[LP CYOA] Epic

[TOME]

Might be a Gieloth or a Immortal. Nevertheless I wouldn't want to deal with them when we have no clue about what we are giving away.

B

 

[Azira]

For the moment, I'm voting
A1
but I'm no more set than I can be swayed by arguments. The way I see it though, we're here to negotiate with the concordiat, and we want to increase our standing in Runi's eyes. We don't want the seat for Dio himself, that would be out of character. And we're also interested in finding out what Zhang wants to do with the labyrinth..

We need more knowledge. Go along with this plan. So far, it holds no obvious dangers, and we know our two watcher friends are nearby.

 

[Esquilax]

Azira is right, he's probably a Gieloth. There's the fact that his presence felt different, but also that he's from China. He's of a low to moderate power level, judging from his grade in the Concordiat bureaucracy, and he serves more powerful Gieloth. Also, remember that he offered us a deal, pretty much like almost every single Gieloth has in the past: this means that even if we might be getting dicked over, we know that he'll be fulfilling his end of the bargain. The Labyrinth was a product of Gieloth knowledge, so it's no surprise that Zhang, who is probably a Gieloth, would be interested in it:

The tower’s base lay close to the Labyrinth, and Daedalus had in secret connected his dwelling to his great masterpiece. Daedalus made occasional jaunts into the maze to collect materials for his works. He was a prolific inventor, and took pleasure in showing you the many marvellous constructs he had made over the years. Minos had shared with him quite a bit of the knowledge that the Gieloth possessed, and with that knowledge he had designed the Labyrinth, as well as several other constructs and buildings for the King of Crete.

I have a feeling that Zhang is trying to fuck us over on the fine print. Remember that he promised to halt attacks coming from Tamur, but he made no such promise on behalf of the Concordiat. Anyways, I find the beginning of the update pretty disconcerting:

It was also then that the people of Crete was supposedly cursed by the Greek god Zeus, dooming them to a life of undeath. No one approached the island for centuries, fearful of the walking dead, but by the time some brave Shinari scholars visited the island in 1116 A.C., they found nothing but strangely well-preserved buildings. It was totally uninhabited, with no human presence anywhere on the island. As their archaeological efforts continued slowly over the next century, the island stubbornly refused to yield any corpses to the scholars. Even the tombs and mausoleums were empty. It was not long after that that the Greeks moved in. They were starved on space on Peloponessus, and it did not make sense to waste good, fertile land - and inhabitable buildings - on the basis of a fairytale. The legendary palace of Knossos was refurbished to become the official residence of the island's ruler, and it had become a thriving part of the Empire ever since.

Very suspicious - Zeus apparently doomed the Cretans to undeath (could just be someone posing as Zeus), yet not a single trace of the inhabitants remains on the entire island, not a single body. Nothing. So the bodies haven't disappeared, they're just somewhere else. And I believe that must have been sealed away within the Labyrinth. Maybe opening the door is a terrible idea and it'll unleash a horde of undead on all of us. I don't know, but this all sounds really suspicious.

Not quite sure yet, but hopefully this gives you guys something to think about.

 

[Azira]

Ooh, a horde of undead! Wow, in a society where immortals are a thing of legends, and the Terasphagos haven't been spotted in centuries, maybe a supernatural attack is just the thing to strengthen the internal cohesion of the Empire? You'd need a tangible and preferrably external threat, and if this possible attack by undead abominations can be spun in just the right manner (I'm looking at Diogenes here), it can be seen as an act of aggression from the Concordiat.

All the "Eans" out there would have a vested interest in proving themselves. What better way than to deal with that threat?

This is too delicious. Your theory has steeled me in my vote, Esquilax.

 

[oscar]

Hm anyone pick up on him on the tall Easterners remark? East Asians aren't historically known for their towering height. Perhaps the Gieloth have fiddled with their subjects DNA or somesuch.

 

[Helly]

C
It's now or never ! We shan't trust them.

