[LP CYOA] Epic

[Esquilax]

I wonder what has happened to Senya's strikeforce, that Grimrock decided to use a defector as his envoy.

This isn't even the most suspicious part:

Admiral Kadowaki of the Second gathered all of the ships under him and made a wormhole jump. You do not know where he went, but Sekhenun seems certain he has betrayed you.
...
The first to arrive is an immortal that had come onboard a Federation ship that identified itself as being from the Federation Second Fleet. A quick check of the database verifies their identity. The immortal herself is a rather striking lady, though clearly young and inexperienced. She bows before you as you hold court on the bridge of the flagship.

Kadowaki took all of his ships and made a wormhole jump, now we have a Second Fleet ship arriving with someone claiming to be Mere Tarliss. How the fuck did this happen? Even if Kadowaki didn't betray us for the League, this would be suspicious, because Grimrock doesn't even have any Second Fleet ships with him. As for the negotiations themselves, treave, what's in it for them? Do we have any idea on what they might want in return? Do they have the mech too, or just the pilots?

I doubt this is Shulgi; why would Shulgi remain so secretive towards Ean? They are on pretty good terms and secrecy didn't exactly work so well before. It's possible that the Mere that Ean has met is an entirely different person than the Mere that Senya has met - this one could be a Council member in disguise, for all we know:

“Well, we don’t know. At best he is captured, at worst…” She looks at you, as if challenging me to finish the sentence. The immortal appears to be telling the truth, but there is a veil around the deeper parts of her mind that you cannot penetrate. She appears to be stronger than she looks. You revise my opinion of the immortal.
...
“They will arrive in Celtais exactly three days from now,” shrugs Mere. “It is the quickest way to meet up, unless you plan to stay in this system for another six days. If he does not see you at Celtais, their orders were to press directly ahead to Carneus Beta via the Beltais system, assuming that you are lost.”

This was a leading statement. The Council knows that Senya can't die, so what's the worst thing that can happen to him? Also, Senya's force is much smaller than ours and the mech isn't around, why would someone order them to press ahead to Carneus Beta? There are so many red flags in this story, it's not even funny. Voting for B.

Also, treave, let's say we wait a few more days to make a wormhole jump? Would the generators have enough power to bring some Federation ships in tow? This sounds crazy, but I'm a little tempted to "agree" to the negotiations, then make a jump in three days with some of our Federation ships. Would this be possible? Just throwing the suggestion out there.

Voting B for Senya

 

[Azira]

Dio is an asshole. Human perhaps, but an asshole.

B
B

 

[treave]

If they have the mech, you can probably assume they have the pilots as well. Since they mentioned pilots, they clearly know it is piloted by two people. So the Council has likely captured Rei and Senya. I'm not sure if I mentioned whether they know he can't die, however. I'm pretty sure they don't have a reason to know that, unless someone higher up told them.

A possible explanation for Mere's arrival on a Second Fleet ship is that Kadowaki bumped into Grimrock.

The negotiation takes place a day later at Oran Iota, but why would you want to go to so much trouble to bring Federation ships from the 3rd and 6th (maybe 2nd?) when you already have 1st, 4th and 5th with you? Is there something else you are planning? They're probably looking at trying to convince you to let them reach the gateway in return for benefits. On one hand, it could be a trap. On the other, it's a good chance for Ean to defeat them face-to-face.

Oh, yeah. Remember back during the Egypt chapter, when we all thought the Pharaoh's adviser was Shulgi, and decided he was out to get us, but then followed the Pharaoh's plan (which he made after conferring with his advisers) anyway?

....



I'm not saying that it is the same situation, just pointing out that the logic being used is starting to look awfully familiar. If you don't trust Mere, following the instructions in her message and going where she wants you to go might not be the smartest thing to do.

 

[TOME]

I'm inclined to meet with the council. At least we would know what we are getting at. I don't trust Mere a bit. How is it even possible she knew where we were and how did the second fleet know where to find Grimrock and why would he send a recent defector not yet trusted to meet with Ean? She is either Shulgi, the avatar or a council agent.

A2 for now. I guess Ean knows how to handle the trap. On the other hand I feel Grimrock's fleet will be lost if we don't go after it. Thoughts?

treave, if it is not too spoilerish, could we have stopped the second fleet from jumping away with better HR?

