Magic the Gathering Arena

[lukaszek]

deterministic system > RNG

 

[spectre]

Another terrible day :/ I am gonna have to give up on my esper control deck. It used to be great but now it loses too much. I made a Wilderness Reclamation net deck but that loses too much as well. If I get to turn 6 ish I can nuke them for 500000 damage but all these Questing Beast decks own me long before that point. I did ok against cavalcade decks because Flame Sweep hits everything for 2 which is great. But those Questing Beasts... I had to use two Flame Sweep and then he just played another beast :/ I ended up having to use my Explosion on it but he killed me with a wolf next turn. I like the deck but I can't see it winning much.

This archetype seems to have risen from the dead as an anti-deck for Oko+Nissa. I wouldn't put too much hope on it otherwise, because anything running Teferi + Narset combo really shits hard on this. I haven't really tried it recently, but it left a bad taste in my mouth
because all my matches vs. mono red were a disaster.
If questing beasts specifically are a problem, your only solution in this color pair is to counter it or pack extra Lava Coils. If you can fill the graveyard reasonably well, Bacon Bolt may be worth a shot as a 1-2x.
It's always possible to focus on ramping towards Niv Mizzet, but he seems much less intimidating when he first came out. Being uncounterable isn't as big of a deal as it used to.

If you have any, be sure to try some Electrodominance in this shell, I remember it was super fun putting shit to play on instant speed, THEN untapping like nothing happened.

No Drawn from Dreams is really screwing me too. If I get 4 of those and a few more Bolas... this deck will be uber. I found a netdeck that is similar which helped me make some tweaks but it still doesn't do too well. It seems good but it also seems like you need a bit of luck to get discard and counters before oko/nissa. I also just played against an oko/nissa deck who had Bolas Citadel so even when I countered him, he just cast another one with his life.

https://decks.tcgplayer.com/magic/standard/chris-lamell/grixis-control/1362796

Did you try Chemister's Insight / Tamiyo's Epiphany as a sub? Don't obsess too much about DfD, I actually consider it a very poor card and its only saving grave is avoiding Narset.
It is only good if you can play it for free, or discount it with a God-Eternal. Sure it digs deep, but sorcery speed for basically two cards is the very definition of meh.
I think would feel physical pain if I were to craft it card after card, so I was quite happy to get a full set by drafting.

I will tell you straight off the bat, that deck is a horrible pile. No boardwipes (any thing that can go wide will fuck you good, also anything aggro, because you rely on 12 fucking shicklands without packing Enter the God Eternals which is one of the few decent lifegain options for UBR).
The win conditions are slow as hell. And I firmly believe that you should start removing Duresses before you go down to 3x Erasure in Bo3.
Don't even get me started about running all the shitty three mana milling counterspells. You're not winning with mill here, so I guess it's there to enable two copies of Drown in the Loch. Sure. Sounds like a plan. At least put 1-2x Into the story to pretend you're going for synergy.
Final nail to the coffin is 25 lands with no library digging at 1-2 mana. You shouldn't really go below 26 in a deck that doesn't really want to miss any of the first five land drops.
I mean, if you can get results with it, I will be genuinely impressed, though Bolo might be awesome enough to carry it from time to time.

If you want a dedicated discard deck (every guy needs a little bit of this in their life), three mana counterspells are a no-go (one or two is fine, but ffs, not seven), because you can't discard and keep counter backup until turn five.
You actually want to rely on the conditional two mana stuff - Negate, Disdainful Stroke, Drown in the Loch. This means starting from turn four, you get into a comfortable position in which
you pick the composition of the opponent's hand depending on the counterspell you have.
Also, recognize you will have a bad time vs. aggro decks, because they're used to play the game in topdeck mode and they might actually be happy when you lose all that tempo on trying to disrupt them.
Finally, when going discard, you want shit that doesn't take forever to kill a guy, because the advantage you get from successfully disrupting a guy will go away eventually. Doom Whisperers come to mind, Kefnet is also a natural fit
with many synergies.

