[LP CYOA] Epic

[a cut of domestic sheep prime]

And as long as we're going nuts with theories...here's mine:
I don't know how, but somehow the royal bloodline is the real Ean. That's part of the watchers want the prince dead and they want us to do it...for some reason... By choosing B we'll be choosing temporarily or permanently to side under the real Ean - as the choice mentions not wanting to be top dog, only second.

There's my crazy theory...

One could even take it a step further and say that everyone the watchers have had us kill were somehow a part of the real Ean. The father was Ean's kindness and generosity, killing our former lover was like killing Ean's ability to love, killing the prince would be killing Ean's trusting nature, and the Emp himself, Ean's libido? I don't know. I just think it's interesting that the watchers want US to kill people. They've never killed anyone themselves.

 

[Tigranes]

I don't think that makes much sense, unfortunately. You could do that then say every kind person related to Dio is Ean, etc. And they're offering to kill people now, at least, and it made sense for us to be the ones to knock off dad, etc.

 

[a cut of domestic sheep prime]

I don't think that makes much sense, unfortunately. You could do that then say every kind person related to Dio is Ean, etc. And they're offering to kill people now, at least, and it made sense for us to be the ones to knock off dad, etc.

Um... When did they offer to kill anyone - on their own, I mean? All they offered was to accompany us. Maybe they'll help out and maybe not...

Let's take my theory a bit further even... What if they are the sword and can't kill without Ean's - or a piece of Ean's - permission/involvement - or maybe can't kill because they are a part of Ean, everyone in this world - or at least the major players - are a part of Ean, and we are Ean's hunger - always greedy, a murder by nature?

edit: again, not saying I think this is true, just exploring the possibility.

Last update said they will assassinate a bunch of people, but we'll have to take one too, and they'll help us do that. Also, they never told us to get our fiancee killed, or to kill Aodh.

No...they said they've prepared ways to remove obstacles from our path, but weren't specific. They seemed to imply that they'd assissinate someone, but didn't actually say it. They just said that we "had a target for assassination, too." and then told us who to kill. Again.

It's true they didn't tell us to kill our fiance, but the watcher was quite pleased by it. Also, Aodh is a watcher and is somehow different. I'm not 100% sure what that means, but for some reason he can't be killed and that may not necessarily mean he's like us exactly...

Anyway, all conjecture, as you said.

edit3: It also has no effect on my vote above.

 

[Tigranes]

Last update said they will assassinate a bunch of people, but we'll have to take one too, and they'll help us do that. Also, they never told us to get our fiancee killed, or to kill Aodh.

So sure it could be true, but if we go that far into conjecture anything could be.

 

[treave]

Ah, I had already considered this. I believe that he hasn't taken more permanent measures against us because the Prince still believes that we're innocent. He can't just off us while the evidence is really shaky and we're under house arrest. It'll come off as an incredibly obvious plot to kill a loyal up-and-coming nobleman who was becoming very close to the prince. Once he does that, it'll cast suspicion on his entire Watcher network. So Aodh's move is to either bait us into committing a crime, or bide his time to fabricate evidence and get rid of us that way."

Ah, but you see...

Think about it, he was in the north on assignment, he was nowhere near us, nor was he assigned to investigate our activities. If he you die disappear mysteriously, there's nothing to connect us beyond a bit of dislike between the two of us. There might be a bit of suspicion, but nothing solid.

The Prince is more fond of Aodh than he is of Dio... One or two deaths disappearances can be passed off as tragedies unexplainable incidents...

Given Runikylos's nature, you could make a good argument that he wouldn't suspect Aodh having a hand in your disappearance anymore than he currently suspects you of actually throwing the poor guy off the fifth floor. Some other poor faction opposed to Runikylos would probably get the blame.



Well, it's not fair of me to be engaging in this discussion too deeply, so that's as much as I should be saying about this topic. You do raise an important point of things not being as they seem, but as to what they actually are, well, I do enjoy the speculation and how close it sometimes comes to the truth.