 

[treave]

If you didn't split up, yeah.

 

[Kipeci]

C

 

[treave]

I would be willing to field a 'Mere Q&A' for those who want to ferret out what they think she's plotting. Think of it as Ean trying to find out what happened to Grimrock and the Third Fleet, and how Mere came here, before he decides where to go.

 

[Storyfag]

Please do so.

 

[treave]

You guys need to provide the questions. I'll answer them as they come.

 

[Esquilax]

I'm not saying that it is the same situation, just pointing out that the logic being used is starting to look awfully familiar. If you don't trust Mere, following the instructions in her message and going where she wants you to go might not be the smartest thing to do.

I had meant agreeing to go, but not actually heading there. Basically, just buying ourselves time to get more of our fleet into a wormhole for a surprise attack on Carneus Beta. But since the negotiations would be slated for tomorrow, that isn't an option. Even then, C just won't work. We lost 10% of our forces with only three fortresses around Bainur, we won't be able to deal with dozens of them and Alpha at the same time.

As for the Mere Q&A, here's what I want to know:

Why would Grimrock send a defector over here? Why not someone he's known for longer and that he can vouch for?
What are you doing on a 2nd Fleet ship?
How did you know we'd be here, at the Oran Kappa system, if the rest of Grimrock's fleet doesn't?

If he does not see you at Celtais, their orders were to press directly ahead to Carneus Beta via the Beltais system, assuming that you are lost.

Orders from who? The other fleet is much smaller than ours and they no longer have Anhur-Shu, why would they press towards a suicide mission like this without it? Why not attempt to contact us instead?

If you bros can think up a question that might potentially catch Mere in a lie, I'd like to hear it.

Anyways, there is an interesting thing I noticed:

The jump from Celtais to Beltais would take five days, and then another seven to get to Carneus Beta. From Oran Kappa, it would take a day to get to Oran Iota, then another eight days to reach Carneus Beta.

If we don't agree to negotiations and link with Grimrock's fleet, the forces that would be at Oran Iota would most likely head to Carneus Beta. The League's troops would get there a lot sooner than we would, so taking them out at Oran Iota would be much better than facing them at the fortress. On the other hand, not linking up with Senya's force is dangerous considering they have the Jupiter Bomb. A light force like them would be prey to get picked off and have their bomb taken.

 

[treave]

Losing ships at Bainur was due to the surprise, but everyone's expecting fortresses at Carneus Beta so the fleet will put up a stronger showing.

Why would Grimrock send a defector over here? Why not someone he's known for longer and that he can vouch for?

She says she's the only one who would be able to find Ean. She had to be along for the ride. There are multiple systems that Ean's fleet could have travelled to and jumping around blindly would waste too much time. For that matter, this is their second attempt at finding Ean's fleet; the first jump didn't pan out. The ship's log seems to verify this statement.

What are you doing on a 2nd Fleet ship?

Second Fleet appeared and attempted to lead Grimrock into a trap set by Delta and Epsilon. In the end they managed to triumph and the surviving Second Fleet ships rejoined the Galactic Assault Force. The Second Fleet ship is being used because only the Second Fleet had ships with a ready generator for the jump. The captain and officers of the ship she came on will verify this statement.

How did you know we'd be here, at the Oran Kappa system, if the rest of Grimrock's fleet doesn't?

She says part of her immortal powers is detection. Apparently the first attempt resulted in her missing you by a whisker, she had to return to Third Fleet to regroup before trying again. She got it right this time. You sense she is not telling the full truth about this, and have the option to press her on it.

Orders from who? The other fleet is much smaller than ours and they no longer have Anhur-Shu, why would they press towards a suicide mission like this without it? Why not attempt to contact us instead?

Apparently Grimrock has decided that in the worst case scenario he is to assume that Ean's fleet has been destroyed. Also, Epsilon and Delta are not yet wiped out, and they are unsure of Beta and Gamma's whereabouts. They feel that they are being cornered. In the last battle, they have lost much of their mobility due to damage to the Sword of Ean which is carrying the Jupiter bomb. They plan to force a resolution if Ean cannot be found. By carrying the bomb to Carneus Beta and threatening to detonate it, they might be able to elicit a response from the Council out of self-preservation, if all else fails. The damage to the Sword of Ean can be verified by battle logs carried on the Second Fleet vessel, but Grimrock's supposed orders can only be sourced from Mere's words.

