[LP CYOA] 傳

[Cassidy]

B

Pretending to yield can go totally wrong while the other technique seems too complicated.

 

[XenomorphII]

B

 

[Baltika9]

No, if the only way to survive is to turn into a dishonorable scumbag, let Jing die a TigerBRO. But let's not have fear cloud our judgement and think about how to win, instead of how not to die.

B is attempting to outplay an experienced swordsman at his own game. You've only studied the first page of the manual for one night, and observed the technique in combat for a little while, yet now you think that you know it all? Rong Jr. have studied this style since his birth, what are your chances of stumbling upon the perfect counter? It was already shown that he can mix and match styles, what if he changes his Songfeng pattern to a swift and lethal Huashan one in mid-lunge? With this choice, you are certain that can counter one, but not the other. He also knows Qinggong, which might allow him to dodge your decisive strike. Making an opening to lure the opponent based on a hunch that you have no real basis for is not just risky, it's suicidal.

Because he's getting impulsive and erratic, as the update so clearly stated, which can work both ways. Either he'll be easily provoked into doing what we want him to do (Jing's CHA and Speech scores may actually be sufficient) or he'll go for a completely reckless attack that we didn't prepare for and skewer us.

B

Pretending to yield can go totally wrong while the other technique seems too complicated.

Well, to be fair, A has us working with an advanced stage of a technique that we already know, while B we will be making up a completely new technique on the spot.
I actually like the sound of that. B.

 

[Nevill]

No, if the only way to survive is to turn into a dishonorable scumbag, let Jing die a TigerBRO.

I understand that. But I remember Rong Jr's eagerness to provide us with his 'escort', his charming personal traits, the fact that he is a murderous snake - and I see nothing dishonorable in ridding the world of his existence in whatever way possible. We are not trying to impress the parents with the way we murder their son, and he certainly does not appreciate us fighting fairly, instead considering it our weakness.

I take it as treave's way of saying "you wanted to be practical in combat - now we'll see if you really did mean it."

In fact, might I remind you of this post, specifically "why deny ourselves an advantage like that in the future" part? How is what I am proposing different from "willing to poison an evil, daring bandit beyond his ability to defeat by force of arms"?

 

[Baltika9]

Yes, well I'm against poison so that doesn't quite do it for me and there's a difference between being a pragmatist and a scumbag. Besides which, C really will be more trouble than it's worth down the line: you think word won't get out of our conduct in this duel? I'd much rather people hear "Yeah, that Jing fellow is a total dick, but he thinks quickly on his feet and comes up with surprising solutions," rather than "Total dishonorable prick, will stab you in the back when you least expect it. Do not trust, ever."

Edit:

I take it as treave's way of saying "you wanted to be practical in combat - now we'll see if you really did mean it."

Or it could be "how low are you willing to sink for survival?" Or he could just be giving us a huge scare and goading us into making a dumb mistake. We won't know until the next update.
In any event, I have faith in Jing's INT scores.

 

[Nevill]

Well, my mindset comes from my belief that 2 of the choices are dead ends, horrible pun intended. That means that "how to win" and "how not to die" are one and the same for me.

The choice is not easy, but what is that we try to accomplish here? I don't know about you, but I didn't come to the ring with concerns of my reputation in mind. Remember that I was ready to flop to B1 and be known as a kid that goes back on his word and murders others for "teh evulz".

Yes, well I'm against poison so that doesn't quite do it for me and there's a difference between being a pragmatist and a scumbag.

You would be a scumbag if you tried this on Rong Sr. On the guy that wanted to snuff you along with an underage girl, I call this street justice.

 

[Baltika9]

Keep in mind, though, that Jing is pretty tired right now. Attempting high-level shit when you're in that state isn't the brightest of ideas, though it could be doable.

 

[Nevill]

Also he may just dodge or parry it and then we're fucked.

Dodging I can understand, but how do you parry a dagger?

C would be playing his personal quirks against him. Without his combat cunning, he is a worthless pile of vices, and the moment he thinks the fight is over will mark his downfall, if he doesn't go straight for the kill. And I have ample reason to believe he wouldn't.

Or he could just be giving us a huge scare and goading us into making a dumb mistake. We won't know until the next update.

Well, I am scared already by what I've seen. And I don't do it often.

 

[Kashmir Slippers]

B

This is pretty much it for us. A lot for people voted for wandering on our own way back when so that we could build our own fighting style. This is our chance. Do I think it will work? No. Do I think it will get us killed? Probably. Do I want there to be at least some consistency with our votes so that I can feel that the character is somewhat believable? Yes.

We took this road to try to become a skilled, yet unorthodox fighter. We didn't want Jing to become a backstabbing bandit in the first place, so there is no reason for us to want him to become one now. C is right out. I would rather our character die before dropping to that low.

