In Progress Let's Play: Fallen Gods

[lightbane]

@Hag Thanks! That event (in its various permutations) in general has something I couldn't avoid, which is a recursive option (ask about what tokens he likes); worse yet, it has an entirely uninteractive node (the one between getting past whoever the door-guard is and getting to meet Fraener). The combo of those things bothers me, but we couldn't figure out how to avoid it (too much info to do all in one node). As a practical matter, whatever option replaced "doomed strike" would need to be something non-recursive. But anyway, I like having the option there -- if the player can get within striking distance of the Ormfolk's foremost foe, then even a doomed attack has to be something you can try, I'd think.

What about a compromise: If you know the weakness bit, you can indeed strike down the bad guy... But you do not survive his followers' wrath. That way you don't need another enemy to code, the player doesn't win but doesn't fully lose, and so on.

 

[MRY]

That was the way I had conceived of the option. The question is whether it would be reasonable not to have a custom ending slide for such an outcome. If we need an ending slide it’s a bit of a hassle, as the artist who does them has a lot on his plate overall and is very meticulous.

 

[Darth Roxor]

To me having no chance to win the 'doomed' strike is a good thing and anything otherwise would just be moderntarded design where the player has to be special and able to win everything. You're in the seat of power of the dragon demigod who's got it all covered in magic roons against all your magic tricks, and so many soldiers that you have to call an army to face them. But ye gods, the one thing he didn't think about was someone just walzing in through the front door and fatally clubbing him over the head with a baseball bat. Give me a break.

 

[Malakal]

To me having no chance to win the 'doomed' strike is a good thing and anything otherwise would just be moderntarded design where the player has to be special and able to win everything. You're in the seat of power of the dragon demigod who's got it all covered in magic roons against all your magic tricks, and so many soldiers that you have to call an army to face them. But ye gods, the one thing he didn't think about was someone just walzing in through the front door and fatally clubbing him over the head with a baseball bat. Give me a break.

1. Not a normal guy, demigod.
2. Not normal sword, legendary weapons.
3. No one says it has to be easy it can be challenging but a guy dispatching trolls left and right and sufficiently awesome should have a CHANCE at victory.

But ultimately it boils down to me hating 'you lose' buttons.

Also dislike the tips you get from hovering over buttons, those should probably be locked to skills/items/stats instead.

 

[Darth Roxor]

You only get hoverover tips if you start with Foresight. Unless you mean highlights denoting the type and difficulty of a check behind an option, but that doesn't bother me at all.

 

[Brancaleone]

Does the weak spot apply to both his dragon form and his humanoid form?
What if the dragon's weak spot is on the tail?
What if his pressure points in his human form are reverted a la Souther from Hokuto no Ken?
What if you actually are not left-handed?
What if he is not left-handed either?
Etc. etc.

 

[Malakal]

You only get hoverover tips if you start with Foresight. Unless you mean highlights denoting the type and difficulty of a check behind an option, but that doesn't bother me at all.

Yea the highlights, seems very meta to me. Its common nowadays and different from old school where everything was hidden, probably better for most players, but still, meta-gamey.

 

[MRY]

The feedback we got was that without some indication of how hard a check would be, players felt like the choices were a bit random rather than tactical. I was quite resistant initially but I’m persuaded they add a lot, including by increasing the rage when you roll terribly on an easy check.

 

[Damned Registrations]

I don't see anything wrong with knowing the type of skill being used and relative difficulty of a challenge in most cases. It's kind of dumb to fail a challenge because you think your character will be awesome at it but the devs decided that it tests toughness instead of strength or something. Some mystery challenges would be fine, particularly the level of difficulty. It's one thing to know how hard it will be to lift a rock or catch a fleeing thief; it's another to know if you can win a footrace with a stranger before it starts or how easily you can diplomacy your way past some wights. I liked the interaction with the witch where it wasn't clear if the vow you made her take meant anything to her or not.

 

[Darth Roxor]

Rude!

Spoiler

Welcome. In this update, we'll be pressing our luck to the very limits of luckerfagdom.

First, we cross the river to Kolstad.

To catch a boat to Eastdock.