 

[lukaszek]

deterministic system > RNG

 

[anvi]

Yeah I gave up on that deck pretty fast. I don't know how the hell decks like that get anywhere in a competition. I lost almost every game with it. I removed most of the counterspells and replaced them with board wipes and removal and I am actually winning some now, like 50% ish. But it still sucks :/

 

[Jason Liang]

I'm still pissed that I blew all my wildcards on historic

Is Oko going to get banned? Should I wildcard a playset now?

 

[Multi-headed Cow]

I'm still pissed that I blew all my wildcards on historic

Is Oko going to get banned? Should I wildcard a playset now?

There'll probably be a window between the ban announcement and the actual ban like with field of the dead, so I'd play it safe. Or just craft a playset because he's busted as hell and in the eventuality that he DOESN'T get banned you'll probably want him regardless.

 

[Dawkinsfan69]

i hope they never ban him so I can hear people bitch for 2 years

Spoiler

actually it's cuz i get boner whenever i see those abs

 

[Multi-headed Cow]

Spoiler

actually it's cuz i get boner whenever i see those abs

Do we gotta rescind your title of )-o-(XxPuS5Y_HunT3R420xX)-o-( Dawkins?

 

[lukaszek]

deterministic system > RNG

 

[Multi-headed Cow]

I'll be goddamned. You can play brawl with all the cards in historic, too. Just have to pick "Friendly brawl" when you're selecting the format when making a deck, and it's apparently limited to just friend matches since they can't let people have too much fun or fondly think of escaping Oko into the welcoming arms of T5feri.

 

[Jason Liang]

Wizards should just sanction a format where players vote on their 15 favorite expansions and have that as a format (call it Rapture format or something). Pioneer is failing hard. Can a portion of a shit format (Modern) be non-shit? Maybe but the problem is anything decent Wizard has printed in the last 10 years (Ixalan, Amonkhet) is flanked by atrocious shit like Oko, Narset, 3Teferi, Kaladesh block, etc... Modern started fucked up (Mirrordin, Time Spiral), then got even more fucked up (Mirrordin Beseiged) and the past year has been destroyed by plain stoopid (WAR, Modern Horizons, Eldraine). At this point a "clean" format not fucked from the start would have to begin after Eldraine.

 

[anvi]

I wish they didn't make such broken cards. If it was incompetence it would bother me a bit, but the fact that they do it deliberately to coerce people into throwing money at the game for OP cards really makes me hate them. And it makes it un-fun to play, especially as a new player that is trying to build a collection. If I don't win regularly I don't make good gold and build a collection. So I am forced to play against endless oko decks, and previously it was endless field of the dead decks which had very few answers. And there is still the problem with Fires where I am basically faced with endless Bolas and Sarkhan after turn 4. If they toned down these sorts of cards the battles would be a lot more balanced and fun.

 

[anvi]

Making more gold now that I gave up on Standard Event. I kept winning about 3 which was 400g which was a loss. At least with unranked I win some gold and it costs me nothing. Also half the players give up on turn 1 because they screwed up their deck or they rage quit because I use a board wipe or something.

Although I'm tempted to do the same against that fucking clover deck. 2 clovers by turn 2, and then plays Reaper of Night which makes me discard 6 fucking cards :/ No fun.

 

[lukaszek]

deterministic system > RNG

 

[Multi-headed Cow]

Brawl's feeling a lot better without Oko around. Actually seeing a variety of commanders and decks again. Even though I'm being an asshole and playing a good chunk of Selesnya with Emmara and Rakdos with Judy. Does make me wish brawl wasn't on fucking Wednesday though. Been squeezing in as much MTG as I can since it's enjoyable but if they were going to limit it I wish they'd make it weekends only or something. Kinda want to craft some of the brawl commanders and try playing an Alela deck with my own cards, for example.

Alela findings: Not all that hot. She's fine, but trying to play a 4cmc commander and a pile of artifacts and enchantments and (Ideally) hold up some counters to protect your ass is awkward. Doesn't feel as strong as the slow commanders or the fast commanders, kind of a muddy gameplan.

