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Magic the Gathering Arena

Scruffy

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Codex 2012 Torment: Tides of Numenera Codex USB, 2014
And to answer your question - blue gets the "pass" because it's the _only_ way it can make things go away.
Red can't make enchantments go away. Why doesn't it get a pass on those?
Green can't deal direct damage, why doesn't it get a pass on that?

The point isn't what X can or can't do, the point is that the color wheel is supposed to be a game of rock/paper/scissors in theory, but in practice, blue has always been the best color because if you put permission and bounce in the deck that also has the card advantage, you get a color that, when you combine it with another color that fixes blue's deficits, has too many advantages compared to other colors. Only blue has permission + card draw. Add removal, and things become unfair.

Also, when I say bad design, I mean that you should always be able to play your cards, any mechanics that doesn't let you play your cards is simply bad.

So, play my creature, it dies to terror -> good
I never get to play the creature -> bad
 

Telemetry

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Red can't make enchantments go away. Why doesn't it get a pass on those?
Green can't deal direct damage, why doesn't it get a pass on that?

I don't agree with either of you about ''passes''.

Are multicolored decks forbidden all of a sudden?
As you say, use one color to cover the shortcomings of another. A feature that was in the game since day 1.
No need to give passes that way.

Don't focus on the details, look at the big picture.

As I said, a deck needs resources, threats, answers and ways to deal with variance. If in a format red has the best threats, black the best answers and blue the best filtering then you can't act surprised when the dominant deck is fucking Grixis.

All this circlejerking about counterspells makes me feel like I'm hallucinating in seeing the things I see
 

Axioms

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Excellent write-up spectre.

I find this kind of behavior and way of thinking rather childish and very different from how people on this site usually approach RPGs.
Take as an example Fallout 1. There are optimal ways to play the game if you want to beat it.
- You know that by taking better criticals at lvl 9 and then sniper at lvl 18 you will be an unstoppable killing demigod. Let's say you choose to neglect Speech.
- But if you disregard the shooty shooty stuff and chose to be a speech 30000% char you will get your ass handed to you in combat.
- If you focus on gambling instead and disregard both combat and speech you will have a sub-optimal char that sucks at everything.

in the first case, do you complain that the speech checks are too many and ruin the fun?
in the second case, do you complain that the super mutants are OP and should never have been in the game?
in the last case, do you complain that the game is broken and all those people that finished the game are try-hards and goddamn it you want to play your game your way?

No, cause you are a rational human being and you know that the game has rules that govern its systems. You know that in any ruleset there are bound to be more optimal or, shall we say, ''better'' ways to play and progress because that's just how life fucking works. Some things are better than others. So you adapt, either play in a way that let's you finish the game or play your way but being full aware that you might not beat the thing.

Back to Magic.
In case you haven't noticed Magic has a thing called land cards. Just by them existing Magic becomes a back and forth resource management game between you and your opponent. Who can get the most out of their limited resources and defeat the other guy.

Let's say one guy has 60 creatures with haste that can kill in one hit. The other has 60 counterspells. for the sake of argument let's say both are priced at 0. The game will go on until the guy who played second loses the game because he can't draw any more cards. Which deck was better? None and both.
The creature guy decides to put 30 counterspells of his own. Suddenly he wins every time. He can get one of his dudes to resolve and now he can just cruise to victory.
The counterspell guy then decides to put 30 creatures of his own but adds some destroy target creature type of spell. The matches suddenly became more complex and skill intensive (not by a much but still).

Add resource management to the mix and suddenly you have a card game that managed to stay relevant for 30 years.

You need ways to win the game but you need ways to stop your opponent from winning the game before you do. Creatures are the only card type basically that can do both of those things. They can switch roles at a whim. The game could have just as easily been all about creature combat. I would have hated it, the way I don't like limited, too much combat math that I don't find interesting. Luckily Garfield gave us more than that. He gave us effects that can get rid of such a flexible solutions that don't involve direct confrontation.
Example: lightning bolt in red, swords to plowshares in white, doom blade in black and, Yes, my attentive reader, counterspell in blue.
But if you look carefully at counterspell it has no power and toughness, it doesn't do 20 damage to the opponent, it doesn't win you the game by itself. A counterspell is a strictly reactionary card, designed to be a part of this resource management dance between you and your opponent.