If only they slipped faster than 3 days

At least there are no komplikashuns along the way.

It will take 6 days to get from here to Sverdgate. A hell of a lot of time.

A detour to Skard will take 2. This means Skard is no longer within our reach with the time we have left.

I hunt to get our food back to a comfortable level so we don't starve inside the cave. This should keep us going to the end of the game.

13 days. A lucky number!

ONWARD!

TO GLORY!

The sign says:

Spoiler

dickbutt

It'll take a day and require a wits check to read the roons, but I decide to try it. Better spend a day than get exploded by jihadi IEDs

ringa dinga ding baby

~RETROLUXIA~

Guess who's laughing now, asshole.

~/RETROLUXIA~

This... was most unfortunate. All we can do is press on.

and the results are absolutely predictable

WELL

Seeing as we are on the edge of time, I decide to adopt an all-or-nothing approach to this cave from now on and throw caution completely to the wind. We'll press on, and we'll win, or we'll run the fuck away when coming upon some fatal obstacle and go to the jarl. There's simply no time left to get out (1 day) and rest to heal (another day).

GO DEEPER!

oy vey

With our battered warband, I was *very seriously* considering just paying him the skinbound book to fuck off. But I figured maybe we can still win with alpha strike and assorted shit, and we are not only strapped for time - we are also in need of souls for the final battle.

Many of the actions in this update you'll probably think reckless, but it will all make sense once we march off against Fraener.

Naturally, the wizard is not alone and summons some angry wraiths to help.

There will be no fleeing from this fight.

And retreating is blocked to boot.

Toll Knells is generally a brutal fucking event. I've had it turn over many runs that were successful up to its point.

Our alpha strike is enough to kill the wizard, which is great. Unfortunately wizards have an ability to slurp on their thralls, so he doesn't quite die but regains full hp from one of the shade huskarls.

This is going to be rough. I figure the best first move is to quickly dispose of the wolf with Ullin's inherent anti-wolf buff.

Ullin will kill the wolf on the next turn, meanwhile the wizard jumps to Karr, which is bad, I was hoping for him to attack the god so we could make use of our wizard lore damage buff.

The god is going to have to engage the remaining shade huskarl, and that is surely going to end up superbad, because the god is a wimp, and the huskarl has an attack buff from the wizard.

The wolf fetch dies.

Next turn I set Ullin on the wizard. Karr is not going to survive this, but maybe the god will hold out for long enough not to get whacked by the shade.

So long, Karr.

Unfortunately the god is unable to survive against the shade. Fuck.

But Ullin stabs the wizard to make him slurp on the shade. And since the shade was very badly hurt, the wizard regains only a sliver of HP.

Which lets Ullin finish the job and stab the wizard dead for good before he can even get up.

Heh, a glorious victory that was totally worth it just to rid the world of this foul wizard.

I use HH to get the god back up to speed, then we GO DEEPER.

Well. We could maybe win this if we engaged. But Ullin would not survive it for sure.

I'm feeling lucky, so I try to drive them off. It's a medium threats check aided by Bearleather.

I can't believe this fucking worked

SCATTER, SHEEP!

GO DERPER!

SHARDS OF TROLLS MOST FOUL

This would be a bad encounter under other circumstances, but we have a secret weapon. "Drive them off" highlights Firebrand, which as we know, is a dedicated anti-troll measure.

Like all things black, the trollshards fear HOLY LIGHT. They only backed away from our torch, but Firebrand scares them deeper into the earth.

AND SPEAKING OF DEEPER!

OOOOoooooooof.

This is not a fight we can possibly win. And this time they're too strong to even burn with our shitty 2 souls.

The only choice is to hope to drive them off, and it's a hard threats check. If a fight breaks out, we run the fuck away and not speak of this cave again.

Holy shit!

GAZE IN THE FACE OF FEAR

One more event left, and we know what it is.

The Lur stirs men's hearts, and it seems it stirred this troll too.

With Karr out and Ullin half-dead, killing the troll is no longer on the table, and we haven't come here just to leave, so I opt to listen to the troll's song. It will be a medium HP check for the god.

