[LP CYOA] 傳

[TOME]

Why was Shun immune to the music? Something to do with him being royalty?

And our orthodoxy rises again.

 

[Rex Feral]

AABBA

 

[Fangshi]

Fangshi, would you be willing to flop so Armaiti rescues the emperor with us? We need to prove the Fire Cult can be trusted and Murong Yandi should be some very strong backup for the girls.

Not unless we send Guo Fu or Lingshu with the girls instead. I am more concerned about them getting abducted or injured than I am about the Cult looking good.

I am also of the belief that there will be little political difference between having Jing save Shun and having Jing and Armaiti save Shun. Jing is head of the Cult, a fact that will come out eventually. We are also a close ally of the emperor, a fact that is likely to become wide spread (if not public) knowledge in the short to mid term. If Jing's actions prove insufficient to change the opinions of the Sects then I doubt that Armaiti's actions will have much more of an impact.

I would be more open to arguements that demonstrate Armaiti will be more useful to us in our fight than she would be to Qilin and Yunzi on their mission, though admittedly we have no idea what either group may encounter beyond the broad strokes. Even then I would require someone else to go with the girls to keep the teams even, I do not want either group to go into this weaker than they need to be.

 

[Nevill]

I think it is a bit premature to base our decision on the PR effects of the success. I believe it would be more prudent to concentrate on achieving the said success, first.

Our goal here is to 1) Rescue Shun 2) Secure the sword 3) Don't get anyone killed in the process.

A case can be made for any of the fighters to pursue 1 or 2, but ultimately we want to succeed in all of them.

It then makes sense to base our choice on where our fighters would be most efficient, and not where they would get the most spotlight and glory.

It is pretty easy to split our group into teams. Team orthodox (Lingshu and Guo Fu) would be at their best if they had to face a morally unambiguous situation instead of the leader of the Eight Sects. Team Fire Cult are well used to working together, and Yunzi is already going after Nie. Murong Yandi, as someone not belonging to any of the teams, should probably support the weaker group just to be on the safe side.

 

[tropic]

I haven't said anything for a few updates because I voted to end the LP earlier. But I can resist no longer:

Why not send EVERYONE after Shun? The sword is poisoned or cursed or fake or some crap, and Shun is our supreme BRO.

 

[Nevill]

Why not send EVERYONE after Shun?

Because two of our girls are going the other way, and it is dangerous (to go alone, take this)?

“Nie must have went off on his own with the Xuanyuan Sword,” says Qilin quickly. “His Majesty and the woman should be in the passage on the right. I’ll go and trail him, to make sure he doesn’t do anything funny with the sword. Jing, you can go after the Emperor.”

“I’ll go with you,” says Yunzi. “It’s not safe to go alone.”

I know, the lure of the Homo Ending is strong, but let's not get anyone killed, ok?

 

[TOME]

Qilin and Yunzi are going after the sword regardless. I think we need to train them better so that they too would stop and ask Jing for orders.

 

[Nevill]

Qilin and Yunzi are going after the sword regardless. I think we need to train them better so that they too would stop and ask Jing for orders.

Hey, I know a pair of brothers that can help with that.

 

[tropic]

Ugh Ok, reading comprehension fail.

AABAA

 

[Absinthe]

Fangshi, the problem here isn't whether Jing can be trusted but whether the Fire Cult can be trusted. Even with Jing proclaimed as their leader, people are more likely to consider that a nominal title. We need an Amesha Spenta with us to prove they can be trusted. Also, ChumBucket, Kipeci, tropic, would you be willing to flop from AABAA to AAABA?

I think Murong Yandi is the best in a sword fight and the presence of another respectable Great Sword wielder would open up a diplomatic solution (Qilin is a very capable fast talker). I think they need diplomatic solutions or escapes more than straight firepower (which is probably a lost cause considering Nie Wuxing probably has a legendary technique or two up his sleeves). If it comes to it, Murong Yandi can hold them off while the girls escape and they wouldn't kill the Sword Saint's disciple because of precious reputation. At the same time, I think Armaiti's Yiyang Finger and techniques for shaking up a battlefield will do us more good facing a woman who has strange defenses against conventional weapons.

 

[asxetos]

A
A
B
B
A

Qilin, Yunzi, Armaiti and Murong Yandi to Nie Wuxing
Jing, Xuezi, Song Lingshu and Bro Fu to Shun

 

[Fangshi]

Fangshi, the problem here isn't whether Jing can be trusted but whether the Fire Cult can be trusted. Even with Jing proclaimed as their leader, people are more likely to consider that a nominal title.

