Storyfag
Perfidious Pole
B1, though considering a flop to B2.
Especially if the "rehabilitation" he mentioned is via the Masters.
"Striking Shulgi from the record" sounds suspiciously similar to the rewind mechanic: existential manipulation, probably related to the Great Idea. I get the impression that ending him here would have Bad Consequences. (The least of which would be finding ourselves exhausted and surrounded by ten superhumans in CFs who no longer have any reason not to kill us.)
Also, Shulgi generally seems to still have Holy Terra's interests at heart. I buy most of root's take on events on the previous page; the net effect of all Shulgi's manipulations is a humanity vastly better prepared to face the enemy coming for it. (Guess for that enemy: another of the Masters' test world civilizations, likely a more advanced one. We're near the center of the galaxy, so their path to it lies through us.)
Regarding 1 vs. 2, our display here seems to have at the very least convinced Shulgi of our value. So I don't think he'll kill us. And we could be useful for Earth's defense, so I don't think he'll cripple us, either. That doesn't mean that he won't do something nasty, though; we could well wake up with a remote-controlled explosive device implanted in our chest. So the choice is between the risk of that and the value of whatever information we might gain.
B1 for now; may flop.
Well, I imagine that all the events leading up to Ean's death would still happen. Most of the players are the same and Shulgi remained uninvolved for the most part - apart from giving Dio that game-changing tip. You give him too much credit for the small role he played in the beginning. I imagine we'd have been forced to kill Aseroth eventually anyway. What makes you think he opposed the masters actively until recently? You do realize that he was talking to them the whole time, right? Yes, it could alter things. But there might not be another way."Striking Shulgi from the record" sounds suspiciously similar to the rewind mechanic: existential manipulation, probably related to the Great Idea. I get the impression that ending him here would have Bad Consequences. (The least of which would be finding ourselves exhausted and surrounded by ten superhumans in CFs who no longer have any reason not to kill us.)
Also, Shulgi generally seems to still have Holy Terra's interests at heart. I buy most of root's take on events on the previous page; the net effect of all Shulgi's manipulations is a humanity vastly better prepared to face the enemy coming for it. (Guess for that enemy: another of the Masters' test world civilizations, likely a more advanced one. We're near the center of the galaxy, so their path to it lies through us.)
Regarding 1 vs. 2, our display here seems to have at the very least convinced Shulgi of our value. So I don't think he'll kill us. And we could be useful for Earth's defense, so I don't think he'll cripple us, either. That doesn't mean that he won't do something nasty, though; we could well wake up with a remote-controlled explosive device implanted in our chest. So the choice is between the risk of that and the value of whatever information we might gain.
B1 for now; may flop.
Good post, but I'm worried about even deeper ramifications than that. To me, "strike his existence from the records of fate" seems to imply an alternate timeline where Shulgi never existed at all. In my view, this is very bad, because without Shulgi:
* Ean would never have come into his own after facing him back into Sumeria.
* There never would have been someone opposing Naram.
* There never would have been a rebellious force that knew all about the Masters, yet was also opposed to them. Even if Shulgi has been rehabilitated by the Masters, I very much doubt that he is serving them or working for them. The man likes power, but he only likes it on his own terms.
* There would never have been anyone working behind the scenes to strengthen humanity.
I think that the CF's aren't really an issue, because the result would likely be a tear in reality that would put us into a timeline where Shulgi never existed.
root, I'm sure he doesn't actually want this. He's just backed into a corner and it's the only way he sees out. All the abuse he's been giving us has been to spark the realization of our true power. A power quite beyond his own. The only power he knows can defeat the masters. See, his power is all borrowed from the masters. He had to come up with another way to get at them. A power beyond the masters' power. Like Ean's hunger. Something that can kill ANYTHING. That's us. And now he's testing us with the only thing he knows can even come close to equaling a master in form and ability. Himself.
Denying him death is cutting off our nose to spite our face. We'll be more screwed than he will by it. He'll just use Rei instead.
My mind is in searing agony from the strain of maintaining my powers, but I keep a straight face, letting none of the pain show. I cannot hold this for much longer.
"Perhaps I should stop letting you run around like a headless chicken."