DAS LORE

Not bad. At this point we're hardly going to make any use from the bonus might, but listening to the rumbling also blesses the god, which is fantastic for us. Blessing is the positive version of curse, so it benefits all your rolls in some minor way. It's exactly the thing we wanted to have for the final battle against Fraener.

And the dungeon pinata yields us a modest haul of 4 souls. As you will see, this is also the perfect outcome.

12 days left, 5 to reach Sverdgate.

Looking around the place to see if we can do something still.

We could take a detour to this shitposting contest, but it would take us too many days. As you will find out soon, we'll want to have a few spare.

In the end, I decide to just go straight to Sverdgate. Marching through the swamp I'm clenching my buttocks to the point of ultimate strength so that we don't get ambushed, because an ambush now would surely mean a dead Ullin, and Ullin as a woodsman leads us through swamps faster than we'd move through them otherwise.

Oh yeah, we spotted this shit ages ago and it's right in the way.

We should feast on these sweet billberries.

Sure, why not?

Nothing much that free food is gonna do us now, but at least we didn't choke on it.

We can still take a little detour to this runestone to see if it has anything of interest.

It does not. In hindsight it was dumb to come here, but oh well.

From the runestone we spot a cairn with something shiny. Too bad it's opposite where we're heading.

One day...

ALMOST THERE

PLZ NO RANDOM ENCOUNTERS

Wow, we actually made it unharmed.

Brace yourselves, men. For next time... WE FINISH THE FIGHT!

 

[Malakal]

You rat fuck withholding content by stretching the troll arc.

Also don't we actually need actual party to beat the archenemy? Like dudes that can fight? Don't tell me there won't be epic final fight.

 

[Darth Roxor]

Also don't we actually need actual party to beat the archenemy?

it's fine i still have enough gold to hire a skald

 

[Trash Player]

Is berserk available in this version? They are supposed to a rare recruit like witch from my understanding but so far, they didn't even show up as enemies.

 

[Dualnames]

Is berserk available in this version? They are supposed to a rare recruit like witch from my understanding but so far, they didn't even show up as enemies.

Yeah, it's quite a common unity in my experience with the game [not a too fairly one], my feel is for every 4-5 fighters i get, I get a berserk.

 

[Jaedar]

Also don't we actually need actual party to beat the archenemy?

it's fine i still have enough gold to hire a skald

Good. Always prioritize having a skald to sing the song of the battle, this is more important than winning the battle.

 

[Darth Roxor]

Is berserk available in this version? They are supposed to a rare recruit like witch from my understanding but so far, they didn't even show up as enemies.

There was one in the first cave of this playthrough, but he didn't have much screen time:

It is true however that we're very unlucky with the event draws for zerks and witches in this LP as a whole.

 

[Lord of Riva]

I just stumbled on this thread and LP pretty stellar work Roxor, can't wait for the third run to finish.

I have mixed feelings about the game, it looks great on many levels and I think that I would enjoy it for a playthrough or two, however in three LP we already have loads of repeating content and the variance in gameplay looks very samey even if you have tried to diverge every time. I feel like I have seen now, most what this game has to offer and I would have been pretty annoyed if I had the same experience while playing it myself.

The different incarnations of Fraener are a pretty cool touch, though.

 

[Darth Roxor]

CURSE YOU FRAENER

Spoiler

As we near the end, we can take stock of what we've achieved.

We've explored almost the entirety of the map, leaving behind only one cave, the big swamp, one barrow and a few settlements unvisited. That's pretty good considering we spent half of the three months looping around the northwest part of the island.

Since the start of his adventures, the Hardmode CHAD has lost one HP then regained it, lost all his edjumaficashun to the barrow wizard, won 1 bonus wits and 1 bonus might, and learned the lore of wizards and trolls. But even with all his gear and deeds, he's still kind of a wimp.

I think it's fair to say that Ullin has carried us through this game. Without him we'd be crawling through the mud and getting our ass kicked at every turn. The Wightweave and Woodbane we gave him probably helped as well.

I do the final preparations before we seek an audience with the jarl.

First I get some rest because our BROS should look healthy on the final battle pics!

Much better.

