[LP CYOA] 傳

[XenomorphII]

Yes I know I did. The problem is that you are assuming he is going places while being an arrogant, not terribly cunning, and very ambitious person. That is usually a recipe for disaster, because it usually means overreaching and stepping on much more dangerous peoples toes. Though I do agree he will probably help the school to grow compared to the stagnation of his father, I just have serious doubts about his ability to carry it that far before he inevitably pisses off the wrong people.

 

[Jester]

Jester, I have troubles following your reasoning. Not sure what to make out of it.

Was trying to mimic post to underline that you written criticism about me proposing backing out, while trying to point to you that choosing what is right thing was your aim. After what page later you write that you cant choose just solution because you don't like the price. With you seemed to condemned judging from your first post. Even if i can praise saying truth about not wanting to pay, that change rely annoy me seams like double standard to me.
How this :

This is the kind of "see no evil, hear no evil" bullshit that I hoped our character would never, ever, succumb to, or even condone. Looking the other way is a nice survival skill, but they don't tell stories of this kind of people, not the ones that are worth hearing anyway.

Compare to this:

I just don't know whether they will allow for the duel if we don't raise a storm beforehand. That, and I do value bystanders' opinions, selfish though it may be. I would not like to be pegged as a murderous thief at the beginning of my career.
Not liking it.

From my point of view your second post is similar to that "see no evil" thing, with you condemned in my post.
Basically judging from your words you wanted to make tiger person trying to do right thing despite consequences to admit post later that its to hard to do.
Thought that made that ironical enough in last post, but guess i was wrong.

Edit.
Ah sorry my bad didn't see that you floped to B1. This make this post and last one meaningless or mby not if that can produce some B1 votes.

 

[Tigranes]

Very well, Esquilax is convincing: B1 > A1.

A2 is certainly weird as fuck as nothing will happen to the son except speed his scheming against his father and against us. B2 as I previously argued isn't particularly 'safe' in the long run, or particularly profitable now, or moral.

 

[a cut of domestic sheep prime]

A1

 

[treave]

Edit: Actually, treave, the concept of face is very important here. Would telling the father that his son attempted to murder him be a source of humiliation for the father? Perhaps it would be more tactful to not tarnish his son's reputation, and by extent, Master Rong's and the academy's reputation. If his son is remembered as an honorable swordsman who gave his life to save his father, then it reflects well on the family.

It will reflect well on them and should the truth come out one day, on you, but it also gives you the biggest hit to reputation and orthodoxy.

.

I feel that the choices here are a bit unfair. I would not want to kill anybody, not unless I absolutely have to. But the way they are phrased and their unfortunate timing does not leave me much room to maneuver. I am not leaving until I expose to Rong Muben the treachery of his son, but A2 just plain doesn't work. To do so in public, in the culprit's presense, with no proof, and when we were wrongfully accused just recently is fated to end in disaster, unless I back it up with something else. I would have much preferred to request a private audience with the old master, tell him everything and let him decide how to deal with his son - then, if he drives me out, his death would be his own responsibility. As it is now, the son will shut us up the moment we suggest his involvement, the parents and the crowd wil support him, and we will be chased out with ignominy before anyone has a chance to even consider our words.
.

A2 can play out as a private audience if you want.

 

[Zero Credibility]

I'm still sticking with A1. I think that the truth is much more important than the family saving face, even if they don't believe us. I really doubt that junior is working alone here - at the very least there are his thugs that were likely in on the whole thing. And quite probably somebody in the shadows that procured the poison for him as well. By concealing what has happened from the family we also conceal potential future danger from them. Sure, they could ignore our warnings later, but at least we will make them.

Plus, I can't help but feel that jumping back to killer fee now without explanation and with our reputation here already damaged after last night would give our character a reputation as a psychopath.

 

[Esquilax]

Jester, that was really besides Nevill's overall points in favour of A1. I suppose that an advantage of A1 would be that if we cause Rong Zhiyu to become desperate during the duel, he might resort to unorthodox techniques that he might have picked up along the way - the powerful poison indicates he knows people in that circle. During the course of the fight, he might give some tells that his image isn't as clean as he says it is.

