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Nevill

Arcane
Joined
Jun 6, 2009
Messages
11,211
Shadorwun: Hong Kong
D would have been a victory. [...] Interestingly, even though you win, you don't get as much bonus reputation with the Ashina as in C because they appreciate your daring 'love confession' a lot more. But the Duke would be satisfied with the outcome.
So it was the absolutely superior choice then, just with less tsundere involved?
Goddammit.
Blasphemy, says I! Tsundere IS the absolutely superior choice!

Seriously, though, did you look at our record? Sekh, Iltani, Kyrie - we chose to stuck with this type at every opportunity, all the while bemoaning our fate. We mock and shun the cliched archetype with caustic words, yet seek it out nonetheless. The Codex embraced the concept to such an extent that it is being tsundere to the idea of tsundere itself! :P

Our fate is sealed.
 

treave

Arcane
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Messages
11,370
Codex 2012
Notice on the character sheet there's a scale that dictates our character's "orthodoxy". treave, orthodoxy indicates our character's adherence to a martial code of honour (i.e. if we're some sort of monk practitioner, this means only fighting with our fists at all times), right? An unorthodox type is willing to break the rules, not fight fair, that sort of thing, correct?

The 'code' is more of some general guidelines. You'll find out more about what is considered orthodox and unorthodox when you begin the first chapter: but in essence, orthodoxy is what the main orthodox sects say it is. But yes, generally an orthodox person is seen as an forthright, noble, upstanding guy, while unorthodox characters are deceptive, cunning and sneaky. This can be reflected in the techniques they use. The scale will affect your reputation with the various sects depending on which side they skew to.

You can also be hanging around with unorthodox people despite being upstanding yourself and get tarred with an unorthodox reputation, which may close some paths. Basically, it is impossible to please all factions.
 

Kipeci

Arcane
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May 22, 2012
Messages
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Location
Vicksburg
we could defer martial training for just a bit. As of now, it does seem like Tigerbro's innate capacity will tide us over.

I feel the need to point out that despite our 'innate capacity' we were just beaten in a fight by a fourteen year old girl.
She got lucky.
With a luck stat of 1, we can probably count on most of our foes to similarly get lucky unless we gain enough skill so that we can crush them despite their luck.
 
Joined
Feb 11, 2007
Messages
2,952
Anyway, I don't know how much is B going to help us in palace intrigues. The description specifically states "in the wilderness". But it still looks like an interesting choice, so B it is for me (plus I don't know why a stealth technique that works in wilderness wouldn't work in say gardens or even on the streets). Unarmed fighting is not something I'm a fan of (I can't help but feel that having a weapon, any weapon is an advantage) and bows... well it sounds good, but I'm not sure how much use we are going to have from it.

I'm not so sure about that, considering that this is a wuxia setting and not real life. I'd reckon that a fantastic unarmed fighter could be aware of pressure points, might have better versatility (i.e. fists and feet vs. using just the weapon) and could potentially stomp a weapon wielder in a fight quite handily. An unarmed fighter might also be able to strike much more rapidly than someone wielding a weapon, which would fit with the style taught in A pretty much perfectly. Given the nature of the setting, I'd say unarmed fighting is extremely useful.
I know that in this setting there are specific techniques that allow unarmed fighter to go toe-to-toe with weapon wielders. But what I'm saying is that with evenly skilled combatants (and there will also be weapon techniques made specifically to counter those unarmed techniques) I would still prefer to be the guy holding the sharp metal object of destruction rather then the guy that needs to defend against one.

I think that stealth skill would add some much needed subtlety to our tiger. Also, voting for B gives a point in qinggong, and that sound every useful indeed:
Qinggong (Light Body Skill)
The ability to perform impossible acrobatics, glide across water, and leap across rooftops in a single bound. Those with high levels of this skill will be able to move as lightly as a feather and dance around their enemies’ blows. (AGI)

Voting for A doesn’t appear to give anything except the technique - why not pick up another technique somewhere else, either for our sword or for unarmed combat.
 