Right but if they do not want to trust us then they will choose not to trust us no matter what we do. If they start arguing that we are not the real head of our own faction and that what we do is of no consequence then they can just as easily argue that Armaiti is playing a double game. That she merely helped the emperor to trick the sects into trusting the Cult prior to a second invasion, people will see what they want to see, same as always.

The three antagonistic sects are likely to remain antagonistic whether Armaiti comes or not while the three 'good' sects are likely to back us based on Jing's reputation and deeds not those of his subordinate.

The Beggars and Lingshu's Sect will all come down to who winds up in charge when the time comes.

So I still do not see how Armaiti's involvement improves things on a PR front in such a way as to justify sending the girls off without at least four people. I do not want to lose our claim to the Wudu or fail the Cult by losing one of those two, they are too important. (Also TRU LUV and all that other stuff. )

If it comes to it, Murong Yandi can hold them off while the girls escape and they wouldn't kill the Sword Saint's disciple because of precious reputation.

What is to stop them from killing him and saying he disappeared or that they were attacked by evil spirits and he fell?

It would only be them and Yandi down there if the girls flee. And Nie is a 'paragon of virtue', he would never murder someone right? I suspect they could well kill someone and get away with it in the chaos.

At the same time, I think Armaiti's techniques for shaking up a battlefield will do us more good facing a woman who has strange defenses against conventional weapons.

Possibly, that is what I am leaning towards as well when it comes to justifying Armaiti's presence but it does seem a bit like overkill to me given the orthodox pugilists already on her trail, Fu, Lingshu, Jing and Xuezi (I suspect we will get to see her go all out against the emperor's abductor). While Qilin and Yunzi's group seems a bit anemic by comparison. Yunzi is almost on our level and Yandi is no slouch either while Qilin is good in support but none of them strike me as having the sort of endurance to weather a fight, Armaiti would be useful to absorb damage while Yunzi and Yandi dish it out and Qilin runs support and does battlefield management.

 

[asxetos]

Armaiti should be the croud control of Nie group, plus she will keep an eye on Yunzi.

 

[Tigranes]

Man, Absinthe has some really good points this time.

AAABA

 

[Absinthe]

If they start arguing that we are not the real head of our own faction and that what we do is of no consequence then they can just as easily argue that Armaiti is playing a double game.

"Just as easily" is quite a stretch. This argument of yours sounds like a Perfect Solution Fallacy to me, Fangshi. Just because they can still argue doesn't mean their position would be near as strong. Having Armaiti help out would still be enough proof for the Emperor and Bro Sects to declare that the Fire Cult is trustworthy.

What is to stop them from killing him and saying he disappeared or that they were attacked by evil spirits and he fell?

It would only be them and Yandi down there if the girls flee. And Nie is a 'paragon of virtue', he would never murder someone right? I suspect they could well kill someone and get away with it in the chaos.

Other than the fact that the girls would escape (high qinggong/agi/stealth) and tell their side of the story? The fact that our own crew, including Song Lingshu and Guo Fu, would back us up when we say which way Murong Yandi was headed. And this is assuming they can control all the witnesses on their own side. Not to mention, when the Sword Saint looks into it, he'd probably believe us over them, and then they would probably have made a personal enemy out of Changguan Chuji. That's really not good for them.

And I don't think he can just quickly bring Murong Yandi down in the chaos. Murong Yandi is too good for that and he doesn't particularly trust them at any rate. Besides, they'd also want Qilin alive and abducting (or killing) Qilin would make an enemy out of the Wudu poison cult. Also an unwelcome development. I think the team of Yandi/Qilin/Yunzi is good enough to make it out alive.

At any rate, it doesn't even need to turn into a fight. Odds are with Murong Yandi there, Qilin can spin a quick narrative about how they came to help with securing the sword and thus keep a close eye on their movements. Battle averted.

Possibly, that is what I am leaning towards as well when it comes to justifying Armaiti's presence but it does seem a bit like overkill to me given the orthodox pugilists already on her trail, Fu, Lingshu, Jing and Xuezi (I suspect we will get to see her go all out against the emperor's abductor). While Qilin and Yunzi's group seems a bit anemic by comparison. Yunzi is almost on our level and Yandi is no slouch either while Qilin is good in support but none of them strike me as having the sort of endurance to weather a fight, Armaiti would be useful to absorb damage while Yunzi and Yandi dish it out and Qilin runs support and does battlefield management.