Yes I know I did. The problem is that you are assuming he is going places while being an arrogant, not terribly cunning, and very ambitious person. That is usually a recipe for disaster, because it usually means overreaching and stepping on much more dangerous peoples toes. Though I do agree he will probably help the school to grow compared to the stagnation of his father, I just have serious doubts about his ability to carry it that far before he inevitably pisses off the wrong people.

I guess you don't follow politics.

If we pick A2, this will happen: Papa Rong will be furious at our accusations of his son - especially without backing it up in a duel. In a couple of weeks/months/years Papa Rong will die in an accident of some sort, and once Rong Jr takes over, the place will flourish thanks to his ambition and his father's signature technique.

But that won't be the only thing they teach. We can infer that Rong Jr's cultivated a lot of contacts not only in the orthodox world, but in a lot shadier circles - where do you think he got that poison? So the Songfeng school will act as a front: it brings students in by marketing their sword style as their signature technique, but once you get into the inner, trusted circle of people that the young Master has, that's where you see the darker side come out. I'm suspecting that he's been getting involved in a lot of unorthodox techniques because of the poison. But he also has a lot of great connections in the orthodox world to boot - this is a dangerous combination. And it could mean a lot more trouble down the road for us.

It will reflect well on them and should the truth come out one day, on you, but it also gives you the biggest hit to reputation and orthodoxy.

Are you referring to A1 or B1 here?

I'm still sticking with A1. I think that the truth is much more important than the family saving face, even if they don't believe us. I really doubt that junior is working alone here - at the very least there are his thugs that were likely in on the whole thing. And quite probably somebody in the shadows that procured the poison for him as well. By concealing what has happened from the family we also conceal potential future danger from them. Sure, they could ignore our warnings later, but at least we will make them.

Plus, I can't help but feel that jumping back to killer fee now without explanation and with our reputation here already damaged after last night would give our character a reputation as a psychopath.

I had already considered this - the son did indeed procure the poison elsewhere, but whatever the plan is, it depends on Rong Jr taking over the academy. The thugs are not a concern: they were following the Master's son (probably in exchange for favours and techniques), but without him driving them, they aren't going to do anything. Rong Jr could lead a mutiny because as heir, he would be the one taking over, so without him, there's no leadership. If you strike down the shepherd, the sheep will scatter.

Also, with B1, we will have an explanation: this is our first mission and we've never killed anybody, so we hesitated. Unfortunately, we are under orders from our Master to do so in order to maintain the balance of life and death. We will offer Rong Zhiyu a fair duel, and in the end, one of us will die, restoring the balance. Sounds reasonable.

Also, if there is a larger conspiracy behind this, then bluntly stating that Master Rong was nearly killed by a powerful poison will let whoever is directing it know that we are on to them. We are just kids starting out - we don't want any part of this shit right now. We have to hold this knowledge close and look for clues later ourselves.

 

[treave]

Are you referring to A1 or B1 here?

B1. The difference is because of the conviction that you express. They accept the Killer Physician's price, but if you phrase it as your last resort to save them, you come off as someone who has come to a mistaken belief about their son and has enough conviction to act on that belief.

If you do not, and declare you are killing for philosophy and also changing the target from the Madam to her son, well, they think less kindly of you for doing that. The moment you declare the price, Madam Rong will insist that she pay it. Jing can give some excuse for why he is picking the son, but it will be a less 'compelling' excuse (as in they don't think you really mean that) compared to the one in A1 and move you closer to Master Yao's own orthodoxy level (which is very low indeed).

But it is a good choice to take if you are selfless enough to shoulder even more of the burden.

Of course, we can only wonder what Yao would have done here. It is not unlikely that upon discovering the poison, healing it instantly and pondering what price to take, he would have capriciously chosen the son over the wishes of the mother. It wouldn't be the first time he's done a switcheroo on his patients. Sometimes he elects not to take the life of the person who offers themselves as sacrifice, but that of another that he picks. But of course, he always does it cleanly and painlessly. Part of the hazards of calling the guy, he's erratic and you never really know who he'll want to kill.

 

[Baltika9]

I wonder if Rong Sr. had some different plans of who would succeed him. That may have made Jr. jump the gun.

