Game News Lords of Xulima II Development Update: More Casual Or More Hardcore?

[Deleted Member 16721]

To those who think NBA 2K is casual, you might want to read the first post in this thread:

http://www.operationsports.com/foru...munity-simulation-slider-set-hof-real-fg.html

I haven't played in awhile but there are many more settings to adjust, including individual coaching tendencies and so on. That's also not showing or factoring in individual player tendencies that vary from player to player, the way the AI works and even things like creating and using custom playbooks.

While NBA 2K certainly can be played by casuals it most definitely has a dedicated hardcore base as well. Due to the very high level of customization available that means that casuals and hardcore mutants can enjoy the same game.

 

[Excidium II]

To those who think NBA 2K is casual, you might want to read the first post in this thread:

http://www.operationsports.com/foru...munity-simulation-slider-set-hof-real-fg.html

I haven't played in awhile but there are many more settings to adjust, including individual coaching tendencies and so on. That's also not showing or factoring in individual player tendencies that vary from player to player, the way the AI works and even things like creating and using custom playbooks.

While NBA 2K certainly can be played by casuals it most definitely has a dedicated hardcore base as well. Due to the very high level of customization available that means that casuals and hardcore mutants can enjoy the same game.

If you don't need to worry about it to play it doesn't matter. Every game can be sperg'd if you want.

 

[l3loodAngel]

The game either has mainstream appeal or it doesn't. You can add a multiple layers of complexity and make it complex for no real reason. It won't make any difference if the gameplay boils down to: UP, DOWN, LEFT, RIGHT, Shoot, crossover.

It won't make the game magically hardcore, just because there are AI options or defense combinations. Just as customization options in Audi, BMW or other auto showroom won't make it a fucking race car. It's the other level product.

 

[Deleted Member 16721]

Ok Celerity. There's no convincing you but anyone else is free to look into it themselves if they are interested.

And if you think NBA 2K gameplay boils down to what you just described, feel free to play someone skilled at setting coach tendencies, has studied the playbooks for longer than most people have played a modern RPG in total and are familiar with all the advanced controls. Enjoy your 50 point loss and subsequent ragequit when that happens.

 

[Excidium II]

COMPETITIVE NBA 2K ESPORTS

 

[Deleted Member 16721]

If you don't need to worry about it to play it doesn't matter. Every game can be sperg'd if you want.

What do you mean by this? The point is that there are easier modes and ways to casualize the game for casuals, yet hardcore modes and options for hardcore players. If you are a casual who knows nothing about the game and tries to play on Hall of Fame difficulty, it's not going to go well for you.

 

[Excidium II]

If u can beat the game without it doesn't matter.

 

[Deleted Member 16721]

COMPETITIVE NBA 2K ESPORTS

Fun stuff. But we're getting way off-topic. The point is that the 2K series is a great example of an incredibly deep and complex game that caters to both ends of the difficutly spectrum.

 

[Deleted Member 16721]

If u can beat the game without it doesn't matter.

When you want to start making sense feel free to let me know.

 

[Valky]

I hope they don't casual it up. The "normal" difficulty option these days (and in LoX) is in reality the easy option renamed, I'd rather they focus on fixing and improving the original game system than adding ten new difficulties for casual faggots who shouldn't be touching my RPGs with a ten foot pole to begin with.

 

[Deleted Member 16721]

And with that attitude YOUR precious RPG will not make enough money to fund a sequel. Doesn't make much sense to me.

No one wants them to "casual it up". I want hardcore a la carte options, too. But to tweak an MC Serch line, "If there ain't no papes there's no game." Adding casual options that do not negatively impact the experience (because they are OPTIONS and you don't have to use them) means they can make more money and still deliver a quality CRPG.

 

[Celerity]

So this is the second thread about this fluent derailed with retarded ignorant bullshit.

Hey DarkUnderlord . Harbringer of Decline tag when?

 

[Deleted Member 16721]

Oh no, a tag. Anything but that.

There is nothing derailing about anything I posted. The topic is More Casual or More Hardcore for Xulima, and my posts deal with that.

I find it interesting how you are so against my view when I am actually trying to improve the hardcore experience in games like this. Do you think the devs are going to succeed if they make the default game mode Deepest Dark and shun 99.9% of the gaming community? And do you think the game is going to take off if many of the players are frustrated with the game because by default it has too many restrictions for them? Then ask yourself if Food will still be a mechanic in game 2 or 3 in the series when everyone is complaining about it.

