List of WASD-like control 3D RPG games (single player)

[cesm23]

Added "The Last Remnant" to the list, i just found it on gamespot and youtube and it has keyboard control and it's 3d.

 

[dextermorgan]

Vampire The Masquerade Bloodlines

 

[cesm23]

hum... i see i forgot to change the name to "series" i will fix that so that all games from the same series are in a single line.

 

[Gay-Lussac]

This topic is WEIRD! Coz

 

[Double Ogre]

hum... i see i forgot to change the name to "series" i will fix that so that all games from the same series are in a single line.

V:tM isn't a series, it's a PnP setting. Redemption and Bloodlines are very different games and have nothing in common, besides the clans and disciplines' names. Redemption is a pseudo-isometric point-and-click action RPG, similar to Diablo, while Bloodlines is a first-person action RPG, similar to Fallout 3.

 

[cesm23]

hum... i see i forgot to change the name to "series" i will fix that so that all games from the same series are in a single line.

V:tM isn't a series, it's a PnP setting. Redemption and Bloodlines are very different games and have nothing in common, besides the clans and disciplines' names. Redemption is a pseudo-isometric point-and-click action RPG, similar to Diablo, while Bloodlines is a first-person action RPG, similar to Fallout 3.

Jeez redemption is like thiat?? Well that one can't be on the list then... Anyways keep in mind that most of these games i never played so rectifications like this are always welcome to keep the list clean and without mistakes.

 

[dextermorgan]

Bloodlines is a first-person action RPG, similar to Fallout 3.

Travesty. You're actually comparing Shitout 3 with Bloodlines?

 

[Double Ogre]

Bloodlines is a first-person action RPG, similar to Fallout 3.

Travesty. You're actually comparing Shitout 3 with Bloodlines?

Give a better example. And mind you, I'm not talking about the quality of the content, but the definition of the subgenre. They're pretty similar in this regard, except Bloodlines isn't sandbox.

 

[dextermorgan]

That's akin to saying Salvador Dali was a man with a funny mustache, just like Hitler.

Ok, maybe not quite but still...

And if F3 is Action-RPG then Bloodlines is Action-RPG. Except for that endless sewer.

But yeah, it's hard to find an appropriate parallel.

Also:

And

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[Clockwork Knight]

It wouldn't make much sense for Moira to be all hot and clean, while that's basically Jeanette's job (plus she's a vampire)...unfair comparison

 

[VentilatorOfDoom]

Thaumaturgy sucks in Bloodlines tbh, that was a thing (all the Disciplines) that was way better in Redemption. You found all kinds of books and learned a lot of Disciplines... in that way you had really a lot of options to customize your char. Casterlike: Path of Blood, the Lure of Flames, Bloodrituals or Melee Monster with Feral Claws, Potence, Fortitude, Celerity. The whole Disciplines was better implemented although it was point & click
Too bad the game consisted 99% of 1 room 4 nossies, next room 3 nossies, next room 6 nossies... after 50 rooms - boss fight! rinse and repeat - this time with Tremere instead of Nosferatu. And so on and so forth.

Also: Where is Anezka!?

 

[Quilty]

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:shock:

 

[WholesaleGenocide]

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:shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:

 

[Black Cat]

@ Malachi

"As I said in that same post, the Codex hivemind has more stringent standards for what constitutes an honest-to-God RPG. Multiple methods of trashing critter #783 are not sufficient. There are no multiple methods of solving major quest lines. A good RPG can do quest solutions at least three different ways: talking, fighting, or sneaking. Sometimes a combination of these, sometimes multiple ways within a category (intimidate versus persuade comes to mind, as it is commonly used). Diablo has you blow stuff up, and that's it."

Are you trying to say Lands of Lore and Eye of the Beholder and Betrayal At Krondor and all those thingies are not, like, honest-to-Codex RPG, since all you do in them is blow stuff up, cut stuff down, solve puzzles and riddles, and get lost in mazes? Like, really? And no one is flaming you yet? This place's reputation is greatly exagerated.

