Let's Play - BGT with a Codex Crew

[Nickless]

They use two entirely different D&D rulesets, it just wouldn't be possible to do without essentially making a new game.

 

[Silverstar]

Is there something like BGT for Icewind dale ?

or a mod that ports IWD 1 to IWD 2 standards ?

I don't think there is any, as they have vastly different game rules and interface. IWD is 2E (with expansions it becomes a somewht 2,5 E) while IWD2 uses 3E rules (mostly) so it is kinda impossible.

Further, the player party in IWD 1 is not the party in IWD 2, story wise the events take place in a few decades later in IWD 2 and there is only one small plot device which ties the story to IWD1's main villain. You can learn about IWD 1 party's adventures and fame from a psychic woman at the start of IWD 2.

Strangely enough, there was mod which let you play BG2 in IWD 2 engine and rules, with all spiffy 3E feats and rules and shit. It was called Ice Wind Gate and it was buggy as hell and was destined to stay beta AFAIK.

I'm kinda starting to dislike the caster 'improvements'. Many mages that I encounter have this undefeatable combo of Globe of Invulnerability + Mirror Image + Prot from Arrows (which stops all arrows in my game) and open up with full-party disabling spells, resulting in at least one death and probably more. This would be fine if I had some way to remove these protections. A low level party does not have access to these (no breach since it is lvl5, dispel magic with a too low caster level to have any effect) and have no option but to die en masse.

Don't install the component that makes protection from missiles blocking magical arrows as well, it does not make sense rules wise. It is a lvl 3 spell, it should not be powerful enough to render the caster invulnerable to all missiles in game world. You can, however install the component which makes all relatively easy to find +1 ammunition to masterwork, hence you will need hard to find +2 ammo to hit those mages.

As for strategies, retreating to a different area is cheesy. Here are a few ideas isntead:

-Cast Spell thrust or Secret Word to take down the Globe of Inv. If they are improved invisible you can not target them, however mods also change Secret Word and the like to be area-effect spells. Once MGoI is down you can dispel their invisibility/ghost armor via Detect Invisible/Illusions spells and hack away easily.

-A thief with %100 Detect Illusions skill is extremely valuable against spell casters. Let the thief detect traps near heavily illusioned enemy and he will dispel his illusions:mirror images are gone, Improved Invisiblity is blown so mage loses AC and to hit bonuses as well as can now be targeted by spells:Also if spell revisions are installed ghost armor is also an illusion which gives huge AC bonus, it is gone too. Also, a trick with detect illusions. Pause the game, have the thief attack the mage and then press detect traps. The thief will both attack and detect illusions at same time.

-BG1 mages do not have Death spell, so summon monster via spell or wand, or animate dead and let the summons attack the mage while your party retreats a few screens away. Hopefully, mage will waste his minute meteors or spells on summons and even summons can get a lucky critical on them.

-Arrows of dispelling:while rare and/or costly and some mods even erase them from stores, give them to Kivan or Coran and they will insta-destroy a mage's buffs and kill him in the next few shots. (which you should switch to normal arrows, or flaming arrows for that extra satisfaction of burning)

-Biggest threat is Confusion (or its bigger, badder brother Chaos, for high lvld mages in BG1) spell, if your party is hit by it in the middle, you will lose control of your party members, they will attack each other and you will have many casualties if not a TPK. So send Minsc or another character with berserk/rage ability and have him/her rage when the spell hits him/her only (your party should be in a safe distance) or potion of clarity or magic protection works too.

-If you have Confusion spell, cast it! It can not be stopped by Minor Globe of Invulnerability, and a confused mage will wander around and occasionaly attack, never using scripts to cast spells. Though mages have good save vs spells, they can still fail their saving throw.

-Keep mirror images and shield spell on characters that can cast them (even bards) cause a minor spell trigger with two magic missiles hurts a ton! (20-50 damage is hardcore at low levels)

-Always have a few charm spells handy, when the enemy mage charms your fighter, immediately charm them right back! Also, charm spells are very useful, if you are fighting a group, use them on fighter types! (unless they have gulped a magic protection potion) Charming a mage in an enemy group is difficult since they have good saves, but if they don't hage MGoI, go for it:You can then use all of their spells to wreak havoc on their allies.