 

[treave]

Oh, no, Dio wouldn't be King of Tamur. Sorry if it was too vague, but he'd make his soldier buddy the King, if everything pans out, i.e. new kingdom joining the Empire, more friends in high places, and all that.

 

[TOME]

He could be an Immortal too. Only thing we are sure is that his presence is different from a human.

 

[Storyfag]

Baltikan A3

 

[Baltika9]

treave: I wonder what would have happened to the Empire if, instead of creating the Watchers we chose the Praetorian Guard?

And made Sek Empress?

Edit: those memories show Ean literally and physically saving a maiden from the Minotaur's lair, right?

Edit 2: unless there is something we didn't know about our dear friend Theseus.

 

[Tigranes]

did it just say ean struck down the minotaur and saved a maiden in the process well I think we can be confident enough to say at the very least those memories are fake
A 1

This is really important. For the first time our memories are false, and it does not seem triggered by anything Zhang did in particular. Which means the memories which were 'activated' by the first Watcher was flawed. Which means they may not be Ean's innate memories coming back after all, but memories which were planted by the weird-smelling orb itself - which, my theory would be, works like one of the memory orbs in PS:T, except it was clearly made by someone other than Ean but knowing him intimately that reconstructed events. That is, Sekhenun - the only person who would know enough to make such an orb of Ean's memories, but get it wrong about the Labyrinth? I'm not saying it's certain, I'm saying it's worth making sure we don't think we're Ean 100% after this.

Now, the current deal. What do they want out of the Labyrinth? We don't know. Is the Tamur threat real? Maybe it isn't, and the offer is more like, get scared and do what we want, or we will actively engineer a Tamur invasion. Not a great fan of these guys, and also not a great fan of the fact that everyone and their mother seem to know about our real identity. Which means, I think, our immediate goal should be to build up our power base so that when the inevitable reveal comes we aren't too dependent on the Prince or the Watchers for our life and for our schemes. If we go for A, we should go for A2, or some kind of A3 where our first concern should be what we, not the empire, get out of it.

Otherwise, I think it has to be B. We might succeed with C and get some information, but I doubt the Concordiat will swallow our story, and with Tamur already itching to go to war, and the Concordiat clearly aware of the problems in the Empire regarding the Eans, it's calling for a full scale invasion.

 

[Baltika9]

Bros, I think Dio is a newly seeded agent of the masters and not a shard of Ean. Wall-of-text incoming.
As I said previously, the amount of Ean's pieces springing up seems suspicious to me and I have difficulty believing he "shattered" into so many.
But, let me start from the beginning.

When Marduk succeeds it will bring down a lot more attention from the guys behind the immortals, which means that they may attempt other things.
Quickly create many more immortals first, by spreading out the powers of those that currently have them and then having them go into hiding until they are collectively strong enough (Ean got a defective batch of voices which he works with as equals, Shulgi has conquered his voices, Naram follows his voices)
If that fails get the immortals to sacrifice humans to create more avatars
If that fails possibly wipe the planet.

This, right here, outlines one of the Masters' contingency plans: spam Immortals. And right now, we are seeing people with supernatural, Immortal-like powers. No voices, you say?

“What do the voices tell you to do?” you ask, pointing to your head.

Her eyes fix on you, startled, unsure whether she should say anything, looking every bit like a young woman and not the goddess that she was.

“This…”

“We haven’t heard the voices since the mountain crumbled.” Artemis spoke up, her tone as indifferent as her face. “Our powers are still here, of course, and we sense that they are still within us… but for some reason they do not speak to us anymore.”

Apparently no problem.


Now, where could they have gotten the memories from? Well, Ean was guesting with them for an unknown while, no tellimg what else they did. Then, there's this.

The man beams. "I'm glad you like it. Now, what to do with you... we would like to see what you can do with the world you are from, but unfortunately, your tentacled friends damaged the system.

