[LP CYOA] 傳

[Grimgravy]

I don't like A. Father Rong loses face. We lose face regardless of whether we are correct for making him lose face. He needs to know he was poisoned, but our responsibility ends there. A recurring sickness could be blamed on the doctor. A recurring poison would be blamed on the poisoner. I also don't like going back on our word and claiming a life. The Rongs need to get their own house in order. If mom and pop aren't suspicious of their son given the timing of things, the consequences are on them.

B2

 

[Esquilax]

Yeah, you're right. Before treave clarified the choices a page ago, I figured that there might have been a cultural disconnect here: I got the impression that in this society, that if we accuse the son of murder and we're confident enough to put our lives on the line in a deathmatch that we end up winning, it reflects poorly on the father and fucks up his reputation and the reputation of his school. B1 just seemed more tactful at the time, but I'm probably sticking with it irrationally.

Actually, fuck it, back to A1 > B1

 

[treave]

Yeah, you're right. Before treave clarified the choices a page ago, I figured that there might have been a cultural disconnect here: I got the impression that in this society, that if we accuse the son of murder and we're confident enough to put our lives on the line in a deathmatch that we end up winning, it reflects poorly on the father and fucks up his reputation and the reputation of his school. B1 just seemed more tactful at the time, but I'm probably sticking with it irrationally.

This is not entirely incorrect. What you said could be right... if you were already a respected, upstanding member of the orthodox world, willing to put your reputation and life on the line to prove his guilt. If they refuse to listen to you even then, the world would think that they were too defensive of their son for even refusing to consider it. They don't respect you enough for that, unfortunately - they've known you for all of a day. Basically, as the nameless apprentice of a known eccentric you don't have enough clout to say such things and expect anyone to believe you.

But with B1, at least you spare the family the pain of even having to consider the son poisoned his own father. They might not believe the suggestion, but that does not mean hearing it won't hurt them. You keep the son's reputation clean.

Being unorthodox means that you'll always have to consider your own status and reputation when interacting with people, more so than if you had gone on the orthodox path. You don't have a noble master's reputation to fall back on, after all.

 

[Esquilax]

But with B1, at least you spare the family the pain of even having to consider the son poisoned his own father. They might not believe the suggestion, but that does not mean hearing it won't hurt them. You keep the son's reputation clean.

Being unorthodox means that you'll always have to consider your own status and reputation when interacting with people, more so than if you had gone on the orthodox path. You don't have a noble master's reputation to fall back on, after all.

Yeah, the family will never be at peace if they are wondering if their son was a murderer or not. Fuck it, let's Batman the hell out of this and hope the truth comes to light down the road. There is no need to burden them even more.

I suppose if we don't have a noble Master's reputation to fall back on - or to be reliant to - we should take the hit on this one. It truly is the most morally upright thing to do in the situation.

 

[Baltika9]

The best we can gambit on in A1 is that Junior will start pulling some really dirty aces out of his sleeves (I wouldn't be surprised if even puts poison on his sword) and Master Rong, being a Master, will judge the situation based off of that. Junior will be expected to fight with honor in this one, I'm sure.

I could go with either, honestly, but a wuxia Batman sounds awesome. Hopefully that won't hurt our chances of becoming Khan/Khagan any.

 

[ERYFKRAD]

Khan by day, TigermanKHAN by night. Fuck yeah.

 

[Baltika9]

And when he questions us on how dare we insult his family's name like that, well:
"What are you, dense? Are you retarded or something? Who the hell do you think I am? I'm the goddamn Tigerkhan!"

 

[Nevill]

From my point of view your second post is similar to that "see no evil" thing, with you condemned in my post.
Basically judging from your words you wanted to make tiger person trying to do right thing despite consequences to admit post later that its to hard to do.

The crux of my reasoning was that we cannot allow Rong Jr. live. This does not change whether I go A1 or B1.

I got the impression that in this society, that if we accuse the son of murder and we're confident enough to put our lives on the line in a deathmatch that we end up winning, it reflects poorly on the father and fucks up his reputation and the reputation of his school.