-Potions of magic shielding/protection/invulnerability are very useful, but careful as they can get dispelled. Hence, first send a buffed character so the mage will dispel his useless buffs, retreat the character and send in the one with Magic protection potions in his belly. Viconia is also perfect since she has natural MR.

-Protection from magic scroll:no mage can touch you in BG1. There are quite few to be found and/or purchased in game, and they make even the most dangerous mage battles a walk in the park. I used one on Ice Island, sent my protected fighter in fray and butchered all those crazy high level mages with ease. Otherwise that place can be painfully difficult.

-If you don't have an inqusitor bards with dispel/remove magic are useful since their caster level is high, they can take down mage protections better than mages in your party. Brave, brave Sir Garrick may not be as useless as people think. (he still sucks a lot, though)

-Tiax's ghast summon is overpowered. If it can get a scratch on a mage, the said mage will most likely fail his saving throw (mages have bad save vs death stuff) and will be paralysed which equals death. Mods also put Tiax to Beregost so you can get him earlier.

-Some tougher mages will have Fire Shields on. Do not try to melee them unless you have total immunity to the fire/cold damage it deals. Use missile weapons until fire shield is down.

-Insect Plague spell totally rips mages apart, distrupting their spell casting, eating through their mirror images, stoneskins, and damaging them. Once you can cast this spell BG1 mages are super easy. (ie:if your PC is druid, or you have Faldorn, or if Jaheira is really high level)

 

[JrK]

Yes I've played BGII non-stop for years so I know what counters all that. I do not have access to most of the above because it is higher than my party level. I also did not happen to have a full mage so no spell thrust and other spells either. See that is the problem, either you have the "hard counter" solutions or you don't. If you happen to not have any, you are fucked.

Also, I did have a hard time at the bandit camp. I decided to infiltrate the bandits, and assassinate the guys in the tent. The game then summons every bandit outside waiting for you. Even my tank with lowest AC possible keeps getting hit because of the awful huge number of enemies. Let alone when they (smart-script) target my squishies.

I'm only partly complaining, if the game uses questionable methods, then I feel free to cheese my way through in return. And running away from a mage only to return later before he has had a chance to reset spells is a valid tactic in my opinion, it is just not handled well within the game.

 

[Silverstar]

Also, I did have a hard time at the bandit camp. I decided to infiltrate the bandits, and assassinate the guys in the tent. The game then summons every bandit outside waiting for you. Even my tank with lowest AC possible keeps getting hit because of the awful huge number of enemies. Let alone when they (smart-script) target my squishies.

Yeah bandit camp is very difficult as when your presence is known or your cover is blown, all bandits in the area are alerted thanks to their improved scripts and zoom in to your party, raining you with arrows, which is more realistic and expected from a frikkin bandit camp.

Sleep spell is a must-have as oldmanpaco used in his walkthrough, to keep the mobs down, also throw potions of explosions or oil of fiery burnings to quickly whittle the enemy numbers down. Web spell can be put to great use too, to trap the archer mobs. If you can charm Taugozs 'Tenhammer' he will be excellent cannon fodder for mobs, killing his own soldiers.

Squishy mages of your party should be protected by potions of defense, shield, armor and barkskin spells, plus blur and/or mirror images or they die in seconds. If you can't protect a mage at all, make him gulp a potion of invisibility to save his skin, that's what I did with Imoen (freshly dualed) when she was down to 2 HP.

Some encounters may be a little unbalanced, I agree. Game has many open areas for more xp and level ups before challenging tough fights. If you go challenge the lich in the inn in BG2 early in the game you are pretty much screwed. Same if you try to fight Kahrk the mightiest ogre mage in BG1 when you are still level 3 or so.

 

[oldmanpaco]

I had 2-3 TPK at the bandit camp before we miraculously made it through without anyone dying the last time.

Also confusion/chaos sucks huge juicy monkey balls in BG1. By far the most difficult spells to deal with.

 

[taplonaplo]

I've seen prot from magic cast on enemy mage in a video somewhere. Now that was pretty fukin devious.