 

[Darth Slaughter]

Bloodlines is a first-person action RPG, similar to Fallout 3.

Travesty. You're actually comparing Shitout 3 with Bloodlines?

Well, in a way, it's correct. By similar, he obviously is refering to the control system, point of view, talking heads, which are present in both games in almost the same way. Which is the original poit of this thread. Controls schemes.

By almost, I mean that fallout 3 does a bad job, while VTMB do a good one. Even in aspects not so important, like graphics and animation, much better in vampires (in fact, saying this may sound that fallout 3 have good animations, which in fact it has none).

In fact, people should compare them more, and then they would see how silly and childish fallout 3 is.

But I would have said Deus Ex instead of Fallout 3.

That said, i feel the comparison is more apropriate than compare diablo 2 with VTMRedemption. And they diferent in a lot of ways. And control-wise, I think VTMRedemption works more like NWN.

 

[Malachi]

@ Malachi

"As I said in that same post, the Codex hivemind has more stringent standards for what constitutes an honest-to-God RPG. Multiple methods of trashing critter #783 are not sufficient. There are no multiple methods of solving major quest lines. A good RPG can do quest solutions at least three different ways: talking, fighting, or sneaking. Sometimes a combination of these, sometimes multiple ways within a category (intimidate versus persuade comes to mind, as it is commonly used). Diablo has you blow stuff up, and that's it."

Are you trying to say Lands of Lore and Eye of the Beholder and Betrayal At Krondor and all those thingies are not, like, honest-to-Codex RPG, since all you do in them is blow stuff up, cut stuff down, solve puzzles and riddles, and get lost in mazes? Like, really? And no one is flaming you yet? This place's reputation is greatly exagerated.

That's a hell of a good point, and one that I've thought about before. Why should the older games get a pass, right? I don't have a single answer, but I think the following points are helpful:

As an older geek, I tend to think of the older computer games as having more "RPG-ness" the closer they got to replicating a pencil and paper AD&D session. (Full disclosure: I played first edition AD&D and a bit of the second edition when it came along.) As you said, a lot of the older games are blowing stuff up, solving puzzles and riddles, and getting lost in mazes. So is a lot of D&D, at least the kind I played as a kid. A lot of them (thinking SSI Gold Box) were party-based. A lot of them were turn-based. These factors replicate a lot of pencil and paper D&D experience as well.

What the games did not replicate very well from the pencil and paper experience was the stuff that did not translate easily into dice rolls. Dialogue was pretty crappy, for the most part, but the Ultima games get a special mention, since I think it had party interaction long before anybody else was doing it.

The old school games might also get a pass because maybe we just didn't know any better at that point. Since D&D tended to have a combat-and-loot heavy focus, and a lot of early games were D&D or D&D-inspired, perhaps it just took the RPG concept a while to evolve away from that. Fallout came out in ... 1995? Planescape in 1998 or 1999? Maybe it took having groundbreaking games in order to let us see that an RPG could be more than just hack and slash.

I certainly think that if some of those older games were to come out today, we would be more inclined to think of them as within the closely related category of "dungeon-hack" instead of "RPG" in the Fallout / Planescape sense. Still, as long as they were turn-based, party-based, and had puzzles and quests requiring some thought, they would still be more "RPG", in my opinion, than Diablo. Perhaps RPG-ness is a continuum, rather than a binary either / or.

Stopping my post here, before I start rambling too much. But thanks for bringing up that point.

 

[MetalCraze]

Are you trying to say Lands of Lore and Eye of the Beholder and Betrayal At Krondor and all those thingies are not, like, honest-to-Codex RPG, since all you do in them is blow stuff up, cut stuff down, solve puzzles and riddles, and get lost in mazes? Like, really? And no one is flaming you yet? This place's reputation is greatly exagerated.

