Magic the Gathering Arena

[anvi]

Yeah the problem with bouncing a counter is that eventually the bounces stop and most decks can play more than 1 card each turn anyway, especially after a while. It would probably be better to just focus on stealing shit. I would love having the Fae and the Ego though. I plan to make it soon but I need some more rares.

That new fires deck is so obnoxious. It is like HURR I have a deck with 30 planeswalkers and I'm gonna play them all at once. I feel like they should be more careful with combos like that because it makes such a huge variance between new players and old players. Without that you still find older players with good decks yet beatable. But with this combo it's kind of impossible to face a deck with that many PWs and them all getting played quickly.

 

[Dawkinsfan69]

This fucking MLG gamer making me wait all day every turn because he disabled auto-tap

also hit me with pro moves such as: holding full control with 0 cards in hand

 

[Multi-headed Cow]

I see no reason why you shouldn't have turn 3 Oko into turn 4 questing beast into turn 5 Nissa into turn 6 8/8 krasis, I see NO REASON AT ALL.

 

[lukaszek]

deterministic system > RNG

 

[Doktor Best]

I see no reason why you shouldn't have turn 3 Oko into turn 4 questing beast into turn 5 Nissa into turn 6 8/8 krasis, I see NO REASON AT ALL.

Yeah Oko is souring my mood for standard a bit right now. Even more important to kick WOTCs butt so they implement pioneer in Magic Arena. The game will fail without proper support of a permanent format.

 

[anvi]

Which do you guys think would win the most?

Fires with the Bolas + Planewide Celebration combo
https://www.streamdecker.com/deck/eQ7Z8BYQ

Steal shit:
https://aetherhub.com/Deck/Meta/180056 /

Spoiler

Deck
3 Teferi, Time Raveler (WAR) 221
2 Island (ANA) 57
4 Growth Spiral (RNA) 178
2 Hydroid Krasis (RNA) 183
3 Deputy of Detention (RNA) 165
4 Agent of Treachery (M20) 43
4 Elite Guardmage (WAR) 195
3 Knight of Autumn (GRN) 183
3 Justiciar's Portal (RNA) 13
4 Hallowed Fountain (RNA) 251
4 Temple Garden (GRN) 258
4 Breeding Pool (RNA) 246
1 Tranquil Cove (M20) 259
1 Blossoming Sands (M20) 243
1 Thornwood Falls (M20) 258
1 Forest (ANA) 60
1 Pulse of Murasa (M20) 189
1 Cavalier of Thorns (M20) 167
1 Quasiduplicate (GRN) 51
2 Plains (ANA) 56
3 Risen Reef (M20) 217
4 Charming Prince (ELD) 8
2 Fabled Passage (ELD) 244
2 Temple of Mystery (M20) 255

p.s. I saw a powerful card today I've never seen before, Silent Submersible. In a strong control deck it is like +1 card draw every turn for 2 mana. At least for a while.

esper control deck with kaya+ashiok combo as a win-con

Did you ever manage to make this competitive? I made that exact deck but I couldn't do very well with it. Maybe it's just me but I find Esper Control to be one of the weakest forms of control :/ It is what my control deck is and I can win plenty but other control decks wipe the floor with me. I really want to make that Kaya+Ashiok combo work though. One game I hit the opponent for about 30 damage and heals me at the same time.

 

[Multi-headed Cow]

Really torn about doing the fancy border event. I do really like the alternate art for the storybook cards, but spending 2,500 gold for an event where the prize is alternate art rubs me the wrong way since they've been doing alt-art events for free for a while. 2,500's not a ton of gold, but even the fucking brawl event was 1k and included actual cards and not just styles.

 

[lukaszek]

deterministic system > RNG

 

[Dawkinsfan69]

Really torn about doing the fancy border event. I do really like the alternate art for the storybook cards, but spending 2,500 gold for an event where the prize is alternate art rubs me the wrong way since they've been doing alt-art events for free for a while. 2,500's not a ton of gold, but even the fucking brawl event was 1k and included actual cards and not just styles.

>Making me pay to play mormir, except instead of mormir it's oko-mir

Yeah WOTC can suck my fat pony cock

Which do you guys think would win the most

IDK what would win more but the fires deck looks like the most fun. I think that ali dude usually makes really good decks too so I wouldn't be surprised if it did very well. The sideboard + fae seems strong because you could potentially wish for an appropriate card in any situation.