 

[Baltika9]

Okay, if pressing Mere for an answer is an option, then let's do it. This intrigue of hers is starting to annoy the fuck out of me.

I suppose if we're going to assault the Council with Ean's forces, we might as well awaken Senya to catch the Council in a boarding party. I wonder if Senya can negotiate with Dio for assistance against the Council, like powering down their nanites? Serious question.

 

[treave]

After some rough questioning she tells you that her voices predicted where you'd go and that they've been guiding her. She's not sure how it works herself. It seems that she's telling the truth. She thinks you're a paranoid asshole now. You caught that thought rather clearly.

Also, Senya thinks it's pointless to even ask for such a naive request. At the most they'll lie to him and he has no way of checking whether they did what they promised. Is he going to assume they would do it, trust them on it, and act in good faith? No. It's not an approach worth wasting his time on.

 

[Baltika9]

Does Mere know if the Council is being advised by the voices, or is it just her? We may have gone a little too far with "traitor" theories.

She thinks you're a paranoid asshole now. You caught that thought rather clearly.

Just like Athena: at first she hates us, then she'll love us. Ean has a way of growing on people.

 

[Esquilax]

A in Senya. Let's doublecross Dio. Fuck Dio, fuck him.
A1 in Ean. I say we start with a Ean special: Drop in for negotiations, if those fools don't accept our terms... CHARGE MADDLY TOWARDS THE ENEMY!

First off, I was only speculating that it was Dio. I think I'm right, but I don't know for sure. Second, double-crossing the old man here will be nearly impossible because he controls all the information, so basically he can steer us into whatever direction he likes using vague half-truths. He's accounted for these sort of things. Oh, and don't think that getting out of here will mean leaving without any trouble, I'm sure that this guy has ways to ensure our loyalty - there must be a price for being able to leave so easily. @treave, what will be the price we pay by agreeing to help the old man kill the Observer? Basically, what would be the benefit of having Senya attempting to escape be versus allying with the old man?

As for A1, that totally strikes me as trying to have your cake and eat it too. Either we link up with our beleaguered forces, or we take a chance and try to mount a rescue. Ean definitely has combat skills to take on some Council members that might be guarding Senya, but how will we manage subterfuge when they're expecting us and we don't have an army?

Another thing I was curious about:

Six shadowy figures manifest before me, appearing out of thin air. Even in the harsh, white lighting of the room, they appear to be nothing more than a black, hazy mist in the vague shape of a human being.

Why are there only six figures? There are eight Council members remaining, so where where the other two when we popped up near the Observer?

As for Mere:

“Well, we don’t know. At best he is captured, at worst…” She looks at you, as if challenging me to finish the sentence. The immortal appears to be telling the truth, but there is a veil around the deeper parts of her mind that you cannot penetrate. She appears to be stronger than she looks.
...
After some rough questioning she tells you that her voices predicted where you'd go and that they've been guiding her.

Now I think we know the reason for this "hidden veil". Whatever these voices are, they seem to be pretty powerful and probably unique if they can predict where we'll go. My theory on this is that its the avatar throwing a wrench in the works; he "guides and frustrates" the Council in equal measure, so this could be a subtle manipulation by him to test the League.

I think that for this choice, B is more tactically sound. The Sword of Ean is a sitting duck and it's badly damaged, it seems like it's only a matter of time before the Council attempts to capture the bomb. Without Senya around, it's pretty much our only trump card to provoke the enemy into making mistakes. After getting hit by Vajra Shula, followed by the recent battle with Delta and Epsilon, I am pretty sure that morale is bad. It's a spent force, but consolidating would help greatly. At this point, B is in danger of getting picked off.

If we rescue Senya, it won't do us much good if they end up taking the bomb with them.

 

[Baltika9]

As for A1, that totally strikes me as trying to have your cake and eat it too. Either we link up with our beleaguered forces, or we take a chance and try to mount a rescue. Ean definitely has combat skills to take on some Council members that might be guarding Senya, but how will we manage subterfuge when they're expecting us and we don't have an army?l

I think it could work, if we take Dio's deal as Senya and he really is with the full Council. Taking on Ean and the Marshal's Guard will be difficult enough for them. Throw in Senya and Rei into the mix, if he wakes up in time, and they'll be fucked in the A; nobody in their fleet will dare fire upon the Cuncil. After their defeat, we can just warpjump away.

