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Dawkinsfan69

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Whatever, get ready to see lots of fires decks. That's the problem with competitive play ban what you want there will always be copies of the same 2 or 3 decks every match
 
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Ok, twelve wildcards for me. I never saw OUaT as a problem card in Standard. Sure, it does some fixing, but any additional copies you draw always feel iffy.
For two mana, instant speed? Especially in green where mana's less of an issue due to ramp and Nissa? I can definitely see it getting the axe. That actually hits more of my decks than Oko, since I crafted playsets of that before anything else in Eldraine.

Veil getting banned is making simic flash sound better. Mighty tempted to immediately turn around and turn some of those Oko wildcards into borrowers. Depends on if people rush for fires or aggro first, since flash can have a harder time against aggro but should eat fires alive.

Edit: Oh yeah, I can stop maindecking 4 noxious grasp in every single deck that runs black now. That's nice.
 
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Dawkinsfan69

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Yeah that's annoying. Compared to hearthstone, turns take way too long in this game because people just sit on their instant speed holds and artifact triggers/ whatever the fuck on your turn. It's really frustrating and I find myself just conceding so many games when it's obvious that opponent is jerking off
 

anvi

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GAH I made a deck just 2 days ago that has 2 oko and 3 veil of summer :/ I will figure out some alternatives I guess. Not looking forward to endless fires decks, I hate those.
 

Jason Liang

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Veil breaks the color pie. It is a green counterspell. While yes, uncounterable and hexproof are allowed abilities for green *creatures*, the versatility of both together and the ability to fight blue on the stack makes the card cross into blue's domain (in the same way as Pyroblast). Green shouldn't be able to counter black removal and fight counterspell wars like this (Lifeforce being an outlier).

Once Upon a Time
is basically 4 extra copies of any great creature or land you want to see early or as a combo piece. For example in Legacy you could run 4 to get to your Argothian Enchantress or Tarmogoyf or Delver. Let alone in Vintage it is 4 extra copies of Workshop or Bazaar or Academy or Elvish Spirit Guide. It makes topend creatures and lands even better, gets a free card in your yard for delve or threshold or goyf.

And Once Upon a Time is closer to Ancestral Recall's power level than to Opt. And Veil of Summer might even get restricted in Vintage by next year.

Veil and OUaT are two green cards that enroach upon blue's design space, so from a Vintage perspective they are easy targets for banning and certainly more problematic than Oko.
 
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Fun day of playing Magic. The two major poles are fires and aggro/cats (Lumping them together even though they often differ) but it's nice that not every single deck is green. Actually played up to the 15 win daily rewards limit and had a good time fucking around. Saw one absolute madman playing an Izzet Verity Circle deck with Chadwick and Mirrormade which makes me want to craft a few more Chadwicks and borrowers and try it myself, since I've already got a playset of circle and a few mirrormades.
 
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why izzet though? all those are mono blue so you could go crazy

like make enemy hate you with discards.

hmm
I don't recall him using red much so I'm not sure what his plan was there. Possibly Niv-Mizzet because if your opponent has removal they'll be burning it on Chadwick since he can nearly hold the fort down by himself and draw you a billion cards. Maybe expansion/explosion. Maybe thousand year storm and some shocks as a finisher since you're already wanting to run cheap spells/cantrips for Chadwick. He might've had some general good red shit like lava coils and flamesweeps to try to keep himself afloat, sweep in particular since he's already strong against fewer large targets.
 

Doktor Best

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So what are your post-ban brews so far?

I'm running a red-heavy rakdos sacrifice aggro (without the ovencat combo), a modified golgari adventure midrange, Izzet double draw and some mono blue tempo so far.

I am also working on Esper dance and of course the FOTM Fire Shenanigans but i am still lacking some crucial cards.

