look at that mandatory agreement pop-up and saw that i have to agree with them taking data and providing that same data to third parties - which then may share it with other "parties".
But it doesnt state what that data may be - at all.

Most don't, which has always bothered me. We're in the Information Age, and yet we're not told who gets our data or what it may be in some cases like this.

Also, I recall EU users who refused the update and were locked out of their accounts. Along with all of their games. Not a good sign for such a service like Steam, since the EU forbids companies taking away your right to take a company to court.

 

[Humanity has risen!]

Yeah Metro and others raged at me too when I pointed out that Steam Greenlight was a trojan horse, this doesn't surprise me.

 

[Multi-headed Cow]

for fuck sake THE FUCKING INTERNET DOESN'T SHUT DOWN IF I DONT AGREE WITH SOME FASCISTIC DEMANDS IT MAKES! NOT EVEN FUCKING FACEBOOK DEMANDS I AGREE TO IT GIVING MY DATA TO THIRD PARTIES BY THREATENING IT WILL STOP WORKING FOR ME IF I DONT YOU FUCKING BLEEDING MORONS FUCK OFF!!!

Wish I could Brofist your response, but I'll say Thank you instead.

Bingo. This is why Cassidy and company's constant posturing is laughable. They're arguing on an internet message forum. Somehow I doubt posting on RPG Codex is the only thing they do on the internet.

Also, Metro, and anyone else who's getting angry or acting childish. --- And, if it is, maybe you should think about why you're putting so much anger behind defending a product like Steam.

 

[Metro]

Yeah Metro and others raged at me too when I pointed out that Steam Greenlight was a trojan horse, this doesn't surprise me.

From that statement it's pretty clear that you don't know the definition of: 1) rage; and 2) trojan horse.

Garm ... youre stupid.
Metro, you just agreed with a cheap moron.

for fuck sake THE FUCKING INTERNET DOESN'T SHUT DOWN IF I DONT AGREE WITH SOME FASCISTIC DEMANDS IT MAKES! NOT EVEN FUCKING FACEBOOK DEMANDS I AGREE TO IT GIVING MY DATA TO THIRD PARTIES BY THREATENING IT WILL STOP WORKING FOR ME IF I DONT YOU FUCKING BLEEDING MORONS FUCK OFF!!!

Now that is rage. No one is saying the internet will be shut down if you don't agree to its EULA but the reality is pretty much anyone who engages in some form of internet commerce today (which I daresay includes everyone that posts here) yields as much -- if not more -- personal/marketing info than they do with Steam. It's funny how often the anti-Steam folks portray people here. I'm not a Valve fanboy. They make some mediocre games and Steam is hardly an ideal service. What I am is a pragmatist. I live in the real world where I pay around a thousand dollars a month to repay student loans, another thousand for a mortgage, and a thousands more for utilities, car payments, food, what have you. In the grand scheme of things it really wouldn't matter to me if the $500 or so I've spent on Steam over the last three or four years went poof. Not only is it a fairly trivial amount of money but you could also probably just find the games floating around on a torrent somewhere if, in fact, you wanted to play them again ten years later.

Some of you are laughable. You're like cartoon characters. Stereotypes. The tweenage/twenty-somethings who love to sit and wax philosophic about staggeringly 'important' issues like game ownership and how Valve will slowly 'monopolize' the software industry. Ignoring for a second that it'll probably never happen given the advent of Kickstarter (which covers most of the games people here are interested in playing)... who gives a shit? Get some perspective. You dumbfucks probably sell out on a daily basis through all the other various activities you do as a part of life. Your crusade for gaming rights is fucking sad and laughable. Why does someone like Cassidy who only replays Fallout and ignores modern games give a shit if the latest Shitman Derpalution requires Steamworks? And why does he even argue that when he's probably typing it on his iPad while he downloads some tunes and plans his next trip to the Gap and Starbucks?

Please, carry on, it's good for a laugh. Also, lol Facebook.

 

[Cassidy]

Can't wait to see the usual suspects defending the Steam console a few years after its launch and all the additional decline popamole it brought. Wouldn't be surprised if Steam becomes nothing but a backwater for poorly ported multiplatform releases of Steambox with its own Steambox exclusives like all other consoles.

 

[Metro]

Why do you even care? Other than for the sake of looking like a cool noncomformist on an internet message forum, that is...

 

[Multi-headed Cow]

Why do you even care? Other than for the sake of looking like a cool noncomformist on an internet message forum, that is...