Considering that we have never been in direct verbal contact with any masters before this leaves two possibilities: they repurposed the local Immortals as observers

"I suggest a third path: we observe this world longer before deciding."

"We no longer have any eyes on that world. We still haven't repaired the damage those damned pests did to the link."

"There are other ways to observe. May I be put in charge of this project? I am sure all of you have greater things to tend to."

"... very well. You now have responsibility over this world. Don't mess up like he did."

"I won't."

Or Ean got mindscanned, which would also explain the memories, even the inconsistencies.

Finally, for this:

There are a few. Remember the exile option back when Dio was confronted by Aodh, and what I said about it? Regardless, it is possible for Dio to lose and become Ean anyway, or for him to win and not become Ean. The one thing that is hardest to achieve though is maintaining the status quo. Things are going to tzeentch.
Sacrificing Thania has reduced your options by the way.

There is this:

I have no idea what you are talking about by shards. Did I ever confirm they were actually shards of Ean that would recombine? Also, an update can be expected by Friday at the earliest, I've had to pull several long nights of work these past few days.

And this:

If you actually end up leaving after deciding to, yes. I'm afraid the plot of this chapter isn't going to wait around for you to spend years mucking about overseas, though, so Diogenes could just become this threat that an Ean faces later on, or you could continue playing Diogenes and attempt to take on the self-claimed God-Emperor of the Shinar. You will lose your chance to really embrace your destiny and become Ean if you leave. Either way is fine with me, but Option C isn't as simple as "lol fine I go to Russia".

Note the wording an Ean, not the Ean. Implies that we will become a usurper of the title, but not The First Emperor.

So, why now, three thousand years later?

Baltika9 said: ↑

Edit: treave, I know you're probably tired of my questions, but can Immortal-human crossbreeds be amplified by the voices and the Masters, like Ean was?​

Yeah, they can, if the right circumstance presents itself. The next seeding won't occur for a good while, though.

This could plausibly be that seeding.

Also, since Holy Terra is now a test world, they may want to observe it and Ean and are putting eyes and ears in place.

The man beams. "I'm glad you like it. Now, what to do with you... we would like to see what you can do with the world you are from, but unfortunately, your tentacled friends damaged the system. We can't access it directly just yet, not without going through the rift that my brilliant friend created, and even we do not want to spend more time in that particular place than necessary. It is out of the way anyway. I'm afraid I will have to drop you on one of our more accessible test worlds. You can always make your way back from there, if you find out how."

"I thought I was a unique aberration. Should you be dumping such a unique specimen anywhere?"

"You are unique, but that also means that your interactions wherever we put you should be unique and enlightening. Some advocated putting a new set of voices inside you, but I personally think it's a waste of time. You'd probably just eat them,"

Also, there is the matter of the chapter's title (Pretenders to the Empire) and the fact that treave said that this is our reintroduction to the Empire, and this would make Dio the intro character.

And, again, I am also thinking that correlating the different "shards" to an aspect of Ean may be erroneus symbolism (coming from me, that says a lot).

 

[Esquilax]

TOME, I initially thought that Zhang was immortal, but we've already met two other immortals - our soldier buddy and Aodh. The update implies that his presence was different than either of theirs. treave, can you confirm this?

Ooh, a horde of undead! Wow, in a society where immortals are a thing of legends, and the Terasphagos haven't been spotted in centuries, maybe a supernatural attack is just the thing to strengthen the internal cohesion of the Empire? You'd need a tangible and preferrably external threat, and if this possible attack by undead abominations can be spun in just the right manner (I'm looking at Diogenes here), it can be seen as an act of aggression from the Concordiat.

How do you come to that conclusion? A supernatural attack would only make things worse and make the cults even more dangerous and a bigger threat to stability. Uniting to face a common threat made sense at the founding of the Empire, but that was when there was only one Emperor - now there are dozens of people claiming to be Ean, so who exactly would people unite under? It would make the conflict worse, not better because you'd just have each of the Eans claiming preaching the end of days and calling for their supporters to take over the Empire.