Overall i have much more fun now because i see a new deck idea almost every other match. Atleast until the meta settles.
 

anvi

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I'm depressed as fuck with endless fail decks :/ I bought cards and had about a dozen rare and mythic wildcards to buy anything I wanted, but every deck I tried has been no better at winning than what I had to begin with :( All of the decks can hold their own in Platinum 4, but in Plat 3 they start struggling and end up back in Plat 4 again. I use this rank as my judge for how well they will do in Standard Event, I don't play that anymore because it isn't worth playing if you don't win 5+ matches most of the time. The decks I've got are:

Ilharg, Raze Boar deck
This was a huge letdown. I blew a lot of rares and mythics on this and it only wins about 50% at best. It has Arboreal Grazer and Circuitous Route to help ramp lands. It has 3 Zhur-Taa Goblin (the riot creature) and 2 Gruul Spellbreaker (also riot) which get a few hits in early and then serve as blockers. And then the finisher is to get the Raze Boar out and when it attacks, it brings out either Agent of Treachery to steal something, Ravager Worm to kill a creature, or God Eternal Rhonas to pump everything and hit their face hard. The problem is the deck is just one big sitting duck. It goes about 5 turns without having any of the big creatures. 5 turns doesn't sound long but it is when you are being rekt in the face by a Cavalcade deck or vampires with embercleave or whatever. And the blockers don't last long if the enemy has deathtouch creatures. I have 4 Flame Sweep but it isn't enough, especially against vamps that can easily get to 3 toughness. I won some, 1 cavalcade deck couldn't attack while I had the blockers out and then I got my boar and rekt his face. One was another RG deck that matched my creatures at the start like a stalemate, but then I got the boar and it attacked and pulled out Agent, stole his only big creature. When the deck works it is great, but it just is far too easy to break. 1 big creature per turn is like a sitting duck for control/counterspell decks. Rhythm of the Wild stops your creatures getting countered but if they counter the Rhythm then you are :(

Dimir Lochmere Serpent deck
4 Thought Erasure to slow them down, and you discard your own serpent. Then use the 2 mana ability of the serpent to exile 5 cards from their gy and then you can play it as a flash creature once you get some more lands. It is not good against cat type decks because you can only use the exile their GY on your turn. It also mills them with Merfolk Secretkeeper which doubles as a blocker, has some removal (murderous riders, 3 Cry of carnarium, legions end, soot) and 9 counterspells, and a jace. But it just doesn't work well. Again, against some decks it is really strong, cavalcade is fucked by it because legions end / carnarium just wipes out their entire board easily and Drown in the Loch or whatever counter is good to stop their Chandra/Cavalcade. But other aggro decks just walk all over me and I can't counter them fast enough. And control decks have free roam because I don't really have much on the board. I have counters and some removal, but if they play a lot of PWs like a fires deck, then I quickly run out of cards and end up losing the board. Disappointing. Wins maybe 55% at best.

My Dream Deck 1
This is WBU, it is awesome to play, I love it. 4 Kaya's Wrath and 2 Time Wipe means aggro decks really struggle to get you. 4 Prison Realm and 1 Murderous Rider to remove PWs, 4 Thought Erasure to help slow them down. 2 Agent of Treachery to steal their big shit later on. Then you bounce the Agent with Teferi or Time Wipe and steal other stuff. And if you lose the agents, it has 2 Clear the Mind to keep bringing it (and everything) back. I also have 1 Kenrith which can bring the agent back into play, and is awesome at life gain too, and helps draw. And 1 Fae of Wishes to bring an answer to anything from the sideboard. I love the deck but just isn't that good at winning. It can get to Plat 3 quite easily but it is such a defensive deck, it waits to answer whatever they do which can easily put you on the back foot. There are 6 board wipes for aggro decks but they all need 4/5 mana, so a fast one with Torbran/Embercleave/Cavalcade can beat me in 3 turns, or 4 if I don't draw a wipe. So that means I'm losing like 30% of the time from those guys. And then other control decks can be stronger because I have no counters, only removal which runs out fast, few agents helps but a Fires deck that plays a PW every turn is too much to handle. Wins about 55% until Plat 3 then it ends up about 45% :(