Because without Steam we'd have better games, presumably.

 

[Garm]

Garm ... youre stupid.
Metro, you just agreed with a cheap moron.

for fuck sake THE FUCKING INTERNET DOESN'T SHUT DOWN IF I DONT AGREE WITH SOME FASCISTIC DEMANDS IT MAKES! NOT EVEN FUCKING FACEBOOK DEMANDS I AGREE TO IT GIVING MY DATA TO THIRD PARTIES BY THREATENING IT WILL STOP WORKING FOR ME IF I DONT YOU FUCKING BLEEDING MORONS FUCK OFF!!!

....Wait so in the same breath that you're calling ME a moron...you're citing Facebook as collecting less data than Steam...

 

[Clockwork Knight]

It was all the rage to have circle-jerk arguments about how corrupt and evil Steam was and how it was destroying the gaming industry in 2008.

Ironically I was very vocal on the subject in 2008 because I still had dial-up in 2008.

So? It's not like anything has changed.

For one, the industry isn't in shambles. In fact, it seems healthier than ever

 

[Zewp]

Garm ... youre stupid.
Metro, you just agreed with a cheap moron.

for fuck sake THE FUCKING INTERNET DOESN'T SHUT DOWN IF I DONT AGREE WITH SOME FASCISTIC DEMANDS IT MAKES! NOT EVEN FUCKING FACEBOOK DEMANDS I AGREE TO IT GIVING MY DATA TO THIRD PARTIES BY THREATENING IT WILL STOP WORKING FOR ME IF I DONT YOU FUCKING BLEEDING MORONS FUCK OFF!!!

That's the impression I'm getting from some of the responses here; that dissent regarding Steam and their practices is something worthy of rage and unwanted insults. Wish I could Brofist your response, but I'll say Thank you instead.

Also, Metro, and anyone else who's getting angry or acting childish. If you don't like my stance on this, and what I've said so far, stop replying to my comments and adding pointless insults to this thread. You're helping no one and contributing nothing, so take a breather and go enjoy Steam if you love it that much. Another person's opinions, and reasonings, for a non-essential product in this world, shouldn't be causing that much rage. And, if it is, maybe you should think about why you're putting so much anger behind defending a product like Steam.

So, if you're getting pissy, take a hike and let the thread continue with some civil discussions until you calm down. A segment of the population disagreeing with data collection and Steam use isn't abnormal. In the meantime, I'll enjoy my Steam-free game library.

Troll confirmed. Go troll somewhere else you cur.

Garm ... youre stupid.
Metro, you just agreed with a cheap moron.

for fuck sake THE FUCKING INTERNET DOESN'T SHUT DOWN IF I DONT AGREE WITH SOME FASCISTIC DEMANDS IT MAKES! NOT EVEN FUCKING FACEBOOK DEMANDS I AGREE TO IT GIVING MY DATA TO THIRD PARTIES BY THREATENING IT WILL STOP WORKING FOR ME IF I DONT YOU FUCKING BLEEDING MORONS FUCK OFF!!!

....Wait so in the same breath that you're calling ME a moron...you're citing Facebook as collecting less data than Steam...

Not to mention he seems to think he can disagree with the Facebook EULA and then continue using it. The difference is that Facebook likely doesn't inform him of EULA changes.

 

[hiver]

You fucks are really fucking stupid. Your inability to understand what is being said and written goes beyond ridiculous.

Morons like Garm are the most usual retard shit posters there are on the codex. All that fucking retarded brian wants is to latch on some stupid perceived defect of anyone else so he can get to fell better.
Cant fucking read. Cant fucking understand WORDS:
You fucking idiots.

I can be stealthy as i want on the internet. (relatively speaking) And facebook as an extreme example of user data collecting - does not share that data with thrid parties. Yet. Even though it is trying to.
And it doesnt blackmail anyone into accepting that angle by locking you out of your account And your content.
(im not talking about various apps on facebook - for those you have to confirm you agree with them taking data in order to use them)
If valve only used that data for itself - i wouldnt mind so much. Because - Valve - Half life - good guys YEAH?

So... you see now, i hope - how motherfucking idiotic you all are.

Garm ... youre stupid.
Metro, you just agreed with a cheap moron.

for fuck sake THE FUCKING INTERNET DOESN'T SHUT DOWN IF I DONT AGREE WITH SOME FASCISTIC DEMANDS IT MAKES! NOT EVEN FUCKING FACEBOOK DEMANDS I AGREE TO IT GIVING MY DATA TO THIRD PARTIES BY THREATENING IT WILL STOP WORKING FOR ME IF I DONT YOU FUCKING BLEEDING MORONS FUCK OFF!!!