My question here is: why does he want the Labyrinth open and what does it get him in return? I've relied on the assumption that Zhang is a Gieloth, which I think is reasonable. I also believe that Zhang requires an immortal to enter the Labyrinth because it was tampered with somehow and they can no longer interface with it, sort of like Vajra. The sparse clues we have from Zhang are these:

"I don't really believe in ghosts, Sir Camna." When he spoke, he spoke in fluent, if slightly accented Shinari. "The feeling of being spied on is a feeling every human gets. However, if there is one... well, I think I'd like to meet it." Zhang gave a tight smile. "At any rate, I believe there is something we need to discuss, Sir Camna."

..."It's a real construct, Sir Camna. The Concordiat has an interest in its history, and would like to explore it. Of course, the Empire is unlikely to give us permission, so..."

..."Then you don't, and we go on our separate ways. We have other ways we can try. If you do, then matters in Tamur will be resolved to your pleasure. I think that is incentive enough." said Zhang matter-of-factly, and that was that.

I think Zhang is here to talk to ghosts. He wants knowledge within the Labyrinth, and if there are undead there, he might be able to learn it from them. To what end, I don't know, but I think it relates back to Zeus and the first Emperor in some way. treave, does the Imperial Cult have any teachings about Athena, Marduk and Zeus? If so, could we reasonably ask Zhang if his interest in history has anything to do with the First Emperor or Zeus? It's a leading question, so I think we might be able to dig something up.

Anyways, we need to start thinking nuts-and-bolts here. All this theorizing is nice, but it doesn't help us in the immediate circumstances. We're in a bit of a dilemma: our goal is to create stability for the Empire so that we can deal with our enemies without worrying about external problems, but Zhang kind of has our balls in a vice because he's holding Tamur's leash. We can't really deal with an invasion right now.

Also keep in mind that Zhang said that if we refuse him, the Concordiat will try to find different ways of accessing the Labyrinth, so that means that this thing is really important to them. If we make a deal, we should ask for as much as we can reasonably get. If we're too unreasonable, he'll tell us to fuck off and start looking for alternatives, though.

I also think that we need to start developing our power base. Our relationship with our Watchers is already uneasy, and I would hate having to rely on them exclusively. Having our soldier buddy take Tamur would allow us to build up our resources, but more importantly, it would put someone competent and trustworthy at the Concordiat's border so that we can keep an eye on them. Of course, if things go to shit with the cults in the north, that might not matter.

In any case, I'm voting A2 for now, but I'm willing to flop to B based on some decent arguments. C is fucking crazy.

A3: Ask Zhang to use his connections to arrange a marriage between the Hero of Korinthos and a suitable princess of Tamur, ostensibly in order to avoid a war, but in reality to allow us to find out what the Concordiat is up to

 

[Baltika9]

Esquilax, I think A1 is the right call. It will prove Dio in RK's eyes completely through competence, ability and, if we put the right spin on the story (and since we're talking about Dio here, of course we will), loyalty.
And integrating into the Imperial family (treave, we're still scheduled to marry his sister, right?), that we already started, will benefit both Dio and the Empire, and, by extension, Ean.

Of course A2 has the advantage of shutting Tamur up once and for all. However, it also adds anoter region to the Empire than needs to be regulated and policed.

But I personally want to milk him for information. Storyfaggotry demands it.

 

[Bloodshifter]

A1

 

[treave]

treave, does the Imperial Cult have any teachings about Athena, Marduk and Zeus? If so, could we reasonably ask Zhang if his interest in history has anything to do with the First Emperor or Zeus? It's a leading question, so I think we might be able to dig something up.

It's been relegated to academic knowledge (history of myths and legends) in the Empire, not religious. There are worshippers here and there, but they are a very minor lot whose prayers go unanswered every second of their lives. The link of the Labyrinth with King Minos and Zeus is obvious though, and asking him about it will only tell you what you already know.