My Dream Deck 2
This is maybe the strongest deck I've got. 3 Gilded Goose to defend against aggro decks, works well, good life gain. Cry of Carnarium and Massacre Girl help kill any weenie aggroers. Deathsprout, Murderous Rider, and Assassin's Trophy against bigger creatures/PWs. Then once you get to 6 mana it has 3 Casualties of War which totally fucks some people. When you kill their only creature, planeswalker, arti/enchant, and fancy land, all with one spell, they usually just concede. And if not you still have a big upper hand. It has 2 Krasis to help draw and get some life and a few other strong cards. And again 1 Fae of Wishes to draw answers in the late game. But it has the same problem as the previous deck. It has nothing to attack with. It just defends, kills whatever they play, and then hopes to win late game by playing a PW once they are all spent, or Mass Manipulation or something. But this only works half the time. The other half the time they just keep on playing things and eventually I run out of answers. It can easily win if I get an ok draw, it has a Liliana and Lochmere Serpent and some stuff that can finish them once you wipe out all their stuff, but if they have removal too then it just ends up going 20 turns with nothing in play until someone finally gets a foot hold. Fun as hell to play but again it drops to 50% wins on about Plat 3.


Stuff I still want to try but I am getting low on wildcards now:

Weenies + Embercleave
Only saw this for the first time a few days ago and it seems promising. Fills the board with weenie white creatures and red/white, Raise the Alarm etc, and Aurelia which can pump one of them. Then they attack and embercleave pops out on one of them. It maybe only hits for 6 but the other creatures hit another 5 ish and that's good. And if you kill their creature, they just move the embercleave to another one. It also has instants to give creatures indestructible or protection from your color so they can survive. Seems weak against board wipes but I seem to be the only person who runs 4+ board wipes. So maybe it would win a lot.

Strongest Deck in Standard (imo)
I guess it is anyway. It is basically an alternative to Fires but it is much more explosive. Uses 4 Smothering Tithe, it means you either have hardly any mana on your turn, or you let him create these tokens that give him a lot of mana early. Then he uses Emergency Powers, ends up with 7 extra mana in addition to all his other mana. Plays Bolas, Teferi, Narset, etc. Uses Elderspell on his own PWs to pump the bolas and wins same turn. He basically has infinite mana so can do all this really fast and on the same turn. It has a God-Pharoah Statue to make you even more mana screwed. He ends up with so much mana and cards in hand that he can use Fae of Wishes, play the card he wished for, and then bounce the fae back to his hand, all on the same turn. Also if he has Narset out, then Emergency Powers empties your entire hand, and he ends up with 7 new cards and 7 extra mana on top of all what he already had. I think it is stronger than Fires decks, because it looks exactly the same but isn't limited to 2 spells a turn. He can do 4 or 5 big spells a turn. He also used Chance for Glory which gives him 2 turns or lose the game, but that was enough for him to play several cards while I was still tapped for mana. You guys have gotta see this deck, it is crazy. I'm wary of making it because I don't know how reliable it is.

Fires deck without the fires
I think I saw a guy play this but I thought about it myself too. Deck with 4 Bedevil, 4 Angrath's Rampage, and some Carnarium/Soot so you kill anything they play. Then you play Bolas and have back up bolas's from Fae if you need. Black and Red is so good at killing anything that gets played. Blue helps you keep drawing cards and maybe a few counters to protect the bolas once he is out. Some Agents to steal anything big late game. Fae of wishes for answers. Maybe some Kaya's Ghostform to protect Bolas. It sounds super strong to me, but maybe Fires would be better.
 

anvi

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Lol I only grind ranked because I got run out of Standard Event. I was doing well in there for a while, but now I am lucky to get 3 wins which means you lose gold. So I stopped playing it. Unranked is ok but a lot of people concede early. So now I grind ranked to check my decks for Standard Event worthiness. Also at the end of each season you get some bonus boosters so it seems worth the effort. Not sure how long the seasons are but I got reset back to the start recently so I've been grinding my way back up to make sure I get some decent boosters when it ends next. I can live with not being Mythic rank but I wanted to get to Diamond. But it is a lot harder than I thought. When I used to play MTG Online I eventually got to a point where I could win most games, but I am still getting a feel for the current game.

