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[LP CYOA] Epic

Discussion in 'Choose Your Own Adventure Land' started by treave, Jun 23, 2012.

  1. Kipeci Magister

    Kipeci
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    A.

    While I do want to get rid of the siege tower, this is an opportunity to get rid of one of strongest of the local enemy presence without as much of the risk of those thousands of men killing us.

    We'll just have to hope that the pits and things we dug along with the fires will be enough to stop the tower.
     
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  2. Lambchop19 Arcane Zionist Agent Literally Hitler Batshit Crazy

    Lambchop19
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    Siege tower. Catapults would have been useful there...

    A. is very tempting, we could demoralise the enemy and level up at the same time. But a Gieloth Lord plus 5 troops... If we get captured or die tonight, the fort will fall for certain. On the other hand, if the general is allowed to sneak up on our fort using light manipulation and learns our numbers our element of surprise would be lost. Had we brought Kahrun this would be a more appealing choice as he and his men could take on the scouts while we battled their master...

    B. would be in keepng with our current plan of defeating the babylonians. With a seige tower (assuming that's what it is) they'd be able to roll right up to the fort and all our traps would be useless. Also while we're in their camp we might be able to read someone's mind about the attack.

    I say B. It's a tough choice, but that tower could lose us this battle for sure. We'll probably get another chance at the general tomorrow, should he try to come through the breach he'll no doubt discover tonight.

    Flopped to A.
    edit:
    Hmm. I think we may have backed ourselves into a corner on this one. By opting for traps instead of a catapult we lost our defense against the tower. By leaving Kahrun behind we risk being stabbed in the back while fighting the gieloth. The main advantage to us comming alone was that we could shapeshift and infiltrate the enemy camp. The more I think about it the more it looks like B is the choice we've made and we made it along the way without realising it.

    We chose this path and now we must commit to it or risk utter defeat. My 2 cents.
     
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  3. ScubaV Prophet

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    I'm leaning towards A as well. Killing a (the?) general will dampen their morale and should negatively impact their tactical decisions in the battle ahead. The psychological impact and chaos would mesh well with our trap setup. Not to mention we would then only have to worry about the trickery and powers of a single Gieloth. Between the moat, our pit-traps, and fire traps we might disable the siege tower before it gets to our walls if we're lucky.

    Treave, can Ean tell what substance the tower is made of (i.e. wood)? If so we can prepare some oil or something to light it up if and when it gets to our walls since our elemental powers are quite weak.

    The downside is that now we'll have two potential gaps in our defenses that might need to be plugged by Ean or elite troops.
     
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  4. treave Arcane Patron

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    It looks like wood from here, but there's some metal too. You'll have to get closer to find out more about it.
     
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  5. Bloodshifter Educated

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    See now we can't throw Ean into the fray or defend against the tower great whoop our traps will do *pouts*

    On a side note General is a juicy target and killing him will bring chaos to the enemy army and the soldiers unless they have been modified should pose little threat when we can literally run up to their horses and bowl them over.

    How strong is Ean now after the interlude?
     
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  6. Esquilax Arcane

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    If he sees it and takes the opportunity, then yes. Black tendriled creatures tend to be quite the climbers. I am confident that the general will not go through the exposed northern wall tonight for the same reason we won't go DESTROY ALL TENTACLES!!! all over the camp - because he doesn't want to risk it, and with the manpower he has at his disposal, he doesn't need to risk it. Given how well the traps our dug out, I am hopeful that he won't find anything.

    One thing that comes to mind looking at this Gieloth 'general': When we met Sekhenun and dispatched her relatively easily in combat, she said "I'm not a god of war, I'm a god of science!" Well, judging by the form this Gieloth has taken, I'd say we just met our equal on the battlefield, a true god of war. Having Honorblade at our side and the element of surprise tips the odds slightly in Ean's favour one-on-one, but with 5 guards along with him, things will get ugly. Really wish we brought a band of bros along for a daring assault.

    At this point, at best I see Ean being seriously injured taking this guy out, particularly if he possesses the same toxins that Sekhenun had. There are two Gieloth out there and we can't leave ourselves at a severe disadvantage for the remaining one. I think that killing the general right now will result in a Pyrrhic victory - we'll win the battle, but lose the war.

