[LP CYOA] Epic

[Jester]

hmmm guess i vote C.

Time to get some VIP treatment, hope that Ean will leave us some little umbrellas for our drinks. Wonder if we made reservation, it would be horrible if our space vacation could be cut short by such silly mistake.

 

[treave]

A map's more trouble than it's worth, really. The systems that become significant to the choices may change with every update as the Federated Empire and the Star League each make their moves. I'm only going to list out the important routes as they emerge so as not to mire the whole LP in month-long discussions attempting to plan too far ahead for scenarios that might actually change immediately in response to the next choice, or that are actually invalid because of information not privy to the player for obvious reasons.

For example:
> We need to blow up fortresses in Gelmark!
> Pages of discussion on how to best blow up fortresses.
> No fortresses seen in Gelmark.

 

[Esquilax]

treave, did you mean that Bainur is a single, one week jump away from wherever Delta is heading, or a single, one week jump away from Gelmark?

If they have moved the space fortresses, there is a good chance they moved at least some of them to Bainur, which is only a single, one week jump away.

Also treave, we departed our system and arrived in Gelmark on the same day in Earth time. Would there have been time for a potential spy/traitor to notify the League of our movements prior to this? We've been allied with the Empire for two months, so I guess they've been keeping tabs in the intervening time, but I'm just speculating.

Guys, we cannot go with C. We need to end this war quickly and decisively because of the mind pact, and linking up with our other force limits our tactical options. We take over Bainur with our massive force, but then what? We just sit there and just wait for our enemies to come to us? The Star League isn't going to be drawn out in such an obvious way. Remember, try to put yourselves in their shoes. Also, I feel the need to point this little tidbit out:

Sol System 04.08.4033
Two months after Battle of Uranus

We have four months left to beat the League as per our pact with Adrahasis, and running away will make us lose even more time while letting the enemy prepare. So this Delta situation must be dealt with now. I believe that the only sound choices in the long-term are either A or B, depending on which is the right choice. I'd also like to point out that C isn't necessarily safe either; we could certainly get ambushed as we're trying to catch up to Ean's forces. Also, with Beta and Gamma scheduled to arrive soon, they could catch up to us as well. So don't worry, plenty of ways to fuck up the "safe" choice.

My point is that C is a wishy-washy choice that doesn't give us any real benefits in the future, we have to commit to a strong decision here and hope that it's the right one if we want to start this war off strongly. This involves taking being comfortable with taking some risks.

After looking at the evidence, I'm in favour of B: If Qin knows about our problems with certain Admirals like Kadowaki and Hasting who are against this war, the Star League with all their resources is certainly aware of it too. Even though Gelmark was intended as a surprise attack, they are plenty of ways that they could have figured this shit out too. The other hint that bothers me is the fact that Delta never bothered to fire at us; they sped up towards their destination on ships that they knew were slower, but they never fired their weapons. This implies to me that they're trying to get us to chase them - if they were really intent on making sure we stayed away, they probably would have used more firepower (which, considering their fortresses and super-heavies, they have) on us.

I know that going deeper into the galactic core carries risks of its own, but I believe that if we don't take the bait now and follow them deeper in, we could start making clever maneuvers of our own.

B

 

[Baltika9]

I don't know why you guys are going with C. Battlefleet Ean has enough firepower and talent to level anyone stupid enough to tangle with. They'd only get in the way.

Going for B.

Also, Carneus Beta is four jumps from here. Do fleets need to take breaks between said jumps?

 

[TOME]

My point is that C is a wishy-washy choice that doesn't give us any real benefits in the future, we have to commit to a strong decision here and hope that it's the right one if we want to start this war off strongly. This involves taking being comfortable with taking some risks.

This sounds to me 'let's roll the dice and see what happens'. If we go after the delta we will run straight to the ambush they are setting. Yes, we have time limit but that doesn't mean we have to be suicidal about it. We can chase their armadas or we could be smart about it and go straight to the planets. treave, do we know if the council knows about the universal reset? If they don't know about, then they will defend their planets and that's how we should play this. Ignore their retreating fleets and aim for planets.