Which is better, Nissa, shaker master or a counterspell? Pretty obvious in a vacuum, Nissa wins you the game, a counterspell does jack shit. But in the context of this aforementioned dance the answer is: it faking depends. Is the opponent way behind and if he can resolve the nissa he will pull ahead (the dance)? Then the counterspell is infinitely better because it denies your opponent additional advantage that could lead to your loss. Is the opponent ahead and the Nissa is just another nail in the coffin? Then you can pretty much wipe your ass with the counterspell because it doesn't matter if you counter or not. It just became worthless.

This dance, the resource management, you can divide in other smaller dances such as card advantage, board presence, variance (kinda) and so on that each influence eachother and matter during a match.

Good decks are finely tuned resource harvesting machines. You need a blend of resources (lands), threats (creatures and/or spells), answers (removal, counters, enchantments etc.) and tools that decrease variance (variance being randomness) to be able to win.
Variance is much more relevant for midrange/control because they are an answer based deck low on threat density, they need to find the right answer when it's needed. Speaking of legacy because that's what I'm familiar with, the best tools for that are fetch lands and the dastardly duo of brainstorm and ponder. A control deck in legacy runs 19-20 lands, half of them being fetch lands, a land that can't produce mana, just because those three tools are so good at decreasing variance. In historic you need to run 27 to not miss land drops, which cuts 7 slots from your threat/answer pool while still having enormous variance.

With all that said, ''counterspell decks'' don't exist, ''discard decks'' don't exist. There exist good and bad decks trying to achieve the ultimate goal of winning the game through whatever means the player deems to be the best or more in tune with his preferences.

A deck with only counterspells is a bad deck and your deck is even worse if you lose to such abomination.

In short, git gud

EDIT: sidenote for people that still hate counterspells, play legacy. Run aether vial and allosaurus shepherd. Never worry about a counterspell ever again.

Man, I wish everyone played legacy

Imagine not understanding the key and obvious difference between Fallout and MTG. So many words from an unbelievably dumb person.
 

anvi

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I think counters are op but not blue as a whole. Also there's having a deck with a few counters to protect your big stuff, and having a deck full of counters that wants to lockdown the whole game. I think what most people hate is the first one, because the second one is hard to make work. I tried it, you can have 100 counters but it wont stop them playing some 1 mana cards on turn 1, especially if they go first. If they go first they got a couple of turns before you get any counters, unless you use the 2 mana counters which are kinda shit because you can draw the essence scatter when they play a pw and you get the negate when they play game ending creatures. You can maybe bounce stuff back later but if you are having to save 3 mana to stop them playing even more stuff... as well as trying to bounce things already in play, then it is pita and you are probably gonna lose half the time. And there are a lot of 1 mana cards now which can become pumped later just by milling or whatever. So really you need to have a bunch of removal as well as counters, and then you start getting removal when you needed counters and vice versa. And then you gotta have enough draw to make sure you can counter at least once every turn... which is easier said than done. And adding removal and draw means less counters.

It is pretty legit if you can make that shit work long term. But the first deck is the one I think screws most people. That one counter that completely stops your big 6 mana game changer. I think there are way too many counters although I seem to get an easier time now than when that Simic flash counter deck was everywhere.

Disagree, the second one is the problem and it won worlds or w/e within the last 2 years. Blue/white control with sweepers. You can easily sit in mythic with control as a normie player as well. The problem with control is it is anti-fun. The same way land destruction is. The problems with the 2 are incredibly similar in fact. So if LD is bad then control is bad. If anything I prefer LD. But only one was gotten rid of.

If people had 4 counter spell cards in a deck no one would really care. You'd only draw half in a game on average and typically only one early on.
Mythic sounds boring now, I've beaten most counter decks I've faced so far, but I haven't seen a blue/white one yet. The only uw decks I see are the same copy pasted Yorion deck which I normally beat. The ub deck usually beats me, drown in the loch is so powerful and I can't use it myself because it needs mill and mill sucks. I would vote for removing counters though and replacing them with something funner. I think it is as simple as that. LD I don't mind if it is a few in the deck to take out some overpowered lands, but LD decks should be banned for being anti-fun too.
 

anvi

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I agree there are cards that are game ending but I don't think counters are necessary. I rarely have any counterspells and do fine, there are such powerful removal cards. I sometimes use a few discards which are almost as good as a counterspell. There is the card which instantly ends the turn, that's even more powerful than a counterspell. Bounce could be improved, bring back the suspended bouncers, reality acid, etc. One of the most powerful blue things is stealing shit, but they got rid of the Agent and Mass Manip, and replaced them with 1000 counters :|
 
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anvi

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Also if there is something that is too powerful to even be played, then that is the problem. I used to hate shit like Emrakul popping out on a polymorph. They know how to make cards that aren't ridiculous, they just need to do that more often. I mean a 4/4 angel used to be a game ender, now there 10/10s that exile stuff all over. They should tone that shit down.
 