Then I hit the barracks. We require more requisition to recruit the space marines, but we have enough for a skald.

Follow me, Sven, we have a dragon to kill

Of course you can't just waltz into the jarl's castle and commission his army, because first he has to be persuaded that you're the chosen one. It's going to be a words check as shown by Sven's quip. Why it doesn't highlight wits is anyone's guess.

Look on my works, ye mighty...

... and despair!

There's no sense waiting any longer. That's why we'll twiddle our thumbs for five days while the barracks produce units.

meh

The army pop cap is reached and the jarl has no resources left to increase it.

The last day dawns. We march to meet our wicked foe.

We are teleported to the vicinity of Fraener's castle. Thus begins the battle of Hammarfast.

I would rather hunt beasts than men.

Let your deeds and my words be worthy of this day.

We can ready the men ourselves, which will take a medium wits check, or we can have the screaming eagle do the recon. I opt for the latter.

oof

TO BATTLE, BLOOD RAVENS!

Well, this can't be good

Trash Player, you requested berserks, so here's a band of six for you!

Fortunately, we have exactly enough souls to handwave them away with a nuclear strike. Needless to say, we'd be completely facerolled in actual combat.

But merely burning away the zerks is not enough to proceed, because the jarl's useless army was routed. Fortunately, we have more tricks up our sleeve in the form of the Fording Stone. Thanks, trollslayer bro.

Anytime, fren.

Now that's a roight propa satanic dragon. Fraener's final form always reminds me of this album cover:

Soulfire scorched his wings, but cannot hurt his hide.

There is only one option, and that is to boldly go where no man or god has gone before. Rushing forward will take a medium god speed check.

RUBBER SHOES IN MOTION

S T R I K E THE MOTHERFUCKING SERPENT GOD

WE STRIKE WITH TRUE METAL OF STEEL!

AS WAS FORETOLD IN THE ANCIENT SCROLLS

Ciao, bella

"CHAD-GOD! CHAD-GOD! CHAD-GOD!" chant the jarl's men.

YEAH I'M SURE YOU KICKED ME OUT OF SKYHALLA WITH THIS BIG PLAN IN MIND, ASSHOLE

Well men, against all odds and despite going through an uphill struggle from the start, we've managed to achieve what I think is the hardest victory in this game, and all that also while on hard difficulty. Have a cigar, you've earned it.

 

[ERYFKRAD]

Chaddest of Gods was he,
That mark'd himself Fraener's bane,
Great glory and fortune his be,
Until we shall meet again.

 

[lightbane]

What no final boss battle but rather a cutscene win or loss against ChadLoki? Disappoint.
Also, I like offbrand Odin's justification that was totally not Improvised.

 

[Malakal]

Nice, kinda funny that the weakest god won the biggest ending.

 

[Darth Roxor]

What no final boss battle but rather a cutscene win or loss against ChadLoki? Disappoint.
Also, I like offbrand Odin's justification that was totally not Improvised.

To get the actual big boss battle you have to go after Amarok.

 

[Malakal]

What no final boss battle but rather a cutscene win or loss against ChadLoki? Disappoint.
Also, I like offbrand Odin's justification that was totally not Improvised.

To get the actual big boss battle you have to go after Amarok.

Oh theres a bigger boss? Nice.

I just stumbled on this thread and LP pretty stellar work Roxor, can't wait for the third run to finish.

I have mixed feelings about the game, it looks great on many levels and I think that I would enjoy it for a playthrough or two, however in three LP we already have loads of repeating content and the variance in gameplay looks very samey even if you have tried to diverge every time. I feel like I have seen now, most what this game has to offer and I would have been pretty annoyed if I had the same experience while playing it myself.

The different incarnations of Fraener are a pretty cool touch, though.

See there is more content for sure, we also have the evil goddess and I bet other paths from events.

Ultimately yes, the game will repeat events, for me its like FTL kind of roguelike. Of course more content is always good but we need to limit our expectations since its not totally RNG content...