Baltika9

Arcane
Joined
Jun 27, 2012
Messages
9,611
D would have been a victory. [...] Interestingly, even though you win, you don't get as much bonus reputation with the Ashina as in C because they appreciate your daring 'love confession' a lot more. But the Duke would be satisfied with the outcome.
So it was the absolutely superior choice then, just with less tsundere involved?
Goddammit.
Blasphemy, says I! Tsundere IS the absolutely superior choice!

Seriously, though, did you look at our record? Sekh, Iltani, Kyrie - we chose to stuck with this type at every opportunity, all the while bemoaning our fate. We mock and shun the cliched archetype with caustic words, yet seek it out nonetheless. The Codex embraced the concept to such an extent that it is being tsundere to the idea of tsundere itself! :P

Our fate is sealed.
:love:
Hopefully it is sealed for real this time. We keep letting all these princesses slip through our fingers. :rpgcodex: Never Again!
If I were a betting man, I'd put ten bucks on the camp being raided before we leave for good.

And bros, I want to ask for something: please, play the character on his own merits, don't make decisions based on the "I don't want to do this because that's what Ean would do" logic. He's different now, and he has potential to become different later, don't skim on swords because "Ean had Anbar'Shi" (although I'll regret saying that when the time comes to pick between popamole swords and :obviously: spears), or do the heroic shit because "that's what Ean wuld do." Have fun with Tigerbro as a separate character, these two aren't even in the same setting.
 

Nevill

Arcane
Joined
Jun 6, 2009
Messages
11,211
Shadorwun: Hong Kong
On a slightly more serious note.

treave, please do not take it the wrong way - by no means I am trying to tell you how to conduct your own LP - but can the meta-knowledge be disclosed at the end of the chapter instead of right away? I understand the need to confirm that our course of action was correct, but I prefer to get this kind of information from the updates themselves, rather then from the Word Of God. Pondering over whether you did the right thing is half the fun, and as long as we can get our answer in the end, everyone can be happy.

For example, now that I've read the outcomes for all four choices, I've got a better understanding of the Duke. We know that he is angry at us not because we endangered his mission (in which case he would still be angry in A) and not because he is afraid that people will attribute successful negotiations to our meddling (which is countered by D), but because we upset the frail political balance with our reckless proposal, while being completely oblivious towards it. There is no way to cement the alliance with nomads further - the princess can no longer be the prince's concubine now that she is almost betrothed to you, can she? The Duke is just concerned with the fate of our kingdom, first and foremost, but I believe that this type of knowledge is not something that our protagonist should by privy to, and would be best found out by interactions with the character in question. I also would prefer that we understood the consequences of surrendering in a contest by observing Ashina ways of life and their culture, rather that being told outright they consider it an insult (an obvious one, but still). Simply put, I enjoy seeking answers (and making mistakes) on my own, without peeking at a crib.

I also understand that there may be those who would want to check their answer straight away, but I am trying to raise a concern here that might have gone unnoticed otherwise.

Now that that is off my chest, a quick question.
“Was our match just a show, then, wise khan?”

“Oh, let me guess,” says the khan with a grin. “You dislike the idea of having competed falsely, in a rigged match? Even if you lost, you wanted to lose in a meaningful competition?”

“Do not worry about that, kid,” says Bulun. “My wayward daughter reacted entirely out of her own impetuousness. I had other plans for this visit, but she acted rashly and jumped to conclusions about her marriage prospects, devising a ploy to challenge you and show how much better she is. It was unexpected to me too, but I decided to work with that instead.”
No matter how I look at it, I do not understand this part. What does it matter to us if the khan had other reasons behind challenging us? I mean, the "official" reason for the challenge was to see whether Tang men are worthy of marrying Ashina women, and we did not intentionally enter the match to prove that, did we? We just accepted the fight for the sake of it, the motives behind it were completely irrelevant to the outcome, so what is it that we disapprove about the situation? Why does the khan refer to it as a rigged match? It is not like the princess lost because he wanted to impress other tribes with our performance.

Oh, and B for our vote. It fits thematically, because tiger is a living embodiment of stealth. It also implies self-control, calculation and restraint, and God knows our protagonist needs to cool down a bit.
 