Gyor

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I got on another winning streak tonight, partly because I get stuck with much counterspelling and partly because I've been tweeking my Purphoros deck. Added stuff like Arcane Signet, that colourless creature that can be tapped for 2 colourless mana, the artifact creature that puts a land on the battle field when it enters it (some one bounced it on me the other day, I was like thanks), Klothys Fury (the card draw/exile one), Mind Tome, Ugin, I have that knight who draws a card when she or a sorcery/instant spell deals damage to a Player, I have Bond Land that allows me to draw a card.

One cool think to note is Fires of Invention's cap on spells, 2 spells per turn & spells can only be cast on your turn, does not effect the activated abilities of Purphoros or Dream Shaper, so those can get you more/new creatures on the battle field.
 

Gyor

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I agree there are cards that are game ending but I don't think counters are necessary. I rarely have any counterspells and do fine, there are such powerful removal cards. I sometimes use a few discards which are almost as good as a counterspell. There is the card which instantly ends the turn, that's even more powerful than a counterspell. Bounce could be improved, bring back the suspended bouncers, reality acid, etc. One of the most powerful blue things is stealing shit, but they got rid of the Agent and Mass Manip, and replaced them with 1000 counters :|

The still have that Saga that starts by adding a 8/8 Kraken with hexproof, then taps all your enemies, and then if they aren't dead by the third lore counter permanently steals one of their creatures. Just brutal. Worse if they have a lithicore to back it up with.
 

Scruffy

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Codex 2012 Torment: Tides of Numenera Codex USB, 2014
Red can't make enchantments go away. Why doesn't it get a pass on those?
Green can't deal direct damage, why doesn't it get a pass on that?

I don't agree with either of you about ''passes''.

Are multicolored decks forbidden all of a sudden?
As you say, use one color to cover the shortcomings of another. A feature that was in the game since day 1.
No need to give passes that way.

Don't focus on the details, look at the big picture.

As I said, a deck needs resources, threats, answers and ways to deal with variance. If in a format red has the best threats, black the best answers and blue the best filtering then you can't act surprised when the dominant deck is fucking Grixis.

All this circlejerking about counterspells makes me feel like I'm hallucinating in seeing the things I see

No, multicolored decks are not forbidden, but the color that gives you card advantage will (generally) always be preferable to the one that pumps creatures instead
 

spectre

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Also, when I say bad design, I mean that you should always be able to play your cards, any mechanics that doesn't let you play your cards is simply bad.

So, play my creature, it dies to terror -> good
I never get to play the creature -> bad

So we should agree that this is what it boils down to, isn't it? The rest of the argument is making irrelevant noise.

Mechanically speaking you did play the creature (if you're looking for "cannot play" effects white should be your culprit, no talk about thouse being unfair though),
it simply didn't resolve and enter the battlefield. You can argue that it's splitting hairs, but Hydroid Krasis (another good play vs. counterspells, btw) is one example where it becomes relevant.
There are also other cards that trigger when stuff is cast and counterspells can't prevent that.
Still, if a thing gets countered, the end result is pretty much the same as with all other forms of removal - one card was traded for one card which is the most basic interaction happening in all card games,
and there really isn't anything outlandish about it. It's as fair as it gets - I play my Ace and it trumps your Queen. Perhaps I should hold them back for your Kings instead?
It's fair to say that in a deckbuilding game all cards can be Aces, but thankfully, in MtG Aces can be overrun by twos, threes, fours and fives.

But I digress, the point is, what you're being robbed of by blue is the comes into play effect on the countered spell. Not saying it's irrelevant, but in a typical case it pretty much is.
I already talked at length about how blue is paying extra for the "privilege", so no sense in repeating myself. It's a matter of balance, and we were not discussing balance.

What I would like to contest in particular is the sentiment that you are somehow not playing the game.
Of course you are.
(But it doesn't feel like I'm playing the game.)
Well, nobody cares for your belly-feels.