 

[Azira]

Bugger this for a lark. Time to say no. I vote

C

 

[Smashing Axe]

B

 

[oscar]

From a meta point of view, Runikylos is beneficial for the empire and possibly just what it needs to overcome its stagnation. Plus these guys do not seem to legitimately believe in us as Ean reincarnated.

B

 

[Arpad]

C. B

 

[treave]

D: I'm almost tempted to 'use the old method' that is apparently compromised and see what happens. Worst case: it was compromised indeed, and the bad watchers appear, but if they wanted to kill us with their ninja-fu they would have done it already, so what can they do? Best case: this guy is the liar and the 'compromised method' actually brings us the real watcher.

I was half-joking but I actually can't see the downside here, there clearly is something fishy going on so A is out, but B seems kind of drastic. What do you guys think?

Ah, let me address this one. It's a good thing to try, but I don't want to spend the time of an update on this particular action, so I'll just tell you what happens if you try it.

No one comes.

It could be because it was indeed compromised, but the watchers know that you have already been in contact with the enemy, so they are wary it's an ambush and do not show up. It could also be because it wasn't compromised at all, but due to some circumstances, they are unable to respond, such as being pressured and slowly smoked out by the enemy watchers. Might want to keep an eye on the news for an increase in cases of accidental defenestration over the past week and coming week, not including your own case.

 

[TOME]

B

 

[Helly]

B

 

[ScubaV]

B

 

[Azira]

If you really have no idea what you're doing, you really should not be voting at all.

 

[Esquilax]

Look, I realize that this situation has caught us off-guard, but Azira is right... even if that dog is adorable. This is the exact same problem that we had back during the rift. Instead of thinking about shit, most voters just reacted to events as they unfolded because they were in that "oh shit, what are we going to do?!" mindset. You know why Smashing Axe's theory of bandwagoning is usually correct? It's because people rely on groupthink to make choices instead of talking shit over, and that's why we get fucked. So just relax for a second

Well, treave gave us a few breadcrumbs, and there are a lot of questions here. I think I have some ideas:

1) What's going on with the Watchers?

I believe that the Watchers are split up into three groups: (1) Loyalists, who are Aodh's people supporting the prince, (2) Usurpers, Dio's Watchers, and the wild card (3) Separatists. I believe that there is a Scanian splinter group among the Watchers in the north who have been supporting Jannik Inge:

Then, there had been the explosion at the Great Wall of Korinthos. It had been unbreached for more than a thousand years, but just three weeks ago, someone blew a big hole in it. Initial investigations suggested they had used a new mixture of firepowder. The culprit was captured by a young recruit that had the luck to survive the explosion. It turns out that the culprit was a member of the Cult of the Returned Emperor, another cult that thought the Emperor Ean was back.

“I thought the First Emperor liked the wall?” you mutter, looking at the reports. They were a cult that was centered mainly in the north, believing that the Emperor had reincarnated in their leader, a man named Jannik Inge. Sources had it that they were funded by Free Scania, who sought to use the cult to undermine the Empire and regain control of Skane. “You did send someone to investigate them, right?”

“Yes, I did. You met Aodh when he returned last week; he was my representative on that investigation. Unfortunately, the sabotage of the wall hadn’t taken place when he was sent out, so we didn’t put too much priority on attempting to capture the cultists.”

This tells me that they must have had someone on the inside working with them. Blowing up the wall, getting funding from Free Scania - I think that this all points to another faction within the Watchers. This was only thwarted because they didn't take into account that another superhuman would be there to stop the plot.

2) Can we trust this new Watcher?

Well, if this is our guy, and I now think it might be, it would make sense.
I don't know. He might be new, but that doesn't mean that he isn't one of our guys. Let's compare the story that Aodh gave us with the story that this new guy is giving us:

"I do not need to prove anything, but if you require, I can tell a tale about the sins you have committed. The letter we helped send to your father, how his own dagger found its way into his breast, why your fiancee actually hung herself... and of course, the memories and powers you have been developing."
...
After a moment of silence, Aodh speaks in a hushed tone. “I know what happened to Velius Camna.”
...
“I-I-I spent some time looking into things after we met. After that, I can probably piece together everything that happened if I need to. The medicine itself would already be damning of your intentions!”