 

[Esquilax]

This sounds to me 'let's roll the dice and see what happens'. If we go after the delta we will run straight to the ambush they are setting. Yes, we have time limit but that doesn't mean we have to be suicidal about it. We can chase their armadas or we could be smart about it and go straight to the planets. treave, do we know if the council knows about the universal reset? If they don't know about, then they will defend their planets and that's how we should play this. Ignore their retreating fleets and aim for planets.

Taking their planets by itself is not smart, and it isn't how we're going to win this war:

The League now boasts a membership of more than 115 star systems.
...
You're not going to wage a traditional war on them, taking their star systems one by one. That would be immensely retarded given your strict deadline and take years. No, a simple leak of information, a half-truth claiming that you have a weapon that can destroy the defense drones - perhaps a bomb of some sort - will cause them to act quickly before you grow any stronger. They might mobilize for Earth, but once they notice your entire fleet moving towards the gateway they will have no choice but to engage you in battle, and the presence of the Imperial fleet practically ensures that they're forced to throw everything they have in your way to have a chance to stop you. You will then attempt to crush each other in a series of fleet engagements leading towards the galactic core.

We don't have time for a war like this, and we're only taking Bainur because it will give us the edge in morale and make the Star League panic if we manage to do it in conjunction with destroying Delta fleet. The way this war will be won is by forcing the enemy to engage us on our terms. C does the exact opposite of that; we run towards Bainur, and the time we lose allows Beta and Gamma to reinforce the fleets that are currently in League space. We lose all of the initiative we've gained from attacking early this way, and to make matters worse, we lose tactical options because we're just sitting around at Bainur.

It's also important to note that the Council doesn't actually care much at all about Bainur. Despite Lambchop's suggestions, nuking various planets won't really help us. The Star League doesn't care about individual planets, all they care about is meeting their gods. In fact, nuking various planets is more likely to embolden the League's citizen and help with their morale.

This is a big risk, I get it. We aren't going to ever be 100% certain of anything, but we can look at the information at hand and try to come to a reasonable conclusion. Qin knew about our conflict with some of our Admirals regarding our alliance with the Empire, but she was cryptic about where she learned this from. Given the intel that we knew about the League's movements, it's reasonable to assume they know at least as much of our movements as we know of theirs.

Adding to that, when Delta spotted us, they didn't fire. That's pretty curious - you have an Armada based around heavy firepower, we can't really strike at them at this distance, they apparently want to retreat, but they aren't shooting at us to cover their retreat. If I were trying to get away and I had a comfortable distance from my enemy like Delta does, I would opt for a fighting retreat, but that's not what they're doing. Also, it's important to note this about Volkin Swicks:

...Volkin prefers to rely on heavy firepower when the opportunity presents itself, hence his predilection for battleships.

I believe that if we come close, the opportunity to gun our lighter ships down will certainly present itself. However, if we refuse to take the bait and follow him to his next location, we can start to turn the tables.

Of course, I could be horribly wrong here and going after them is the way to go. Maybe the ambush here is to get us to follow them deeper into the core. I think the more likely scenario is that they caught wind of our "surprise" attack and are attempting to lure us out.

 

[TOME]

I don't want to take planets, I want to nuke them. We know that Star League is an alliance of sorts, there are many different factions inside it. And like treave said, the council face possible mutiny if they don't act on a threat to Bainur. If we go on a rampage nuking their planets black holing their star systems, sooner or later they will have to respond and engage us.

The way this war will be won is by forcing the enemy to engage us on our terms.

B is engaging them on their terms. We are on their turf and running into too deep without sufficient forces will come to bite our asses.

 

[Esquilax]

I don't want to take planets, I want to nuke them. We know that Star League is an alliance of sorts, there are many different factions inside it. And like treave said, the council face possible mutiny if they don't act on a threat to Bainur. If we go on a rampage nuking their planets black holing their star systems, sooner or later they will have to respond and engage us.