I have fun but losing my grip on standard event bugged me. I need to find a deck that is strong enough to get back in there. It seems like the best way of earning rares and I'm still miles off having all the ones I want.
 

Dawkinsfan69

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I think you should be proud of even getting to plat with off-meta decks. I'm not sure how viable it really is to get to diamond or mythic with non-tournament winning decks, since most people in ranked just copy the best tournament decks and those have like thousands of games recorded in all sorts of match ups proving that they're the strongest.

I read this article not long ago and thought it was pretty interesting, about how many games a player needs to play to get to mythic in ranked constructed:

https://www.channelfireball.com/all...-you-need-to-play-to-hit-mythic-in-mtg-arena/

Consider again our above average player who has 70% to win a game in Bronze, 64% in Silver, 60% in Gold, 56% in Platinum, and 52% in Diamond. . . Since you can never fall in rank, this makes for a grand total of 401 games to go from Bronze to Mythic. . .We can compare this to a seasoned pro who might have 80% to win a game in Bronze, 75% in Silver, 70% in Gold, 66% in Platinum, and 62% in Diamond. This player would require 203 games in expectation to go from Bronze to Mythic

It's pretty crazy to realize that a 'seasoned pro', who's presumably playing only the best decks and never making mistakes and always playing perfectly only has a 12% advantage over players in diamond or 20% over players in gold.

So like, even if you're a god mtg player outclassing your opponents, you'll still lose somewhere between 1/3 and 2/5 of your games due to:
  • Deck matchup
  • Card draw
  • Going second
and by the way losing 1/3 to 2/5 of games due to luck is quite a lot, not far from total 50/50 flipping a coin.

Anyway, I guess what I'm trying to say is that if your goal is to just win a lot of games in competitive modes, you should build the tried-and-true strongest deck you can find and just roll the dice with that. Remembering that, no matter how good you are, you'll lose one game in every 2.5 matches just because of bad luck. Once you're in gold, skill differential between players in constructed especially BO1 is worth about jack shit, since at that point both players are for the most part playing properly. Screwing around with off-meta junk is fun but it's gonna lose you more games than just running with a legit deck, no matter how well you play.
 
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i just scored my first staff player. I mean they are only ones with different color in nick right?
Guy was playing mono blue and banking on me making mistake that never came
Yep, orange names are Arena/WotC employees. Only time I ever played against one was in a sealed event since I had a free token at the launch of WAR, and I was manhandled because sealed is an abomination. :argh:
 

spectre

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Don't get too hanged on the Standard Event. It's main purpose is to farm uncommons, because that's what you can guarantee. The rare is a bit of a trap because it comes at five wins and you can't guarantee getting to the break even point (and honestly, nobody can with winrates at 60%).
Best you can do for the Bo1 mode is have a few decks that have different good matchups across the field and keep swapping them around until you hit the right streak of going first and good matchups.

For example, I haven't played UG Flash in a while, but when all I saw yesterday was Dance, Reclamation, Fires, RDW, it was a logical choice to dust it off... until it stopped working again when I kept running into Knight of the Ebon Legion.

Success rate in ranked doesn't translate at all to standard event (and vice versa). The meta you'll encounter might be totally different (it's usually skewed towards faster decks), but you need a top tier deck to have a chance at 5+ wins.