 

[JrK]

Sleep spell is a must-have as oldmanpaco used in his walkthrough, to keep the mobs down, also throw potions of explosions or oil of fiery burnings to quickly whittle the enemy numbers down. Web spell can be put to great use too, to trap the archer mobs. If you can charm Taugozs 'Tenhammer' he will be excellent cannon fodder for mobs, killing his own soldiers.

Except that my casters (even the ones with uber AC) couldn't cast anything because they were being peppered by the horde. Not that I minded that part, that was actually well done. Had to form a battle plan and all that. No what bothers me is the binary battles with mages. But I guess I'll just survive them with any way I can get my hands on until I get access to other options.

BTW, I did beat Improved Ilyich of the old Weimer Tactics back in the day, now that was some hard shit.

 

[waywardOne]

i'm modding my way through BG1 & 2. the SCS/SCSII author originally just wanted to "fix" the AI and let them target properly. now he simply cheats (such as sirines miraculously knowing which PC has the Helm of Charm Protection) to go along with the already existing asinine targeting heirarchy.

 

[oldmanpaco]

i'm modding my way through BG1 & 2. the SCS/SCSII author originally just wanted to "fix" the AI and let them target properly. now he simply cheats (such as sirines miraculously knowing which PC has the Helm of Charm Protection) to go along with the already existing asinine targeting heirarchy.

Just don't install the component that allows monsters to detect magic items.

 

[waywardOne]

Just don't install the component that allows monsters to detect magic items.

the log and my preferences tell me i didn't, and even if i had, it's still the poorest implementation possible.

xyx of TeamBG started the whole AI coding extravaganza with beholders -- making them the legit killers they are in p&p. part of that was adaptability where, after two or three rounds of witnessing no effect from its attacks versus a particular PC, the beholder would "learn" and not target that PC again. complicated coding because it requires extra timers and the setting of LOCAL variables on individual PCs.

what SCS/2 does is just skip all the initial "oh hey my charm/petrify/stun attacks aren't working against Soandso i better change targets" and just outright eliminates immune/resistant PCs from the list of viable targets straight from the start. i can understand an intelligent opponent like a vampire not trying to charm an elf, or a low level mage not targeting a drow, but there's no excuse for a basilisk targeting the furthest PC he can see just because that's the one that didn't get Prot from Petri cast on him.

 

[Grunker]

Just don't install the component that allows monsters to detect magic items.

the log and my preferences tell me i didn't, and even if i had, it's still the poorest implementation possible.

xyx of TeamBG started the whole AI coding extravaganza with beholders -- making them the legit killers they are in p&p. part of that was adaptability where, after two or three rounds of witnessing no effect from its attacks versus a particular PC, the beholder would "learn" and not target that PC again. complicated coding because it requires extra timers and the setting of LOCAL variables on individual PCs.

what SCS/2 does is just skip all the initial "oh hey my charm/petrify/stun attacks aren't working against Soandso i better change targets" and just outright eliminates immune/resistant PCs from the list of viable targets straight from the start. i can understand an intelligent opponent like a vampire not trying to charm an elf, or a low level mage not targeting a drow, but there's no excuse for a basilisk targeting the furthest PC he can see just because that's the one that didn't get Prot from Petri cast on him.

You utilize the same mechanic against the monsters. You can quickload and not target the monster immune to your spells or effects.

The point of SCS is not only, not even perhaps, to make the monsters "smart", but to enable them to use the same tactics you do. In lieu of this, it is absolutely neccesary for them to understand which characters to target.

Your Helm of Protection Against Charm thus becomes a "the beholder will target other characters" instead of "the beholder will waste its turn and abilities on this character."

 

[Silverstar]

I just beat the bandit camp. I have done Secrets of Bonehill quests and had a Cloudkill wand. Hordes of low levels bandits slain by ease never seen before. We were able to kill Tazok for Kivan too.

BTW, I did beat Improved Ilyich of the old Weimer Tactics back in the day, now that was some hard shit.

That's my favourite stuff! Congrats on beating the ugly little fuckers, they require some serious strategy/tactic and lotsa luck to boot!

oldmanpaco wrote:
Just don't install the component that allows monsters to detect magic items.


the log and my preferences tell me i didn't, and even if i had, it's still the poorest implementation possible.