Interesting. Look at the discrepancy. This Watcher knows exactly how and when we murdered our way to the top, but look at Aodh's description of events; far less detail. Aodh still hasn't pieced everything together, which tells me that the new masked man might be legit. New Guy is also telling us that our Watcher died, which I believe 100% regardless of his allegiance. These guys are trained to withstand interrogation, and when you combine that with the religious fanaticism ingrained in them over 3,000 years, that means that the operative would sooner die than rat us out.

3) Okay, well... why aren't we dead yet?

If this is our guy, of course we aren't dead.

If it isn't, then I'm not sure. I am fairly certain that there's a third faction of Watchers in support of Jannik Inge, but why would Aodh need us dead to root them out? Maybe just to pin the deed on them to cover up our murder if we decide to stick around. Very tough choice.

 

[TOME]

If we vote for C, what happens to Runikylos? He gets killed by two watchers? The reason I'm voting B, is to be there to stop the assassination. There might not be an attempt to his life if we vote C, but I'm not taking chances.

The point of this chapter is not to make Dio a new emperor, it is to discover what happened to Ean and how to regain control of him. On that note, we shouldn't be focusing our efforts to watcher's war. I think we should keep Runikylos alive and gain his trust. He has shown to be trusting and honorable man and will most likely help us if we trust him. But should he die, what happens then? How is the death of the heir going to affect the Empire when watchers aren't protecting it's interest?

 

[Computer Gamer Refugee]

Something, something, groupthink.

I agree with Esquilax,

Voting C

 

[a cut of domestic sheep prime]

If we vote for C, what happens to Runikylos? He gets killed by two watchers? The reason I'm voting B, is to be there to stop the assassination. There might not be an attempt to his life if we vote C, but I'm not taking chances.

The point of this chapter is not to make Dio a new emperor, it is to discover what happened to Ean and how to regain control of him. On that note, we shouldn't be focusing our efforts to watcher's war. I think we should keep Runikylos alive and gain his trust. He has shown to be trusting and honorable man and will most likely help us if we trust him. But should he die, what happens then? How is the death of the heir going to affect the Empire when watchers aren't protecting it's interest?

This.

We don't know what's going on yet, and I don't see how we're going to learn what is going on by sitting in a cell and waiting for a trial that will most certainly be unfair. Plus, if we sit back and do nothing, we risk these watchers or the other "Eans" doing more damage in the mean time.

 

[ScubaV]

Btw treave, I think you messed up a little on the dialogue. Once he got caught, Dio should have said "Once again, the First Emperor sees fit to ram cock in fucking ass!!!"

Haha, I can't let this Spartacus reference go unrecognized.

And I agree with Tome and Lambchop. Although I don't particularly like the way B is phrased, I don't want us to sit on our hands with C. Furthermore, this masked man is being a little too vague for someone who is supposed to be our follower. They're supposed to be trying to restore Ean and they tell us that we are him and yet they presume to direct our actions without giving us any details. B not only repudiates their plotting it should also put them in their proper place if they truly do believe Dio is Ean and respect him as such.

 

[Esquilax]

Why do we want to stop the assassination, first of all, assuming that this guy is who he says he is? If this Watcher is one of our own, why wouldn't we want to assassinate the prince? Our character doesn't really give a fuck about the prince, and would only protect him to save his own ass. Just because we're given the option to actively do something doesn't mean that it's the wisest choice. Besides, our powers and memories first arose upon our encounter with the masked man. Further encounters with the masked man and the revealing of history will unlock our powers and memories.

If we vote for C, what happens to Runikylos? He gets killed by two watchers? The reason I'm voting B, is to be there to stop the assassination. There might not be an attempt to his life if we vote C, but I'm not taking chances.

The point of this chapter is not to make Dio a new emperor, it is to discover what happened to Ean and how to regain control of him. On that note, we shouldn't be focusing our efforts to watcher's war. I think we should keep Runikylos alive and gain his trust. He has shown to be trusting and honorable man and will most likely help us if we trust him. But should he die, what happens then? How is the death of the heir going to affect the Empire when watchers aren't protecting it's interest?