While I appreciate your mod for making an even harder difficulty level, making the base game more hardcore with no options to casualize it is not going to bode well for games that offer hardcore modes. If you want hardcore modes to continue and be viable, I believe you have to appeal to the casuals as well. Otherwise the studio will get about 50 sales from a bunch of mutants like you and I who play the hardcore modes and no more games will be made in the series because they didn't turn any profit.

If they offer options for more levels of gamers, the game will naturally sell more, do better and then we all win. I don't see how this is some controversial view.

 

[Valky]

And with that attitude YOUR precious RPG will not make enough money to fund a sequel. Doesn't make much sense to me.

No one wants them to "casual it up". I want hardcore a la carte options, too. But to tweak an MC Serch line, "If there ain't no papes there's no game." Adding casual options that do not negatively impact the experience (because they are OPTIONS and you don't have to use them) means they can make more money and still deliver a quality CRPG.

We don't negotiate with terrorists.

 

[Celerity]

Quit pretending you're hardcore. Aside from some mobile game you've never actually completed anything, especially the hardcore games.

No, I don't think the default difficulty should be Deepest Dark. At the same time the other difficulties are so low they quickly become trivial or even start that way. There's massive scaling problems. Making the game more casual, so it attracts a bunch of people who still can't handle a complex game and still wouldn't like it because there's no cutscenes leading them every step of the way is simply a waste of the dev's time.

The truth of the matter is that these "options" would only attract poser hardcores. You know, people who constantly say they're hardcore but get rekt by Hastrana or Khornil or wtfever and quit.

Know what'd actually improve the hardcore experience? Deepest Dark as the highest difficulty. Because that way difficulty affects enemy skillsets and encounters as well as their stats and loot.

 

[Deleted Member 16721]

Lol. I didn't quit because I got rekt by Hastrana or Khornil, if that's what you're implying. Silly guy. I get bored after 100 hours with the same RPG and move on to something else generally. I will return to Hastrana in the future, and I have plenty more Xulima videos to upload, that go way past Khornil.

 

[Deleted Member 16721]

And I'm fine with something like Deepest Dark as the highest difficulty level. But the lowest difficutly level should be a Story Mode. Quest markers should be optional. I just chatted with someone else who played the game for 70+ hours last night. He knew a lot about the game and had great insights, and even being a CRPG veteran he had trouble figuring out where to go at times. I didn't have that problem, but for those that did why not add an option for quest markers?

Your own enjoyment level should never keep others from having fun. Being more inclusive and offering options for different types of gamers is only going to benefit your game in the long run.

 

[commie]

Well to be fair I can see where Fluent is coming from, but I think it's a fools errand to try and appeal to casualfags. Waste of time. They either get on board or they stick with Skyrim. Look at Grimrock: you can make a game pretty and the casualfags will pick it up but no amount of streamlining and casual modes compensated for the fact that in action it wasn't a game that appealed to them and this is a realtime blobber, not even TB. The fact that the second game despite being a far superior experience, only sold 1/3rd of the first shows that there just isn't the inherent mass appeal of these games no matter what concessions are made to the casual audience.

Xulima has what? 50k sales on steam and from all sources, doubt it's anywhere close to 100k. How did making an 'easy mode' help here? A couple of thousand extra copies that only result in bad experiences and almost guarantee no repeat sales? The Xulima guys would have done better to put the game in a Humble Bundle and that would not only guarantee more exposure and income, but I'd wager they'd end up getting more converts to TB blobbers(even if just 5% on the 200k+ that buy the bundle) that would then pick up a Xulima 2, than any number of bullshit streamlining and handholding aids in the second game.

 

[Deleted Member 16721]

They didn't make an Easy Mode, that's the thing. I've seen numerous complaints both on their forums and on other forums about the restrictive mechanics in the game. Food, for example. The number one mod on the Workshop is HATE FOOD, with over 2k subscribers. It essentially makes Food completely trivial.

After watching people talk about the game it's clear that some people wanted to like the game but certain things held them back. Not understanding where to go, not understanding the difficulty system (why can't I kill this Impossible Ogre?!) or the encounter design and so on. I think if they address some of these things like I've suggested they would increase sales and word of mouth. If 2K+ people hated food, then give them an option to just turn it off. I like the Food mechanic and how restrictive and meaningful it is, and I don't want to see it removed from the game because people hated it. Rather, give them an option to disable it for their game. Then we can both enjoy it.