 

[Darth Roxor]

Oh theres a bigger boss? Nice.

there's always a bigger fish

i might do another playthrough in the future if i feel like it, right now we've only achieved 2 out of 6 possible wins, though i've run out of incarnation ideas

also at this rate if the fuckers don't hurry up i'll wind up showing all the endings in this thread before the game is even released

 

[MRY]

I just stumbled on this thread and LP pretty stellar work Roxor, can't wait for the third run to finish.

I have mixed feelings about the game, it looks great on many levels and I think that I would enjoy it for a playthrough or two, however in three LP we already have loads of repeating content and the variance in gameplay looks very samey even if you have tried to diverge every time. I feel like I have seen now, most what this game has to offer and I would have been pretty annoyed if I had the same experience while playing it myself.

The different incarnations of Fraener are a pretty cool touch, though.

Totally legit concern, and I have no particular way to gauge whether it's "yes, some players will have that negative experience" or "yes, this is going to be universally disappointing." The one answer I know I can't give is, "No, there's so much content, and such varied gameplay, no one will become bored." I myself enjoy playing it even with ~300 hours on Steam and probably ~300 hours before we started using Steam for our testing builds. But I'm biased... in both directions, as I'm a pretty harsh critic of games I work on (since it's my job to fault-find and fault-fix where I can) but I also design games according to my own predilections.

For the first 10 runs on so, I'd guess, you are likely to regularly see new events. One reason you're seeing so much overlap is that Roxor is good enough at the game to get all the way to the end every time. Another is just dumb luck. But given the number of events placed every run, and the total event pool, there's always going to be overlap.

I think as a reader rather than a player, you get less sense of the extent of choice / differentiation within events; even after all these runs, I still sometimes come across options or outcomes I've never gotten before. But also, the game just starts to shift away from something like a narrative RPG structure and more into something like Freecell, where you are trying to figure out a solution to the layout of the board. The fun I have in runs is often more along the lines of "oh man, I got such-and-such follower to such an absurd power level" or "I managed to win in only 30 days!" rather than the novelty of an encounter.

But again, I have no way of knowing whether a normal player will enjoy it over the long run (or even the short run!).

What no final boss battle but rather a cutscene win or loss against ChadLoki? Disappoint.
Also, I like offbrand Odin's justification that was totally not Improvised.

Each of the victory paths is supposed to have a somewhat different shape to it; as Roxor notes, Amarok is the boss battle path, Fraener is the "everything you did along the way comes together in a text adventure" path. The others are resource driven.

Also, I always thought of Orm as more a Loki who managed to become the All-Father!

Incidentally, it's too bad we don't have that ending slide done yet. It's a really great sketch and I think it'll be a great slide.

Oh theres a bigger boss? Nice.

Not a bigger boss -- Fraener is the "foremost foe" of the Ormfolk -- but the biggest you can fight in the combat engine.

Incidentally, part of the reason for not having both as combat bosses (other than the costs of another huge animated sprite) is that FG's combat is pretty simple, and ultimately there wouldn't have been enough of a way to make Fraener radically different from fighting a wurm.

Ultimately yes, the game will repeat events, for me its like FTL kind of roguelike. Of course more content is always good but we need to limit our expectations since its not totally RNG content...

Let me limit your expectations yet further, my friend! FTL had at its core an incredibly tight, clever real-time combat system designed the create emergent Star Trek catastrophes. FG doesn't have anything like that at its core, so it's more vulnerable to this repeated-content problem than FTL is. But I think FG events are way more robust and complex than FTL events... which may or may not be enough to save it.

All along my goal was to make something that combined Barbarian Prince, Lone Wolf, and Strange Adventures in Infinity Space/Weird Worlds. (As it turned out, something like that must have been the goal with FTL, too, but when FG started (as "Star Captain"), FTL didn't exist.) I think it's largely achieved that goal, but the question remains whether those ingredients at these ratios cohere as a computer game. Lone Wolf and Barbarian Prince felt deep and immersive before narrative cRPGs existed, and SAIS/WW were fun as a 15-minute coffee-break games that hinted at narrative but didn't bog down with it. I feel we've succeeded in making the game I envisioned, so if the game falls short, it's because my vision fell short -- the team delivered better art, music, polish, etc. than I dreamed at the outset.