Yes, that's the point somewhere down the road, but how is that relevant now? I think you're asking the wrong questions here and approaching the situation in entirely the wrong way. Diogenes has momentarily gotten himself in over his head, and now our main concern is how to unfuck ourselves. We don't know anything and we're a long way from reviving Ean, so I don't see how that's relevant to our immediate circumstances.

You should think of yourselves as a courtier in some Renaissance court, but you're trying to shoehorn Dio into becoming the guy that protects the Empire, and it doesn't fit. This isn't to say that there aren't good arguments for B, but "LET'S SAVE THE EMPIRE!!!" isn't one of them, nor does it make sense with our character.

So again, the relevant question is this, that I have heard no one else bother to answer: Is this Watcher ours or Aodh's? I haven't heard anybody really talk or speculate about whether or not these Watchers are loyal to us.

"To eventually obtain you the throne, Master Ean. We have learnt that the rural madman is planning to assault the capital in five nights. Daring and mad, but that is not unexpected. In the confusion, we will have prepared ways to remove the obstacles in your path."

"I suppose all I have to do is sit here while you murder all of my rivals?"

"Unfortunately, that will not do, Master Ean. We do need you to lead us and show us your strength. You have a target for assassination too, and we will help you achieve it."

In any case, I highly doubt that the watchers could achieve their little trick without our aid. How would they? Even if they are our guys, Aodh's people have revealed the conspiracy and they'll be prepared for assassination attempts.

Also, none of you B voters are thinking long-term. Okay, so let's say that these Watchers are Aodh's and we kill them. Then we have yet another problem where we have to explain this shit to Runikylos. We don't know exactly what he knows, so if we reveal one detail too many, he's going to finally wise up and realize we're a traitor. What do you intend to tell him?

Then there's another problem - let's say that these guys are Dio's. They support us, but I feel that ScubaV is indulging in a lot of wishful thinking if he thinks that we could get away with killing two of our own supporters scot-free. We may have some support as God-Emperor in certain quarters, but it's nowhere near airtight. If we kill our own supporters, they may turn away from us, and we'll be left completely isolated. This would be a Pyrrhic victory for us, at best.

Sitting back could be the right call precisely because we don't know what's going on yet. Why would you take action when you know nothing about the situation?

 

[a cut of domestic sheep prime]

Hmm. Flopping to C.

Esquilax is right. We don't know what's going on. Personally I don't think the watchers are truly on our side, but if these "supporters" of ours actually are our supporters, we could end up screwing ourselves in a big way by killing them. If they are using us, C may reveal that (though it will still leave us captured...).

C is the safer choice.

Safer isn't always better.

Besides, anyone who wants a twat like Dio on the throne, any throne, is not someone I'd trust.

And this line is all I need to flop back to B.

 

[Bloodshifter]

Snip

Esquilax brings up a good point we in the end INTEND to place Ean's ass upon the Golden Throne BUT
1. Can we trust La Watchers?

2. What do they get from this if we ARE Ean *revived* where is the Immortal Party / Gieloth Congress you would think that being the Watchers they would scurry off to Sek or Edem*whatever his blasted name is*​

3. If we are simply a seat warmer would Ean mind the fact we committed Murder on one of his many offspring?
4. And then went and take his big boy seat?
5. Could this 'watcher' actually be an enemy who we confirmed the rumors of how we got our power and are secretly attempting to kill us / caught us in the act of stabbing the prince? *We did kill Adoh and now he knows about our 'help' instant game over?*
6.Paranoia OVER 9000!

out of our Options I like none at all

with or without the Watchers help we will still survive which in my book puts us in a nice location even without us the Empire can flourish if we keep the Prince Alive *and him being our puppet would be nice*

A-Would lead to the ROAD OF EMPEROR *2nd choice for me we tend to go "FOR TEH LULZ LEROY JENKINS" a few times too often to work on our Empire in a large scale [god I love Time skips]*

B-Prince's Shadow (10%) / Exiled Noble (20%) / Prisoner to Foreign Power (40%) / Death Row (30%) *1st Despite the risk I would like to try if we failed we have a good chance to simply disappear into the darkness / get nabbed by a foreign power*