Did you ever manage to make this competitive? I made that exact deck but I couldn't do very well with it. Maybe it's just me but I find Esper Control to be one of the weakest forms of control :/ It is what my control deck is and I can win plenty but other control decks wipe the floor with me. I really want to make that Kaya+Ashiok combo work though. One game I hit the opponent for about 30 damage and heals me at the same time.

Do you have all of the rare lands required? 3-color decks especially absolutely need a spot-on mana base in this standard and if you don't have that you'll lose a lot of games just due to not drawing the proper lands.

Spoiler

2 Kaya, Orzhov Usurper (RNA) 186
3 Oath of Kaya (WAR) 209
2 Ashiok, Dream Render (WAR) 228
4 Thought Erasure (GRN) 206
4 Teferi, Time Raveler (WAR) 221
4 Time Wipe (WAR) 223
4 Narset, Parter of Veils (WAR) 61
4 Murderous Rider (ELD) 97
3 The Elderspell (WAR) 89
2 Liliana, Dreadhorde General (WAR) 97
4 Thought Collapse (RNA) 57
4 Hallowed Fountain (RNA) 251
4 Godless Shrine (RNA) 248
4 Watery Grave (GRN) 259
4 Fabled Passage (ELD) 244
3 Swamp (AKH) 262
2 Plains (AKH) 256
3 Island (AKH) 258

I haven't played a ton of matches with this, and it can probably be improved, but it's beaten Esper dance, Grixis control, some Oko-based decks, and it basically steamrolls non-meta decks. Vs aggro it can be kinda hairy; if they have a nice draw and you get unlucky you'll just lose but that's kinda how it always is in control vs. aggro.

 

[Multi-headed Cow]

i no longer worry about spending gold, just do it

Two and a half packs though. Nearly half a rare wildcard! Thinking I may opt out just because even though I like the art I don't care two and a half packs worth for bling. I'd have to spend 9k gold in the shop if I wanted to scoop up more/the rest of the storybook frames/art anyway. Plus however much more for the upcoming events.

>Making me pay to play mormir, except instead of mormir it's oko-mir

Yeah WOTC can suck my fat pony cock

That isn't the first event rolling up though, first one's common and uncommon cards only with bread-cat, millrats, cavalcade and gates ablaze banned. Which probably would be fairly decent to play.

 

[spectre]

Which do you guys think would win the most?

Fires with the Bolas + Planewide Celebration combo
https://www.streamdecker.com/deck/eQ7Z8BYQ

Steal shit:
https://aetherhub.com/Deck/Meta/180056 /

That bolas + celebration thing is a Field of the Dead deck, so I figure it's a bit late for the party.
It will lose to aggro a lot. It's only game against that is dropping the Fae to block.

Stealing shit won't do a whole lot of stealing without adding green for ramp. Heck, there isn't even a mana rock in there to speed things up.
Without any sort of ramp, it takes ages to get to 8 mana, which is when Ass Manipulation gets decent.
Also, no early interaction. Waiting for Time Wipe to save your ass in an aggro meta is not a good place to be. You might not even live that long on the play.

p.s. I saw a powerful card today I've never seen before, Silent Submersible. In a strong control deck it is like +1 card draw every turn for 2 mana. At least for a while.

It could remind you of the actually good cards like Copter's Smuggler and Curious Obsession. People remembering the glory days of mono U tempo can get dreamy-eyed about.
Copter obviously it isn't, and it falls short to be a working Obsession ersatz. I'd say it might even be slightly worse than Rogue's Gloves.

Biggest problem - the submarine doesn't have any evasion and all our dreams of gretness fall short, because pretty much any creature out there can trade with it.
Big part of the appeal of the cards cited above was that you could slap it on a 1/1 flyer and start rolling.

 

[anvi]

That bolas + celebration thing is a Field of the Dead deck, so I figure it's a bit late for the party.
It will lose to aggro a lot. It's only game against that is dropping the Fae to block.

I thought as much. My control netdeck was awesome against control and died so easy against aggro. I had to completely change it to be competitive. Although it waters the control aspect down so I can handle aggro but I struggle against better control decks :/

Stealing shit won't do a whole lot of stealing without adding green for ramp. Heck, there isn't even a mana rock in there to speed things up.
Without any sort of ramp, it takes ages to get to 8 mana, which is when Ass Manipulation gets decent.
Also, no early interaction. Waiting for Time Wipe to save your ass in an aggro meta is not a good place to be. You might not even live that long on the play.

I hoped the Agent for 6 mana might be able to swing it mid game, especially with cloning him. But the speed of it worried me too.

p.s. I saw a powerful card today I've never seen before, Silent Submersible. In a strong control deck it is like +1 card draw every turn for 2 mana. At least for a while.