The Star League has over 115 star systems, and we have only 4 months to defeat them. To even consider of doing something like that, we'd have to do it solo - the Star League could intercept us and take us out without backup thanks to their drones. These magic bullet plans where we use our black hole cannon to kill a fuckload of people because NUKE EVERYTHING LOL are not going to cut it. Plus, revealing our ace-in-the-hole through genocide for lulz is a massive waste.

Not to mention, it will also cause a ton of conflict with Grand Marshall Ean and Adrahasis, who both would have moral objections over this. Of course, Adrahasis is bound to us by the pact, so he's not a problem, but Ean is would be very pissed off.

B is engaging them on their terms. We are on their turf and running into too deep without sufficient forces will come to bite our asses.

You don't know that. What we know is that there are a few possibilities possibilities:

1. Delta caught wind of our assault and is attempting to lure us in and wipe out our cruisers with their battleships. To speak in favour of A for a moment, if that were the case, why would they not simply hunker down in their fortresses and anticipate us? They are a fortress-system, leaving all your strategically advantageous fortresses just so that you can bait the enemy into an elaborate trap seems foolish. The whole point of a fortress if you know an enemy is coming is to stay in the fortress.
2. We've caught Delta with their pants down and now they are panicking. However, Qin's cryptic hint stirs up my paranoia (but hey, who says her "sources" are Star League?), and why are they not shooting at us? treave, do we know if we're out of their range? To make matters worse, giving them time to gather themselves and then following them closer to the galactic core (and therefore, closer to Alpha) could be a disaster. I doubt that someone else is on the other side of the jump point, but its possible.

There are possibly other possibilities, but these are the most likely.

 

[Baltika9]

B is engaging them on their terms. We are on their turf and running into too deep without sufficient forces will come to bite our asses.

No, A is. This is a classic divide-and-conquer scenario: they want to make us act impulsively and give chase, thinning our ranks. Once they have us separated, they can spring their trap, which is doubtlessly there. I actually think they want to force a surrender here, Tarliss was doubtlessly pressed to give them intel on us when we "switched" sides.

Now they want to get their hands on the mastermind behind this invasion and his toys.

As I see it, we have two choices:
B- we advance in a disciplined formation and give them a bloody nose for their efforts. I think that we were caught flat-footed here, so maintaining discipline is key.

C- we say "screw you guys, I'm going home." We go and link up with Ean. Chances are, they prepared a welcoming committee for him too. Thing is, we'll be redundant there at best: they have more than enough resources to muscle through anything thrown at them. I'm unsure what we will accomplish by being there.

I don't want to take planets, I want to nuke them. We know that Star League is an alliance of sorts, there are many different factions inside it. And like treave said, the council face possible mutiny if they don't act on a threat to Bainur. If we go on a rampage nuking their planets black holing their star systems, sooner or later they will have to respond and engage us.

Bad idea, the League are masters of propaganda. Nuking their resort world with VIPs on it will just piss them off, Pearl Harbor style.

 

[TOME]

The star league doesn't know about the 4 months time limit. We have plenty of time to goat them into making a mistake and engaging us.

So you guys are sure the only trap is in A? Delta's only purpose was to see if we make a stupid mistake and send our fastest ship to slaughter? No, if there is a trap, it won't be so obvious. They are bating us to follow them deeper into their territory, and soon we'll realize our tiny fleet is surrounded by alpha, beta, delta and gamma armadas.

 

[Esquilax]

The star league doesn't know about the 4 months time limit. We have plenty of time to goat them into making a mistake and engaging us.

That won't be done by nuking star systems, however. We aren't going to go system to system black holing the entire fucking place, that is just absurd. We would only be able to do it solo, because otherwise we'd end up killing off our own fleets, and the League could easily intercept us that way.

So you guys are sure the only trap is in A? Delta's only purpose was to see if we make a stupid mistake and send our fastest ship to slaughter? No, if there is a trap, it won't be so obvious. They are bating us to follow them deeper into their territory, and soon we'll realize our tiny fleet is surrounded by alpha, beta, delta and gamma armadas.