C-Abide by the Rules for now *3rd get exiled 100%; unless we get watcher bail*

Edit: now my Logic is forcing me to rethink this...
Flopping over to C
No need to worry about the Future too much all in all we pretty much are guranteed an "Ean Is Back MAH Tentacle and Immortal Peepz"

 

[Esquilax]

Well Lambchop19, I'm not entirely sure about C either, but I do think that we need to approach this situation with the right type of thinking, otherwise, we're going to get fucked over badly. That means we approach it with the mindset of "How do we get out of this mess?", instead of "How are we going to save the Empire?" That would certainly be a start.

First, let's try to ascertain the allegiance of this Watcher. The points in favour are this:

“I-I-I spent some time looking into things after we met. After that, I can probably piece together everything that happened if I need to. The medicine itself would already be damning of your intentions!”
...
"I do not need to prove anything, but if you require, I can tell a tale about the sins you have committed. The letter we helped send to your father, how his own dagger found its way into his breast, why your fiancee actually hung herself... and of course, the memories and powers you have been developing."

There's a discrepancy in the two stories. Aodh knows that we killed Velius and Thania through his telepathy, but he doesn't really know the hows yet. So, not enough to convict us unless he fabricates things. However, the level of detail that the Watcher had regarding our actions indicates some familiarity with us. So yeah, he might actually be legit.

The points against him being one of ours are (1) him being someone else. His eagerness to kill Runikylos ASAP could probably be explained by the fact that they have only a narrow window of opportunity for the assassination during the madman's assault on the capital. I'm actually beginning to strongly consider A because this guy could actually be ours.

This is a difficult choice, and I predict the following outcomes:

A1 (Watchers are Dio's): Huge success. New Emperor.
A2 (Watchers are Aodh's): Catastrophic failure. Dio on death row.

B1 (Watchers are Dio's): Pyrrhic victory at best. We earn the prince's support, and now every single Watcher in the capital wants to take us out.
B2 (Watchers are Aodh's): This is good. We remove two spies and get closer to the prince.

C1: Aodh's people capture us and put us out of commission while we're under house arrest. Any reason you guys can think of why Aodh wouldn't come after us? Like I said, it would make me a lot more confident about C.
C2: We wait it out for a week and take our chances on the trial. Without any body or murder weapon and the way we covered up the deaths, we might be able to beat the rap even if they come out with a lot of fabrications.

 

[Baltika9]

Almost missed the party. Esquilax made a good case, now it's up to the village madman to challenge it. Is this what you're down to, Codex?

C. You will have no part of this. No more plotting, no more scheming, no more risk-taking... at least for now. You refuse the masked man's plot.

Read it carefully, Esquilax. C has Dio, essentially, say "I don't want any part of your plans anymore, go away." And I will not be surprised if their reaction will, basically, be "Up yours!" If this faction really is on our side, which I doubt, they will be rightly insulted and/or comply out of loyalty. If they aren't and see us as a tool, which is most likely the case, then they'll leave because a loose end will tie itself up.
And do you know where that leaves us, assuming we even reach the court? High and dry in a courtroom against an unscrupulous Secret Police lead by another aspect of Ean who does not wish us well, without a Secret Police to cover us, since we told them to go fuck themselves (as for why he hasn't made a move yet, it's easy. We are, to his frustration, the Prince's close and valued courtier. If we disappear with our rep intact, that will cause questions, aka the last thing he wants).
As in, it can turn into a kangaroo court. You say they don't have enough to convict us? They don't need to, all they have to do is discredit us in public and smear our rep in the Prince's eyes. The medicine alone is enough to do that and they can cook even more shit up if they have the time, [which is precisely why they put Dio under house arrest!
Honestly, if you are gambling on the court, C is the worst choice. We've woven an elegant tapestry, yes, but all it takes is one thread to unravel it.