I'm not sure it's a good idea to have Xuezi go all out if we can help it. She should save that for the Huashan Summit. At the same time, I think we need Armaiti's style of combat (including her new Yiyang Finger) to keep the veiled lady off-balance. Sure we have a lot of orthodox pugilists on her trail, but I don't think conventional weapons are going to be particularly effective against her fighting style (especially if she holds Shun hostage).

Also, I really don't think we should aim for a fight with Nie Wuxing and company because Nie Wuxing has a few legendary techniques by now and the rest are still master level fighters. Simply put, it requires way too much firepower to take them down. I think we should focus on winning the fight to recapture Shun and leave Yunzi and Qilin to do some scouting, keep an eye on things, and escape if need be. Nothing more.

 

[Fangshi]

"Just as easily" is quite a stretch. This argument of yours sounds like a Perfect Solution Fallacy to me, Fangshi. Just because they can still argue doesn't mean their position would be near as strong. Having Armaiti help out would still be enough proof for the Emperor and Bro Sects to declare that the Fire Cult is trustworthy.

I am sure I am certainly missing something.

The way I see it is that either Jing saving the emperor personally will be enough of a justification for an amnesty or it won't. I do not believe Armaiti will be able to influence things substantially either way.

I can not see a concrete reason why the actions of one AS will achieve what the actions of the Lord of the Temple can not. What I think will happen is that the three sects that are already open to our presence will move closer to us should we succeed. The three sects that are allied with the zhangs will use every tool at their disposal to prevent the acceptance of a Jing led Cult into the empire. Finally the two remaining sects will go where their leaders tell them to once their respective leadership disputes are over.

I really do believe that if our saving the emperor can be dismissed by the zhangs and the Nie block then Armaiti's involvement can similarly be turned to their advantage. I see it as the lesser arguement in favour of the Cult, only useful is supporting Jing's greater claim. After all, we at least have the advantage of being Chinese where as the Cult are foreigners and will forever be stained by that.

Of course I also think that Jing alone will be capable of getting the necessary PR boost by saving the emperor. Assuming of course that we do in fact succeed and that there is not something else going on here.

Other than the fact that the girls would escape (high qinggong/agi/stealth) and tell their side of the story? The fact that our own crew, including Song Lingshu and Guo Fu, would back us up when we say which way Murong Yandi was headed. And this is assuming they can control all the witnesses on their own side. Not to mention, when the Sword Saint looks into it, he'd probably believe us over them, and then they would probably have made a personal enemy out of Changguan Chuji. That's really not good for them.

I doubt that the heads of the sects (those that are not already well disposed to us that is) would accept the words of the Wudu heiress and the Holy Maiden of the Fire Cult (both of which are not even proper Han Chinese) over those of Nie and his followers. If the issue is in doubt the orthodox gentleman with zhang clan backing would probably win out.

Lingshu and Fu would of course believe us but Nie does not have to dispute that Yandi left to find him, he does not even need to argue against the fact that Yandi did catch up to him. He only needs to make the case that vile assassins or minions of our prey ambushed them and killed poor Yandi in a most dishonourable fashion.

Again I agree the Sword Saint would probably side with us in such a situation, of course if Nie does have multiple legendary techs as you suggest, and he is in possession of multiple legendary swords, and he has access to very powerful Wudu based poisons then he quite possibly has nothing to fear from the Saint at this point. It might be worth more to him to ensure he escapes than to worry about making enemies as he moves towards his endgame. All this is speculation though, we do not know his motives or how powerful he actually is.

I'm not sure it's a good idea to have Xuezi go all out if we can help it. She should save that for the Huashan Summit. At the same time, I think we need Armaiti's style of combat (including her new Yiyang Finger) to keep the veiled lady off-balance. Sure we have a lot of orthodox pugilists on her trail, but I don't think conventional weapons are going to be particularly effective against her fighting style (especially if she holds Shun hostage).

I am open to that sentiment but not without sending someone to help out Qilin and Yunzi. If orthodox techs are in fact less useful against her then we could probably spare either Lingshu or Fu to go with them. Though we are starting to get into the sort of conjecture here that has undermined our efforts in the past.

As for Xuezi, we may not have a choice. If she decides to do something we can not control her and she seems determined to go after the immortal.

Also, I really don't think we should aim for a fight with Nie Wuxing and company because Nie Wuxing has a few legendary techniques by now and the rest are still master level fighters. Simply put, it requires way too much firepower to take them down. I think we should focus on winning the fight to recapture Shun and leave Yunzi and Qilin to do some scouting, keep an eye on things, and escape if need be. Nothing more.