 

[anvi]

Spent all of yesterday trying new decks, some homebrew and a bunch of netdecks. The netdecks are such a let down. There was only one that I had the cards for and it was just so weak. It had a lot of counterspells and a few single target removal cards, but I don't get how decks like that are supposed to survive against decks like the pelt collector with a bunch of creatures. I can counter a few, kill a few, but there are many more that get through. It also has no answer for PWs besides counterspells which just seems... naive? I've gone back to a homebrew now that has tons of removal and a few different possible finishers that aren't very strong, but it seems better than any of the netdecks I tried :/

 

[anvi]

How do you guys handle that blue green flash deck? It plays the big 4/4 wolf that spawns more wolves each turn. I prison realm the wolf and he bounces the prison. I board wipe and he counters it. And then I lose because the wolf is so fucking op.

 

[spectre]

anvi if you netdeck, make sure you do it from somewhere good.
https://mtgarena.pro/decks/
For example this site has the decency to track and publish winrates.

When it comes to UG flash, you got everything you need somewhere in the middle of page 67. Nothing really changed since then.

 

[anvi]

Anyone wanna help try my Gruul deck and help tweak into something competitive? I haven't played with green for years but I used the newbie gruul deck for a quest and it seems uber! So I made my own version by just throwing in any red/green rares I had and lots of Colossus which seems like the best card imo. I figured the deck would be shit like everything else I try but it won the first 4 games in a row including a cavalcade deck and an oko/beast deck.

Spoiler

Gruul is OP Deck

2 Dreadhorde Arcanist (WAR) 125
1 Once Upon a Time (ELD) 169
1 Chandra, Acolyte of Flame (M20) 126
1 Bonecrusher Giant (ELD) 115
2 Legion Warboss (GRN) 109
1 Krenko, Tin Street Kingpin (WAR) 137
1 Torbran, Thane of Red Fell (ELD) 147
1 Sarkhan the Masterless (WAR) 143
1 Domri, Chaos Bringer (RNA) 166
1 Embercleave (ELD) 120
1 Incubation Druid (RNA) 131
1 Sundering Stroke (ELD) 144
1 Drakuseth, Maw of Flames (M20) 136
4 Zhur-Taa Goblin (RNA) 215
4 Domri's Ambush (WAR) 192
4 Collision // Colossus (RNA) 223
1 Thrash // Threat (RNA) 229
1 Gruul Spellbreaker (RNA) 179
3 Rhythm of the Wild (RNA) 201
1 Ravager Wurm (RNA) 200
1 Vivien, Arkbow Ranger (M20) 199
1 God-Eternal Rhonas (WAR) 163
1 Lava Coil (GRN) 108

8 Mountain (ELD) 265
2 Stomping Ground (RNA) 259
2 Rugged Highlands (M20) 250
2 Castle Embereth (ELD) 239
1 Dwarven Mine (ELD) 243
9 Forest (ELD) 269

Sideboard
1 Drakuseth, Maw of Flames (M20) 136
1 End-Raze Forerunners (RNA) 124
1 Voracious Hydra (M20) 200

 

[anvi]

anvi if you netdeck, make sure you do it from somewhere good.
https://mtgarena.pro/decks/
For example this site has the decency to track and publish winrates.

When it comes to UG flash, you got everything you need somewhere in the middle of page 67. Nothing really changed since then.

Thanks! That site is a game changer. All the tournament winning decks I tried were pure shit.

 

[spectre]

Yeah, most tournament stuff is Bo3, and Bo3 meta is very different from Bo1 Arena meta. A lot of the shit I see need heavy tweaking to work, and even then I wouldn't really it to fly vs. mono red aggro, cat+oven, UG flash which is what I keep seeing semi-regularly
(Interestingly, I only played vs. one Oko yesterday, despite going for a full 15 wins. Magic (r)).