I get to my feet, facing him. "Afraid I will gut you and leave your innards to rot on the street, Shulgi?"
"Not really. I am, as you say, eternal."
"You'll spend the rest of your eternity in a jar on my desk."
"Bloodthirsty little bugger, aren't you?"
"I'll do it." I whisper. I'll kill him. I'll erase him. I can do it. I only have to want for it, and I can snuff out the flames of his life by just reaching out. If he doesn't die even then I will just cut him up again and again and again and again and again-
For the first time, Shulgi's face loses that amused expression, as he leans back involuntarily, seemingly picking up on my murderous thoughts. His face is set grimly as his eyes dart backwards over his shoulder, looking at Rei. She is still catatonic, lying on her own frame. When those dark eyes turn back to me, they seem firm of purpose.
"I won't kill you after all," he says, a wry smile on his face. "In fact, you need my help. You will lose yourself if you continue on this route. You have already lost control once before, haven't you? Your problem, Senya, is lack of information, which causes you to make reckless decisions. Go to sleep now. You will burn out very soon if you don't. Once you awaken, I will tell you everything you should know." He takes a step forward, ready to touch me - I will probably be knocked out if I allow that to happen. I might not be able to see Shulgi's lines, but at this particular moment in time, I sense that I can somehow reach something higher... I stretch out as far as I can go, straining my ability to its limits. At the other end I know I can find a way to end Shulgi for good, even with his immortality.
Shulgi's eyes narrow, his hand stopping mere inches away from me, and then withdrawing.
"Whatever it is you think you are grasping for, you are not ready yet," he says. "It will destroy you."
"Will it destroy you ?"
He remains silent, and I just smile at him, baring my teeth.
Well, I imagine that all the events leading up to Ean's death would still happen. Most of the players are the same and Shulgi remained uninvolved for the most part - apart from giving Dio that game-changing tip. You give him too much credit for the small role he played in the beginning. I imagine we'd have been forced to kill Aseroth eventually anyway. What makes you think he opposed the masters actively until recently? You do realize that he was talking to them the whole time, right? Yes, it could alter things. But there might not be another way.
I think Shulgi knows exactly what we are and what we can do and he needs us to do it now. Even though it's a serious risk, he thinks it's probably the only way to stop the masters - which means things are even more dire than we realize. Pull the trigger.
I'm not going to confirm whether it is a retroactive wipe - either way things might get messy, but let's just consider what happens if Shulgi isn't there from the start. There would be no coup from Sargon's son, no hasty return to Sumeria. Ean might have even stayed in Egypt and confronted Sekhenun earlier. There would be less reason for Sargon to become angry and cut off your hand, which was probably a catalyst for you to kill him and take the throne yourself. It's hard to say what choices the Codex would have made without Shulgi around (at least, the paranoia regarding his possible plots would have lessened) but I think the LP would have gone quite differently... perhaps for the better, even.
...and I would have gotten away with it if it wasn't for these meddling voters!
...and I would have gotten away with it if it wasn't for these meddling voters!
I'm fairly certain that it would be retroactive, because Shulgi knows what we're trying to do, but at the same time, he warned us against it, saying that it would destroy us. This to me implies that our own existence is dependent upon Shulgi's. No Shulgi, no Senya. We are an idiot god with no concept of how powerful we are, as Smashing Axe noted. I don't think that Shulgi meant that straining our powers beyond this point would end up killing us, I think he was warning us of the dangers of tampering with the fabric of the multiverse.
As for things turning out better in an alternate universe where Shulgi doesn't exist, I don't think so. Haha, it's interesting how you conveniently leave Naram out of the events in Chapter 1. If Shulgi hadn't been around in Chapter 1 to take power in Akkad, who knows what Naram would have done with his newfound quest for the gods with nobody to act as a counterbalance to his goals?
"I'll do it." I whisper. I'll kill him. I'll erase him. I can do it. I only have to want for it, and I can snuff out the flames of his life by just reaching out. If he doesn't die even then I will just cut him up again and again and again and again and again-
...
A. He must be lying, as he always does. On the off chance he isn't, I'm still confident I can handle whatever consequences that come. I will strike his existence from the records of fate.
As I perceive, I am perceived.
