In Progress [LP CYOA] Tower

[Absinthe]

A lot of what people said about boots can also apply to books, and vice versa. Absinthe, we have no good reason to be sure that any one of these items will be exceptionally amazing or useless, as you said yourself. It would be easy for a book to end up an item with no practical use much of the time, but people are picking it on the hope that it's not just ancient history.

No, you've got it wrong there. I'm actually fine with it being ancient history, since I'm pretty sure our learning opportunities for "history of ruins we will probably continue exploring" are pretty scarce. As lambchop19 pointed out a while ago, treave's loredumps are still pretty useful things, although I sooner imagine it leading to some sort of skill boost. There's a reason I'm emphasizing this being a learning opportunity that's hard to come by over the book being some kind of h4x super-item. I only mention that sort of thing when people seem to be trying to hype up boots without any reference. Meanwhile, if all three items end up being mundane items, the other two aren't very handy.

Similarly people are hoping the boots are a bit more than a third hand Converse. It's a bit disingenious to play up the possibilities of the book being exceptional while downplaying the boots as just comfortable shoes we'll wear for a year. It would be like me saying that the boots will surely be a Boots of 60 ft. Jumping while the books are probably old fiction tracts.

Now you're just disingenuously misframing my argument. Baltika9 made a deal out of the boots being useful because they're comfortable. So I made a counterpoint on that front on why that isn't a good reason to go for boots here. That doesn't mean I'm suddenly gaslighting now, thanks. I did in fact discuss the possibilities of it having magical capabilities of various sorts. I then followed it up by noting that those abilities don't strike me as particularly essential for our character in the ways that eye-glasses would be or put us ahead in ways that the book would.

This is some kind of mysterious archival system of unknown purpose that yielded these three items for us, whether because these are astras and the crystal ball 'scanned' us, or because of some other system. Either way, it's clear that the three items are roughly similar in their 'power level' and we are choosing what kind of stuff we prefer.

Okay, that warrants a Yuhe Finger comparison again. We had 3 options back then too, and they clearly weren't all of equal value. The assumption that just because we have 3 choices any choice must be as good as the others is a logic that doesn't hold true in treave CYOAs. Sure, they will each have their upsides and downsides, but that doesn't mean the "power level" and value is the same for all 3 choices. Choosing intelligently does matter.

 

[Tigranes]

just because we have 3 choices any choice must be as good as the others

That's clearly not my reasoning, though, is it? We get zero information about any of these items, even a cursory glance at what they look like. There's really not much to assess in order to make an intelligent guess. We are a 10 year old who went into some ruins with zero knowledge and now we're starting to wonder if this place really has astras like that douchebag kid said. For all we know it's a cursed book/boot of gender change. It's different than a CYOA choice where we know something about the person we're persuading, for example.

I think if the items turn out to be completely mundane, then yes, the book may be marginally more interesting. If the items turn out to be astras or something special, then I think boots suit us a lot better, though I can understand people who still like the book.

Meanwhile boots will... what? Make us go faster? Move more silently? Jump higher? We can already do basic stealth, and for speed/acrobatics what we really need is to fix our bum leg first. Boots appear to be the most short term in their benefits. We can get comfortable shoes without wasting our pick here, and you know that.

I don't see any actual argument as to why boot-powered stealth, jumping, mobility, speed, wouldn't be a long-term benefit that works very well with our character archetype. The only valid argument I see is that "comfortable shoes" isn't the biggest deal. I mean, sure. Baltika gonna baltika.

 

[Baltika9]

We get zero information about any of these items, even a cursory glance at what they look like.

CappenVarra brings up a salient point: treave, how Gucci are those boots?

They look rather comfortable.

There is that.

If the items turn out to be astras or something special, then I think boots suit us a lot better, though I can understand people who still like the book.

I actually agree with this. If the rumours about 'find an astra, go straight to knights, do not pass go, do not collect $200' are true, then a pair of comfy boots will be a godsend through basic training, especially since these guys are Russian Imperial soldiers... I think.

I mean, sure. Baltika gonna baltika.

Why, Tigranes, what do you mean?

 

[Absinthe]

That's clearly not my reasoning, though, is it? We get zero information about any of these items, even a cursory glance at what they look like. There's really not much to assess in order to make an intelligent guess. We are a 10 year old who went into some ruins with zero knowledge and now we're starting to wonder if this place really has astras like that douchebag kid said. For all we know it's a cursed book/boot of gender change. It's different than a CYOA choice where we know something about the person we're persuading, for example.

