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Master of Magic remake from Thea developers and Slitherine

Axioms

Arcane
Developer
Joined
Jul 11, 2019
Messages
1,630
but that doesn't change the fact that many 4x games have come after, including sequels to the game that inspired MoM in the first place which have all iterated on concepts first seen in MoM but much better.
Fuck off.
No u
Joined in November, has 41 messages, claims CiV is the best one. Are you even trying to be subtle about trolling? Consider going to post on some trashy resetera shithole with these takes.
 

Hagashager

Educated
Joined
Nov 24, 2022
Messages
633
but that doesn't change the fact that many 4x games have come after, including sequels to the game that inspired MoM in the first place which have all iterated on concepts first seen in MoM but much better.
Fuck off.
No u
Joined in November, has 41 messages, claims CiV is the best one. Are you even trying to be subtle about trolling? Consider going to post on some trashy resetera shithole with these takes.
Alright well now you're just being a whiny ass. No I'm not trolling. I legitimately don't get the hate for Civ or the sanctity of Master of Magic.

Is it really that personal? Sorry, I love MoM too, it means a lot to me too. It'd be nice if a good MoM remake got made, or a good spiritual successor came along- guess we gotta wait.
 

Axioms

Arcane
Developer
Joined
Jul 11, 2019
Messages
1,630
but that doesn't change the fact that many 4x games have come after, including sequels to the game that inspired MoM in the first place which have all iterated on concepts first seen in MoM but much better.
Fuck off.
No u
Joined in November, has 41 messages, claims CiV is the best one. Are you even trying to be subtle about trolling? Consider going to post on some trashy resetera shithole with these takes.
Alright well now you're just being a whiny ass. No I'm not trolling. I legitimately don't get the hate for Civ or the sanctity of Master of Magic.

Is it really that personal? Sorry, I love MoM too, it means a lot to me too. It'd be nice if a good MoM remake got made, or a good spiritual successor came along- guess we gotta wait.
I don't care about MoM much actually. It was cool but I didn't play it early enough I guess. CiV is just the worst civ is all. Civ 3 and later 4 were both improvements on what came before in lots of ways CiV was decline. Heavy decline even.
 

Hagashager

Educated
Joined
Nov 24, 2022
Messages
633
Fair enough. I personally really enjoyed Civ V more than any other entry, *especially* against Civ VI.

Most folks I know in real life regard Civ V as the peak with a handful regarding Civ IV as the peak. I'd never met anyone either in-person or online who vehemently hated Civ V.

In any event, someday we'll get a good MoM successor.
 

Axioms

Arcane
Developer
Joined
Jul 11, 2019
Messages
1,630
Fair enough. I personally really enjoyed Civ V more than any other entry, *especially* against Civ VI.

Most folks I know in real life regard Civ V as the peak with a handful regarding Civ IV as the peak. I'd never met anyone either in-person or online who vehemently hated Civ V.

In any event, someday we'll get a good MoM successor.
Well you expect 6 and then 5 to get the most votes in an open poll because most people have only played 6 or maybe 5. Just because of the market growth. If you look at polls of veteran civ players it goes something like 4/2/3/5/6/1. 4 is far and away the best. I actually moderately prefer 3 over 4 and definitely over 2, but that's a rare opinion. The graphics in 4 mostly put me off, rather than gameplay.
 

HeroMarine

Irenaeus
Vatnik
Joined
Feb 3, 2019
Messages
16,306
Location
Rio de Janeiro, 1936
:nocountryforshitposters:

V5CbaQW.png


By far the best version, 2 is awesome and 4 is great, but the original is fantastic. 5 and 6 shouldn't even be on your list unless you're some kind of zoomer who never used Windows 3.11
 

Blake00

Learned
Joined
Oct 1, 2020
Messages
292
Location
Australia
It's funny how in a number of the negative comments and reviews I'm seeing around the sites people are complaining about it looking and feeling too much like MoM in a cheap old Civ5 like engine.. then I come here and there's a dude passionately complaining that they should have slapped MoM in the old Civ5 engine.

As for Civ, I love using mods, plus I was there at the start and am blinded by nostalgia lol so...

With mods: 2/4/3/1/5/6
Without mods: 2/1/4/3/5/6
.
 