As for B: even without the meta it makes sense. The Prince is our only benefactor, hell, the only guy in the whole Empire, to hold us in high regard. If we give Aodh's crew smear our rep, they will (that guy is very good at playing dumb). What we need to do now to, as you put it, unfuck ourselves is secure the support of the only person who gives a single fuck about Dio: Runikylos. If we kill two assassins right in front of him thus saving his life, Dio's silver tongue will allow us to sell him pretty much any story we need to get ourselves outta this mess. In fact, this might be the better option.

Now, last thing for now, because I need to go soon. Bros, we gotta metagame this. Even the tamest possibility, that being a Watcher conspiracy, has us go up against a meta opponent. Besides, "lol stay in character" doesn't really work when our votes help mold the character. Besides, keeping RK-47 alive can easily be justified as Dio looking out for his power base, that being the prince. As for the our watchers, I am sure they want Dio on the throne, it's their motivations I suspect. More up later, bros, I gotta go.
treave: this better not be another one of Sekhenun's "hurt durr, I r Tzeench, the changah ov weys", "send in Edem and have Ean figure shit out on the spot" a-la the Gutian Camp plans again. Otherwise you will be forced to write a "punishment game" update.

 

[Tigranes]

Oh, by the way: The wall blowing up is clearly treave's reference to us panicking about the wall being a Northern sabotage that will blow us up...

A. Since my D idea has been addressed by treave, let's deal with the Esquilaxian Agenda. I think it's impossible to know for sure, but the biggest piece of proof that the New Watcher is our man is that he knows all about us, while Aodh didn't. That said, here's the thing - if the New Watcher is not our man, I don't think he'd be in cahoots with Aodh. I think he would be either using Aodh but above him, or a separate faction altogether. Think about it. If the Aodh Faction knew about us, but wanted to incriminate us more to get rid of us, and they had successfully killed off the Old Watcher or compromised our communications with them - why would Aodh then come up to us and politely ask us to leave the Empire? It just doesn't make sense. If Aodh is cahoots with New Watcher, he could have done a better job of the blackmail. Or they could have skipped that and fooled us into an assassination anyway. Possibly they set literally everything up and used Aodh to get us in a vulnerable house arrest situation and then make a lucrative offer, but I don't know. I think it's much more likely that the New Watchers commissioned Aodh just like Old Watchers did us, but Aodh didn't do a great job of it, or the New Watchers are separate from Aodh and have their own agenda.

B. The question is, if the New Watchers are not with Aodh, and say, come from the Free Scania faction Esquilax describes, should we do what they say? I just find it hard to believe it could be as simple as all that. Assassinate the Shinari Emperor, which according to history does not seem to have happened often/ever? Are we to believe that this is the first time the Watchers have turned on the Imperial Family like this? Seems too good to be true, and of course with the highest risk factor. But should we turn them in? Because I think it's likely that New Watchers are not completely complicit with Aodh, I think it could be us throwing away our biggest ally in the game. If we do kill these watchers, and then get with the prince, what then? We know now that there are multiple factions of Watchers out there, any one of which can ninja-fu into our bedroom at will. Killing just two New Watchers won't get the Old Watchers back to say "hey, you did good, we'll watch your back now". If we were comrpomised now we can be compromised again. We'd be left vulnerable always to the New Watchers' ill-will.

C. So all in all C does look like the most attractive option. If the New Watchers are trying to incriminate us, then they will find it harder to do, and hopefully we'll have a NWN2-style trial where we can defend ourselves. But make no mistake, I'm pretty sure we will end up at least bruised politically; our meteoric rise will be significantly curtailed for now. If the New Watchers really were trying to help us, then surely they can help us in a different way, e.g. by covering things up or even getting rid of some enemy watchers. I don't see why Aodh would come after us while we're in house arrest, though - in that case they'd have done it before blackmailing us, no? My only problem with C is that it's not only inactive, but we're going to learn less about the Watchers than either of the above options. And as baltika says, I really don't fancy our chances in court...

Edit: Baltika9, the thing is, it's a question of whether we value the Prince as our primary benefactor, or the Watchers that are loyal to us. I'd much rather have the latter in the long run, both for information and for intrigue. I don't fancy our chances if the Prince loves us but the Watchers hate our guts.