You said that "it's clear that the three items are roughly similar in their 'power level' and we are choosing what kind of stuff we prefer." So that does seem to be your reasoning. I pointed out that we have examples of being presented three choices on what we get which were not of a roughly similar power level (the Yuhe Finger vote's martial arts learning options being "highly powerful finger technique we can't use yet," "the killing physician's poison needle technique," and "the pacifist physician's kicking technique" - the last one somehow won), so it does in fact help to contemplate which option would be better. That doesn't mean we get a lot of information on our choices, sure, but it does help to try to choose intelligently.

I think if the items turn out to be completely mundane, then yes, the book may be marginally more interesting. If the items turn out to be astras or something special, then I think boots suit us a lot better, though I can understand people who still like the book.

I'd honestly go so far as to say that the book would be the only good loot if they turn out to be mundane items. And if they're astras, a magic book strikes me as a lot more handy than a magic pair of boots.

I don't see any actual argument as to why boot-powered stealth, jumping, mobility, speed, wouldn't be a long-term benefit that works very well with our character archetype. The only valid argument I see is that "comfortable shoes" isn't the biggest deal. I mean, sure. Baltika gonna baltika.

The argument I made is that stealth, mobility, and speed are more contingent on us healing our legs and then developing those stats and skills, which we are inclined towards doing regardless. So the main point I raised there is that "Yes, these boots might help us do those things, except we'll end up being good at those things anyway, so those boots won't make a decisive difference." Meanwhile eyeglasses would probably let us notice special things we'd otherwise miss and the book would probably let us upgrade skills, mental stats, or learn some kind of unusual lore that we'd otherwise miss. If it's a magic item, then the book is most likely going to have some fun powers alright. Also, if the boots do have stealth powers, they are probably not going to let us camouflage or something. They would help us move more silently, which isn't something you need magic powers for.

So my my overall point is "the boots are most likely to help us do things we could handle without them, so we should either gun for direct boosts (learning from a book) or unusual capabilities (eye-glasses) over boots." It feels like boots are the item we are most likely to ditch for a better item later (like a better pair of boots), rather than being an item that keeps delivering benefits all the way.

 

[Life of the Party]

Flopping to E. Take none of them.

 

[hello friend]

oh no imagine picking an option without minmaxing

Huh? If anyone is min-maxing here, it's you. Min-maxing is all about overspecializing to a ridiculous degree so you can be a game breaker in some respects while trying to avoid anything that's outside the narrow comfort zone you define for your character. Are you defining min-maxing as "trying to do the smart thing?" Is that what you're upset about?

That's just semantics bruh. You understood what I meant, which is that you're trying to go for the "optimal route". Which is fine. I'm also fine with a result that ends up being ultimately less useful if it leads to interesting opportunities. If you always go for the smart option, there's a lot of encounters you'll never have, is how I see it. As for min-maxing, my voting has been all over the place, so I'm not sure why you'd say that.

I agree with you that the book has the highest chance of providing maximum benefits. I just don't care.

 

[Egosphere]

Take the boots and hide

 

[Kipeci]

I think it’s easier to keep the boots on our person without having to make space, harder to have stolen from us and can buttress an area where we’ve developed a relative weakness due to getting mangled by a monster versus perception and intellect which are doing fairly well about now. Even if it is mundane, I don’t intend to stick around for forever and the portability and utility of the boots is fine... and I imagine we’ll get more of a kick out of them so to speak than the girls would.

treave are our feet all the same size if we could all conceivably claim the same boots? Are they bigfoots (bigfeet?) in disguise??

 

[Absinthe]

That's just semantics bruh. You understood what I meant, which is that you're trying to go for the "optimal route". Which is fine.

Sure.

I'm also fine with a result that ends up being ultimately less useful if it leads to interesting opportunities. If you always go for the smart option, there's a lot of encounters you'll never have, is how I see it.