That is quite possibly the case, and Qilin and Yunzi do not intend to actually get into a fight as well so that is a point in favour of traveling light. However I think they will likely run into someone or something and I want them to have extra help in case they do. By this point Armaiti should work quite well with Yunzi and it is her duty to protect the Holy Maiden, I want her doing something she would do naturally so she is fully committed to the task at hand.

Finally if Nie is as powerful as all that then that seems like an even better reason to send the extra help. It might take everything they have simply to escape. And that is assuming they do not run into something completely unexpected while scouting out the tunnels below the base of a slightly unhinged immortal.

 

[Absinthe]

I am sure I am certainly missing something.

The way I see it is that either Jing saving the emperor personally will be enough of a justification for an amnesty or it won't. I do not believe Armaiti will be able to influence things substantially either way.

I can not see a concrete reason why the actions of one AS will achieve what the actions of the Lord of the Temple can not.

The problem is not just whether Jing can be trusted, but whether his subordinates, the Fire Cult, can be trusted to follow his lead. The Fire Cult's reputation is that bad. This was the exact issue that Abbot Fangci raised:

By the time you finish convincing the Shaolin elders that no, you are not lying about being the new Fire Lord, half of them have fainted and the other half were still choking on the food. Abbot Fangci has a look of grave concern. “Keep this a secret for now, as best as you can,” he says. “Certain other sects would be less… tolerant. This is a very sensitive issue. Still, you promise much, to claim that you can sway such a heretical cult to your bidding.”

“Don’t worry about it, musclehead,” sighs Xuezi. “Just keep your little friendship a secret for now, while you wait and see how the boy fares. It’s not like we’re asking you to go about announcing it with gongs and shouts.”

“I suppose you are right, child… but why are you in here, again?” frowns Fangci.

We need to show that the Amesha Spenta can be trusted.

Again I agree the Sword Saint would probably side with us in such a situation,

That is good enough. They don't want to make an enemy out of him, and if the Sword Saint announces his belief that Nie Wuxing killed Murong Yandi, that alone would be a huge blow.

I am open to that sentiment but not without sending someone to help out Qilin and Yunzi. If orthodox techs are in fact less useful against her then we could probably spare either Lingshu or Fu to go with them. Though we are starting to get into the sort of conjecture here that has undermined our efforts in the past.

That is why I am voting to send Murong Yandi. He should be enough alone. Also, Song Lingshu needs the rep boost to retake Qingcheng and Guo Fu is too easily manipulated. We still need all the firepower we can get against this veiled lady anyhow.

As for Xuezi, we may not have a choice. If she decides to do something we can not control her and she seems determined to go after the immortal.

We don't even know if she is an immortal. Xuezi will decide to do something if she feels her power is necessary, but if we create a strong enough side, she wouldn't need to. This isn't a power she can afford to release just because.

That is quite possibly the case, and Qilin and Yunzi do not intend to actually get into a fight as well so that is a point in favour of traveling light. However I think they will likely run into someone or something and I want them to have extra help in case they do. By this point Armaiti should work quite well with Yunzi and it is her duty to protect the Holy Maiden, I want her doing something she would do naturally so she is fully committed to the task at hand.

I think Murong Yandi is better suited though because the enemies are master swordsmen, so his sword skills are most appropriate. Furthermore, as the disciple of the Sword Saint, I'm going to guess he's good at protecting people. Traveling light is good because we need the same people we send in there to escape if it gets bad.

Finally if Nie is as powerful as all that then that seems like an even better reason to send the extra help. It might take everything they have simply to escape. And that is assuming they do not run into something completely unexpected while scouting out the tunnels below the base of a slightly unhinged immortal.

You're still trying to think of this in terms of firepower. Sheesh. Murong Yandi only needs to stall them a little bit and the girls can run away with their high agi/qinggong/stealth. Why would they go through the effort of chasing down the girls, anyhow? Securing the sword is a higher priority to them. I'd also prefer the possibility of a diplomatic solution with Nie Wuxing which suggests we should keep Fire Cult attendance low.

 

[Esquilax]

I think Fangshi is on the money. A ABBA

 

[tropic]

I'll flop to the Absinthe solution AAABA.

