Putting the 'role' back in role-playing games since 2002.
Donate to Codex
Good Old Games
  • Welcome to rpgcodex.net, a site dedicated to discussing computer based role-playing games in a free and open fashion. We're less strict than other forums, but please refer to the rules.

    "This message is awaiting moderator approval": All new users must pass through our moderation queue before they will be able to post normally. Until your account has "passed" your posts will only be visible to yourself (and moderators) until they are approved. Give us a week to get around to approving / deleting / ignoring your mundane opinion on crap before hassling us about it. Once you have passed the moderation period (think of it as a test), you will be able to post normally, just like all the other retards.

Interview Matt Chat 297: Brian Fargo on Bard's Tale IV

HiddenX

The Elder Spy
Patron
Joined
May 20, 2006
Messages
1,655
Location
Germany
Divinity: Original Sin Shadorwun: Hong Kong
He looked caught on the spot with the MCA question :M

The moment of truth:

zGI8qhm.jpg
 

M0RBUS

Augur
Joined
Feb 5, 2007
Messages
206
While I hope MCA is gonna join inXile, I think it's reading too much into Fargo's if we're gonna draw conclusions from it...
I mean...

Right?
 

Themadcow

Augur
Joined
Feb 17, 2012
Messages
308
Err, so people don't enjoy the limited save risk/reward element of Blobbers then Matt? Better fuck off and grow some balls methinks. As a guy with VERY limited gaming time on a weekly basis I'm more than happy with the idea of losing progress due to making a bad decision (return to the guild, or press on with a battle worn party?) and it was kinda nice to see Brian also seemingly coming down on the side of challenge rather than hand holding post-Baldur's Gate gamer faggotry.
 

Lady_Error

█▓▒░ ░▒▓█
Patron
Joined
Oct 14, 2012
Messages
1,879,250
Just Finished: Wizardry 6, Wizardry 7, Might & Magic X

All of these blobbers have normal save games. Going back to a guild to save a game is a completely antiquated way of playing and should only be included as an option for masochists.
 

Themadcow

Augur
Joined
Feb 17, 2012
Messages
308
Just Finished: Wizardry 6, Wizardry 7, Might & Magic X

All of these blobbers have normal save games. Going back to a guild to save a game is a completely antiquated way of playing and should only be included as an option for masochists.

The most popular recent 'Blobber' series was probably Etrian Odyssey in which you could only save at the town but could do a suspend save in the dungeon - a concept I'd fully support for BT4. Save anywhere promotes save scumming which invalidates risk, and mutes excitement.

Wizardry is a tricky example because you had more of a linear progression and therefore the idea of a centralised save game location would make no sense.
 

Lady_Error

█▓▒░ ░▒▓█
Patron
Joined
Oct 14, 2012
Messages
1,879,250
Wizardry is a tricky example because you had more of a linear progression and therefore the idea of a centralised save game location would make no sense.

Wizardry 7 and 8 had the opposite of a linear progression actually, and even Wizardry 6 was not that linear.
 

Themadcow

Augur
Joined
Feb 17, 2012
Messages
308
Wizardry 6 was not that linear.

Apart from the starting castle area Wiz 6 was highly linear. Castle > Mountains > Mines > Pyramid > Isle of the Damned > Swamp etc. Most of the retreading was done in the first third of the game.

Wiz 7 allowed you the freedom to explore in a less linear fashion but again, eventually you ended up on a more defined path due to the difficulty of monsters in some areas. Wiz 7 was probably a good example of a game that gave an open world vibe though. As for Wiz 8, I really need to give it another go as I didn't get into it as much.

Just because the Wiz series gave more freedom to save (even if you had to fudge a multiple save system) I wouldn't want it in a Bards Tale game. Suspend anywhere, sure - but if you die after an hour exploring a dungeon because you've bitten off more than you can chew then reloading is frankly pathetic. Blobbers are about expeditions into the unknown, and part of being a skilled adventurer is knowing when it's time to get the hell out of Dodge.
 

Lady_Error

█▓▒░ ░▒▓█
Patron
Joined
Oct 14, 2012
Messages
1,879,250
Suspend anywhere, sure - but if you die after an hour exploring a dungeon because you've bitten off more than you can chew then reloading is frankly pathetic. Blobbers are about expeditions into the unknown, and part of being a skilled adventurer is knowing when it's time to get the hell out of Dodge.

All of my favorite blobbers allow saving anywhere and they are better games for it. I cannot stand that "walking back to some place just to save" BS.
 

Infinitron

I post news
Staff Member
Joined
Jan 28, 2011
Messages
96,935
Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
There are alternatives other than "save anywhere" and "save points". For example, having to unlock the ability to save anywhere for each area by reaching some kind of checkpoint.

This could be supplemented with consumable save items that allow you to save in a new area even if you haven't reached it yet.
 

J_C

One Bit Studio
Patron
Developer
Joined
Dec 28, 2010
Messages
16,946
Location
Pannonia
Project: Eternity Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. Pathfinder: Wrath
Wizardry 6 was not that linear.

Apart from the starting castle area Wiz 6 was highly linear. Castle > Mountains > Mines > Pyramid > Isle of the Damned > Swamp etc. Most of the retreading was done in the first third of the game.