Also, don't play coy, you can post the decklists and we'll do our best to tell you if you fug'd something obvious. For example, that Raze Boar isn't a bad premise for a deck, though I believe you're doing something wrong along the way.
My bet is not enough ramp, if you depend on the five drops to be your game-enders, you need to start at eight ramp, and circuitious route is not the shit you're looking for. Spending your entire turn 4 to ramp up to 6 isn't a great plan if you rely on a five mana Raze Boar.
What you want instead are mana creatures, Nissa, Domri, perhaps Beanstalk Giants if you don't have anything else. And even if the raze boar plan proves to be shit, the core idea should still be salvageable - if you have the duals, gruul spellbreakers and other staples. You only swap them out to other five-mana finishers - Hellkite, Nissa, tuck on an Embercleave for added punch. If you don't have the green/red staples (bonecrusher giant, questing beast, nissa, spellbreaker, etc.), well, there's you answer to why it isn't winning shit. You can plug a few holes with budget cards and keep some of the cards at 3x, but there's no going around spending them wildcards.
 
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git gud. clearly im the boss he now
Oh yeah? Well today's Wednesday, and you know what that means.

Commander
1 The Royal Scions (ELD) 199

Deck
7 Seven Dwarves (ELD) 141
9 Island (ANA) 62
1 Torbran, Thane of Red Fell (ELD) 147
1 Quasiduplicate (GRN) 51
10 Mountain (ANA) 64
1 Mirror March (RNA) 108
1 Ionize (GRN) 179
1 Steam Vents (GRN) 257
1 Swiftwater Cliffs (M20) 252
1 Temple of Epiphany (M20) 253
1 Ral's Outburst (WAR) 212
1 Ral, Izzet Viceroy (GRN) GR5
1 Disdainful Stroke (GRN) 37
1 Essence Capture (RNA) 37
1 Castle Vantress (ELD) 242
1 Negate (M20) 69
1 Quench (RNA) 48
1 Tale's End (M20) 77
1 Sinister Sabotage (GRN) 54
1 Opt (ELD) 59
1 Chemister's Insight (GRN) 32
1 Drawn from Dreams (M20) 56
1 Cavalier of Gales (M20) 52
1 Gadwick, the Wizened (ELD) 48
1 Shock (M20) 160
1 Lava Coil (GRN) 108
1 Bonecrusher Giant (ELD) 115
1 Legion Warboss (GRN) 109
1 Chandra, Awakened Inferno (M20) 127
1 Embercleave (ELD) 120
1 Command Tower (ELD) 333
1 Arcane Signet (ELD) 331
1 Ugin, the Ineffable (WAR) 2
1 Frogify (ELD) 47
1 Kasmina's Transmutation (WAR) 57
1 Didn't Say Please (ELD) 42


MANLETS ON THE PROWL
 

anvi

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I came up against a lot of Dance of the Manse decks yesterday too. That is what I was playing last month that went shitty. Although I only had 2 manse and it seems better with people who have 3 because he could use one mid game with not enough mana to make them into creatures, but it was enough to bring all his Doom Foretold back which is a great mid game boost. I might consider bringing my version back and adding one more manse. But I never liked the deck that much because the netdeck version sucked against aggro. I had to add a bunch of early stuff which made the late game weaker.

I won a bunch with the boar deck yesterday because I added a card draw which really helped. But I think I will give up on it because I only have 1 Domri and I don't wanna waste more wildcards on him for that deck. I think I'll just focus on my other few decks which seem to hold their own in platinum and then I should try to find a net deck I can make. I could make one of these two but I gotta be brave and blow my last wildcards:

https://mtgarena.pro/decks/azorius-manipulation-aaa4e
https://mtgarena.pro/decks/jeskai-fires-4326b
 
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spectre

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Platinum grinding is a chore, personally I wouldn't bother with it. I tried to rank up today, just to get the feel what's what, went up to Platinum 2, then went on a streak that brought me back down to Platinum 3 and I decided to call it a day.
And I was cycling four decks I consider "good" - Dance, Gruul, Fires, Flash. It pretty much boiled down if I met a favorable matchup and wasn't mana screwed. 1 game I lost to a genuine misplay.
In my opinion, it's a crapshoot, so you should either wait for the meta to settle (I've seen all kinds of shit, from mono blue mill and Niv Mizzet 5 color control, flash variants substituting green for red and typical tier 1 stuff).
or, if you really want to rank up without feeling that you're wasting your time, I'd go for ranked Bo3. Even then, there's really no point if you want epenis points for reaching mythic, because you're basically struggling to get an extra booster pack,
a 1k worth of shekels. That time would be better spent getting to gold in limited, or just biding your time, play to 5 wins and convert geld to packs.
Perhaps I would have more success cat baking, or with a GRU adventures deck, but I'm not sure if it's worth it anymore without Oko and OUaT.

