[LP CYOA] 傳

[Nevill]

You say it as if there were no middle-ground between 'lalala, couldn't care less', and 'I WILL HAVE MY REVENGE!'

When Abbott Fangci kicked our beloved Yunzi around, we did not fly into a murderous rage or came to despise him all of a sudden. Is it because we don't care what happens to her? Is it because we were more worried about what happens to us? No, it's because these things are expected to happen in a fight, and it would be stupid to hold a grudge against someone for that.

I honestly fail to see your side of the argument. Their situation is not going to be pleasant for the Twins, no matter what they choose. It isn't supposed to be. So what?

How would their father be expected to partake in the Huashan Summit if what you say is true? Do they HATEHATEHATE everyone he crosses swords with? Did they ever drop a hint there were so irrational? How does one even live in the world of martial arts with an attitude you describe?

And us losing would make the choice better how?

'Kicking the living snot' implies a one-sided fight. This would be anything but.

No, it will not make things better. But hating someone for trying to hold their ground in a duel where they are outclassed is even more ridiculous.

 

[Grimgravy]

Not going to flop from E. I don't like any of the other options in the slightest. Not that I like E mind you. It's just the least of the evils presented.

 

[a cut of domestic sheep prime]

When Abbott Fangci kicked our beloved Yunzi around, we did not fly into a murderous rage or came to despise him

Of course not. But we aren't them. Every update they've been in, they've been emotional, immature and incredibly protective of their family members. Heck, they just shouted out a warning to Bai before attacking him.

I honestly fail to see your side of the argument. Their situation is not going to be pleasant for the Twins, no matter what they choose. It isn't supposed to be. So what?

You mean no matter what we convince them to choose, right? I thought you said before that they'd hate our guts later for pressuring them into a decision when they were in such a distressed state?

Anyway, my argument is that D has the most chance of either:
1) Making them run to their injured father's side and apologize to him, blame us for hurting him and they end up back with mommy dearest anyway.
2) That not happening, but them seeing us as someone who beat up their dad and just not liking us for the remainder of the LP. (And we will probably have to beat him up pretty bad to make him let go of his daughters. I mean, do you really think he'll just let us slap him a few times and call it even?) If they pick it themselves in E, that's one thing. But if we convince them?
3) Us losing a duel.
4) Us dying.

How would their father be expected to partake in the Huashan Summit if what you say is true? Do they HATEHATEHATE

Not hate, but they probably wouldn't like his competition very much at all. It'd be perfectly in character for them to sneer at them and keep their distance too. But then, this is going to be a far more intense fight than that. Nie will want to murder us.

 

[Nevill]

Anyway, my argument is that D has the most chance of either:
1) Making them run to their injured father's side and apologize to him, blame us for hurting him and they end up back with mommy dearest anyway.

If we hurt him significantly more than expected in such a fight, yes.

2) That not happening, but them seeing us as someone who beat up their dad and just not liking us for the remainder of the LP. (And we will probably have to beat him up pretty bad to make him let go of his daughters. I mean, do you really think he'll just let us slap him a few times and call it even?)

That... would be just extremely poor sportsmanship. It's the point of the whole pugilistic system to fight the other guy and see who comes out on top. If you can't accept that, you have no place in it.

Let's just say that my opinion of the Twins is higher than yours, and drop it at that.

Also, a sword to the throat ends the fight rather convincingly without having to slice your opponent in pieces. Just saying.

3) Us losing a duel.
4) Us dying.

Yeah, losing and dying is bad. What else is new?

But then, this is going to be a far more intense fight than that. Nie will want to murder us.

Oh, he will want to. But I don't think he can afford a duel to the death here. Not with his 'I am the proud and fair leader of the orthodox community' shtick.

 

[Rex Feral]

Yeah yeah, flopping to D

 

[a cut of domestic sheep prime]

Oh, he will want to. But I don't think he can afford a duel to the death here. Not with his 'I am the proud and fair leader of the orthodox community' shtick.

We are not a member of said community. Plus, in arguing that he should lose custody of his daughters without proper cause (ie, us taking responsibility) we will have insulted his honor. I'm no ancient Chinese lawyer, but I think that'd probably be enough reason to kill us. Besides, "accidents" happen in duels all the time.

That... would be just extremely poor sportsmanship. It's the point of the whole pugilistic system to fight the other guy and see who comes out on top. If you can't accept that, you have no place in it.

Let's just say that my opinion of the Twins is higher than yours, and drop it at that.

Let's not. Two very confused young girls are not going to be sportsmen-like in any respect. Especially not these two:

“You are a threat to our father,” declares Nie Mudan.”…and to Bai shixiong, too. If you are practicing some strange, demonic art to grow stronger, we cannot let you be.”

They are willing to fight us on the suspicion that we may be a threat to their father. What do you think they'll do when we are actually fighting him?

“Oh, now he says that? Well, I suppose he knows me quite intimately…” you sigh.