In that briefest instant, an unfathomably vast entity stirs, an existence I can feel but not observe directly, and I get a distinct sense of possibilities extinguished.
If Shulgi never existed, what would happen to Dio? He would never have been guided by him and would never develop that Ego? He would never end up opposing The Great Idea? Masters would have never come to existence?
It was rewritten so probably they would, Dio involvement looks like opening under new management or sort of unconscious hostile takeover. That changing fate gives me sense of deja vu. Our power is linked somehow to GI?When Dio meets the Great Idea, at the center of the multiverse, the event has happened simultaneously at every point in time and space, rewriting the universes as we know it without its inhabitants noticing.
In the moment of their meeting, Dio becomes - retroactively - the progenitor of the Masters.
Another thought I just had regarding the choice here:
[...]
Now, Senya is reaching out for something, but what is he reaching out to? Probably the same vast, unfathomable entity we stirred up when we hit the reload button last time:
It is the Great Idea, the One Truth, the Originator, the Meaning of All Things. In the web of dimensions, the Great Idea sits at the center, weighing down the multiverse, testing, probing, observing and recording. It is said that something is not until it is seen, upon which then it is. The Great Idea sees all things, and ascribes to them meaning. In return, life eternally quests to reach the One Truth, ascribing to itself a meaning without which it would be mere void.
Anyway, do you bros get the feeling that B1 is a little too awesome? As in, we picked a totally avoidable fight with the God-Emperor of Mankind, and not only do we not die, but he shakes our hand and gives us a free level-up? That would admittedly mark a major improvement in his previous strategy of recruiting Senya to help defend Earth by shitting on him at every opportunity, but it seems a little too easy.
lol Yay! Shulgi fucked up the universe, not us. I'm so relieved. Actually, this would be cool to see - if it worked, that is. Maybe Ean would still be alive...I'm fairly certain that it would be retroactive, because Shulgi knows what we're trying to do, but at the same time, he warned us against it, saying that it would destroy us. This to me implies that our own existence is dependent upon Shulgi's. No Shulgi, no Senya. We are an idiot god with no concept of how powerful we are, as Smashing Axe noted. I don't think that Shulgi meant that straining our powers beyond this point would end up killing us, I think he was warning us of the dangers of tampering with the fabric of the multiverse.
As for things turning out better in an alternate universe where Shulgi doesn't exist, I don't think so. Haha, it's interesting how you conveniently leave Naram out of the events in Chapter 1. If Shulgi hadn't been around in Chapter 1 to take power in Akkad, who knows what Naram would have done with his newfound quest for the gods with nobody to act as a counterbalance to his goals?
Well, he could be bluffing, or the ability might not actually work how the reader expects it to (right now Senya knows nothing more than 'if I reach out I can fiddle with something and erase Shulgi'). But, well, we'll see, if A actually comes from behind and wins.
As for Naram, he would have succeeded in summoning Anu and Ishtar earlier, and they would actually have been able to stick around instead of expending themselves on Shulgi. So you eventually have two Zeus-level characters hanging around Sumeria, should Naram's plans continue to proceed unmolested. How that changes things, well... for the better, of course, as Marduk never gets into power. Zeus doesn't fall into a rift. We have three Masters - perhaps more, once they manage to call down their colleagues - supervising Earth, making sure it develops correctly.
Yeah, this is what I meant about the source of our rewinding power being the Great Idea. It seemed pretty clear, with the "I am perceived" bit and this:
That can be right. In that case i would assume that limit based on time span of our reload. Restoration of body after our tete a tete with Naim probably didn't take more than year.My guess would be that our access to it is limited, i.e. we can erase Shulgi, but only up to a certain point; we could expunge his impact on the world up to a minute ago, a week ago, a year ago, etc. I don't have textual support for that, but it seems like the most natural way to limit the rewinding power.
Anyway, do you bros get the feeling that B1 is a little too awesome? As in, we picked a totally avoidable fight with the God-Emperor of Mankind, and not only do we not die, but he shakes our hand and gives us a free level-up? That would admittedly mark a major improvement in his previous strategy of recruiting Senya to help defend Earth by shitting on him at every opportunity, but it seems a little too easy.