Not sure if it helps you in any way, but if you're spinning your wheels: start with a deck that you like. That WUB control you have I think is a good starting point.
Note what decks beat you consistently, then build one of those decks. Ignore one hit wonders (I think the emergency powers thing is one of those, same goes for the 5 color Mizzet Reborn Jank).
Repeat until you have a set of decks that work in a rock-paper-scissors pattern so you can juggle them as the meta changes. Not everything will be good vs. everything.

I've seen that UW control in the ladder, it's good vs. fires if it can counter teferi and enter "counter fucking everything" mode. I have my doubts if it can stand vs. cavalcade with only 4 boardwipes at 5 mana, but
you can correct that by swapping a few cards. If anything, those absorbs are a must to keep you alive, so be ready to cough up them wildcards.

The fires build looks standard in the mainboard, I run two more point removal in exchange for Ugin and one Sarkhan and one more white castle. There's some weird shit in the wishboard, but that's a matter of preference.
I don't have too much faith in Ass Manipulation without ramp, Captive Audience may be better in practive, but I'm not a big fan of this card. As anti-control tech, I'd much rather have thought distortion.
I also think it's very important to have one Time Wipe in the wishboard, because it lets you with for it on turn 4, then play it next turn even without Fires.
 

anvi

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Yeah the game reminds me a lot of rock/paper/scissors :P Thanks for the tips, I love my WUB deck, I'll probably keep tweaking that and maybe try the Azorious Manip sometime. Barely feel like playing today, got sad news about a game dev I loved.
 

anvi

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Just got to Plat 2 and then lost a few and came back down :P Feels good though, and I'm feeling more proud since Dawkins said I should :) And yeah bad luck is unavoidable I guess. I was surprised by people still making a lot of mistakes even in Plat 2. Like the guy I just beat had Castle Ardenvale and kept forgetting to use it, he would have won if he did because I was low health all game, those nibblers would have finished me. He also had a huge play available to him which he didn't do... I couldn't believe it. It was like a stalemate with not much in play, he used Prison on my Liliana and he had a Teferi in play, I had nothing. He had Mass Manip in his hand which I could see. All he needed to do was Teferi his prison to give me my Liliana back and then use his Mass Manip on it to steal it. He could have easily won but never did it.

The previous game was interesting because I tried a card out and stumbled into a useful combo. I played Dreadhorde Invasion, put a little 1/1 dude out. Then I played Vivien and pumped the little guy and after a couple of turns he was huge and gets life tap once he is above 6/6 which was easy with Vivien pumping him. I also had the spark duplicate thing which made 2 Viviens so I managed to pump the little dreadhorde guy up to about 20/20 in no time. I was down to about 2 health and the dreadhorde lifetapper got me 20 life in one attack. I like that card, it is a huge cockblock to some decks.

Love this game, hope they fix up the stuttering eventually, also wish I could put decks in folders. All the beginner decks get in the way. p.s. I just made a deck specifically for Standard Event, I think it might win a lot. I'll try it out and share it if it works.
 

lobsterfrogman

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If you are looking for a deck to grind Jeskai Fires is a solid choice, unless new meta turns out to be filled with UW control or Simic Flash (it struggles vs counterspells). The build you posted is kinda outdated though - nowadays Fires decks don't pack the planeswalkers package opting to run Cavaliers and Returned King instead. They play more like a combo one turn kill deck now. Here, have a sample list:

https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/2510389#paper
 

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