Hey, I'm all for pursuing interesting opportunities. I just prefer to think ahead in terms of what creates the most interesting opportunities. I'm all for picking the interesting option over the "best" option. The biggest reason I trend towards jack-of-all-trades types characters is because they have the widest variety of interesting opportunities while the Bull Hunter for instance would've been more narrowly specialized, which struck me as less fun. It wasn't because I thought a jack-of-all-trades is somehow more powerful or more optimal than a melee monster. But it does happen that if you want to develop a breadth of interesting options you need to be smarter about it so you don't just end up overall mediocre. And it's precisely because boots appears to have the least potential of opening up interesting possibilities that I don't like it. More speed, more stealth, better jumping... that kind of stuff doesn't strike me as opening new doors for us that we wouldn't naturally develop anyway. It certainly makes us more powerful though, at least in the short term, assuming the boots do those sorts of things.

As for min-maxing, my voting has been all over the place, so I'm not sure why you'd say that.

I mean in this vote, you're voting for an option to try to boost dex and stealth, which are capabilities we already possess and will most likely upgrade regardless. So it's got that "max out this one thing, by minimizing investments into other things" decision-making that we call min-maxing for short.

I agree with you that the book has the highest chance of providing maximum benefits. I just don't care.

It's in part about seizing opportunities (like a rare learning opportunity), but it's also about what's most likely to enable opportunities for us (that's the "optimal" perspective I take to it - how well does it help us do things we couldn't otherwise manage?). Whether it's a lore dump that helps us figure out ruins later on, a new skill or special talent, or a martial arts manual like treave originally indicated, it seems to add capabilities to our character. The same goes for the eye-glasses, whether it gives us special reading powers, lets us see things we normally can't see, and so on, it seems more likely to really add something instead of just augmenting existing capability. Whereas all I hear about boots is "more stealth, more speed, more jumping."

 

[ItsChon]

Can someone tally the votes and post them so we can see where everyones at?

 

[Baltika9]

*dramatic sigh*

===Poll===

==1st choice==
A - 8
B - 8 (10)
C - 0
D - 3 (1)
E - 1

==2nd choice==
A - 3
B - 17

votes

Baltika9 - A A
Absinthe - A>D>C B
Nevill - AB
Lambchop19 - AB
ItsChon - A>D B
Zerafall - AB
baud - AA
Esquilax - AB

CappenVarra - BB
hello friend - BB
Grimgravy - BB
asxetos - BB
oscar - BB>CB
ERYFKRAD - BB>DB
Egosphere - BB
Kz3r0 - BB

Tigranes - DB>BB>CB
Azira - DB
Kipeci - D>B A

Life of the Party - EB

 

[baud]

A

One thing about the boots is whether they are of the right size for us. And if we can wear them now comfortably, it might not last long considering our age. And if they don't fit right now, what are we going to do? Lug them around until they do?

A

 

[baud]

*dramatic sigh*

===Poll===

==1st choice==
A - 5 (3)
B - 9
C - 0
D - 4 (6)
E - 1

==2nd choice==
A - 2
B - 17

votes

Absinthe - A>D>C B
Nevill - AB
Lambchop19 - AB
ItsChon - A>D B
Zerafall - AB

CappenVarra - BB
hello friend - BB
Esquilax - BB
Grimgravy - BB
asxetos - BB
oscar - BB>CB
ERYFKRAD - BB>DB
Baltika9 - B>A A
Hemisphere - BB

Tigranes - DB>BB>CB
Azira - DB
Kipeci - D>B A
Kz3r0 - DB

Life of the Party - EB

There's also Egosphere, who voted BB, but didn't bother to write it like the others

 

[Kz3r0]

Final flop to
B
the boots
This should settle it, take the boots and hide.

 

[hello friend]

A

One thing about the boots is whether they are of the right size for us. And if we can wear them now comfortably, it might not last long considering our age. And if they don't fit right now, what are we going to do? Lug them around until they do?

A

Astras can be reshaped. If the boots don't fit us we can just get a cobbler to make them a little bigger.

 

[a cut of domestic sheep prime]

oh no imagine picking an option without minmaxing

Isn't the boots side the minimaxing side?

After all, you're thinking that they will be some kind of boots that will make up for our bumb leg (and assuming they won't be hindered by it), but when I said the book might a lore dump or very useful I got scoffed at.

There's no way to minmax at this point. We have no idea what any of these items do.

What we do know is that there is a book written by the people that built this place right in front of us, that it's important and possibly very powerful.

We also know that there are boots and spectacles that are also likely important and powerful.