The impression is most certainly the correct one.

lease try to keep in mind that in either of the 1s we are going to try to MURDER his beloved and only child. At least with A, we look like we're trying to do what we believe is right for him and his wife. B is just a masochist's choice. Whatever reason we give, we'll be murdering his son in front of him. Short of saving his life or his wife's life (so they can have more sons?), what could justify that in a father's eyes?

edit: I mean, which of the following is more likely to piss a blindly loving father off more:
"I want to murder your son." or "Your son is a murderer."

Yup, that's pretty much it. The relationship with the parents is unsalvageable at this point. The only thing where B1 makes a difference is that we save a school from dispersal if the truth doesn't come out, at the cost of our own reputation. A masochist's choice indeed. But that is who we are:

His nature have combined with his upbringing to create a personality that will break the rules to do what he thinks is right yet kneel and accept the punishment willingly for breaking said rules.

A promising masochist, in other words.

Let's out-Ean Ean!

"What are you, dense? Are you retarded or something? Who the hell do you think I am? I'm the goddamn Tigerkhan!"

SOLD!

 

[Kipeci]

Eh, fine.

B1, I guess. We're really screwed either way, this way we have an entire martial arts school hating us, so we're doing something right.

 

[Esquilax]

Let's out-Ean Ean!

Between Ean's sacrifice at Tjaru, saving Theseus only to be stabbed in the back, and Ean's other sacrifice upon defeating Naram-Master, I'd say Jing has some ways to go. The upside here is that should we be successful, I think our relationship with Cao'er would improve even more. She's shown a lot of compassion, and I think she would appreciate our noble gesture here. We need her skills in our travels, and she needs our savvy and brawn to help her interact with the world.

However, it is interesting that you mentioned the previous CYOA...

Crown Prince Li Shun, future Emperor of the Tang, gives you a rude, juvenile gesture, smiling elegantly as he does so.
...
“Of course they do. Are you questioning my knowledge, boy? I am the Killer Physician, Yao Shunshi! Ignore my advice at your own peril.”
...
The Brazilian Slaughter mentioned Shulgi splitting into multiple people. Funny he should say that. An early draft had Shulgi actually split and manifested as all the old bastards controlling Senya's life. Shulgi, Grimrock, Azo etc...

treave, how gullible do you think we are? Shun Li? Shunshi? These names are so similar to Shulgi that they are of course split pieces of that diabolical mastermind himself. Nice try, Shulgi.

 

[ERYFKRAD]

And when he questions us on how dare we insult his family's name like that, well:
"What are you, dense? Are you retarded or something? Who the hell do you think I am? I'm the goddamn Tigerkhan!"

 

[treave]

Between Ean's sacrifice at Tjaru, saving Theseus only to be stabbed in the back, and Ean's other sacrifice upon defeating Naram-Master, I'd say Jing has some ways to go.

I think they are rather different sorts of sacrifices, actually. Ean's sacrifices had been heroic sacrifices, in the typical use of the term. The sort of actions that directly boost his reputation when heard of. As a soldier, saving a comrade in battle could be second nature to him. As a hero, giving up his own life to win wars and save the world is rather expected.

Here you are just a boy actively killing your own reputation over a husband and wife you've met barely a day, by murdering their son so that you can save them from his plots. That's a bit more twisted. Noble, yes, but extraordinary.

Be careful though that it does not lead to a messiah complex where you begin to think you absolutely have to save other people from themselves.

 

[Baltika9]

Could it be that Jing likes punishment?

 

[treave]

Could it be that Jing likes punishment?

His nature have combined with his upbringing to create a personality that will break the rules to do what he thinks is right yet kneel and accept the punishment willingly for breaking said rules.

A promising masochist, in other words.

He doesn't like it, but if he thinks he deserves it he will take the punishment without complaint. Just like in this case, he understands that resorting to killing the son will ruin his reputation. That is his punishment - or rather, the consequences - for killing, especially when you have no real evidence but your suspicions.

 

[Kipeci]

Actually, no, no B1 or A1. I vote B2.

We've given the old man another chance at life. It's blatantly obvious that his son is trying to poison him; we can tell him he was poisoned, and if he has any sense, he'll be able to figure it out. Meanwhile, we can make use of that letter and the sword for the real reason we've been out here.