This appears to anger them. “Stop your slanderous lies!” shouts Nie Mudan, charging forward. Her guard is off.

Emotional and shortsighted even in combat.

“Oh, perhaps… are you jealous of your baby brother? Are you scared that your father will pay less attention to you now that he has an actual heir that can carry on the family line?”

“Of course not!” cries out Shuixian. “This isn’t about Baojun.” Shuixian looks slightly pale after hearing Madam Nie’s words, but rallies together quickly,

They definitely value their father's love and attention a great deal. This clearly hit home. Not the most mature girls to be jealous of a new baby either.

I am afraid of you, and for you, Mother. I don’t think whatever you are planning will end up going well for our family and for Huashan.

They are concerned for their mother, even though they know their mother may not have them or their family's best interests at heart.

no, they might be even more naïve, with strong loyalty to their adopted parents.

Speaks for itself.

The most important thing to these girls is their family. When we start beating up their family, they may not like us so much and may even change their mind about this whole thing. That's a more than reasonable assumption. This can be resolved without bloodshed for the time being. If it is to be resolved with a duel, I'd prefer they be the ones to decide - without our convincing them.

Also, a sword to the throat ends the fight rather convincingly

In theory. In practice things may end up differently. It's difficult to tell as we've never seen him fight, but if I had to guess, I'd say his sword skill could be equal to ours or slightly better. If we fight with swords. And he does have at least one of the manuals and the mistress of poisons' tricks to fall back on. A tough fight to be sure, so I find myself doubting it would end so bloodlessly.

 

[Absinthe]

Lambchop19

Re: Aren't they going to hate us when we fight their father? Hell no. That's the way conflicts get solved in the jianghu and the twins are members of the jianghu themselves. They'd mind it a bit, sure, but since we'd be fighting on their behalf, they would respect that.

Re: Aren't they going to hate us if we end up maiming or killing their father? I wouldn't be worried about that happening. We're not out to maim or kill him in the first place, and Shenjian Lingyu will prevent us from accidentally doing anything of the sort. Even if we do somehow end up crippling/dismembering him, Cao'er could patch him up to fix it. Not a pleasant outcome were it to happen, but even then there will be no lasting harm.

Re: Losing and dying Losing would be a shame, but even losing with D is better than the disaster that is likely unfold from C. Dying would be a bigger problem, but at this stage we're strong enough to prevent that, and he would not have sufficient reason to actively try to kill us in D either.

Remember, the twins will hate the outcome from C: they are proper orthodox fighters all about family and honor. With C, we would be massively dishonoring both the twins and their father. Even if that would tie them down to us, it would do it in the ugliest fucking way. I wouldn't be surprised if they wouldn't want anything to do with us afterwards. And that's aside from the damage we would be inflicting on the support from our own crew and orthodox allies.

 

[a cut of domestic sheep prime]

Nevill: A big sign that you are voting wrong is if Absinthe is voting with you. No offense, Absinthe.

 

[Nevill]

We are not a member of said community. Plus, in arguing that he should lose custody of his daughters without proper cause (ie, us taking responsibility) we will have insulted his honor.

I am certain you swapped those two around. There is no greater insult to him than losing his daughters to a scoundrel. This is what earns us his undying grudge, remember? On the other hand, he does not own them, so if they want to live their own life from now on, his honor will not be damaged in any way.

The clause of 'taking responsibility' is anything but proper.

“You are a threat to our father,” declares Nie Mudan.”…and to Bai shixiong, too. If you are practicing some strange, demonic art to grow stronger, we cannot let you be.”

They are willing to fight us on the suspicion that we may be a threat to their father. What do you think they'll do when we are actually fighting him?

Again, I think you are confusing the terms - being a metaphorical 'threat' and 'enemy' is different from being an 'opponent' in the ring.

If we beat him in the ring, we are an 'opponent' who bested him. If we disgrace Huashan and bring ruin to jianghu and/or shame upon Nie family, we are a 'threat'. There are varying degrees of 'enmity', and I think they were referring to the latter.

The most important thing to these girls is their family. When we start beating up their family, they may not like us so much and may even change their mind about this whole thing. That's a more than reasonable assumption.

Not to me, it's not. I don't see a proper match as just a 'beating'. You imply that this is just as bad as ambushing them in an alley and the circumstances do not matter one bit as they would be trumped by emotions.

If it is to be resolved with a duel, I'd prefer they be the ones to decide - without our convincing them.

Then it is good that we aren't convincing them to resolve it with a duel? In fact, it is a single choice where we aren't convincing them to do anything. We don't bring the fighting into it at all, it is Wuxing who is going to request one.

I have no idea if we would be able to win this one or if it would be worth the cost, though. I will withdraw my D vote in the meantime, but I will maintain that I do not agree with most of your points.

 

[Absinthe]

Lambchop19, usually you and I vote the same way on a lot of issues, tbh. I think at this point your harem senses are just leading you to the quickest and most obvious route, but don't do it Lambchop. It's a trap. The true path to the harem comes from D. By earning their freedom and respect.