First off, Beta and Gamma are still returning from Empire space, so we won't be intercepted by them. We might be if we pick C and linger too long, but we won't regardless of A/B. We could get fucked in some other way, but it won't be because we ran into Beta and Gamma.

However, excellent point regarding the fact that there's more than one way to unleash a trap. You are right, I haven't been thinking about how involved this trap could be. After all, treave did say that employing the Annihilator Cannon would involve Tactical Genius (tm). This is what we know, and a bit of speculation:

• Delta is heading towards a jump point that leads closer to the galactic core.
• Our intel on Alpha has them pegged as approaching the core to lie in wait for us.
• Qin was privy to sensitive information regarding the loyalty of our Admirals.
• If they know that we're approaching, it's highly unusual for them to abandon their fortresses. Logically, if I have a strong defensive position, I want to defend it. Abandoning that position, then not firing at us to cover their retreat is also suspicious.
• Senya suspects that the space-fortresses are already gone, because we haven't seen any around.

Okay, so based on this, and on your observation, we have to determine what the trap is. Here's my revised theory: Delta isn't baiting us into overextending our lines, they're baiting us into a cat-and-mouse game deep into their home turf where they can link up with Alpha and/or Epsilon to destroy our force. Since they probably know we have split our forces into a two-pronged assault, they know that we're reluctant to split up our forces even further. As a result, I think Volkin is counting on us to try and remain predictable by keeping all our forces together, meaning either B or C. Either B or C is great for Volkin: with the former, we fall into his trap, but the latter is still okay as it allows him time to gather with the other Armadas and prepare for us at a later time.

 

[Baltika9]

Yeah, I think you guys are right and I'm listening to paranoia and overthinking it too much. It really does seem more plausible that they're consolidating their forces in this sector, awaiting reinforcements. Besides which, we have a force ideally suited for a skirmish.

That being said, my first reaction was correct: heavy ships should close rank on the Sword of Ean and advance in formation. Light ships, chase them down and let them feel one hundred thousand ships' worth of firepower.

Flopping to A. And I see no reason why we should go to Bainur. I have full confidence in the force we assembled for Ean, and in his command skills. They don't need us there.

treave, could you write up his pre-deployment speech? Just curious, is all.

 

[Storyfag]

All right, all right. Flopping to A, just to spite Volkin.

Riddle me this, though:
Wormhole tranists are instantenaous, right?
Slipspace transits take time, right?
So it stands to reason that we could arrive at Delta's destination before they do (even taking into account the downtime needed for our wormhole generators to recharge) and ambush them as we forcibly pull them out of slipspace, much like we did with the Imperial Legions, right?

 

[a cut of domestic sheep prime]

> We need to blow up fortresses in Gelmark!
> Pages of discussion on how to best blow up fortresses.
> No fortresses seen in Gelmark.

yeah, but it's ok cuz I loled...

treave, you said that if they had the right immortal or a group of them, they'd be able to hide a fortress, but what about more than 1? They couldn't be hiding all 20 could they?

Esquilax, your theory had occurred to me. It seems unreasonable for them to plan an ambush for us here when it's the last place they'd expect us to come... Unless a spy within our fleet gave them the info about the attack. If that's the case, then they are probably baiting us into over-extending ourselves. Then again, if they didn't receive the info about a spy, they may be merely moving their fortresses and fleets to another sector because, as treave already mentioned, there's nothing here worth defending. If that were they case, then we caught them with their pants down and the time to strike is now... Unless, of course, epsilon fleet is here too and hiding their presence. Epsilon's load-out would probably be best suited for ambushes and the fact we don't know where they are would seem to suggest they might have the ability to mask themselves.

All this to say, A is too likely to be a trap and B will probably have us jumping into a massive ambush with 20 fortresses blasting our fleet to hades. D sounds like it would result in disaster given that enemy drones can interfere with our annihilation cannon in such a way that everyone dies and we can't take them out fast enough since we didn't pick the lasers.

C would seem our best option. But hey, why don't you guys just ignore me again and pick what you want. That always works out.

fake edit: Storyfag, assuming the mass-product generators on the fleet will let us do that, what happens if we do get there before them and find 20 space fortresses glaring at us weapons ready?