 

[Baltika9]

As opposed to A1 making us more independent and selfish?

 

[treave]

As opposed to A1 making us more independent and selfish?

Your reputation takes a hit in both cases. Should you win you will be known as the killer of Songfeng's young master. There's no dodging that. Killing in A1 will be genuinely a last resort for a Xu Jing that is attempting to save the couple from their son's perceived threat.

 

[Baltika9]

I was actually inquiring about the impact on our character and philosophy. And yet you say that killing will be he genuinely last attempt, so does that mean Jing will be reluctant to actually kill him and give us a choice on whether or not to follow through?
As stated previously, I am hoping that the snake will show it's true colors in a life-or-death situation, people like him aren't likely to give up their life to a snot-nosed fifteen year old brat without using every last trick in their books. I'm wondering if A1 would give us the option to stop if that is achieved.

 

[Kipeci]

There are a lot of tragic, evil things going on everywhere in this time, we need to have more targeted heroism unless we're going to be bogged down. When we saved the Ashina princess, it was basically either that or we trashed the diplomatic mission we'd been sent on through inaction. For this mission, well, it's accomplished. He's healed, we just need to inform him that he was poisoned and warn him about future attempts. There is no need to reject all of our payment and suffer for the sake of a couple that won't even be capable of realizing how they've been benefited. If we can convince the father to allow his son a more active role, the poisoning might actually be averted... well, maybe not, but recall that we have no evidence any way. It's not really just of us to go in half-cocked when we really don't have any idea what's going on and kill the son. If the son is just a pawn in someone else's game (where did he get that fancy poison?) then we will at most have delayed the inevitable offing of the master while slaughtering his only son and heir over some really, really soft evidence.

A part of our mission is to infiltrate pugilistic sects, remember? I don't think anyone approaching orthodox is going to want us to stray near them if we've cultivated a reputation for slaughtering the heir of a sect rather arbitrarily. I know that a significant sections of the Codex says 'YOLO, we went unorthodox so we may as well go all the way!' but that's going to really ruin our prospects in the future for basically nothing.

 

[Esquilax]

Your reputation takes a hit in both cases. Should you win you will be known as the killer of Songfeng's young master. There's no dodging that. Killing in A1 will be genuinely a last resort for a Xu Jing that is attempting to save the couple from their son's perceived threat.

So does this imply that in B1 we won't be holding back? Against this guy, I fear that holding back is going to mean that we're dead. He's just better than us, no way around that, so we need every edge that we can get.

 

[treave]

Your reputation takes a hit in both cases. Should you win you will be known as the killer of Songfeng's young master. There's no dodging that. Killing in A1 will be genuinely a last resort for a Xu Jing that is attempting to save the couple from their son's perceived threat.

So does this imply that in B1 we won't be holding back? Against this guy, I fear that holding back is going to mean that we're dead. He's just better than us, no way around that, so we need every edge that we can get.

There's no issue of holding back, or being reluctant, or thinking about sparing him, once you've set your mind to it, either in A1 or B1. You're not sure if you'll even be in a position to hold back or have the opportunity to be merciful. When it comes right down to it, Jing is a killer. You don't get to be groomed as the prince's most trusted operative without losing your squeamishness about slitting throats that need slitting. When he is Emperor, you would be the one who does all his dirty work. You already are, in a sense.

 

[Nevill]

treave, how gullible do you think we are? Shun Li? Shunshi? These names are so similar to Shulgi that they are of course split pieces of that diabolical mastermind himself. Nice try, Shulgi.

In the previous playthrough, when people ran out of arguments they appealed to their last ace in the sleeve - "But what if Shulgi was hiding under our bed all along and we are just dancing in his palm"? The sad part is that they actually managed to sway votes from time to time. I am so hoping we can put the old man to a well-deserved rest already.

Unfortunately, we have a new boogeyman to fill this role. Now, he is truly everywhere.

Our luck is the new Shulgi.

 

[treave]

I believe an A1 victory is inevitable at this point?

 

[Nevill]

If Esquilax has abandoned the thought of B1, I don't see anyone else rallying the people behind it. I assume so.

 

[treave]

Victory for A1 it is, then. Oh boy.