What it boils down is: it's your turn the opponent has three untapped mana, at least one blue. What do you think is going to happen?
You can decide - I will play my card and possibly trade one for one. A lot of people default to this each game, and what we get is wailing and gnashing of teeth.
Still it's not a bad play if the plan was to run them out of counterspells,
so let's say you do it anyway, but the card wasn't countered (a rare phenomenon, I know, but I was actually there to witness it).
This is where the information warfare starts:
Was the other guy bluffing? Did he let it slide? Why?
Was it not threatening enough? Perhaps he alt-tabbed to watch hentai and missed the reaction window.
See, you are still playing the game, but it's a different game now, with both players working with uncertain information (unrevealed cards in hand).
The control player is playing it as much as you do, because they don't have any idea about what other threats you have and what's your plan for the next turns.

Or, you can decide: I will not play the card this time. One could argue that it's playing the control player's game,
but this depends entirely on the boardstate you will achieve next turn. If an additional land drop allows you to play two cards in a sequence, not committing a card and waiting for a stronger board position
might put you at an advantageous position.
It's even better if you have alternative lines of play - are there any activated abilities you can commit the mana to? Perhaps you have an instant on hand
you can use if the other guy taps out at some point?

This is all "Playing Against Control 101". The idea that you're somehow prevented from playing by three untapped lands is inane.
You can still make decisions which can affect the outcome of the match. If it feels like you're not playing, you either do not understand what's going on,
or your pile od cards is crap because it doesn't allow you the flexibility to play around this problem. If both are the case, we have a recipe for disaster.
However, it's within your own capacity to solve both of these issues (that being a more convoluted way of saying "git gud").

However, I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt and assume you know how to play this game, so let's start wrapping this up.

Since the original argument is about good design/bad design, here's the other point of view: the important function of counterspells is that they break up the play pattern
of play land, tap lands, play something with all the mana. Since MtG is a game of resource management, it's a strong line of play and a very efficient way of working your way towards winning,
which means we should all be doing this and build our decks to facilitate this style of play. This is what the concepts of mana curve and curving out come from, and
they are obviously the game's fundamentals.

So, the existence of counterspells breaks up this pattern, you are no longer able to snowball into larger and larger threats, because after some point
(i.e. when counterspells become cheaper than shit you're playing) you will start being at a disadvantage.
So, instead of the default mode of play being - vomit all my shit onto the board asap, you suddenly need to make decisions about NOT playing shit
(it appears to be the problematic point for some folks out there for some reason).
This alone is enough to add another dimension to the game. Instead of just getting more lands out to play better stuff,
you need to consider another resource: cards in hand. If we keep trading card for card, who gets the most cards wins in the end.
Having a catch all answer (counterspell) at three mana also serves as an important threshold in the game.
Everything more expensive than three mana needs to be carefully considered or it might become a liability in your deck,
at the same time cheap cards at one and two mana keep being relevant.

Could the same thing be achieved with just removal? Yes and no. I say yes, because, basically speaking, counterspells are removal, so it's tautology. I say no because MtG allows many angles of attack
(design wise, it's one of the strongest points of this game), and for a healthy state of the game you need counterplays to match potential plays. The answers can't be too narrow,
because if you are always forced to find the right answer to a wide variety of threats, a much better line to play is simply to ignore the opponent and focus on your own game plan.
This degenerates the game into what you can already see in Bo1 (especially in historic), and the feeling that matches are decided by who goes first.

Therefore, the game also needs catch-all answers to stay healthy, which means counterspells also need to be a thing.
You might not particularly like them if you simply want to tap all your mana, play stuff and turn them sideways, but this is a very shallow way of playing the game.
 

Scruffy

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Codex 2012 Torment: Tides of Numenera Codex USB, 2014
ah, thanks for teaching us mere mortals that you shouldn't empty your hand and that curving out exists, still not the point though

you can achieve balance without resorting to catch all cards. Permission and removal are not the same things, and guess what, the way a game "feels" is, in fact, important, despite your attempts at being cool and edgy. If I don't feel like I'm having fun, then the game is a failure, because that's what a game is supposed to achieve. Putting a deck together, janky or not, and then having to wait for some ridiculous clown after every play to see if he will let the spell through is not fun. Putting a deck together and then having to wait while my opponent does stuff that puts my whole deck in the graveyard is not fun. Putting a deck together and being unable to play it because my opponent is destroying all my lands is not fun. Et cetera.

I wasn't even talking about CIP effects, I literally meant, playing a creature, a vanilla creature, having it resolve and die to removal feels fairer than it never coming into play. I don't care that the end result is the same (two cards in the graveyard), one feels like we're playing back and forth, the other is the equivalent of WOW or HOTS pvp, where the height of exchanges is getting stunned, then rooted, then silenced, then feared, and hey you're dead. That was fun.