Baltika9

Arcane
Joined
Jun 27, 2012
Messages
9,611
For example, now that I've read the outcomes for all four choices, I've got a better understanding of the Duke. We know that he is angry at us not because we endangered his mission (in which case he would still be angry in A) and not because he is afraid that people will attribute successful negotiations to our meddling (which is countered by D), but because we upset the frail political balance with our reckless proposal, while being completely oblivious towards it. There is no way to cement the alliance with nomads further - the princess can no longer be the prince's concubine now that she is almost betrothed to you, can she? The Duke is just concerned with the fate of our kingdom, first and foremost, but I believe that this type of knowledge is not something that our protagonist should by privy to, and would be best found out by interactions with the character in question. I also would prefer that we understood the consequences of surrendering in a contest by observing Ashina ways of life and their culture, rather that being told outright they consider it an insult (an obvious one, but still). Simply put, I enjoy seeking answers (and making mistakes) on my own, without peeking at a crib.
Wrong interpretation, the Duke is pissed at our recklessness, not cockblocking the Prince. D would have pleased him, even though it would be us that would get hitched, that tells me he cares about success, first and foremost, but we knew all that from the update.
As it is now, the Prince still could marry the Princess, if he beats her in a challenge. Not that he would cockblock his bro.
 

Nevill

Arcane
Joined
Jun 6, 2009
Messages
11,211
Shadorwun: Hong Kong
Wrong interpretation, the Duke is pissed at our recklessness, not cockblocking the Prince. D would have pleased him, even though it would be us that would get hitched, that tells me he cares about success, first and foremost, but we knew all that from the update.
Is he?
A would have worked - you don't get as much love from the tribe, but you don't anger the Duke either.
We could have failed due to our recklessness, but it was not what angered him. This did:

The prince’s face turns serious. “Stay out of his way for a while. Your horse-jumping stunt made him really angry. It was too reckless.”

“You think it was too reckless?”

“Well, it was fun to watch, but I wouldn’t have tried it. For multiple reasons. I’m sure it will work out fine in the end, however.”

You are about to ask him what reasons, when Bulun Khan comes sweeping into the tent.
'Multiple reasons' being that we unknowingly made a proposal to the princess of the tribe. It was this horse-jumping stunt that made the Duke mad at us.

Oh, and we would not get hitched in D. We would have not proposed, it would have been just a combat match.
 

Baltika9

Arcane
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Jun 27, 2012
Messages
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Yeah, and D would automatically marry Tigerbro to her on the spot. Still would please the Duke, however, what does that tell us about him?
 

Nevill

Arcane
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Messages
11,211
Shadorwun: Hong Kong
Yeah, and D would automatically marry Tigerbro to her on the spot.
Uh... why? Is it too meta to ask treave about their customs, after what I've wrote above? For some reason, I do not get this feeling at all.

Also,
you don't get as much bonus reputation with the Ashina as in C because they appreciate your daring 'love confession' a lot more.
The Ashina got endeared to us because we are marrying the princess. In D, they are just awed at our prowess. Ergo, we are not marrying the princess in D... right?
 
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Baltika9

Arcane
Joined
Jun 27, 2012
Messages
9,611
No, a victory would be an auto-marriage, which is why the crowd is so eagerly waiting for a rematch: can't marry her 'till we win.

On a different note, you guys do realize that having him learn stealth won't turn him into Garret on the spot, right? You can be stealthy and ballsy at the same time.
 

Esquilax

Arcane
Joined
Dec 7, 2010
Messages
4,833
On a different note, you guys do realize that having him learn stealth won't turn him into Garret on the spot, right? You can be stealthy and ballsy at the same time.

No, but this new unarmed technique won't turn us into Mike Tyson on the spot either. That's fine, they both have merits - though, of course I like A better.