Well, even if he didn't, after last night's romp with Mrs. Rong things might be different now.

She's preggers, that's our excuse. No? Well, we're the doctors here and we say she is.

 

[Zero Credibility]

I had already considered this - the son did indeed procure the poison elsewhere, but whatever the plan is, it depends on Rong Jr taking over the academy. The thugs are not a concern: they were following the Master's son (probably in exchange for favours and techniques), but without him driving them, they aren't going to do anything. Rong Jr could lead a mutiny because as heir, he would be the one taking over, so without him, there's no leadership. If you strike down the shepherd, the sheep will scatter.

But they will still be there, and so will whoever was working with the son. What is stopping them from trying to off the father later on and install some other figurehead as the new master? After all, should the family all suffer sudden tragic deaths, somebody will have to take over, right?

Also, with B1, we will have an explanation: this is our first mission and we've never killed anybody, so we hesitated. Unfortunately, we are under orders from our Master to do so in order to maintain the balance of life and death. We will offer Rong Zhiyu a fair duel, and in the end, one of us will die, restoring the balance. Sounds reasonable.

Perhaps, but much less so than actual truth would I'm afraid.

Also, if there is a larger conspiracy behind this, then bluntly stating that Master Rong was nearly killed by a powerful poison will let whoever is directing it know that we are on to them. We are just kids starting out - we don't want any part of this shit right now. We have to hold this knowledge close and look for clues later ourselves.

It would still be blindingly obvious to the bad guys that we are on to them - how else would we heal the father if not by knowing he was poisoned? And why else would we take out the son and not the mother as originally intended if not because we know who the culprit was? The only people that wouldn't know what was going on would be the people we would be trying to protect from the truth.

 

[ScubaV]

A1

 

[Esquilax]

But they will still be there, and so will whoever was working with the son. What is stopping them from trying to off the father later on and install some other figurehead as the new master? After all, should the family all suffer sudden tragic deaths, somebody will have to take over, right?

Wouldn't work, too much infighting. With Rong Jr, he was the heir to the place and there were a lot of disaffected students that wanted the academy to expand and get more glory. Without him around, there's the question of who should be in charge of what and a whole lot of bullshit politics to contend with. They'd never be able to organize such a thing without the son leading it.

It would still be blindingly obvious to the bad guys that we are on to them - how else would we heal the father if not by knowing he was poisoned? And why else would we take out the son and not the mother as originally intended if not because we know who the culprit was? The only people that wouldn't know what was going on would be the people we would be trying to protect from the truth.

Good points. But nevertheless, I doubt that this goes that far deep. Rong Jr is just a guy who had some shady connections and decided to take over his father's struggling school because his father was running it into the ground. That being said, I think that keeping our mouth shut and taking the challenge is the upright thing to do here. I'm rather fond of playing Jaime Lannister - though I'll vote against any sister-fucking, should the option come by.

The disciples that are supporting Rong are very likely in the minority - he mentioned that there are four among them, though there might be more. But this is in a school of about 30 to 40 students. Really, this was all clandestine because most of the people in the academy are loyal.

 

[Baltika9]

Of course, we can only wonder what Yao would have done here. It is not unlikely that upon discovering the poison, healing it instantly and pondering what price to take, he would have capriciously chosen the son over the wishes of the mother. It wouldn't be the first time he's done a switcheroo on his patients. Sometimes he elects not to take the life of the person who offers themselves as sacrifice, but that of another that he picks. But of course, he always does it cleanly and painlessly. Part of the hazards of calling the guy, he's erratic and you never really know who he'll want to kill.

Situations like these make me wonder of he's really as erratic as everyone thinks.

Hey, maybe a highly unorthodox rep will help us get apprenticed by this guy

Southern Maniac: Zhang Jue (Unaffiliated)

Surely he's a decent sort.

Edit:

I'm rather fond of playing Jaime Lannister - though I'll vote against any sister-fucking, should the option come by.

Jamie was good with horses, obviously not us.

 

[XenomorphII]

I guess you don't follow politics.