Non-interaction is not fun when it comes to games. You need to be able to "feel" like you're part of the game, otherwise what's the point?
 

spectre

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Ah yes, feelings. Let's drop a salty tear for the poor counterspelled vanilla creature who never lived to see the light of the battlefield.
Perhaps we could fashon a tiny little token gravestone to remember it by?
Will it count as a permanent for Ascend?
It's also important, by the way.

I don't think there's any reason to drag this on. De gustibus non est disputandum. I gave you the mechanical framework which justifies counterspells. I gave you examples of interacting with counterspells.
Mostly indirect, but there are direct ones as well, I'm sure you can fugure those out.
If you insist your "feelies" are enough to write this off as "bad design", I have nothing further to add.
 

anvi

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I agree there are cards that are game ending but I don't think counters are necessary. I rarely have any counterspells and do fine, there are such powerful removal cards. I sometimes use a few discards which are almost as good as a counterspell. There is the card which instantly ends the turn, that's even more powerful than a counterspell. Bounce could be improved, bring back the suspended bouncers, reality acid, etc. One of the most powerful blue things is stealing shit, but they got rid of the Agent and Mass Manip, and replaced them with 1000 counters :|

The still have that Saga that starts by adding a 8/8 Kraken with hexproof, then taps all your enemies, and then if they aren't dead by the third lore counter permanently steals one of their creatures. Just brutal. Worse if they have a lithicore to back it up with.
It can actually steal any permanent! It is probably my favorite card :P But I still haven't made a good deck around it yet. I put it in as a finisher though.
 

spectre

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It can actually steal a permanent! It is probably my favorite card :P But I still haven't made a good deck around it yet. I put it in as a finisher though.
You may want to check the Obosh UGR ramp thing. It's strictly better than regular UGR ramp because it doesn't play Ugin. Kiora Screwing with Sea God fits right in as a decent game-ending effect. I have 2x in the SB.
Overall, it's rather competent against all the yorions, GR and mono green food, Rogues kept it down, so it might not be the best deck to play if you are still seeing a lot of those.

If you liked bashing people with powerful spell after spell with Fires, this one should be right up your alley.
 

anvi

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It can actually steal a permanent! It is probably my favorite card :P But I still haven't made a good deck around it yet. I put it in as a finisher though.
You may want to check the Obosh UGR ramp thing. It's strictly better than regular UGR ramp because it doesn't play Ugin. Kiora Screwing with Sea God fits right in as a decent game-ending effect. I have 2x in the SB.
Overall, it's rather competent against all the yorions, GR and mono green food, Rogues kept it down, so it might not be the best deck to play if you are still seeing a lot of those.

If you liked bashing people with powerful spell after spell with Fires, this one should be right up your alley.
Thanks I think green would help for sure. Although I just played against a red black deck that owned me so easily I may have to copy it.
 
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Bob Ross lands codes:

DelightfulMeadow

IslandWilderness

TreeFriend

MoveMountains

HappySwamp
Those are good shit. The only one I'm not that wild about is the plains and don't care much about the forest (It's still good though), but the island, mountain, and swamp are all excellent. Only thing that would sweeten the deal even more is if they had the old borders, but can't have it all.
 

Gyor

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I spent a wild-card and got Ox of Argona, it's great against heavy mill oppentants, they mill it, I bring it back triggering it's escape, only 2 mana and it brings card draws with it.
 

Akratus

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Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy Insert Title Here Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
MATCH.jpg

This was an interesting match to say the least.
 

spectre

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Thanks I think green would help for sure. Although I just played against a red black deck that owned me so easily I may have to copy it.
That deck has one good trick - turn three Cocksa with Village Rites, or snag a guy with Claim the Firstborn then follow up with the same finish. It's great when you get to pull this off,
and once you do, the deck should start running really smoothly, but can feel rather crappy when you draw stuff in the wrong order.
It's a good choice if you see a lot or mill and rogues which pretty much do all the heavy lifting for you, though it can still be embarrassing if you accidentally mill yourself with Tymaret calling the dead or Mire Tritons.
The removals do a good job blasting shit out of the sky together with any crabs.