A just seems to weird.

Besides, if we somehow manage to win (somehow) with B, it might help our name get out there. "Oh Xu Jing, the boy who defeated the Songfeng Style on his own," or something like that. It might help us save a little face from this ridiculous hole that we have dug for ourselves.

 

[Nevill]

We didn't want Jing to become a backstabbing bandit in the first place, so there is no reason for us to want him to become one now.

Backstabbing bandit, eh? We've seen bandits with our own eyes. Could you tell me how many innocents Jing had murdered and raped already? How is C of any indication he is going to do it any time soon?

The word does not mean what you think it means. I'd rather not throw it around without a good reason.

It might help us save a little face from this ridiculous hole that we have dug for ourselves.

Can you provide a way how it could have turned any different when we chose Songfeng? I mean, except for willingly leaving the old man to die. That would have been most honorable.

Do I want there to be at least some consistency with our votes so that I can feel that the character is somewhat believable? Yes.

Oh, absolutely. What would be more believable for our character than to end his life by overemphasizing fair play in a fight with a random thug to the point of being stupid? It fits perfectly!

 

[Kashmir Slippers]

If we try to off this guy with a hidden dagger in a sanctioned duel in front of his dad, the master of his particular style, and all of the disciples, do you think anyone is going to want to have anything to do with us? As of right now we are highly unorthodox, but breaking the terms of the duel and using such ridiculously underhanded tactics will probably ruin our chances at anyone in the pugilistic world ever trusting us again. There would be little else to go.

The hole comes from us challenging an older, more experienced, more trained fighter to a fight that we had no idea if we could even match, let alone win. We had an option to bow out honorably and take the sword and recommendation to possibly get us in with some other people. Sure, we may have made an enemy, but we would have been alive and in relative control. Now we are half-dead and forced to choose between three equally chancy and dangerous options. I know that treave is writing this to make it interesting, but I can't help but think that almost every choice that we have made since the end of the prologue has been making us slide further and further down into unrecoverable danger.

 

[Grimgravy]

I don't like this situation. It was arrogant to challenge this guy. He has more experience and it wasn't really our business. Senior Rong is an adult who can make his own decisions and mistakes. It should have been no skin off our back if he chose to ignore a warning and got himself poisoned again.

A plays to out character strengths. Let's try it.

 

[Nevill]

The hole comes from us challenging an older, more experienced, more trained fighter to a fight that we had no idea if we could even match, let alone win. We had an option to bow out honorably and take the sword and recommendation to possibly get us in with some other people. Sure, we may have made an enemy, but we would have been alive and in relative control.

Yes, we could have willingly let him murder his unsuspecting family, and let innocents die. That is a-ok with you - a safe, wise choice. But offing the said murderer when you know he is about to overwhelm you (and then continue with his killing spree) with a backhanded tactics - that's disgusting! You'd rather die than stoop that low.

Didn't you promote moral consistency just a while ago?

 

[Baltika9]

My main gripe with A is that, should we fail, we're left with a fist in a swordfight.

I know that treave is writing this to make it interesting, but I can't help but think that almost every choice that we have made since the end of the prologue has been making us slide further and further down into unrecoverable danger.

Try "since the beginning of the LP."
:justasplanned:

 

[Esquilax]

Nevill, the situation is obviously complicated. I think that we're somewhat in the right morally, but we did cause a huge shitstorm. The question is whether it's really worth the bullshit, and honestly, I'm not sure it is. I flopped to A1 because I figured B1 wouldn't win, but perhaps I should have stuck to my guns so that we would get even more hate.

Any duel held with an orthodox school would usually abide by the usual rules of the pugilistic world, which are no killing if possible, no hidden projectiles, no poisoning, no hiding your buddies in the bushes for an ambush. That sorta thing.

Obviously the killing rule would have to be waived here.

All sorts of weapons are allowed except hidden poisoned darts and the like. Even thrown weapons are usually okay as long as it is known that you use them, and they aren't poisoned.

Okay, so having a hidden dagger is clearly breaking the rules here - or if it isn't, it is very close. Even if you want to go full-asshole, we cannot do this shit on their home turf, that is insane. There's another problem with C: at this point in the fight, Rong has become way too tentative and timid, while we're very focused. This is pretty much a perfect time for an aggressive move because he's not all there at this point - look at any fighter who's a great finisher with a sharp killer instinct in boxing or MMA (i.e. Jose Aldo) and you'll notice that they are very good at going after an opponent who is hurt or not confident in themselves. I know, this isn't the real world, but I believe that the same principles apply here.

For me, it's a choice between A and B.