You'll soon learn that there are enough next-gen fags over here who are ready to call anything RPG and best game ever even if it doesn't have stats and plays like a shooter only because it has LARPing dialogues.

 

[cesm23]

i found another one that seems to have direct character control and mouse too :

Avencast: Rise of the Mage

 

[Jasede]

@ Malachi

"As I said in that same post, the Codex hivemind has more stringent standards for what constitutes an honest-to-God RPG. Multiple methods of trashing critter #783 are not sufficient. There are no multiple methods of solving major quest lines. A good RPG can do quest solutions at least three different ways: talking, fighting, or sneaking. Sometimes a combination of these, sometimes multiple ways within a category (intimidate versus persuade comes to mind, as it is commonly used). Diablo has you blow stuff up, and that's it."

Are you trying to say Lands of Lore and Eye of the Beholder and Betrayal At Krondor and all those thingies are not, like, honest-to-Codex RPG, since all you do in them is blow stuff up, cut stuff down, solve puzzles and riddles, and get lost in mazes? Like, really? And no one is flaming you yet? This place's reputation is greatly exagerated.

Hey, I was busy.

Malachi you fucking shitnigger cunt, dungeon crawlers are RPGs too. Get the fuck out of my Codex with your pussy C&C jerk-off and never post again you shitting dicknipple semenbag.


Edit: Though Skyway=MetalCraze is right, these days you get the worst of both worlds here: the "ONLY FALLOUT-LIKES ARE RPGS" who really seem to be saying they want to play Lone Wolf Choose your own adventure book (CHOICES AND CONSEQUENCES) and the "Deus Ex, System Shock 2, Jagged Alliance 2 and Star Control 2 are RPGS!!!" kids who can't tell the difference between FPS, RPG, strategy games, adventure games and hybrids thereinbetween.

 

[Hory]

For the sake of clarity, we can just call dungeon crawlers proto-RPGs. I mean, a Neanderthal tapping various rocks with a stick because he thinks it sounds funny might produce music, but it wouldn't make music justice to put primitive barbarism in the same class with classical compositions. Same thing with RPGs and barbaric players striking various enemies with sharp sticks because they find it fun.

 

[Malachi]

Jasede,

Thank you for the toasty flame, which I am guessing was in response to Black Cat's "no one is flaming you yet?" remark. Now I truly feel at home at the Codex.

If you would read my previous posts in the thread, I outlined my thinking as to whether a dungeon-hack is a subcategory of RPG, a related category, or simply its own category altogether, if the "RPG" category has been co-opted by the (all too rare) Planescape / Fallout / Bloodlines sort of game.

Which one applies to dungeon-hacks? I don't know, and I'm not sure it matters -- as long as it's a good game, who cares? I like dungeon-crawls, when I'm in the mood for them. I am playing Titan Quest right now, just because it's a Diablo clone with a pretty neat setting. It has its flaws, but it will do until Diablo 3 comes out.

I do think it's fair to say that a dungeon-hack should probably be referred to as a dungeon-hack. Calling it an "RPG" means that its experience would be considered comparable to Bloodlines or Fallout, and I think it's far enough removed from those, that a comparison would be apples vs. oranges.

Many thanks for your input.

 

[Jasede]

It's not old games who have to compare to Bloodlines or Fallout, it's Bloodlines and Fallout who have to compare to what was the established RPG genre.

 

[Hory]

Old games don't have to do anything. They are inert matter devoid of needs. It's the people who decide what the useful measure is. Using the primitive, unpolished works of unexperienced pioneers as the standard stifles progress.

 

[Double Ogre]

Using the primitive, unpolished works of unexperienced pioneers as the standard stifles progress.

Now imagine Bethesda (or any other next-gen developer) using this quote in relation to Fallout/Bloodlines.

 

[Hory]

They could use it, but it wouldn't be true. Troika based their work on dozens of years of progress in the field. They are not pioneers, they're perfecters. And Bethesda are the regressors. They didn't improve the work of the people before them, they reduced and repackaged it.