Take those decks with a grain of salt, 70% winrate in under 50 games does not really tell you anything, but anything close to 60% with a good enough sample size should be decent.


Now, for that Gruul... If you want to be competitive, you need to cough up the rares and mythics: Stomping Ground, Gruul Spellbreaker, all these you want close to 4x. Pelt Collector is probably the best 1 drop you can get at the moment.
Growth-Chamber Guardians are pretty much 4x or nothing. Personally, I don't play them, because they tie up your mana and it's easy to lose tempo on them, but they are pretty effective in some matchups. 4x Once Upon a Time is another 4 or nothing.
For planeswalkers, You want Domri, Anarch of Bolo (Chaos Bringer is pretty shite), you can use Rhythm of the Wild as an Ersats, but I'd be comfrotable with a 2:2 split of these cards. A second Embercleave would be helpful (third may be overkill, so I'd craft other things before that).
Questing Beast is too good not to play, so I'd aim for at least 3x (it's a legendary after all). Skarrgan Hellkite is great at the top of the curve. I only have two and they're pretty dope with Rhythm of the Wild down.

Then there's shit that is situationally great, like Nullhide Ferox, Shifting Ceratops. Nissa, who Shakes Herbouti (pretty much ends the game if she stays for a few turns.)

Now, that's a lot of shit, so it might be better to focus on what you have. For starters, I'd lose shit that has no business outside of mono red - Torbran, Sundering Stroke, Dwarven Mine. You need 4x Paradise druids in there (for mana fixing among others), so this'll help you make room.
I'd also cut down on the stuff that doesn't work without a creature - Domri's Amubush, Collission // Collossus, Thrash // Threat. Not saying lose all of it, cause they are all situationally useful, but reduce the overall count a bit.

Not sure Dreadhorde Arcanist is giving you anything here with real consistency, apart from being situationally useful. You may want a more consistent 2 drop in this spot (he does a great work in Feather and other WR contraptions where you generally have more
cheap spells).

There are basically two ways of playing with gruul, you either go aggro, which means you focus on 1-2 drops. Pelt collectors are very important and Domri is super useful here, cause you immediately get a power boost or the entire board.
Or you do mostly ramp for the first two turns, get a source of haste and start dropping all the 4+ cmc beef. For this approach, you need at least 8 ramp spells and the beef of course.

This article was quite decent:
https://www.channelfireball.com/all...he-cleave-a-guide-to-gruul-aggro-in-standard/

 

[anvi]

Thanks that's exactly what I'm finding. Had a few more games and after my creatures got nuked, I had a hand full of Collossus with nothing to use it on. I only have 2 pelt collectors but I'll try those, no questing beast :/ but I'll put some faster stuff in and see how it goes. If not, I'll have to keep searching :/ I made a new version of my Esper Control deck which is actually a really old version of it that never used to work, and it seems much better. I might go back to that.

 

[spectre]

Speaking of faster stuff, you can try Kraul Harpooners as a budget option. Can trigger Pelt Collectors two times, with riot it gets the power boost and still swings, sometimes ending the game. And you can also nab annoying shit with it. Gilded Goose and Spectral Sailor come to mind, also Chandras flying thing that goes off cavalcade.

 

[anvi]

Jeez I fucking hate losing, I have been losing so much this past 2 weeks, I don't know wtf happened. I am even losing to shitty decks and homebrews. I just got beat in a 30 minute match, he had a gates deck, had 3 gates colossus that were giving me trouble, returning every turn, and finally after all that time of holding them off, I managed to get all 3 of them exiled with my prisons. And he drew almost his entire deck, just 2 cards left in the library and I was sure I was about to win. Then he used the fucking Explosion spell on me for 19 damage :/ There was nothing I could do.

I've been looking at lots of net decks and I just lack too many rares. I am gonna have to just stick with my one deck and grind it out for months...

 

[Jason Liang]

just wait for your opponent to get mana screwed
if your opponent does not miss their 3rd land drop, concede

ps play black duress and thought erasure are gud