That's the impression I'm getting from some of the responses here; that dissent regarding Steam and their practices is something worthy of rage and unwanted insults. Wish I could Brofist your response, but I'll say Thank you instead.

Hey, no prob. Nice to see someone capable of understanding some light irony. XD

No idea. Its been some time since i saw that change... ah yes, it was when they reworded the eula to prohibit class action lawsuits. While everyone were raving about that i took a better look at that mandatory agreement pop-up and saw that i have to agree with them taking data and providing that same data to third parties - which then may share it with other "parties".
But it doesnt state what that data may be - at all.

Most don't, which has always bothered me. We're in the Information Age, and yet we're not told who gets our data or what it may be in some cases like this.

Also, I recall EU users who refused the update and were locked out of their accounts. Along with all of their games. Not a good sign for such a service like Steam, since the EU forbids companies taking away your right to take a company to court.

Well... some have said it doesnt lock you out of already bought games.... but that was not my experience. I rejected it and couldnt even go into offline mode to start my games, let alone use steam fully.

And i guess new users simply cannot use steam at all unless they agree.

Wouldnt it be better from Valve to disclose what and how they are collecting and then offer that as a free choice for its users. In order to help Valve and yadda, yadda, yadda? And not give that info to third parties which then can use it in anyway they see fit.
Im sure most people would respond positively to such an arrangement.

Valve and Steam did reap a lot of positivity with their relative openness and fairness... but as they grow they seem to follow the same negative route as any other big corporate entity.

 

[Zewp]

You fucks are really fucking stupid. Your inability to understand what is being said and written goes beyond ridiculous.

Morons like Garm are the most usual retard shit posters there are on the codex. All that fucking retarded brian wants is to latch on some stupid perceived defect of anyone else so he can get to fell better.
Cant fucking read. Cant fucking understand WORDS:
You fucking idiots.

I can be stealthy as i want on the internet. (relatively speaking) And facebook as an extreme example of user data collecting - does not share that data with thrid parties. Yet. Even though it is trying to.
And it doesnt blackmail anyone into accepting that angle by locking you out of your account And your content.
(im not talking about various apps on facebook - for those you have to confirm you agree with them taking data in order to use them)
If valve only used that data for itself - i wouldnt mind so much. Because - Valve - Half life - good guys YEAH?

So... you see now, i hope - how motherfucking idiotic you all are.

Jesus. I'm honestly not sure if you're trolling or really are just this stupid.

Amendments

1. Unless we make a change for legal or administrative reasons, or to correct an inaccurate statement, we will provide you with seven (7) days notice (for example, by posting the change on the Facebook Site Governance Page) and an opportunity to comment on changes to this Statement. You can also visit our Facebook Site Governance Page and "like" the Page to get updates about changes to this Statement.
2. If we make changes to policies referenced in or incorporated by this Statement, we may provide notice on the Site Governance Page.
3. Your continued use of Facebook following changes to our terms constitutes your acceptance of our amended terms.

Unless you keep tabs on that page, Facebook doesn't inform you of changes and your continued use of their service constitutes agreement. The only difference between Steam and Facebook is that Steam actually notified you of the changes and gave you the option to accept or disagree with them right there. If you don't agree with their terms of use, obviously you can't continue to use the Steam service.

 

[hiver]

Well, im quite sure you are that stupid.
And therefore you are literally incapable to understand that someone else does not even talk about - what you think he is talking about.

Look moron... for a third time - the problem is sharing and giving data to third parties, which then can use it as they see fit. mkay? Is that simple enough for your ego driven idiotic brain to understand?
And changing that is a legal matter which facebook is obliged to make public, btw.
- not to mention that any changes to user privacy levels is something that facebook gets constant flak for and that facebook is free. Dosnt charge shit for using it.

furthermore... is it good if Valve and Steam become equal to fucking facebook in regard of user privacy?
And is it then good if its actually worse?

Also this is in facebook data policy that is available to anyone:

While you are allowing us to use the information we receive about you, you always own all of your information. Your trust is important to us, which is why we don't share information we receive about you with others unless we have:

• received your permission;
• given you notice, such as by telling you about it in this policy; or
• removed your name or any other personally identifying information from it.