Consider the utility of each item and ask which might be more important, especially considering that we already have shoes and don't need spectacles.

I'm not maligning the choice of the boots. I would pick them second. But an ancient book written by people who can construct a structure we can scarely even imagine - to the point where we are wondering if God built it - is infinitely more valuable than a pair of their boots.

 

[Nevill]

ancient book written by people who can construct a structure we can scarely even imagine

What if it is a porn mag hidden by the warehouse staff?

Consider the utility of each item and ask which might be more important, especially considering that we already have shoes and don't need spectacles.

We already have books. I am not putting off Poe to read some boring ancient manuscripts!

I am voting for the book, and have been from the beginning, but I don't really give a toss about secret knowledge. I am just doing it for a chance of a book companion, since out of the three it's the only one that can potentially respond to our inquiries, having words. In that case I am voting for it because I do not know what it can or can't do.

If I knew it definitely can't do this very specific and very unlikely thing I am angling for, I'd choose something more practical. Our hunter boy understands the worth of a pair of good shoes, ancient manuscripts not so much.

 

[a cut of domestic sheep prime]

After all this, I really hope those knights come in have a conversation like, "hey, Fred, you know that room with the artifacts, come see what I did. I put these three pieces of junk I had in my footlocker on the pedestals. People will think they're Astras! Imagine how funny it will be when someone tries to use my old boots or that diary a dropped in the pond and ruined like a weapon. Hahaha!".

 

[Baltika9]

But an ancient book written by people who can construct a structure we can scarely even imagine - to the point where we are wondering if God built it - is infinitely more valuable than a pair of their boots.

Serious question: assuming that we and the girls stay together, what is preventing us from asking them for a read later, if it is indeed a source of ancient knowledge? It obviously own't be free, but not impossible.

After all this, I really hope those knights come in have a conversation like, "hey, Fred, you know that room with the artifacts, come see what I did. I put these three pieces of junk I had in my footlocker on the pedestals. People will think they're Astras! Imagine how funny it will be when someone tries to use my old boots or that diary a dropped in the pond and ruined like a weapon. Hahaha!".

Then the pair of comfortable, well-maid tarpaulin boots is obviously the best choice!

 

[Tigranes]

After all this, I really hope those knights come in have a conversation like, "hey, Fred, you know that room with the artifacts, come see what I did. I put these three pieces of junk I had in my footlocker on the pedestals. People will think they're Astras! Imagine how funny it will be when someone tries to use my old boots or that diary a dropped in the pond and ruined like a weapon. Hahaha!".

I'm expecting Andrew to come in, Scotty's blood fresh all over his face, wielding his Sword Astra and demanding that we surrender all the loot.

I mean, at least I'd then have some respect for the guy.

 

[ItsChon]

Sadly it's looking like the boots are going to win. When do we lock it at BB.

 

[Nevill]

Serious question: assuming that we and the girls stay together, what is preventing us from asking them for a read later, if it is indeed a source of ancient knowledge? It obviously own't be free, but not impossible.

Several things.

If it is an Astra, those are synched to the user. I would assume someone not synched wouldn't gain much from it.
We are not guaranteed to keep the items, or at least not all of us are. We have the benefit of being a protagonist, and a sneaky git with no social connections, who wouldn't boast about having a book and have it confiscated.*
And of course, we aren't guaranteed to stay together, or even in the village.

* how much do you trust Scotty to keep it a secret from his dad who is with the expedition? If he gets caught, we are all getting shook down for anything we might have taken.

 

[Grimgravy]

I'm thinking the book is the item most likely to be confiscated by any authorities we run into. Boots and glasses should appear to be of less value and thus be less likely to be taken from us by these knights.

 

[Baltika9]

Sadly it's looking like the boots are going to win. When do we lock it at BB.

Whenever treave calls it...so is anyone actually willing to flop to 1A, or are we just circlejerking?

 

[a cut of domestic sheep prime]

Serious question: assuming that we and the girls stay together, what is preventing us from asking them for a read later, if it is indeed a source of ancient knowledge? It obviously own't be free, but not impossible.

This is a treave lets play. We don't usually get to have our cake and eat it too.

Maybe we get separated, maybe it can only be read by the one it's bonded to.

I could just as easily ask what's to stop us from borrowing the book or the spectacles from them? Get real, dude.