Might be Smarter Sirines component that makes them ignore the character with anti-charm stuff.

Anyways, I am so looking for an update too. And, do you think you can challange Tactic's Ilych at Irenicus's Dungeon? That would be an amazing feat to see via screen shots!

 

[hoverdog]

this thread needs more paco, as in updates

 

[MicoSelva]

this thread needs more paco, as in updates

 

[chzr]

this thread needs more paco, as in updates

 

[madbringer]

I did the Big World install and right after i leave Candlekeep, kill a black bear and rest, some MOTHERFUCKING MOTHERFUCKER ninjas me, says something about harvesting my spleen and stabs me to death. What in the fuck.

Anyway, do go on with the lp, good sir.

 

[Silverstar]

I did the Big World install and right after i leave Candlekeep, kill a black bear and rest, some MOTHERFUCKING MOTHERFUCKER ninjas me, says something about harvesting my spleen and stabs me to death. What in the fuck.

That is Wild Mage Additions mod. That is a high lvl wild mage after your spleen and you need to run away from him at lvl 1, never wade in to melee as he has Spellweaver kit and is very good at dual wielding +2 daggers. He will stab your spleen to death in a second. Just run and try to avoid his crazy spells and hope for an unlucky wild surge on his part. Then you can loot his spell book, if you are a wild mage you can learn some cool and fun new wild magic spells. (very nice spell selection!)

Optionally, I managed to kill him but you need Spell Revisions mod for this, it makes Grease spell causing enemies drop down and fall uncouncious for a round upon a failed save vs breath. I spammed Grease, he fell, now we auto-hitted him, my pseudo dragon clawed and caused him uncouncious again, and me and Immy pelted him to death with arrows and darts:and gained 19K XP and two +2 daggers at level 1. (technically we were no longer lvl 1 thanks to huge xp boost) Please note that this guy was never meant to be beaten by a level 1 party, but Spell Revisions Grease spell enables you to kick his pink ass.

 

[MicoSelva]

Woe, someone had really good idea with a mod like that. Yeah...

Also:

Anyway, do go on with the lp, good sir.

 

[oldmanpaco]

Since it seems I have been exiled form the Tits thread I decided to actually rebuild my BG2 install. Did it manually this time (while watching the Yankees choke) with a few quests but mostly strategic/challenge /tweak upgrades.

Three questions:
1) Should I take Imoen with me after Spellhold? She is sort of central to the story but not really necessary. I ask this because it will change the makeup of my party before I go.
2) Do you want me to post my new WieDU log. Spoilers would be in there.
3) How do you feel about Stronghold quests? I personally like doing them so unless everyone says not to I will probably do them all. And yes I lowed the xp from quests by 50% and kills by 25%. Gold rewards were also lowered by a similar amount.

 

[MicoSelva]

#1: Dump the bitch.
#2: Don't care, don't read the logs anyway.
#3: The warrior's stronghold quest line was kinda dull, for me at least, but feel free to do whichever quests You feel like doing.

Looking forward to the update.

 

[taplonaplo]

1, please no imoen, her constant whining is fuckin annoying

2, meh, got my own setup so /care

3, again /care, i found the ones i had to do rather boring

 

[Gondolin]

1 - Dump Imoen right from the start!

2 - Not interested.

3 - Do them.

 

[dr. one]

2) yes, i´m certainly interested + some may offer a suggestion or two in case you´ve installed something potentially, ehm, dangerous
3) do as you wish, some are rather dull though. mage stronghold may be quite useful in SCS environment and i think the bard stronghold is cool, though i may be in minority on this.

 

[hoverdog]

1) fuck this useless brat
2) couldnt care less
3) as you like, never seen cleric's or ranger's strongholds

 

[JrK]

1. As we use Codex chars... Dump Imoen. Or let her be killed intentionally and make up all sorts of fourth wall breaking dialogs between party members referencing her miraculous revivals.
2. Sure.
3. You are a berserker right? Aren't those quests kinda short and insignificant? In that case just do them while doing more important stuff.