Wiz 7 allowed you the freedom to explore in a less linear fashion but again, eventually you ended up on a more defined path due to the difficulty of monsters in some areas. Wiz 7 was probably a good example of a game that gave an open world vibe though. As for Wiz 8, I really need to give it another go as I didn't get into it as much.

Just because the Wiz series gave more freedom to save (even if you had to fudge a multiple save system) I wouldn't want it in a Bards Tale game. Suspend anywhere, sure - but if you die after an hour exploring a dungeon because you've bitten off more than you can chew then reloading is frankly pathetic. Blobbers are about expeditions into the unknown, and part of being a skilled adventurer is knowing when it's time to get the hell out of Dodge.
LOL what the fuck? Fuck this "you are a skilled adventurer" bullshit, and your IMMERSUN bullshit too. I'm a guy playing a fucking videogame, so I want to save whenever I want. I want to stop playing whenever I want, and if I die for whatever bullshit reason, I don't want to restart the game from an hour ago.

Blobbers are about expeditions into the unknown
Roffles, you can say that about every game which has exploration, that doesn't mean that you should only be able to save at certain points.
 

Themadcow

Augur
Joined
Feb 17, 2012
Messages
308
LOL what the fuck? Fuck this "you are a skilled adventurer" bullshit, and your IMMERSUN bullshit too. I'm a guy playing a fucking videogame, so I want to save whenever I want. I want to stop playing whenever I want, and if I die for whatever bullshit reason, I don't want to restart the game from an hour ago.

It's not about immersion (although thats a bonus) - it's about risk and reward. Can I get any adrenaline going when I'm safe in the knowledge that the worst thing that can happen is that I die / quit and reload ad-infinitum? Nope.

That's not so bad for story driven games I suppose, but for an old school blobber I can't think of anything worse than a reloadable save-anytime system. Save anywhere also leads to consumable hoarding because you're rarely in a situation where you feel that you need to use a consumable just incase you die... because there's no penalty to dying.

Suspend in dungeon, save at Guilds/Inn's gives you a decent balance. All the convenience of being able to stop when you want, while not making the game overly easy. Save anywhere also makes random encounters almost entirely pointless because it always comes down to the boss fights which are artificially made more complex / difficult because they're balanced around the fact that you can reload and attempt them again, and again, and again. Add in the prevalence of online game guides and FAQ's to the mix and you've got even more artificial bullshit to accomodate.
 

J_C

One Bit Studio
Patron
Developer
Joined
Dec 28, 2010
Messages
16,946
Location
Pannonia
Project: Eternity Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. Pathfinder: Wrath
LOL what the fuck? Fuck this "you are a skilled adventurer" bullshit, and your IMMERSUN bullshit too. I'm a guy playing a fucking videogame, so I want to save whenever I want. I want to stop playing whenever I want, and if I die for whatever bullshit reason, I don't want to restart the game from an hour ago.

It's not about immersion (although thats a bonus) - it's about risk and reward. Can I get any adrenaline going when I'm safe in the knowledge that the worst thing that can happen is that I die / quit and reload ad-infinitum? Nope.
There is not such thing as adrenaline rush in a turn based blobber as far as I'm concerned. There is just tactics and patience.

If there is a difficult battle ahead of me, I will feel rewarded even if I have to reload 10 times to beat it. With being able to reload, I can try different tactics after each defeat. Without being able to save and reload, I have to redo huge chuncks of gameplay, or avoid the battle completely until I pump up my party.
 

Themadcow

Augur
Joined
Feb 17, 2012
Messages
308
There is not such thing as adrenaline rush in a turn based blobber as far as I'm concerned. There is just tactics and patience.

That's sad, I almost feel sorry for you. Why not ask Brian to make an RPG with one room dungeons containing a boss fight and nothing else? Maybe even a mid-fight save just in case?

Blobbers should be as much about surviving the trip down to the bottom of the dungeon as they are about the scripted encounters.
 

J_C

One Bit Studio
Patron
Developer
Joined
Dec 28, 2010
Messages
16,946
Location
Pannonia
Project: Eternity Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. Pathfinder: Wrath
There is not such thing as adrenaline rush in a turn based blobber as far as I'm concerned. There is just tactics and patience.

That's sad, I almost feel sorry for you.
Don't be. I don't need adrenaline rush in my RPGs, I'm much more happy with tactical, thoughtful RPGs.
Maybe even a mid-fight save just in case?
Obviously saving in combat is a no no, as it should be in every RPG.
 

Lord Azlan

Arcane
Patron
Shitposter
Joined
Jun 4, 2014
Messages
1,901
Thanks to the OP - interesting interview. Find it strange that this guy came up with BT1 - from his interview I can understand how he came up with BT The Comedy

Seems slightly dissapointed with funding so far.
Wishes he invented Kickstarter
Promoted game The Room -
Joked about Bards Tale (2002) but seems happy with the game - played with the cards he got dealt
Question - does humour work in RPG?
Not having to wait for the turn based combat animations to end
Combat to be quick - but also strategic - "use your brain"
Lots of loot - people like selling things in shops!
I like what he said about saving your game or how the difficulty level is chosen = if you choose to only save in the Adventurers Guild maybe you get more XP
 

As an Amazon Associate, rpgcodex.net earns from qualifying purchases.
Back
Top Bottom