Norfleet

Moderator
Joined
Jun 3, 2005
Messages
12,250
It's funny how in a number of the negative comments and reviews I'm seeing around the sites people are complaining about it looking and feeling too much like MoM in a cheap old Civ5 like engine..
Isn't that exactly what a MoM successor SHOULD be, though?
 

Zboj Lamignat

Arcane
Joined
Feb 15, 2012
Messages
5,757
Forum threads have multiple pages, you know.

I bought it. Don't really think it's worth the price, though. Even if it was a faithful and good remake it'd still be overpriced imo. The graphics aren't good enough to warrant such a hefty new price tag as the game is graphically uglier than, say, Warlock Master of the Arcane, a 10 year old game. The game also sports lots of memory leaks which means if you play the game longer for an hour it's going to start chugging pretty bad. The settings are also pitiful and offer nothing useful to tweak, really. Even the setting screen for the key binds is just a sheet for the hotkeys but you can't actually change them.

The second big thing that could've changed is the AI, but honestly it's not any better. Check a look at the pics below of how densely the AI is settling cities. Each game is going to be a Sisyphusean task of cleaning up the AI to win. Did anyone at MuHa games test this and think this is fine? It's not just that they settle so densely but it takes a long time to wait for the enemy AI to complete its turn, most of it is spent repeating the same movement paths back and forth as it can't seem to decide what to do.



What else.. the AI hates roads and engineers. The AI will spend all of its energy running after engineers that have been set to dig roads. This can be abused to stall armies pretty much indefinitely.

The auto resolve is also extremely weird. I've lost half my army of Ultra Elite flyer units against a single enemy veteran spearman. Not joking, not bullshitting, not hyperboling. There's an option to toggle on if the AI is allowed to cast spells or not during auto resolve, and I've seen situations where the projected outcome for me is worse with magic casting on. Just.. how?
 

Gregz

Arcane
Joined
Jul 31, 2011
Messages
8,944
Location
The Desert Wasteland
Forum threads have multiple pages, you know.

I bought it. Don't really think it's worth the price, though. Even if it was a faithful and good remake it'd still be overpriced imo. The graphics aren't good enough to warrant such a hefty new price tag as the game is graphically uglier than, say, Warlock Master of the Arcane, a 10 year old game. The game also sports lots of memory leaks which means if you play the game longer for an hour it's going to start chugging pretty bad. The settings are also pitiful and offer nothing useful to tweak, really. Even the setting screen for the key binds is just a sheet for the hotkeys but you can't actually change them.

The second big thing that could've changed is the AI, but honestly it's not any better. Check a look at the pics below of how densely the AI is settling cities. Each game is going to be a Sisyphusean task of cleaning up the AI to win. Did anyone at MuHa games test this and think this is fine? It's not just that they settle so densely but it takes a long time to wait for the enemy AI to complete its turn, most of it is spent repeating the same movement paths back and forth as it can't seem to decide what to do.



What else.. the AI hates roads and engineers. The AI will spend all of its energy running after engineers that have been set to dig roads. This can be abused to stall armies pretty much indefinitely.

The auto resolve is also extremely weird. I've lost half my army of Ultra Elite flyer units against a single enemy veteran spearman. Not joking, not bullshitting, not hyperboling. There's an option to toggle on if the AI is allowed to cast spells or not during auto resolve, and I've seen situations where the projected outcome for me is worse with magic casting on. Just.. how?

Thanks for this!

Looks like Caster of Magic is still the definitive version to play then.
 

Norfleet

Moderator
Joined
Jun 3, 2005
Messages
12,250
Dominions is a good MoM successor.
It would be if Dominions had direct control in battles.
Honestly, I'm okay with this, since it makes multiplayer even possible in such games. Trying to have multiplayer in a game where everyone has to be there at the same time strongly limits the number of players you can have, as there's an exponentially-increasing difficulty of getting everyone on at the same time, while Dominions-style play makes it possible to have a game move at a reasonable clip even if people are just totally random. And the combat system is thus tuned to make this work, whereas having both such systems would mean that one is clearly worse than the other and playing it that way is crippling the full game experience.
 