 

[The Brazilian Slaughter]

Its a good thing we didn't come with all our forces to Gelmak, that would've given them a serious advantage strategically.

• Delta is heading towards a jump point that leads closer to the galactic core.
• Our intel on Alpha has them pegged as approaching the core to lie in wait for us.
• Qin was privy to sensitive information regarding the loyalty of our Admirals.
• If they know that we're approaching, it's highly unusual for them to abandon their fortresses. Logically, if I have a strong defensive position, I want to defend it. Abandoning that position, then not firing at us to cover their retreat is also suspicious.
• Senya suspects that the space-fortresses are already gone, because we haven't seen any around.

This is pretty good info we have to keep in mind.


I think each option here has its own advantage, and its own dangers:

A looks like divide and conquer to me

B looks like rigidity being outrunned

C looks like derp (lose our chance to weaken the enemy strategically before they consolidate)

D looks ike AWESOME, but TOO SOON. We need to keep our penis-cannon inside our clothes for now.

BUT

A looks like a nice way to harry their fleet and weaken them once we try pursue them to where they will go

B looks like the best against traps (say, the fortresses being cloaked)

C looks like DUNGEON BYPASS LOL and the enemy commander stares dumbfounded "How did he pick out the trap? Noooo!"

D looks like a free-shot with fantastic results


Hmmmmm...

A looks like the MAXIMUM FUCK option with high-risk high-earnings

B looks like the safe choice

C looks like a safe choice too, but which may fuck us strategically up in the long run and force this to be a

D looks like the "Up the ante" option, like eating the tree.

I vote B, because I really don't believe they will pull such a shitty retreat like that. They're not even shooting at us, this is either:

1. Ambush with cloaked fortresses
2. Forcing fast element to go after them and get shot, thus giving them a pratically free score
3. Ambush waiting us at the other side of the jump
4. They're sent the Fortresses to Baianur and the fleet is going to meet up with another one (Alpha?) on the other side

Now think this through: Senya has the reputation of being a pragmatic and daring attacker. Fights smart like Shulgi, advances crazily like Ean. Seems like the kind of guy vulnerable to a trap or to overthinking (which can lead into traps or innaction).

The League has intel on us from Mere Tarliss and possibly Qin. They know who Senya is and how he acts by now. They also know by now he just stomped the Dragon Emperor with smarts, action, lots of tech and sheer guts.

I think the best move here, is to do the unexpected: Catiousness.

I vote B!

 

[Storyfag]

fake edit: Storyfag, assuming the mass-product generators on the fleet will let us do that, what happens if we do get there before them and find 20 space fortresses glaring at us weapons ready?

We wipe out the fortresses, since they lack the support of mobile assets such as battleships and proceed to pull Delta Wing out of slipspace.

 

[ScubaV]

treave, couple of questions: are Delta's drones already deployed and does our wormhole tech rely on existing slipspace routes? Couldn't we black hole them with D and them use our wormholes without having to follow in the radiation?

Also Lambchop19, I wouldn't be so smug about your last minute "I'm scared" flop.

 

[treave]

If Senya wanted to solve this through genocide of the League he'd have just jumped a mass of black hole generators into the comparatively less defended Star League home systems and blown up most of their inhabited territories in a preemptive strike.

There's a very good reason for not engaging in wanton slaughter and destruction. And it has nothing to do with the goodness of his heart.

 

[treave]

Bainur is a week from Gelmark. Fleets don't need to take breaks between slipspace jumps. You don't know if the Council knows about the reset. The range between your fleets is far enough that you have to chase them down with cruisers. That means even with the near unlimited range of beams the two are so far apart that they would likely miss in an engagement at this distance. As for making another wormhole jump, you can do so in a week if you don't mind not taking any Legions with you. The generators can handle taking such a large fleet once but anymore is likely to force an overload. You don't know if they can hide all 20, but you find it unlikely unless they have tech you don't know about.
The drones don't seem to be deployed. The radiation is a problem for you getting to the jump point.