 

[Tigranes]

I agree with Esquilax, and have already explained how C is stupid and we want to try and cut a deal somehow. That says, Baltika9 has a good point about making sure we conclude it in a way that satisfies the Prince and increases our standing. Listen, let's not be so hasty. We have the option of A3 that treave has given; why are we not using it? Let's try and hammer out a deal that is the most beneficial for us.

Our objectives are:

• For the Tamur invasion, which if not imminent can certainly be caused by the Concordat, to be put off;
• For Dio to appear to conclude the negotiations in a way that is testament to his loyalty and competence to the Empire and to Runikylos;
• For Dio to derive whatever personal benefits possible from the Concordat.

Now, we certainly couldn't go as far as, say, just combining A1 and A2. After asking for the Tamur invasion to be called off, we can probably only ask for minor things. Possibilities:

• Information. We could frame it as, fine, we accept your deal (A1), but on one condition; Dio accompanies Zhang inside the Labyrinth. They go in, come out together, and Dio keeps what he learns to himself. Surely Zhang does not expect us to have a foreign dignitary enter unaccompanied to a dangerous location? It is our responsibility to make sure he does not come to any untoward harm! It would be a grave breach of protocol for us...
• Blackmail Fodder. Zhang, you tell us that the Concordat will prevent a Tamur invasion, but how can we be sure? And what if they still want to invade 5,10, 20 years later? How long shall your guarantee hold? Perhaps it is much more reasonable that you give us, if you can, some piece of information, some evidence, that can be used to blackmail or manipulate Tamur's leadership / King (I need to reread the lore update...); the advantage here for us is that not only do we achieve A1, we have something we can use to leverage Tamur ourselves when we need to. It could be a scandal, or some kind of critical military or economic knowledge we can use to cripple their war efforts, whatnot.
• Whatever else we think up...

In short, let's try and think about what we can do with A3 rather than jump so hastily to A1 or A2.

 

[Baltika9]

Tigranes, I like the idea of accompanying the dignitary inside. However, if we do that, we must also get a promise that he will not, under any circumstances, harm, kill or undertake any action that may do so to Dio, knowingly.

 

[Esquilax]

I have an idea: Could we arrange a marriage between our soldier buddy and a Tamurian princess? After all:

Tamur, a vassal of the Concordiat that has no policy of its own but has a reputation for birthing beautiful princesses; and the Concordiat, which has engaged in hundreds of little border skirmishes with the Empire via Tamur over the years, but has never escalated it to all out war. Even during times of war with the Indus Empire and the Concordiat, trade relations maintain cordial whenever swords are not being swung.

Something tells me that our soldier buddy trusts us, is dutiful, and he won't exactly mind that we arranged for him to marry a beautiful princess for the good of the kingdom without his consent beforehand. The problem of course, lies in the fact that King Tamur is all balls and no brains, so he'd be against a marriage. This is where Zhang would come in, using his connections to arrange a marriage between the Hero of Korinthos and a Tamurian princess. This would make it much harder for them to attack us, but more importantly, it would allow us an excuse to have our Watchers infiltrate the area and find out what the Concordiat is up to.

Sure, it isn't ideal in terms of information gathering (that's what B would be for) but this at least gets our foot in the door and gives us a way in. If we establish a diplomatic relationship with the Concordiat's vassal, that just means it's way easier to use that as a base from which to see what the mysterious Easterners are up to.

So my vote right now would be A3: Ask Zhang to use his connections to arrange a marriage between the Hero of Korinthos and a suitable princess of Tamur, ostensibly in order to avoid a war, but in reality to allow us to find out what the Concordiat is up to.

 

[Tigranes]

Esquilax that's a really good idea. We picked to develop closer ties to the soldier, right? But we haven't had any word on it yet? It all risks being a bit too fast (we don't want him to get married before he is ingratiated to us and properly recognizes us as the benefactor), but if it works out it can be a very good use of assets and opportunities on our side.