If they also add more in the Glossary or in-game Codex about the design philosophy, that could help, too. They tried to do that, but they wrote 2 very brief paragraphs about exploring the world, and people probably don't even know that section is there. Things like that go a long way, IMO. People get frustrated, can't figure out the game because it's different than other CRPGs out right now and they either give up, write a negative review or just spread negative word of mouth or none at all. On some level you do have to really baby things for people because a lot of people won't understand what this game is about.

 

[Zorba the Hutt]

Hey fluent , why did you delete this video? Was one of your best

 

[commie]

But it's a slope....making a food toggle..then they'll whine about too many encounters. Then about no quest compass. Where do you stop? Are they making the game for fans of the genre or some faggots that are only going to whine about this and that?
You said there is a food mod, so there's the solution. Make the game moddable and they can go to town, replacing all the enemies with 1HP My Little Ponies and so on. Why waste time and effort on scum that won't appreciate it anyway? You say that mod is used by 2000 people, so clearly it's a tiny amount of whining cunts in the first place. What is the benefit of wasting time on these things and the rebalancing that would have to go with them to create a decent experience as opposed to spending effort on the actual game to make it a fine adventuring experience?

 

[Excidium II]

It just looked bsb. I saw fluent playing and almost dozed off.

 

[Projas]

I just chatted with someone else who played the game for 70+ hours last night. He knew a lot about the game and had great insights, and even being a CRPG veteran he had trouble figuring out where to go at times.

In Xulima? Is he by any chance brain damaged?

Generally, I'm in favour of more options in games, but I think the line has to be drawn somewhere and games probably shouldn't cater to people who literally can't read.

 

[Deleted Member 16721]

In Xulima? Is he by any chance brain damaged?

Generally, I'm in favour of more options in games, but I think the line has to be drawn somewhere and games probably shouldn't cater to people who literally can't read.

You may be an Ultimate Superior Being With Supreme Intellect, but not everyone is on the same level. I have spoken to several CRPG vets who had issues here and there with Xulima. Myself, I knew nothing about the game and adapted somewhat "okay", but even I had a slight issue at one point. That is, figuring out you had to sneak through the Sporia Plain was not apparent at all, especially considering I thought the note on the Dead Guy was just flavor text. It wasn't until a bit later I realized that if the game tells you something, it's likely important and directly impacts the game itself. When you're just starting out that is not entirely apparent.

So, would I want them to make it Easy Street for me next time? Hell no! I want them to make it just as challenging or moreso. That's the point. I don't want them to remove these things from future games, and I want other developers to do similar things with the world design and challenge level. But I realize that not everyone has my level of patience. Not everyone is going to walk around the game world for an hour or two before finally figuring out what to do. So I'm in favor of adding options to make the experience easier for those who want it. They can have more fun than they otherwise would with the game and the core Hardcore design would not be altered for my playthrough.

 

[Deleted Member 16721]

To go further, why do you think Skyrim went completely in favor of quest markers design compared to Morrowind? I could say the same thing about Morrowind - "Learn to read the journal and follow directions!" But guess what? Not a lot of people liked doing that. So what did Bethesda do? They completely changed the design. Made it much more casual and easier to get into. But here's why what I'm saying is important. Had they developed it with my design ideas, we would have a journal that doesn't NEED quest markers, and also an option FOR quest markers for those who want it. That is, the game would be written to be able to be played without markers, with a quest marker option toggle. Instead, we get a journal that is literally unplayable without quest markers. Do you see what I'm saying yet?

Another example. Someone I know is a big RPG fan. He's played more Morrowind than anyone on this board, I guarantee that. He knows it inside and out. Recently I thought, "Hey, let me buy him The Quest. He should like it as it's sort of a turn-based Morrowind." He played it a bit and doesn't like it. Why? He can't figure out where to go too well. He's not a big reader in RPGs, even in Morrowind, so when a quest journal relies entirely on that he may lose interest. So, rather than playing The Quest, which is a fine RPG, he doesn't play it at all. Instead of spreading word of mouth about how much he enjoys the game and getting others to try it, it goes unplayed. The developers have no intention of adding quest markers as an option. Thus they may get a sale from him and then it's a dead end. He won't buy the expansions and he's not interested in future games from them. This is just a simple example but it's clear to see why options like this would help the business model for many indie RPG developers.