 

[Baltika9]

Tally, let me know if I missed anyone:

Spoiler

Nevill AABBA
Kz3r0 AAAAA
ifeex XXXXX
Kipeci AABAA
Elfberserker AAABA
ChumBucket AABAA
Absinthe AAABA
Baltika9 AAABA
Grimgravy AABBA
Akkudakku BABAA
TOME AABBA
Jester ABABB
Fangshi AABBA
Rex Feral AABBA
tropic AAABA
asxetos AABBA
Tigranes AAABA
Esquilax AABBA
Lambchop19 BAAAA

A- 16
B- 2

A- 17
B- 1

A- 7
B- 10

A- 5
B- 13

A- 17
B- 1

 

[Esquilax]

After having read the arguments here a bit more thoroughly, I can see both sides of it. On one hand, I disagree with Fangshi in that I do think that having Armaiti aid in saving Shun would be a huge boon for the Fire Cult, especially since we aren't publicly acknowledged as Lord of the Fire Temple yet. On the other hand, I disagree with Absinthe in that I think that sending off Yunzi and Qilin to go after Nie Wuxing is extremely dangerous. They have high stealth skills, but it's not like Qilin can turn invisible and run away in front of someone in case she's in trouble. You need the right person for the right job - that means that Guo Fu is obviously best placed to help Shun where things are clear-cut and not confusing for him, and someone like Murong Yandi, who knows how much of a cunt Nie Wuxing really is, is best placed to aid Qilin and Yunzi.

Song Lingshu and Armaiti could work in both situations, IMO. While Lingshu is eager to aid her fellow orthodox pugilists, she realizes that these people are out to do her harm too, and that they've done their part to corrupt the Eight Sects. As naive as she is, Lingshu is our ally, and she'll be solid against Wuxing. Armaiti has no qualms with taking on Wuxing - but is that really a good thing? Can that situation be spun as a bunch of evil Fire Cultists and their allies trying to rob the respected Nie Wuxing of the Xuanyuan Sword in his possession? He promised that we'd all go together, but that could also be turned against us as well.

 

[Baltika9]

I think that Lingshu is a must to go rescue the Emepror, for one reason only: this will make her reclamation of Qingcheng that much easier. The only reason that I want to send four people after Wuxing is to keep our girls safe. However, Absinthe does have a point that they're all badass fighters and aren't there to fight in the first place. Also, having an Amesha help bail the EMPRAH will look good on our Cult, no matter how you spin it. Gotta sit on this for a while.

 

[Nevill]

After having read the arguments here a bit more thoroughly, I can see both sides of it. On one hand, I disagree with Fangshi in that I do think that having Armaiti aid in saving Shun would be a huge boon for the Fire Cult, especially since we aren't publicly acknowledged as Lord of the Fire Temple yet.

Nah, that just does not work.

We are the Fire Lord, and that would be enough for some. But for those people that it wouldn't be enough for, there is no proving it.

How come the reputation of the Fire Cult became dependant on one Amesha Spenta?

Ok, this Amesha is upright. But there are 5 more of them, and they are all evil witches and sorcerors. Ok, those 5 will prove they are good, but they are subject to the will of the Holy Maiden, and she is the most evil witch of them all (and a Tujue invader, too). Ok, the Holy Maiden and Amesha are all saints, but that's just 7 people. The regular cultists are where the Real Evil is - we can never trust them!

It just never ends, and you know certain sects will do everything in their power to perpetuate these views.

So it does not make sense to try hard to convince those that can't be convinced. And for those that can, a show of good leadership from Jing is enough.

It might look better, but for those who have eyes it is not required, and for the others, it is too little, so in the end it is pointless.

 

[Baltika9]

I'm considering this from a different perspective: how will it look if we send Yunzi and Armaiti both after Wuxing? What kind of bullshit story (and that's about the only thing the man is good at) will he be able to spin? OMG TEH FIER KOOLT IS IN LEAGUE WITH THE IMMORTAL! FOR TEH EMPRAH KILL THEM ALL!

Yeah, maybe Yandi, Qilin and Yunzi are indeed enough.

 

[Nevill]

All I'm saying is that if you think too hard about squeezing +1 Swords into your rewards when you have a serious fight on your hands, you end up with Swordsman Yifang, where people managed to trick themselves out of an intuitive answer by convoluted arguments.

Yunzi (TEH EVUL FIER WITCH) is already going after Wuxing, there is no stopping her, and there is no stopping Wuxing from spinning whatever story he likes. Let him do his worst, he is the one at a disadvantage here if he tries to run away with the sword.

I am more concerned about the safety of our crew. The PR stuff comes later.

The paranoia here reaches the level of 'can't show our techniques to anyone, ever'.