For example, now that I've read the outcomes for all four choices, I've got a better understanding of the Duke. We know that he is angry at us not because we endangered his mission (in which case he would still be angry in A) and not because he is afraid that people will attribute successful negotiations to our meddling (which is countered by D), but because we upset the frail political balance with our reckless proposal, while being completely oblivious towards it. There is no way to cement the alliance with nomads further - the princess can no longer be the prince's concubine now that she is almost betrothed to you, can she? The Duke is just concerned with the fate of our kingdom, first and foremost, but I believe that this type of knowledge is not something that our protagonist should by privy to, and would be best found out by interactions with the character in question. I also would prefer that we understood the consequences of surrendering in a contest by observing Ashina ways of life and their culture, rather that being told outright they consider it an insult (an obvious one, but still). Simply put, I enjoy seeking answers (and making mistakes) on my own, without peeking at a crib.

We knew the ultimate goal of this excursion from the first update:

Shun sighs as he shifts uncomfortably in his seat. “It’s a pain in my arse, that’s what it is. Still, we have no choice. Do you know of the Ashina?” You nod – they are one of the most influential nomadic tribes in the northwest. “The Ashina tribe have a strong voice amongst the Tujue people,” you say, “so if we manage to nurture a proper alliance, we can secure the border more easily in the years to come.”

So the whole point of here was to secure the border, the Duke's suggestion of taking the Khan's daughter as a concubine was simply a means to that end. If we manage to cement an alliance via other means, which we did, then we've accomplished our goal anyways.

I think you are a bit naive about the Duke. The man was upset that our recklessness could have caused a diplomatic mishap, true, but he was also pissed off because it would have reflected badly on him. He was trying to cover his own ass. I'm not saying the guy's a complete asshole, but there is no doubt that the man is a slick politician who doesn't care for the little shit who disrespected him just now. I can't say whether he truly cares about the Kingdom or if our character is just projecting negative traits onto him somewhat, but I'm pretty sure his animosity towards us just now was personal.

As for the Khan referring to the occasion as a "rigged match", he meant that he saw his daughter acting recklessly, but decided to only half-heartedly stop her because he wanted to see how we would react. The Khan's tribe is one of the more diplomatic tribes among the Tujue people and there were representatives there, so he couldn't really openly say "I want peace!" without compromising his position amongst the more hawkish tribes. However, if the other tribes witnessed a brave champion among the Tang in a martial arts match, they might be less willing to raid against us:

“That will be sufficient, Bulun Khan. The Tang thanks you for your understanding. It is better for us to grow stronger together. There is enough in the world for both the Tujue and the Tang.”

“Indeed. I have always been convinced of the importance of cooperation, but we needed to show the representatives of the other tribes what we already knew. They have witnessed a great performance from the Han today and will return impressed,” laughs the khan. “I apologize for not being straightforward, but it was necessary to see what you would do. More importantly, what should we do with the young lad that just declared his love so publicly?”

So it was "rigged" in the sense that we were being subtly manipulated by the Khan to show the representatives of the other tribes (whom we haven't seen or met) that it isn't wise to attack the Tang right now. He was pushing for us to give a good show to avert conflict in the future. And since we did give a good show, we bought ourselves some time and a lot of goodwill with the Ashina. Makes sense to me.
 

Nevill

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Messages
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Shadorwun: Hong Kong
Baltika said:
No, a victory would be an auto-marriage, which is why the crowd is so eagerly waiting for a rematch: can't marry her 'till we win.
I am interested in how she trained before, then. She would be betrothed ten times over by now.

She can't marry the man who can't beat her (this is supported by the text), but it doesn't mean she is obligated to marry everyone who does (I can't find anything except for Tigerbro's hunch that he might be forced into marriage).

Baltika said:
You can be stealthy and ballsy at the same time.
I'd like for him to be sneaky first, ballsy later.

Esquilax said:
So it was "rigged" in the sense that we were being subtly manipulated by the Khan to show the representatives of the other tribes (whom we haven't seen or met) that it isn't wise to attack the Tang right now. He was pushing for us to give a good show to avert conflict in the future. And since we did give a good show, we bought ourselves some time and a lot of goodwill with the Ashina. Makes sense to me.
That part I understand. What I can't get is why is our character displeased. He did fight to show what Tang are made of, he put up a good show and made quite a rep; whatever the reasons behind were, he has no right to complain.
 