It could remind you of the actually good cards like Copter's Smuggler and Curious Obsession. People remembering the glory days of mono U tempo can get dreamy-eyed about.
Copter obviously it isn't, and it falls short to be a working Obsession ersatz. I'd say it might even be slightly worse than Rogue's Gloves.

Biggest problem - the submarine doesn't have any evasion and all our dreams of gretness fall short, because pretty much any creature out there can trade with it.
Big part of the appeal of the cards cited above was that you could slap it on a 1/1 flyer and start rolling.

Yeah I don't think I could make it work, but the guy who played it against me got to attack with it a lot. He had so much removal, he would nuke my creature or board wipe and I think he had Afterlife creatures so he could tap them and attack same turn and kept drawing cards :/

 

[anvi]

IDK what would win more but the fires deck looks like the most fun. I think that ali dude usually makes really good decks too so I wouldn't be surprised if it did very well. The sideboard + fae seems strong because you could potentially wish for an appropriate card in any situation.

Yeah I always wanted a fae deck but it seems too slow. But with fires... it is like unlimited mana.

Did you ever manage to make this competitive? I made that exact deck but I couldn't do very well with it. Maybe it's just me but I find Esper Control to be one of the weakest forms of control :/ It is what my control deck is and I can win plenty but other control decks wipe the floor with me. I really want to make that Kaya+Ashiok combo work though. One game I hit the opponent for about 30 damage and heals me at the same time.

Do you have all of the rare lands required? 3-color decks especially absolutely need a spot-on mana base in this standard and if you don't have that you'll lose a lot of games just due to not drawing the proper lands.

Spoiler

2 Kaya, Orzhov Usurper (RNA) 186
3 Oath of Kaya (WAR) 209
2 Ashiok, Dream Render (WAR) 228
4 Thought Erasure (GRN) 206
4 Teferi, Time Raveler (WAR) 221
4 Time Wipe (WAR) 223
4 Narset, Parter of Veils (WAR) 61
4 Murderous Rider (ELD) 97
3 The Elderspell (WAR) 89
2 Liliana, Dreadhorde General (WAR) 97
4 Thought Collapse (RNA) 57
4 Hallowed Fountain (RNA) 251
4 Godless Shrine (RNA) 248
4 Watery Grave (GRN) 259
4 Fabled Passage (ELD) 244
3 Swamp (AKH) 262
2 Plains (AKH) 256
3 Island (AKH) 258

I haven't played a ton of matches with this, and it can probably be improved, but it's beaten Esper dance, Grixis control, some Oko-based decks, and it basically steamrolls non-meta decks. Vs aggro it can be kinda hairy; if they have a nice draw and you get unlucky you'll just lose but that's kinda how it always is in control vs. aggro.

Thanks for the list I will try I have most of the lands but need to throw in a few scry lands instead of the true dual lands. I've also only got 1 Liliana and 1 Time Wipe but I have 4 kaya's wrath so I'll try it. I guess I should finish my rare land collection, that 2 life for instant land is nifty.

 

[anvi]

i no longer worry about spending gold, just do it

Do you mostly play unranked for gold? Or standard event? I was making thousands of gold from the standard event last week and this week has gone to shit. Not sure why. I think the fires netdeck flavor of the month is one my deck struggles against, and there are some new aggro decks I need to tweak for.

 

[anvi]

I just played against a deck that was cool, I wish I made a note of all the cards. But basically it is Ill-Gotten Gains and some Ravens, and he uses Doom Foretold to help with removal and sacs his own enchants if needed, and then used Dance of the Manse to bring it all back. He didn't even need 8 mana, he just used 6 mana and brought them all back as enchants. And he used some Surveil to discard them for manse too. I thought it was gonna be crap but when you are being hit for 4 every turn it starts to seem less of a joke. I still won though.

edit: I tried it, meh. It works but just not strong enough against insane aggro with embercleave and whatnot. I was proud of myself for putting Drill Bit in there though, 1 mana discard because the Ill Gotten Gains damages them each turn no matter what. Fun

 

[anvi]

Bought myself a couple of Ugin. I wanted to make something new but it made my existing deck so much stronger. I was getting annoyed at losing money on Standard Event or holding about the same amount. I need to win 4+ games on average for it to be worthwhile. Preferably getting 6 wins for the rares.

I haven't played a ton of matches with this, and it can probably be improved, but it's beaten Esper dance, Grixis control, some Oko-based decks, and it basically steamrolls non-meta decks. Vs aggro it can be kinda hairy; if they have a nice draw and you get unlucky you'll just lose but that's kinda how it always is in control vs. aggro.