If we pick A2, this will happen: Papa Rong will be furious at our accusations of his son - especially without backing it up in a duel. In a couple of weeks/months/years Papa Rong will die in an accident of some sort, and once Rong Jr takes over, the place will flourish thanks to his ambition and his father's signature technique.

But that won't be the only thing they teach. We can infer that Rong Jr's cultivated a lot of contacts not only in the orthodox world, but in a lot shadier circles - where do you think he got that poison? So the Songfeng school will act as a front: it brings students in by marketing their sword style as their signature technique, but once you get into the inner, trusted circle of people that the young Master has, that's where you see the darker side come out. I'm suspecting that he's been getting involved in a lot of unorthodox techniques because of the poison. But he also has a lot of great connections in the orthodox world to boot - this is a dangerous combination. And it could mean a lot more trouble down the road for us.

There is a great deal of difference between modern world, and the way things worked at different times and places.

That is a possible outcome. I think it is unlikely, but that doesn't really matter. He may become dangerous, I still don't think it is worth the trouble to us now though. If he wants to turn it into a life long vendetta, well good for him, meanwhile we should not care and should just do our job and leave.

 

[Tigranes]

Ugh. Well we finally seem to have a decent picture of the options:
A1 - The 'resolution' option. We're not going to leave any stone unturned, we will find out the 'truth' one way or the other and we will make sure we don't leave behind unfinished business. The problem being that, despite us risking our lives for it, I really don't see Pa an Ma believe us without any real evidence. And once we kill him in a duel, well, his death is no evidence, is it?
A2 - The 'compromise' option. We pretend we did our part by teling the old man, then we leave, who cares about the consequences - this is probably the option to take if we're really not wanting to lose anything (more) here and think Junior won't turn out to be too significant in our future story.
B1 - The 'sacrificial' option. We are going to develop a reputation as Master Yao's psychopathic kleptomaniac killer apprentice... a reputation which, given Songfeng's orthodox position and Yao's reputation, will spread pretty far. It's Ean-er than Ean.
B2 - The 'dickish' option. We really don't give a shit - it's the same as A2 really, but perhaps a little safer for us since Junior may decide that we don't really know that much after all.

I don't know. The best case scenario for A1 is that Junior somehow slips and reveals himself - he's not exactly a mastermind, but he also hasn't made any big slip ups so far and it's a bit of a thin rope. The best case for A2 is that the Master takes precautions and stays alive and keeps Junior on a leash (or even hires us to investigate), but since our argument wil be the weakest in A2 I don't see how that will happen at all. The best for B1 is of course that we... well, we kill him and take all the blame; so I suppose at least it is predictable. The best for B2 again is that nothing will happen to us, except maybe a Junior-sent ambush.

 

[Baltika9]

Guys, I think we need to approach this tactfully here: we're unorthodox so we don't really give a shit what the majority of the pugilistic world thinks. For us, martial arts are a great tool for getting shit done, that's it, so we don't have to follow some rigid code of bushido established by the orthodox world and so long as we're getting the right shit done, I don't mind that.
Which means we can do things the right way, not the proud way. And the right thing to do here, I think, is to take the rep and orthodoxy hits and make the family come out as the good guys that had bad things happen to them. Our Master's rep could cover this for us in the public eye, but we'll know the truth and we'll know that we brought the traitorous son to justice.

Of course, if we are completely selfless, we run the risk of eventually getting thrown into a spherical citadel made of white brick, with only our knowledge of having done the right thing keeping us warm. All for a good cause, though.

 

[Esquilax]

Which means we can do things the right way, not the proud way. And the right thing to do here, I think, is to take the rep and orthodoxy hits and make the family come out as the good guys that had bad things happen to them. Our Master's rep could cover this for us in the public eye, but we'll know the truth and we'll know that we brought the traitorous son to justice.

I can see some upside to developing a rep as Yao's killer apprentice. First off, we're a lot more socially savvy than our dear Master, so we can really surprise people once they meet us in person. Secondly, we went unorthodox partially as a result of our character being a rebellious adventurer, but also so that we can determine who was trying to kill the Prince. I could totally see how developing a reputation as the Killing Physician's deadly apprentice could open a lot of doors to the most ruthless and evil martial artists in the land. It would close many doors too, but it's important to note that a bad rep with one group might mean a good rep with another. I can totally understand voting A1, but other than going completely Ean in B1, it would allow us to go into deep cover for the Prince.