    I realize that this guy is a juicy target, but we can't look at the immediate benefits, we have to look at the long-term here. Going for the daring move is exciting, but we are in a siege situation, and it is the long-term that favours us. I realize it's not as exciting and dramatic as taking this guy out right now - believe me, I really wanted to vote A initially, but upon further examination, it doesn't seem to be the smart play. I think we should stay the course and focus on our original plan: use the traps to kill off a substantial amount of the enemy forces, then lie in wait for the general at the exposed northern wall. Then we'll be in position to do some serious damage with Honorblade.

    Our traps are designed to kill men, not siege engines. I think that while it would present a bit of a hindrance, it wouldn't be enough to prevent it from really fucking our day up tomorrow.

    Remember people, the battle isn't about tomorrow. It's about every day after it.

    B
     
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  7. Tigranes Prestigious Gentleman Arcane

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    Surely there's a possibility that our traps could derail and bog down the siege tower, depending on the type/strength of traps and the tower? It might be set on fire, its wheels might dig into the pits, or something?

    As Lambchop says, we've made a foolish decision not to bring anyone (since, short of any idiot doing something idiotic, we'd be in the same position now with more options), but it's not so bad.

    Anyway, still thinking. On one hand, if the Gieloth Lord is a 'god of war' type, it might do something even on its own, maybe even infiltrate our fortress or just cause a scene, and we'd want to be there for that. I actually think we have a better chance of taking out the Gieloth completely than we do of taking out the tower completely, as well. On the other, as Esquilax says, having the tower out of the picture is a more attractive proposition for the coming days...
     
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  8. Smashing Axe Arcane Patron

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    B, agreeing with Esquilax here. Would have voted A if we had men with us.
     
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  9. Lambchop19 Arcane Zionist Agent Literally Hitler Batshit Crazy

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    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_tower
    Well, according to an article I read on wikipedia, I think the moat might help against it - however it's possible the gieloth already have a plan to deal with it. I mean the moat wasn't a new addition and it seems the gieloth spent time preparing for this seige based on the tower - which took a lot of time and work to build and transport.

    The pitfalls were dug out to trap humans. Given the size of a seige tower, the wheels could be large enough to span the pitfalls.

    As for the fire:
    It seems the fire was designed to funnel them towards a specific point. Without the defenses of a tower they'd be ripe to be picked off by arrows, but with the tower they could march right up to the front door using the path we had intended for our chariot charge... Ouch.
     
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  10. Esquilax Arcane

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    What I'm saying is, "why fight the general on his terms?" Let him get a look at the exposed northern wall, he won't go through it tonight for the reasons I've mentioned. A Gieloth posing as a general doesn't seem the sort to do things like this on a whim. After all, why bring a siege tower and 8,000 men if you're going to just mop up on your own? When we spring our traps tomorrow, he'll be all clever and think "well, the front door's not an option, the siege tower is down, so I guess we have to go through the side entrance". At that point, we fucking hammer him.

    This game will be played out in the long-term, and the longer things go, the better things are for us.

    We wouldn't need to destroy the tower completely. Rendering it inoperable for several weeks will more than suffice, because they can't exactly just chill over there. Ean's physical abilities are his greatest asset - remember when we assaulted Sekhenun's stronghold that we had the opportunity to ram down the gates with our fists. And now he's even stronger now because of the Honorblade. All we'd have to do is light the sword ablaze with our elemental abilities, then go to town on the motherfucker. We'd be in and out in a second given our bro's speed.

    According to treave, the Gieloth have some method of short-range communications, so I'm hoping that he gets a distress signal before he gets a good look at the traps. By the time he returns, we'll be long gone.
     
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  11. ScubaV Prophet

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    Alright, you guys have made some good arguments. B.
     
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  12. oscar Prestigious Gentleman Arcane

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    A. The damage to their morale and leadership seems more useful.
     