 

[a cut of domestic sheep prime]

treave, couple of questions: are Delta's drones already deployed and does our wormhole tech rely on existing slipspace routes? Couldn't we black hole them with D and them use our wormholes without having to follow in the radiation?

Also Lambchop19, I wouldn't be so smug about your last minute "I'm scared" flop.

Eh, it wouldn't have been last minute if I had been able to access the forums at work. My phone wouldn't cut it. I was being somewhat tongue in cheek too, so whatevah.

There's a very good reason for not engaging in wanton slaughter and destruction. And it has nothing to do with the goodness of his heart.

Because all the death will only hasten the white apocalypse?

 

[ScubaV]

treave, do we have any intel about the speed of their fleet/fortresses vs. ours? If they jumped and continued fleeing to the next jump point while we kept our fleet together and followed would we have any hope of catching them?

 

[treave]

Their fleet will be slower by a bit. You might be able to catch up in the next system.

 

[a cut of domestic sheep prime]

What you guys seem to be overlooking with be is that we'll be coming out at a "jump point". If you knew the likely location a pursuing enemy force would be arriving at, what would you do? Wait there with fingers on the trigger, right? (or mine it, but maybe they won't have time for that) With 20 fortresses, that a lot of fingers on a lot of triggers, waiting for us. We'd be better off going with A or D if you really must charge in like lemmings.

 

[Esquilax]

The Brazilian Slaughter: A and B are both very risky, so the latter isn't the safe choice IMO. If we caught them off-guard and all is actually as it seems, we are in deep shit once we hit the jump point and they are ready for us. If the trap is intended to lure us into hitting the jump point, that's even worse.

It seems unreasonable for them to plan an ambush for us here when it's the last place they'd expect us to come... Unless a spy within our fleet gave them the info about the attack. If that's the case, then they are probably baiting us into over-extending ourselves. Then again, if they didn't receive the info about a spy, they may be merely moving their fortresses and fleets to another sector because, as treave already mentioned, there's nothing here worth defending. If that were they case, then we caught them with their pants down and the time to strike is now... Unless, of course, epsilon fleet is here too and hiding their presence. Epsilon's load-out would probably be best suited for ambushes and the fact we don't know where they are would seem to suggest they might have the ability to mask themselves.

It's not unreasonable if they've been tracking our fleet movements, certainly. We know the location of all their forces besides Epsilon, so it's logical to assume that they know the location of our forces too. But I find the probability of Epsilon being here unlikely. For one, there's the time frame of our departure - we left Sol system and arrived at Gelmark on the same day. This tells me that Epsilon would have had to have been at Gelmark for a while already. This is unusual, because something called an "Expeditionary Fleet" doesn't seem like something that would normally hang around at a fortress-system.

The other major reason why I don't think Epsilon is here with Delta is that it doesn't make sense to me strategically. If they were here, it would make much more sense if Delta remained in their defensive positions within the fortresses, then brought Epsilon out to take us by surprise while we're pinned down by their fortresses, drones and battleships. That would be a far more devastating plan, while ditching their fortresses completely in order to lure us into an ambush with the help of Epsilon seems like a really roundabout way of doing things to me.

As for cloaked fortresses or anything like that, hiding 20 is an extremely tall order. I might expect Alpha Armada to do something like this with their mighty Council immortals working together, but not Delta.

But hey, who the fuck knows? We can logic it out like this, but it's still a risky play that could potentially hurt us badly.

 

[ScubaV]

I originally wanted to vote D, but that seems stupid since we couldn't run through the radiation field and we'd otherwise be cooling our jets for over a week until we can rejump with the wormholes and take the Legions with.

treave, presumably the cruiser and CF force will include Senya/Rei? If so, I vote A. I think Esquilax's reasoning is sound. The likelihood of Epsilon and/or more than a fortress or two lying in ambush within Gelmark seems quite low. They also don't appear to have their drones deployed. Even if they do attempt to engage us it will buy time for the slower elements of our fleet to get in range.

It's too bad you guys didn't see the value of anti-drone systems, but hopefully we won't have to deal with them here.