He's Harvey Shun, we're Tigerman. We can take the hit.

 

[Baltika9]

I hadn't thought of that. But yes, that does sound like a good idea: get in good with the schools that are gunning for him, get sent to take him out, and once we find him, tell him all we've learned.

 

[treave]

Current tally:

LWC1996 - A1
Ifeex - A?
Azira - B2
Jester - B2>B1
Esquilax - A1>B1
Storyfag - B2
Zero Credibility - A1
Kipeci - B2
TOME - B2
Bloodshifter - A1
Smashing Axe - A1
XenomorphII - A2
Nevill - B1>A1
Stygian Lurker - B2
ERYFKRAD - A1
Baltika9 - B1>A1
Tigranes - B1>A1
Lambchop19 - A1
ScubaV - A1
Kashmir Slippers - B2
Grimgravy - B2

A1 - 8 (11 with flops)
A2 - 1
B1 - 3
B2 - 8

Perhaps this will close in about.. hm, 5 hours or so.

 

[Kashmir Slippers]

Now that I think about it I go with B2.

It really isn't our say. We are not on the top of the totem pole. Cao'er said that there will be no death price, and she outranks us. Maybe we could ask her opinion, or something, but it seems really dick-ish for us to say that we weren't going to charge the price and then change our minds. Maybe it will make us an enemy. Maybe he will get over it. We don't know. I am afraid that us getting into a fight will get Cao'er to hurt someone and become a crazy demon-possessed lunatic. She might just rush into the fight, or something.

 

[Kipeci]

I'm intrigued by this 'letter of recommendation' thing that the master mentioned. Would this be something for another school? We could possibly get involved with one of the sects despite the earlier goof of luck?

 

[treave]

It's a letter that basically states you have done the Master of Songfeng a great service, he commends your conduct and that you are a honourable person, so to whomever reading this letter please treat upon the bearer kindly as you would the Master himself, and if he is asking for a job/apprenticeship do consider his request, etc.

It's hyperbole of course, they won't treat you literally as if you're Master Rong, but it's basically something you can use to enhance your good name.

 

[Kipeci]

Okay. One of our main goals should be to get our qi straightened out, so anything that might help us to get over to Wudang and recoaim lost time would help out... yet, not being a scumbag is also good. Hmm.

 

[Esquilax]

Do the right thing bros, B1. Let's go all the way with it and hope that in time, Master Rong learns the full truth of it. We'll get a rep as a bad motherfucker, allowing us to get deep undercover and find who was going after the Prince. Yes, this move will make us a pariah among orthodox circles, but it might also give us an in with some of the most vicious, evil pugilists in China. In the end, I feel that the Jing that boldly attacked the masked assassin who was looking for the Prince and threatening the Khan wouldn't let this bullshit slide.

But I'm putting the cart before the horse here. We are fighting an opponent that is tougher than us on paper, so we'll have to use all our smarts and strategy to neutralize his advantages in skill.

 

[a cut of domestic sheep prime]

It's hyperbole of course, they won't treat you literally as if you're Master Rong, but it's basically something you can use to enhance your good name.

But just how "enhanced is our rep" going to be when he kicks the bucket shortly after we leave and his son blames us for it?

Esquilax, I've read some of your arguments and you are placing WAY too much emphisis on TEH HONORU of his family.

Please try to keep in mind that in either of the 1s we are going to try to MURDER his beloved and only child. At least with A, we look like we're trying to do what we believe is right for him and his wife. B is just a masochist's choice. Whatever reason we give, we'll be murdering his son in front of him. Short of saving his life or his wife's life (so they can have more sons?), what could justify that in a father's eyes?

edit: I mean, which of the following is more likely to piss a blindly loving father off more:
"I want to murder your son." or "Your son is a murderer."

The first one obviously. If this guy was painted as some distant stoic figure that valued honor above all else, that'd be one thing - but the guy is just a regular bro who loves his wife and son.