That deck is really good! I can't play with it because I need a few rares but I can already tell it is strong. The Elderspell is my favorite part. I hardly ever use that because I rarely have more than 1 or 2 PWs, but in this deck with all those PWs it is a great call.

 

[anvi]

Just beat a guy with a Mythic Championship 2019 sleeve

He was no pushover either. He had that deck with the green enchant that untaps all your lands at the end of each turn, so he could do massive nukes. But I have a doom foretold deck which I guess is one of his worst match ups.

 

[lukaszek]

deterministic system > RNG

 

[anvi]

Thanks, I've been playing nothing but Standard Event and I was winning 6 on average for ages, but now I lose more than I win. I will just play unranked instead, at least the gold I get there costs nothing. My red deck got way stronger since getting a Torbran though so I can still use that for standard event. It wins a lot. I think it would win 6 or 7 on average if I bought a couple of torbrans but I spend everything on my more fun decks :p

 

[lukaszek]

deterministic system > RNG

 

[Multi-headed Cow]

Opened my fourth goddamn circle of loyalty so I've dicked around with it a tiny bit. Not terribly exciting, the passive for generating tokens doesn't work all that well if you're going balls-deep on some knights (Since you aren't playing many legendary cards since you're wanting to shit out a bunch of knights) but giving everyone +1/+1 and being a super-Adanto for a manasink to shit out tokens is fine. Except Oko exists so all creatures and artifacts are now elks. If only I could play field of the dead and swarm the fucking elks with zombies instead. Been trying out Luka's cat bakery list (Changed slightly to fit my cards, like only having 2 copies of stormfist crusader) and that's good fun though. Cat decks are enjoyable since there's a lot of room to squeeze extra bits of power out of 'em via play, like blocking before shoving the cat into the oven, etc. Sorta feels aristocrats (Especially the ones with priest of forgotten gods) which is another thing I tend to have a lot of fun with.

 

[Jason Liang]

Was looking at some Pioneer decklists, Fires of Invention Land Destruction caught my eye. Seems like a perfect fit for Fires.

Fires of Invention
Demolish
Tectonic Rift
Rubble Reading
Deathsprout
Ritual of Soot
Escape to the Wilds
Casualties of War
Be(deck or dazzle)
Fin (d or ality)
Ravager Wurm

With Planeswalkers for win conditions and I guess something for mana sink, etc...

 

[anvi]

I made a Fires deck yesterday, it is insane. I noticed I had won lots of PWs that I wasn't even using because 1 of each is no good for other decks. But in a Fires deck it is perfect so I made it. My first game I ended up with 8 planeswalkers in play! Other guy ended up surrendering. It is super fun to play because it is different every game, but I am only winning about 50% so far :/ Aggro decks tend to wipe the floor with me before I can get set up. But if I am up against another control deck then it is a pretty sure win. After Fires comes out, I can Fae of Wishes any planeswalker and play it same turn. You can only play 2 spells per turn but when you have a bunch of PWs out you start playing with those instead of playing cards. Like I use Ugin or Liliana (or both) to make a 2/2 or Mu Yanling to make a 4/4 flyer, and then I use Vivien to pump them, Narset to draw, Teferi to bounce something or draw, all in one turn.

Ideally you want to get Nicol Bolas out and then use Planewide Celebration for an instant win but I haven't achieved that yet. You still need a lot of land to be able to play the celebration and getting PWs out early and have them survive is easier said than done. Because against all these Oko type decks that have a hand full of Questing Beast and endless 3/3 attacking lands, it is hard to get established. I also played against one guy who had a full set of Mortify and Assassins Trophy and kept killing my fires and PWs, he ended up winning after a 40 minute game :/ But mostly any deck that doesn't win fast is gonna lose against fires.

I think I can improve it by getting some more Deafening Clarion which is the best way to survive early game. I'm also using Kayas Wrath which doesn't really fit, I would be better with Time Wipe but I only have 1. I also only have 1 bolas, it would be better to get rid of all my lesser PWs and replace them with a bunch of Bolas.

p.s. I tried to get clever and I added a Lazotep Plating to give all permanents hexproof. I wanted it to save my Fires from removal because the deck is fucked once that is gone. But it doesn't work because Fires means you can only play cards on your own turn.

 

[Jason Liang]

Probably best with some Duresses or Thought Erasures

 

[Jason Liang]

Anyone tried Fires with Theater of Horrors?