Baltika9 I assume that's a given, really. If he can harm us and wants to he will no matter what, if not he won't. But sure.

 

[treave]

Haven't had much time to really squeeze it into the update, but yes, he's really buddy with you. Naive little village boy who you've shown the wonders of the big city, that sort of thing. That's why Dio's willing to install him as a king.

 

[Baltika9]

I have an idea: Could we arrange a marriage between our soldier buddy and a Tamurian princess?

And that would get us what, exactly? Tamur XXX (I do indeed see what you did there) doesn't really strike me as a fellow that likes the Shinar all that much. Sure, we can marry our friend off, but what guarantee do we have he won't invade anyway? You said it yourself: all balls, no brain. And if we send off our stalwart warrior to him, what guarantee do we have he won't at least try to kill him, if not succeed.

It is, by no means, a bad plan, it's just too weak on it's own in the current circumstances. Now, if we combined it with A1, on the other hand, it would be a great synergy.

Personally, though, I like Tigranes's idea. More story!

 

[newcomer]

If Tamur invade & lose (which it will because the hero of Korinthos is an Ean), the hero will have enough legitimacy to install himself as the king of Tamur. So it's a good move I guess.

A3 (Esquilax)

 

[Esquilax]

And that would get us what, exactly? Tamur XXX (I do indeed see what you did there) doesn't really strike me as a fellow that likes the Shinar all that much. Sure, we can marry our friend off, but what guarantee do we have he won't invade anyway? You said it yourself: all balls, no brain. And if we send off our stalwart warrior to him, what guarantee do we have he won't at least try to kill him, if not succeed.

It is, by no means, a bad plan, it's just too weak on it's own in the current circumstances. Now, if we combined it with A1, on the other hand, it would be a great synergy.

Personally, though, I like Tigranes's idea. More story!

What guarantee is there that he won't invade even if the Concordiat tries to halt his efforts with A1? He might be a hothead, but he is not a complete idiot. Bonds of marriage between countries aren't something to be taken lightly - he can't wage a war if say, one of his sisters is married to a Shinari hero. This gets us a lot more than A1, which would leave us blind, because it gives us presence inside Tamur without needing to invade it. So we'd be able to have Watchers in there, as well as the occasional appearance by our soldier buddy himself to keep us appraised of events. It allows us a lot more room to maneuver and figure out what's going on than just letting Zhang into the Labyrinth and then letting him do whatever he wants unimpeded.

Furthermore, this would propel our status with Runikylos while allowing us to maintain the control of information at the same time. It wouldn't be the threatening power play that A2 would be, but at the same time, it would still give us assets in terms of knowledge in the area.

The problem with Tigranes' idea is that Zhang might just outright refuse it. It seems apparent to me that he's not going to tell us why the Labyrinth is important to the Concordiat, because, as he said, they can find other ways of getting in:

"Then you don't, and we go on our separate ways. We have other ways we can try. If you do, then matters in Tamur will be resolved to your pleasure. I think that is incentive enough." said Zhang matter-of-factly, and that was that.

I think it's just trying to have your cake and eat it too. You want to know his motivations, but he's not willing to lay his cards on the table. If we accept his offer, our best bet will be to try and entrench our power base/spy network in Tamur in hopes of figuring out the Concordiat's plans. I see a marriage as the best way of doing that.

Also, option B and C are there for a reason. It's there if you don't trust his deal (opening up a sealed Labyrinth that might be full of the undead is good reason to be suspicious), so if you want to gather information, those are your choices. Offering to go into the Labyrinth with him might result in a refusal instead of an amicable split like in B.

 

[Tigranes]

Alright, the Esquilaxian A3 it is, since it's a better form of the 'blackmail' option. I thought going to the labyrinth would be cool story-wise and net us some benefits, and I don't know if treave would reject any deal that Zhang would, or allow us to screw up like that.