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  13. treave Arcane Patron

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    Yup, it's called talking and writing. :troll:
     
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  14. Lambchop19 Arcane Zionist Agent Literally Hitler Batshit Crazy

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    :notsureifserious:
     
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  15. m4davis Scholar

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  16. kazgar Arcane

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    You're underestimating a benefit of A. Sure taking out the general gieloth is important, but its more important for _none_ of the scouting group (all 6) to come back. Or if they do, its before they get to work out what they're up against. If they're unable to scout out defenses they won't see the fire/pit traps before daylight and one trap may be enough to break a axle/set fire to the tower, or they won't know about the breach, or they won't know the composition of enemy forces.

    Its a bigger advantage then knowing all that, and not having the tower, as then the traps won't be a surprise, and they know they have a 6-1 numerical advantage.

    If you can stop all 6, they'll also have the morale loss of the general and his squad (who may be known to be somewhat superhuman) as well as the fear of the dark/unknown. do they send out a bigger/well armed scouting group, or do they just wait to daylight? All these work in the defenders favour IMHO more than the tower itself. We have traps they don't know about, and a moat with crocodiles they don't know about, what the day does to the tower is yet to be determined.

    edit: and if you do go after them, and one make it back (and we survive) all they'll have tales about is some sort of superhuman/demigod out there in the dark helping the defenders, sowing fear in the minds of many.
     
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  17. Esquilax Arcane

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    kazgar: And I think you're underestimating the downsides of A. As the update said, we came here recklessly on our own so we have to be aware of our limitations. Since we're on our own, we need to rely on our strengths given the situation - that is, being able to inconspicuously wander into the back of the camp and destroy the tower before anyone realizes what's going on.

    I believe that with the Honorblade, we can beat the general and the scouts. But the battle would leave us drained and potentially severely injured, a Pyrrhic victory at best. As I've stated, this guy is probably not the pushover in combat that Sekhenun was. This Gieloth is a warrior, just like us, so we can't take him lightly, especially when there's another Gieloth to deal with afterwards. If we want to kill both of them, we're going to have to be a bit more clever than that.

    But let's say you're right, the scouts come back and report that the place is booby-trapped; well, that doesn't make them any less fucked. Without a siege tower, their only option would be to throw enough men at the wall in hopes that the men at the gates will break. If they don't find the traps, that's better I guess, but my point is they won't have a choice but to deal with them regardless of whether they know about them or not if the tower is destroyed.

    There's more than one way to sap their morale. We aren't going to break their spirit in a single day here. The most effective and safest way given our situation is to rely on attrition once the traps have taken out a large number of their men. One of the few advantages our army has against the Babylonians is that we're located near the Nile Delta and we have a great network of civilian logistical support. We can send people out to gather food and supplies easily, the Babylonians can't. They have to feed an army six times larger than ours, and that army is very far from home. As the days draw on further, their morale will sink.

    To win this thing, we should try to think one step ahead. What are we going to do tomorrow? The day after, etc?

    This is how I picture tomorrow happening:

    We remove the siege tower without any fuss tonight (infiltration and sabotage should be easy since we're on our own) meaning their men must traverse through the traps on foot, sustaining heavy casualties. There are 2 Gieloth leaders among the enemy, and at this point, they probably know about the exposed northern wall. An initial plan will potentially look like this: One Gieloth leading the Babylonian soldiers into the gates, the other sneaking in through the north wall to stage a surprise attack, which is where we'll be waiting. Battles are always chaotic, and there are variables here, but I feel that B makes the siege far more easy to predict, and stability is something we desperately need given what we're up against.

    With option A, there are way too many question marks. What if the siege tower shrugs off the traps, which seems very likely based on Lambchop's reasoning? What if we're really hurt and can't fight at 100% because much like Sekhunen, this guy has abilities that nullify our regeneration? It's a serious gamble.

    Now, I am also taking a chance here too, but I feel it's more of a calculated risk: I'm betting that the Gieloth general won't decide to breach the northern wall when he and his scouts notice it. It's a big risk to take, but I feel that it's also a reasonable, calculated risk based on the facts at hand. He has 8,000 elite soldiers and a siege tower in preparation for tomorrow, so it doesn't follow that he would all of a sudden go on a solo killing spree into the fortress if he's brought so many strong, disciplined men with him.
     