Rong steps back, suddenly wary. Though the arrogant look has not been wiped off his face, there is a hint of fear in his eyes. You just smile at him. From the way he acts, you can tell that he has not truly killed a man before, at least not with his own hands. If he succeeds here, you would be his first.

Okay, so after he switched his sword technique from the Songfeng style to a different Huashan style, he started fighting more aggressively. Now he seems to notice that we're relaxed, yet he's gotten a lot more timid. If he were swinging his sword wildly at us and coming after Jing aggressively, I would be all for trying to sidestep and counter him, but right now A seems to be the right move: or it would be, if we didn't have shitty throwing skills. B seems to fit in with our aptitudes a lot better - sure, we would be making up a technique on the fly, but Jing is a clever fighter who is faster than his opponent. The real issue would be in forcing him to come at us aggressively, so that we could bait him into overextending - he doesn't seem to want to do that.

Still thinking about it, leaning towards B. However, the advantage in A is that it is an aggressive move that would take advantage of his mental state at this moment in time; the problem is that we can't throw for shit to set it up. On the flipside, B depends on him going back to his Songfeng style, which he may not do.

 

[Nevill]

Nevill, the situation is obviously complicated.

Heh, wouldn't I know it. I do try to weigh the consequences of my choices, though.

Even if you want to go full-asshole, we cannot do this shit on their home turf, that is insane.

I am pretty sure we'll get away with it. Breaking the rules of the duel is one thing, but it isn't an ordinary duel - it is also the price that the Killing Physician claims, and it needs to be paid. A life would have been lost anyway.

They'll hate us guts, of that I am certain about.

There's another problem with C: at this point in the fight, Rong has become way too tentative and timid, while we're very focused.

Yeah, not sure what to make out of that. If he continued his frenzy, I would have voted B, but as of now I just can't find it in myself to bank Jing's life on it.

C, though, has even more chances of working than ever, now that he is hesitant to kill us.

However, the advantage in A is that it is an aggressive move that would take advantage of his mental state at this moment in time; the problem is that we can't throw for shit to set it up. On the flipside, B depends on him going back to his Songfeng style, which he may not do.

To me, A and B look like this:

 

[The Brazilian Slaughter]

Still thinking about it, leaning towards B. However, the advantage in A is that it is an aggressive move that would take advantage of his mental state at this moment in time; the problem is that we can't throw for shit to set it up. On the flipside, B depends on him going back to his Songfeng style, which he may not do.

Look my post:

A: A AG (7) + ST (8) + unarmed (2) + Shadow Wolf Step (2) +Qinggong (1) + Duancao attack (1)
(I think we're just throwing the sword to distract him)

B: This is ST (8) + AG (7) + Sword (2), possibly (IN) and (PE)

C: Sword + AG (7) + PE (8).
A taps mostly into skills we have and already used before. We're fast enough to kick him, we're strong enough to hurt him, we have enough shadow step and sneak to step out of his sight for a momment while he focus on our blade coming his way.

My problem with B is that we're trying to fight orthodox-style, sword-to-sword, against a superior swordman, hoping that a fearful, erratic enemy is going to use the same attack he did once. If he switches moves we're beat.

 

[Baltika9]

Don't forget that we're also using Speech (2) and CHA (7) to goad him into an attack with B.
Although you're right in that it will be more reliable to use moves familiar to us.

 

[Nevill]

A taps mostly into skills we have and already used before. We're fast enough to kick him, we're strong enough to hurt him, we have enough shadow step and sneak to step out of his sight for a momment while he focus on our blade coming his way.

It aslo suggests you would be trying to kill him with one move and I don't see anything about further plans. You said it yourself that you do not expect to kill him. So what is going to be the next step once it fails and you find yourself without a weapon?

Or do you seriously think Jing as he is now is able to kill with a single unarmed strike?

At least in B you will be striking Rong Jr. with a sword that actually has a chance of killing him once it connects. But B has its own problems.

 

[Baltika9]

To be fair, Jing already knows where and how he should strike.

As he grows wilder, you grow calmer.

After all, that is the state of mind they taught you to hold when you need to kill.

You remember being instructed to memorize the points of least resistance where you can stab a man. You remember being forced to practice on bound prisoners. Again, and again, and again, until the flow of blood over your hands becomes natural and you could do it without hesitation. Well, you do not dwell on that much nowadays - it is an unneeded memory. The fear of killing has already been removed from your spirit.
...

A. You attempt a high level Duancao technique, one you have read about but have not even begun training. You will throw your sword at him as a distraction, and then run right at him. Using your Yinglang Step you will dart out of his vision at the last minute, and then swiftly kick him in three spots in the abdomen - the points of zhizheng, tianxi and taixi. By hitting these three pressure points with the force of a kick, you should be able to kill him instantly.