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Kashmir Slippers

Magister
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Here, obviously
A

wolf_fang_fist_by_kuroichigo_the_lilty-d4vi25x.png
 

Baltika9

Arcane
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Messages
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She can't marry the man who can't beat her (this is supported by the text), but it doesn't mean she is obligated to marry everyone who does (I can't find anything except by Tigerbro's hunch that he might be forced into marriage).
I'll let treave clarify the exact details of Ashina traditions, but training is an entirely different matter. This was a formal challenge for her hand in marriage, traditions and ceremonies. Think of it like breaking in a wild horse: "You think you're man enough for me?"
No, but this new unarmed technique won't turn us into Mike Tyson on the spot either. That's fine, they both have merits - though, of course I like A better.
What I meant by that was that the style won't change our behavior and temperament. Sure, Tigerbro will learn to sneak, but he'll still be the same Tigerbro.
 

Nevill

Arcane
Joined
Jun 6, 2009
Messages
11,211
Shadorwun: Hong Kong
What I meant by that was that the style won't change our behavior and temperament. Sure, Tigerbro will learn to sneak, but he'll still be the same Tigerbro.
If he wants to utilize his sneakiness, he'll have to learn SOME restraint, which is what I hope for.
 

Tigranes

Arcane
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Jan 8, 2009
Messages
10,350
B. Jing seems to have no particular skills at the moment except fighting and confidence, and a modicum of courtly manners. He's going to need to diversify a little bit even if on the whole he remains Asskicker Mac.

Besides, the whole reason I ditched Dragon for this hothead is qinggong.
 

Kipeci

Arcane
Joined
May 22, 2012
Messages
3,027
Location
Vicksburg
Man, we really need to set ourselves apart from our previous characters. I propose we do as many females as possible. Not another virgin hero, codex, not another!

The harem WILL be assembled, we just need to walk back here at some point.
 

a cut of domestic sheep prime

Guest
So if we pick B we get stealth ability AND we automatically get a rank up in Qinggong?
Qinggong (Light Body Skill)
The ability to perform impossible acrobatics, glide across water, and leap across rooftops in a single bound. Those with high levels of this skill will be able to move as lightly as a feather and dance around their enemies’ blows. (AGI)
The alternative is 1 technique in unarmed with no skill bonus...

Definitely going B on this one.
 

Esquilax

Arcane
Joined
Dec 7, 2010
Messages
4,833
Lambchop19, I don't know if the unarmed technique gives us a boost in Unarmed skill, but the Shadow Step technique gives us a bonus to sneak, not to qinggong:

The Shadow Wolf Step will give a bonus to your sneak skill. The boost is higher in the wild, lesser in man-made places. At higher levels of the technique you will also get an agility stat boost while using the technique. If we're talking about combat, a high level Shadow Wolf Step will allow you to just about vanish from plain sight in the forest. However, being a specific technique and not a general skill, it is possible for the opponent to observe the movements, predict its moves, and finally develop a counter for it.

If we develop our technique, we'll get the chance to obtain an agility boost while using, but that presents challenges of its own - maybe someone has a great counter for our Shadow Step, so using it might not be wise. There are a lot of things that are dependent on the situation for each technique.

For example, the Wolf's Fist is awesome against a fighter who's a bit of a glass cannon and can't take much punishment, but if we were to throw a flurry of strikes against a sturdy Farmer type with a lot of Endurance, it wouldn't work so well.

That part I understand. What I can't get is why our character is displeased. He did fight to show what Tang are made of, he put up a good show and made quite a rep; whatever the reasons behind were, he has no right to complain.

What was he complaining about? I didn't see him complaining about anything but I can understand our character being upset that he lost the fight, though.
 

Jester

Arbiter
Joined
Mar 24, 2013
Messages
1,493
The harem WILL be assembled...
...and then promptly ignored. You can't break tradition like that.
Good one. :lol:

THought the princebro would get butthurt we might hitch with the princess, but then again he IS our bro.
Why would he? He met her for first time with Tiger if i am correct and it was duke idea with mariage. Can't say that prince looked interested in that.

Btw Treave you said Prince is skilled like hell, does that mean if we had choose right sign he could pass 10 points cap?
 

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