Of course, if this is just a bluff and Senya isn't there, or doesn't wake up in time, we're done.

 

[treave]

Ean is competent at commanding a space battle. Not brilliant, but good enough. As for Rei, her regeneration ability now outstrips most immortals. She can be captured with a psychic assault but they can't do anything to her physically. Dying is rather hard to accomplish.

Benefit for Senya trying to escape? Uh, you don't know that. Or how, yet. The price to pay for helping the old man? Who knows? You certainly don't, not yet. I'm not sure if I read that question correctly but it seems to be asking me which choice is better for Senya. Can't answer that.

Also I can't see how anyone could reasonably conclude the shadowy figures are the Council. How much evidence supports that theory compared to them being, say, the Masters?

Finally, you don't expect the Council to put all their eggs in one basket and gather in one place for the negotiations. Some of them will be there as the official representatives, speaking for them collectively. Some will be at Carneus Beta. Others might be doing other stuff.

Edit: The Brazilian Slaughter mentioned Shulgi splitting into multiple people. Funny he should say that. An early draft had Shulgi actually split and manifested as all the old bastards controlling Senya's life. Shulgi, Grimrock, Azo etc...

 

[Baltika9]

The tinfoil-hat man mentioned a "Cooper," among others. I assumed he was talking about the Councilmembers. Now, the shadowy figures also mentioned a Cooper. And, yeah, the rest is history.

By the way, it's awesome that you let us play two characters. Feels good to be back in Ean's skin bark again.

 

[treave]

Yeah, the vagueness was planned for that particular update, since "the Masters invite you into their parlour" is definitely something most won't pick, but if they think it's the Council they might have a chance. But once Senya stepped through the door it should have become clear, if not outright stated. Oh well.

Edit: Missed this one. Mere doesn't know much about the Council, the only conversation they make with her is to give her orders.

Senya voting closes in 12 hours. If it ends in a tie I'll have to flip a coin.

 

[Baltika9]

So, coincidence, or the Council's Cooper is a fanboy of the original?
By the way, the Avatar is Shulgi.

 

[Esquilax]

I think it could work, if we take Dio's deal as Senya and he really is with the full Council. Taking on Ean and the Marshal's Guard will be difficult enough for them. Throw in Senya and Rei into the mix, if he wakes up in time, and they'll be fucked in the A; nobody in their fleet will dare fire upon the Cuncil. After their defeat, we can just warpjump away.

First off, I think that trying to synergise the Ean choice and the Senya choice is asking for trouble. Don't metagame between the two - we'll just fuck up that way. They are separate characters, unaware of each other's predicaments, and they need to be considered separately. Second, consider that the Masters have imprisoned Senya's consciousness. Since nothing is free, I think that willingly accepting the old man's offer binds us to him in some way. There is just no way there isn't a catch to this. Also, we came here in search of knowledge and we've been given a bunch of half-truths and lies by someone who might possibly be the most untrustworthy motherfucker in the universe. Looking around might yield some actual answers.

 

[Baltika9]

Wait, if they have Anhur-Shu that means we lost our tech advantage, most likely.

 

[ScubaV]

Senya: A - defeating the IAE sounds like something we'd probably do anyway, and this choice doesn't specify how we go about it or whether we do it, say, after defeating the Masters and/or Dio.

Ean (fuck yeah, although the swapping between 1st and 2nd person was weird): B, something is fishy with Mere. Is she the avatar? Is she Shulgi? Is she a red herring? I don't know, but we need to regain control of the Jupiter bomb, so let's risk it. From our meta-knowledge we know we likely won't need it for the Masters, so we can more convincingly bluff it's use in the regular world.

 

[Tigranes]

Wait, if we can't trust what Mere says, how can we trust that jumping to the Orin thingie (specified in B) is how to rendezvous with Grimrock>?

 

[Esquilax]

Wait, if we can't trust what Mere says, how can we trust that jumping to the Orin thingie (specified in B) is how to rendezvous with Grimrock>?

I actually think she's not lying (mostly) after we've grilled her. Whatever it is that's manipulating her, it's manipulating her through her voices.

Jumping to Oran Iota was in A, though. It's basically a choice of whether we risk trusting Mere, or risk trusting the Council.