Norfleet

Moderator
Joined
Jun 3, 2005
Messages
12,250
The auto resolve is also extremely weird. I've lost half my army of Ultra Elite flyer units against a single enemy veteran spearman. Not joking, not bullshitting, not hyperboling. There's an option to toggle on if the AI is allowed to cast spells or not during auto resolve, and I've seen situations where the projected outcome for me is worse with magic casting on. Just.. how?
Autoresolve in most games is often terrible. I mean, you'd think with all the machine learning we have now, it would be possible to simply put an AI into the game that would actually learn how to autoresolve battles through the process of learning. I'd make it so the autoresolve will use its current knowledge to predict the result of the battle, and give you the outcome: You can either accept the outcome, or fight the battle yourself, at which point the battle you fought becomes part of the training set and is used to train the autoresolve to more accurately predict the outcomes, until eventually you consider the autoresolve a sufficiently accurate prediction of what will happen.
 

Hobo Elf

Arcane
Joined
Feb 17, 2009
Messages
14,147
Location
Platypus Planet
The auto resolve is also extremely weird. I've lost half my army of Ultra Elite flyer units against a single enemy veteran spearman. Not joking, not bullshitting, not hyperboling. There's an option to toggle on if the AI is allowed to cast spells or not during auto resolve, and I've seen situations where the projected outcome for me is worse with magic casting on. Just.. how?
Autoresolve in most games is often terrible. I mean, you'd think with all the machine learning we have now, it would be possible to simply put an AI into the game that would actually learn how to autoresolve battles through the process of learning. I'd make it so the autoresolve will use its current knowledge to predict the result of the battle, and give you the outcome: You can either accept the outcome, or fight the battle yourself, at which point the battle you fought becomes part of the training set and is used to train the autoresolve to more accurately predict the outcomes, until eventually you consider the autoresolve a sufficiently accurate prediction of what will happen.
Nothing you said is wrong, but there is something extra wrong with it in this game. My max rank Torin with physical immunity nearly dies (3 HP left) versus a single veteran Spearman unit. But if I take reins of the combat and put it on auto AI he clearly just stomps the Spearman with no problem. And this has happened to me many times. The auto resolve doesn't seem to take damage resistances or immunities into consideration when it does the damage calculations. And even then Torin at max rank with artifact equipment should be vastly superior to a lowly veteran spearman.
 

Norfleet

Moderator
Joined
Jun 3, 2005
Messages
12,250
The autoresolve in most games is utterly derp as it doesn't take ANYTHING into account in most cases. Since actually simulating a battle would, itself, also likely result in derp anyway, not to mention being way slower, this isn't really the answer either.

So obviously, what we need is to use machine learning so that the AI can intuit the outcomes that should happen. As a side benefit, it will also improve both turn times and the ability of the AI to play against itself, since ability to accurately predict the outcome of its actions is sort of important for the ability to know what to do in the first place.
 

Sarissofoi

Arbiter
Joined
Mar 24, 2017
Messages
762
You can say that game is bad if people start argue about quality of its direct competitor and not even bother complain about game itself.
And its bad. Like really bad. Both as remaster, remake or on its own.
Technically it have giga memory leak that make it hard to play any longer time.
It looks like crap, ugly and with crappy UI and terrible styles. It lack options - like why I can only put 4 enemy wizards as opponents? Why no ability to choose type of landscape for map generation? . Its buggy, battle simulation is just out of the place. And did I mention that it looks like crap? because it looks like crap and UI is 10x worse than original.
Like what the hell they were thinking?
 

Axioms

Arcane
Developer
Joined
Jul 11, 2019
Messages
1,630
You can say that game is bad if people start argue about quality of its direct competitor and not even bother complain about game itself.
And its bad. Like really bad. Both as remaster, remake or on its own.
Technically it have giga memory leak that make it hard to play any longer time.
It looks like crap, ugly and with crappy UI and terrible styles. It lack options - like why I can only put 4 enemy wizards as opponents? Why no ability to choose type of landscape for map generation? . Its buggy, battle simulation is just out of the place. And did I mention that it looks like crap? because it looks like crap and UI is 10x worse than original.
Like what the hell they were thinking?
Muha is famous for bad UI, but in their previous games it didn't matter as much cause they weren't full on 4X games. Only 4 enemies is from the original no? Also isn't it made in Unity? How do they even have memory leaks?
 

coldcrow

Prophet
Patron
Joined
Mar 6, 2009
Messages
1,717
Didn't read the thread. Impression after 2 minutes: WTF is this UI and art "direction". Not going to play this shit.
 

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