Nevill, we just got a massive powerup in the form of +2 to all our physical stats, and if I had to guess, I don't think Nie Wuxing will be revealing his legendary techniques yet. Fighting him won't be easy, but when has that stopped us? Also, at this stage it's between D and C, really. If it helps, think of it as "which of these options is less bad than the other?"

 

[Nevill]

I am just prolonging the tie to bring Esquilax and Tigranes out of hiding. It would help to hear their take on things.

I am opposed to C on a personal level, but I am also extremely curious how it would really end up.

 

[a cut of domestic sheep prime]

Nevill's been ignoring you for a while now, Absinthe. Probably had something to do with your insulting him a bunch a few updates ago.

 

[Absinthe]

Man, if we were to ignore each other just for insults, DU would have to buy a new server just to store our ignore lists.

 

[Elfberserker]

I am still confused why everyone thinks that we will be fighting instead of twins.

Its about indepence of twins and I think that they themself have to prove that they have what it takes to be indepent.
Xu Jing fighting on their behalf proves nothing about their ability to earn indepence.

 

[a cut of domestic sheep prime]

It would be pretty funny to watch Nie slap his daughters around, but I don't think that's going to happen. We might as well have just left them there to fight their mother if it would.

 

[Nevill]

I will have to repeat myself:

Because we will be the ones backing them up. If it comes to a fight, we can do better than them both, so if we want it to succeed, that is what we will do. On the Nie side, they would be more open to the idea of thrashing and humiliating us instead of publicly fighting between themselves.

That said, you are right in that it mentions a duel 'of some sort', and we can't be 100% sure what it will be.

Is there a fault with this logic? You tell me.

I, for one, am confused about why there should be a fight at all. Is it customary for children to fight their parents to earn the right to live separately?

I think Wuxing will try to pass it off as our meddling, and it will snowball from there.

 

[Absinthe]

a duel of some sort

Holy shit, could we challenge him to a weiqi match?

It'd be just the sort of thing to appeal to his honorable, gentlemanly stature, but if I had to guess, his int isn't likely to be above 7.

 

[Nevill]

Yeah, I was hoping for that one.

But the idea of the master swordsman deciding the fate of his daughters in anything other than a fight seemed a bit silly to me.

 

[Absinthe]

The master swordsman also has an impeccable reputation as a gentleman though and weiqi is one of the gentlemanly pursuits, especially in the jianghu given its association with martial tactics. Weiqi isn't considered just a game, and I think there would be considerable support from the community for a nonviolent solution in these circumstances.

Plus, I reckon Nie Wuxing, like Bai Jiutian, would probably think he couldn't lose to us in something like this. I think we could make this weiqi match happen.

 

[Elfberserker]

I will have to repeat myself:

Because we will be the ones backing them up. If it comes to a fight, we can do better than them both, so if we want it to succeed, that is what we will do. On the Nie side, they would be more open to the idea of thrashing and humiliating us instead of publicly fighting between themselves.

That said, you are right in that it mentions a duel 'of some sort', and we can't be 100% sure what it will be.

Is there a fault with this logic? You tell me.

I, for one, am confused about why there should be a fight at all. Is it customary for children to fight their parents to earn the right to live separately?

I think Wuxing will try to pass it off as our meddling, and it will snowball from there.

How does us fighting prove that twins are ready for independence? Or us doing any duel for behalf that matter?
All it proves that Xu Jing is capable doing that, not the twins.

Even if we are offering the support towards them, it takes twins them self convince rest of Jianghu that they are ready to live outside of their father house so to speak. It doesn't just make sense to me that they judge another person capalities based on what another entirely diffrence person has proved.

 

[Kz3r0]

I like the Weii proposal, sign me in if that becomes an option.

 

[Nevill]

How does us fighting prove that twins are ready for independence?

A good question. I'll raise you another one - how does anyone fighting proves their readiness for independence? What do these two things have in common?

What capabilities do you need to live your life the way you want? To be able to punch your father in the face if he does not allow it? Does it mean that as long as your father is stronger than you, you have no right to decide anything for yourself?

Why do you think this 'duel' is supposed to be a test of anyone's capabilities, and not just an attempt to force the matter in a publicly acceptable way?

I like the Weii proposal, sign me in if that becomes an option.

The whole point is that we don't know if that's an option.

 

[Absinthe]

Elfberserker, the duel doesn't really prove anything, but we're basically going to have an argument with Nie Wuxing about who is right and some sort of duel will be used to decide the winner.

Kz3r0, only one way to find out, unless treave is willing to tell us beforehand. I really want to do the weiqi match myself.

 

[treave]

Against Madam Nie?

Well, nothing that simple.

 

[Nevill]

Heh, I guess I managed to confuse myself with my own attempt at explanation.

treave, could you please clarify what would pushing for the Twins' independence entail? What would be the pretext for the duel that it is likely to end in?