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  18. kazgar Arcane

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    Pretty easy to disable/go round traps when you know about them, and they can spend a day or so doing it, and then they've been totally nullified, and the whole funnelling aspect is lost, so the superior numbers can be applied to the whole fort even without the tower.

    I agree the general probably won't go in the breach this evening, but who's to say he can't transport in more than just himself using his powers, if a brigade of soldiers come with him through the gap, Ean sitting there waiting for him may not work. It would be better if he doesn't find out about it, and better again if he heads out into the darkness and never returns.

    Even if we're down for a day or two killing him, we may delay the advance for a similar amount of time, battleplans to be redrawn, enemy strength to be scouted/re-assessed, even a minor sortie to work out whats going on.
     
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  19. Lambchop19 Arcane Zionist Agent Literally Hitler Batshit Crazy

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    Well, E beat me to it, but I'll post anyway...

    Even if they knew about the traps, it still wouldn't help them assault the fort if they have no siege tower - which as we've discussed would allow them to bypass the majority of our traps.

    Towers such as these are very difficult to create and to transport. They wouldn't have brought it if it wasn't the crux of their battle-plan. Destroying it would be a greater blow even than the loss of a general - who btw would just be replaced by the other gieloth.

    Even if we took out the general and damaged their morale the 8000 Babylonians would still have 1 gieloth that could enter through the breach and 8000 elite, battle-hardened troops that could assault our fort with relative ease thanks to the tower. Their plan would be unaltered and we would be screwed.

    edit: and you can't "disable" pitfall traps or "go around them". They're like mines. Unless you know where each one is and put little flags on them, someone is bound to fall into one.
     
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  20. kazgar Arcane

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    We can't send telepathic messages right? If we could, should send a message for someone to get the guard to stand on the ramparts with some torches and arrows, y'know, just cos. If they can keep him/them away by more conventional means, B becomes a better option.
     
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  21. Lambchop19 Arcane Zionist Agent Literally Hitler Batshit Crazy

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    Nope we can't send. Seku said she'd have to fuck up our brain to do that.

    edit: oh, but that was just with the gieloth... Anyway, we've never done it before, so even if we could there's a good chance we'd just be broadcasting to everyone that could hear.
     
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  22. Zero Credibility Arcane

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    A

    Traps will still be effective even against the tower. All it takes is for one wheel to fall into a pit and given the weight of the thing they will never get it out in time. Yes, there is a clear path to our gates, but they don't know that. And if we take out their scouts now, they won't even know there are traps at all - they will send in the tower first, and their troops in cover behind it - right into our traps. There is also the matter of our moat - they will need to fill it up before getting that thing to our walls. Not an easy task with our men throwing stones and arrows at them, not to mention those crocodiles.

    This general guy is smart - not at all lazy like we thought and probably a big factor in their success so far. We need to take him out now - yes, he has 5 bodyguards, but we do have element of surprise and our weapon on our side. Those 5 bodyguards won't last a few seconds against us, and then it will be one on one. A general against general. It's the best odds we'll get to take that bastard out.
     
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  23. Azira Arcane Patron

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    Even though I think tentacles should die, I'm for disabling the siegetower as well. We don't have any other means to, this is our one chance. The general will present himself again eventually. Probably during the battle.

    B
     
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  24. Lambchop19 Arcane Zionist Agent Literally Hitler Batshit Crazy

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    That depends on the tower happening over a pitfall trap large enough for it to get stuck in. What if it avoids them or rolls right over because they are too small?
    But they will when we light the fire traps. They'll get "funneled" straight in.
    We actually don't know that the general is the one who's truly in charge here. He could just lead the troops into battle and the guy in the tent is the genius formulating all the plans.

    Even if he is the smart one and we take him out, his plan will still be carried out virtually unchanged. B forces the enemy to radically alter their strategy.
     
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  25. newcomer Learned

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    Fine, you guys have convinced me to flop to B.

    I'm concerned that our traps will not hit the siege tower, and that's more fucked up than having a few tentacles entering through the breach

    And we can always place more surprises on the breach, since normal soldiers won't likely get through the crocodiles
     
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