Mono green and GR will beat you silly, even though it's counter-intuitive with all the removals, just spare yourself the indignity, unless you are willing to board heavily against it.
You're going to need Shattered Sails and Akroan War, because a resolved Great Henge is not something you can compete with, similarly, there's not a lot you can do about an established food engine,
especially when Wicked Wolves start messing with your stuff. I've seen people side in Eat to Extinction as well, but it's horribly inefficient.
 

anvi

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Still reeling by how bad my BR deck was, jeez. I don't think I've ever failed so hard in this game. I went back to my usual. It kinda sucks having to climb all these ranks again. And I hope when they ask if you enjoyed the match with those little smiley faces... that when I have a sad tearful victory, they get my point.
 

anvi

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Thanks I think green would help for sure. Although I just played against a red black deck that owned me so easily I may have to copy it.
That deck has one good trick - turn three Cocksa with Village Rites, or snag a guy with Claim the Firstborn then follow up with the same finish. It's great when you get to pull this off,
and once you do, the deck should start running really smoothly, but can feel rather crappy when you draw stuff in the wrong order.
It's a good choice if you see a lot or mill and rogues which pretty much do all the heavy lifting for you, though it can still be embarrassing if you accidentally mill yourself with Tymaret calling the dead or Mire Tritons.
The removals do a good job blasting shit out of the sky together with any crabs.

Mono green and GR will beat you silly, even though it's counter-intuitive with all the removals, just spare yourself the indignity, unless you are willing to board heavily against it.
You're going to need Shattered Sails and Akroan War, because a resolved Great Henge is not something you can compete with, similarly, there's not a lot you can do about an established food engine,
especially when Wicked Wolves start messing with your stuff. I've seen people side in Eat to Extinction as well, but it's horribly inefficient.
Thanks! I tried my own version and it was terrible! I love some of the cards and mechanics though, and they seem to really want to help you make this deck work! I mean Fling is just so perfect, and Village Rites too. But there are loads of sac engines and loads of steal until end of turn spells. I even got myself a few Taborax and Fiend Artisan. Transmogrify is pretty good too.

But I need to redo it. I think it was just way too slow and way too lacking in draw. I was all prepared for like 1 creature per turn after about turn 2 :P But the game is so intense now I need to be prepared for 2 creatures on turn 1. I would love to try adding green.

My other decks are much stronger though. There is also one I really want to make but it is a huge investment. I probably wont make it, I hate getting wiped out of wildcards.
 

spectre

Arcane
Joined
Oct 26, 2008
Messages
5,595
Thanks! I tried my own version and it was terrible! I love some of the cards and mechanics though, and they seem to really want to help you make this deck work! I mean Fling is just so perfect, and Village Rites too. But there are loads of sac engines and loads of steal until end of turn spells. I even got myself a few Taborax and Fiend Artisan. Transmogrify is pretty good too.

But I need to redo it. I think it was just way too slow and way too lacking in draw. I was all prepared for like 1 creature per turn after about turn 2 :P But the game is so intense now I need to be prepared for 2 creatures on turn 1. I would love to try adding green.

My other decks are much stronger though. There is also one I really want to make but it is a huge investment. I probably wont make it, I hate getting wiped out of wildcards.
Well, I was fucking around with this deck idea around when Omnath wasn't banned yet. You can indeed take it places, but I'm not sure if it will deliver the results considering the wildcard investment.
For example, I briefly tried to run it as UBR, with the blue stuff being Mystical Disputes (for omnath) and Sea-Gate Stormcaller.
He was pretty good when you could double a duress, or removal, not bad when you doubled Village Rites, but same as I said above, not great if you didn't get the cards in exactly the right order.
Also, never really cast it with kicker. I think they overshot the cost a bit.
Still, I could reuse stormcallers in historic for neostorm combo, so it wasn't that bad of a craft in the end.

Sacrifice outlets shouldn't be a problem. You have Village Rites which is a card that needs a bit opf getting used to, you have Woe Strider, and there even is a Fling acting as a tapped mountain. Weaponize the Mosters too, in a pinch,
though I really miss Makeshift Munitions in standard.
When it comes to card draw, BR can do that with Magmatic Channeler, so check those guys out if want to diddle with it further. Still, it eats the precious rare wildcards and just dies to an unkicked Bloodchief rather shamefully.
Decent midrange dude otherwise.

Another direction to take BR it is add food engines and try to re-create GBR food without cat/oven. Korvold is still in standard, and can still beat like a mofo. Didn't try it personally, cause I played with and against this shit too much.

If you just want something strong in general, mono green food is really great in Bo3, its bad matchups are close to even, and has really consistent performance overall. I nearly got to mythic with it last season, but work stuff prevented me
from doing the final grind for the last six pips. If you played a bit of stompy back in Eldraine, you should have most of the pieces for it. Eats quite a few rares, but can be flexible with substitutions.
 

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