Can we spook him enough, though? The good thing about A is that it has an active mindset, while B is really passive and gives the enemy a chance to recover from his stupor.

 

[Nevill]

To be fair, Jing already knows where and how he should strike.

Rank 1 - You have a basic grasp of this skill; at least you know what it is about, if not what you should be doing.
Rank 2 - You understand what you should be doing, but you are not very good at doing it.
Qinggong (Light Body Skill) - 1/7
Pressure Points - 2/5

Sure he know where to strike. Can he actually do it, and would you wager his life on it?

 

[Baltika9]

He has enough strength, manual dexteirity and just enough stamina left (remember, he's rather tired right now) to actually score a hit. If we could use that skill at rank 1 to confuse the psycho ninja chick, rank 2 should give us an edge here. This guy never faced a technique like this.
B leaves us in a horrible position if our gambit fails, we'll still have a sword, but not the energy to use it and he'll have the advantage back. He's scared and distracted right now, facing a killer. Might as well go all the way with the bluff and make him react like prey. 'Tis the way of the Tiger-Wolf!


Yeah, it's all or nothing. What do you guys think?

 

[Nevill]

He has enough strength, manual dexteirity and just enough stamina left (remember, he's rather tired right now) to actually score a hit. If we could use that skill at rank 1 to confuse the psycho ninja chick, rank 2 should give us an edge here. This guy never faced a technique like this.

Alright, he scores a hit, he confuses the opponent. Then what? I won't believe Jing can kill anybody by hitting pressure points, not yet. If the plan is to stun him, or force him into unarmed combat, why go for an a priori impossible move and try to kill him?

B leaves us in a horrible position if our gambit fails.

I'm pretty sure it leaves you dead, since you will specifically be leaving an opening, and failing to defend does not bode well for your health.

Might as well go all the way with the bluff and make him react like prey.

Right. He is afraid to kill you, that means he is afraid of YOU.

*Sigh*. It's "FUCK IT, YOLO" all over again.

 

[Baltika9]

You remember being instructed to memorize the points of least resistance where you can stab a man. You remember being forced to practice on bound prisoners. Again, and again, and again, until the flow of blood over your hands becomes natural and you could do it without hesitation. Well, you do not dwell on that much nowadays - it is an unneeded memory. The fear of killing has already been removed from your spirit.

Rong steps back, suddenly wary. Though the arrogant look has not been wiped off his face, there is a hint of fear in his eyes. You just smile at him. From the way he acts, you can tell that he has not truly killed a man before, at least not with his own hands. If he succeeds here, you would be his first.

He's afraid of the situation. Here he is kicking our ass, yet there we are, taking it in stride and smiling back, that is not the reaction of a victim. We can use this to intimidate him and make him panic. I believe Esquilax posted this a while back:
And it may be applied in this situation. He's the fighter here, though, so I'd like his input.

 

[Nevill]

All right. So what is the right choice, then? I'd take impossible over suicidal, personally, and that means A. If only we set our goals lower, it would probably be a superior choice.

I am not trying to sway your vote or anything, but I just have to ask. Let's withdraw ourselves from consequenses, reputation concerns and other external factors, and take only morality into consideration. Do you find preventing another crime by a known poisoner (who is known to be rotten to the core, who would kill both you and the girl accompaniyng you in a blink of an eye for his own goals, who had you falsely accused, who had promised you that he will kill you as well, who has zero respect for fighting integrity) by an underhanded method - of a sort that you can only utilize once he approaches to take your life, no less - morally reprehensible? In all honesty?

I am utterly confused when people call my character a bandit and a scumbag for putting an end to a rabid dog. I know what it looks like for the onlookers, but between the character and God or whatever there is, does he commit a sin/unjust act by doing that?

 

[Kashmir Slippers]

"Beware that, when fighting monsters, you yourself do not become a monster... for when you gaze long into the abyss. The abyss gazes also into you.” - Nietzsche

I just like the quote, so don't take it the wrong way, but I think that it makes the point well enough.

We don't actually know anything about the son, though. We also don't even know that he was behind the poisoning. It is quite possible, but we have no definite proof. There is also no proof that he would kill Cao'er either. You going into this moral hypothetical is really quite fallacious. It assumes all these unknowns and deigns that we are on some sort of detached moral exemption.

Besides it doesn't matter what we, the reader, think of the situation, it matters what the onlookers would think. Pulling a hidden dagger violates the nature of the formal duel. It being formal is just about the only thing keeping us from being thrown out or having our throats slit. I am even afraid that if we were to use the dagger and kill the guy, then his father would sick his disciples on us for murder, since it wasn't part of the agreed duel. There isn't a guarantee that we would be able to kill him with the dagger if we tried to do so.

I think that it is interesting that you think that we are overgeneralizing your choice when you are doing the exact same for us.